Magic and security systems?

[Silverfoxdmt73]

 

So, we all know that using magic damages or destroys computer chips, but what effect would it have on things like CCTV systems?

I've got an idea for a Case File, but I'm not 100% sure how the use of magic would affect something like a CCTV camera and the recording system where the footage would be stored.

If the camera (assuming it's a modern, digital camera system) is right next to where a magic spell is cast then I'm confident the camera would be destroyed, but if the hard-drive is located at the other end of the building, some 10+ meters away, would that be destroyed too? Or would the footage be recoverable?

Would older 'video' cameras with tape as opposed to digital recording equipment be okay? Or would they be wiped out too?

 

[Lynne H]

If the camera doesn't have a silicon chip, it should be fine (but that would probably mean a video cassette in the camera or a cable to a video recorder nearby). If it has a silicon chip and there's power to it, the camera will be toast. 

As to the computer hard-drive, have at look at page 177 in the rulebook to see whether or not it would survive.

 

[Silverfoxdmt73]

17 minutes ago, Lynne H said:

If the camera doesn't have a silicon chip, it should be fine (but that would probably mean a video cassette in the camera or a cable to a video recorder nearby). If it has a silicon chip and there's power to it, the camera will be toast. 

As to the computer hard-drive, have at look at page 177 in the rulebook to see whether or not it would survive.

 

Thanks Lynne. I'm thinking then that and old fashioned camcorder, or a really old CCTV camera would be okay, but modern ones would be fried. 

[g33k]

I'm pretty sure even the oldest CCTV cameras have circuit boards with chips in them, to process the image before storing it on any media (including tape).  What's more, all of these imaging devices use a chip as an image-sensor...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor#History

Hypothetically, someone who was savvy to the vagaries of magic (and VERY wealthy) could implement a vacuum-tube based video camera, with no chips (it wouldn't be a little device, however... we are talking "camera the size of a building" ).

AFAIK there are only a few places in the world making vacuum tubes (mostly China & Russia); the principles are known, but AFAIK the tech-base would need to be re-built from scratch.  Plus:  engineering a camera image-sensor from vacuum tubes would be a huge, huge challenge:  The smallest vacuum tube measures a centimeter or so long.  But the earliest digital camera sensor would have fit over a quarter-million transistors into a 1/3" rectangle.
And vacuum tubes use lots of energy, and tend to run hot, so you'd need to add (a lot of) cooling.  the practical constraints are dauntng (and may even be physically/technologically impossible).

If it worked, it'd be something like a wierd mix of a James-Bond style "Q" (or a Bond mega-villain) with steam-punk-y retro-future alt-tech.

If someone wanted to, they could even use film, and mechanical cameras.  Live-monitoring & easy archive-searching wouldn't be a thing, however!  Even if you hid a darkroom wet-lab behind the wall & fed the exposed film directly from the camera to the lab (and thence to a quick-dry setup)... it'd be a minimum of 30ish minutes before you could begin reviewing whatever your camera had captured.
 

Edited December 5, 2023 by g33k
more on vacuum tube sensors

[Dangermouse]

I had a scenario idea involving CCTV and thought that due to the spells being thrown about the CCTV cameras will be toast but the recordings are probably in the cloud or are further away in a secure room so would be out of range of the sanding effect.  It would also depend on whether the recording is to a Solid State hard drive or goes to a normal harddrive or video tape - the latter two could be recoverable)

[Silverfoxdmt73]

Kind of related, how would you rule the effects of the spell Vultus Occulto, when viewed on CCTV or similar media? 

Does the magic work only for 10 minutes regardless of how the caster is viewed or would the effect continue once their image is captured 'on film'? Or, would it only work if being observed directly? 

[Charles]

On 5/4/2023 at 9:56 PM, Silverfoxdmt73 said:

So, we all know that using magic damages or destroys computer chips, but what effect would it have on things like CCTV systems?

This question is addressed in the first book.  Peter blows up both the CCTV and the tape recorders during an interview (I'm certain of the tape recorder, less so about the CCTV). Regarding remote components (where the camera is nearby but the recording system is far away), you could argue either way. You could blow the remote components because of an electrical surge, OR say that anything outside the spell radius is unaffected OR, if feeling techy, say there is an optical fibre link so the remote recording system is protected).

Decide on your story needs and then go with that.

[Skymir]

Hi CCTV has come up in the books a few times. The factor seams to be range and power, for instance Peter was engaged in a magical battle with Varvara CCTV in the immediate is toast but cameras further afield in this case about 2 hundred yards continued to function. Any CCTV recorded before the start of magic use is still accessible as long as the storage is out of range. As to which medium is best for storage after a falcon event. Tape could be eaten because of damage to the recorder but is recoverable, the same with hard disks the actual control modal would be fried but the platters would be fine again recoverable by professionals. Solid state storage is again toast. Again this all relies on strength and range a canny practitioner could kill any local CCTV before engaging in nefarious activities.

[Dangermouse]

I guess that a lot more these days CCTV is stored in the cloud - so plenty of reason for the evidence to be available up until the point the magic happens and the camera itself is sanded (if you want it to be).  

[g33k]

3 hours ago, Dangermouse said:

I guess that a lot more these days CCTV is stored in the cloud - so plenty of reason for the evidence to be available up until the point the magic happens and the camera itself is sanded (if you want it to be).  

One could (taking the criminal POV) first mundanely-scout for cameras, then
pre-emptively take them out with magic (before committing any crime).

[Darius West]

On 5/5/2023 at 12:44 AM, Lynne H said:

If the camera doesn't have a silicon chip, it should be fine

Except that every camera used with CCTV has a chip in it these days, unless the system is a total antique.  I would imagine that in a world where certain people are in the know about magic, the primitive old systems may well stay in service for exactly these emergencies, fossils or not.

[g33k]

On 5/4/2023 at 7:44 AM, Lynne H said:

If the camera doesn't have a silicon chip, it should be fine (but that would probably mean a video cassette in the camera or a cable to a video recorder nearby). If it has a silicon chip and there's power to it, the camera will be toast. 

Videotape/videocassette is still digital tech, with chips.
You need to go back to film (the stuff that needs to be developed in wet-chem baths) to avoid chips.

Edited December 5, 2023 by g33k

[Joerg]

If you are a practitioner, you might use chips in sacrificial and/or necromantic ways, like in one of Ben Aaronovich's recent offerings in the novels.