Who was Sawtooth Korvan? A Meat-eating Renegade Aldryami – but why?

[RicKaySi]

First ever BRP post!

Full disclosure I’m publishing have published a write up of a cult dedicated to Sawtooth as part of an adventure that should be coming out next month out now on the JC: Skull Ruins: Tusk Riders Need Blood (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/482306/Skull-Ruins-Tusk-Riders-Need-Blood?affiliate_id=4274120). I didn’t want to publish without checking that I’d dotted my ‘i’s and crossed my ‘T’s so any help with finding material would be really appreciated.

As the title says, I want to know if there’s any more material about who Sawtooth Korvan was. The only reference I’ve found to him is from Cults of Prax’ Aldrya cult description, reproduced in the RQG The Earth Goddesses book, in the section “Rootless Elves and Renegades”:

Many [Renegade Elves] turn to outright hatred of their kinspeople, and tales are still told of Saw-Tooth Korvan, a meat-eating elf who terrorized the Stinking Forest to help trolls during the Inhuman Occupation of Dragon Pass between 1200 and 1250 S.T.

Sawtooth’s a traitor to the cult of Aldrya, a troll-friend and a meat eater to boot! He feels too interesting to not have more written about him.

I have looked in the Moon Design books, the Bestiary, the Guide and the new Cult books and I think this is the only reference I’ve ever found to him. I don’t own Different Worlds or the original run of Wyrm’s Footnotes yet and I’d happily buy anything that mentions him.

If there isn’t anything else, can I invite some speculation – does anyone have an interpretation for the significance of the meat-eating? Or if the Stinking Forest is important as the forest in the story? Does the timeframe of 1200 to 1250 have a special influence on him? I’ve tried answering these questions myself but I’d love to hear how other Gloranthas would feature him.

Edited June 12 by RicKaySi
The Adventure is now on the JC!

[Nevermet]

Great question I have no ability to answer

That said, I do appreciate the idea of starting with the particularities of the Stinking Forest, though I don't know them.

Also, lets also acknowledge that all the creatures associated with the Man Rune always have deviants, individuals who do not conform to the group goals.  So... maybe its not some grand epic move.  Maybe Sawtooth was a criminal or something.

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, RicKaySi said:

If there isn’t anything else, can I invite some speculation – does anyone have an interpretation for the significance of the meat-eating?

I assumed that he ate meat because Aldryami didn't. However, he might have HeroQuested against the Aldryami and gained the ability to eat meat. Alternatively, he might be connected with meat-eating plants and could naturally eat meat.

1 hour ago, RicKaySi said:

Or if the Stinking Forest is important as the forest in the story?

It is a place where Aldryami, Trolls and Tusk Riders live, so is naturally dangerous to Aldryami. Having another anti-Aldryami bandit doesn't make a big difference, although he would know Aldryami ways.

1 hour ago, RicKaySi said:

Does the timeframe of 1200 to 1250 have a special influence on him?

The Dragonkill was in 1120, so this was during the Inhuman Occupation, where the Elder Races reigned supreme. The Glorantha Sourcebook p10 says that most of the Aldryami were in the Stinking Forest, so that is probably where he wanted to raid.

 

[metcalph]

My guess would be something like...

He was in a forest which burned down during the Dragonkill.  Not deliberately torched by the dragons but a secondary fire.  He always was a sensitive bloke and the fiery trauma caused by the senseless deaths of so many plants deranged him.  Now he finds release in eating meet and killing elves.

[Peter Hart]

Given his friendship with trolls, I wonder if Sawtooth's cult uses giant sawtooth beetles as familiars? See https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Oryzaephilus_surinamensis_(Linné,_1758)_(14438947353).png 

Separately wondering if inspiration for the name came from the Sawtooth National Forest in Idaho. See https://www.fs.usda.gov/attmain/sawtooth

[RicKaySi]

Thanks for all the helpful replies! I am still on one post a day so I couldn’t show my appreciation until my likes regenerated last night.

On 5/25/2024 at 7:50 PM, Nevermet said:

Also, lets also acknowledge that all the creatures associated with the Man Rune always have deviants, individuals who do not conform to the group goals.

Very much agree with the idea of him being a deviant, he is a plant-man, but plant men still have the man rune and by extension a measure of capacity for innovation.

Might his innovation be that he is fascinated by meat-beings? There’s an aspect of forest management that some animal activity can improve the health of a forest (a point also raised by @jajagappa in this thread). I got stuck on the idea that he is trying to create an even stronger expression of this symbiosis. Unlike other elves he expresses this urge by eating animals and people, essentially putting plants at the top as well as the bottom of the food chain, making the forest a closed loop.

Whether this is practical or not might not matter to give him power, it’s new and in Glorantha novelty can connect someone to an untapped power and restructure reality. Might explain how he was able to live outside of Aldrya’s protection and why trolls might sympathise with his philosophy, even if he eats them too.

On 5/25/2024 at 8:28 PM, soltakss said:

Having another anti-Aldryami bandit doesn't make a big difference, although he would know Aldryami ways.

If I’m not misunderstanding that might mean that his primary threat to other Aldryami is that he knows Aldryami magic – and could reveal some of its secrets to outsiders. Part of the reason I wanted to create a cult of Sawtooth was as a way to blend Tusk Rider and Aldryami powers. I didn’t think they could live so close to each other in the Stinking Forest, and for so long, without (even accidentally) exchanging ideas.

On 5/25/2024 at 8:28 PM, soltakss said:

he might have HeroQuested against the Aldryami and gained the ability to eat meat.

I hadn’t even considered what kind of Heroquest he’d maybe need to perform for the power to eat meat! I have made him a Heroquester, but mostly to explain his Troll connections. I might have to add a quest for how he became a meat eater.

On 5/25/2024 at 11:35 PM, metcalph said:

the fiery trauma caused by the senseless deaths of so many plants deranged him.  Now he finds release in eating meet and killing elves.

That’s a great idea! I like the idea of a deranged survivor of a catastrophe hunting other survivors – all whilst imitating the thing that hurt them. I suppose if you’re the one who is finally responsible for making your clan extinct it becomes a sort of twisted version of “you can’t fire me, I quit”.

Although saying he “terrorized the forest to help trolls” may imply he killed elves, I don’t think it’s necessarily explicit. I assume he taught Trolls and Tusk Riders some of his magic, and that’s what made him a heretic in the eyes of other Aldryami. Betraying cult is arguably worse than killing fellow elves if those secrets are connected to your people’s survival.

Thanks @Peter Hart! Both really interesting connections behind what could have inspired the name. Do we know if Greg ever hiked around Idaho?

[John Biles]

17 hours ago, RicKaySi said:

That’s a great idea! I like the idea of a deranged survivor of a catastrophe hunting other survivors – all whilst imitating the thing that hurt them. I suppose if you’re the one who is finally responsible for making your clan extinct it becomes a sort of twisted version of “you can’t fire me, I quit”.

Although saying he “terrorized the forest to help trolls” may imply he killed elves, I don’t think it’s necessarily explicit. I assume he taught Trolls and Tusk Riders some of his magic, and that’s what made him a heretic in the eyes of other Aldryami. Betraying cult is arguably worse than killing fellow elves if those secrets are connected to your people’s survival.

Thanks @Peter Hart! Both really interesting connections behind what could have inspired the name. Do we know if Greg ever hiked around Idaho?

He achieved Draconic Illumination by way of experiencing a Dragon and now he eats meat creatures to enable them to shed their corrupt lives and be reborn, having convinced himself that is why the Dragons burned part of the Stinking Forest.  (This goes with the 'The Dragonkill was a giant involuntary utumna' theory.)

[davecake]

If the Stinking Forest is important, consider the Cult of the Bloody Tusk already includes both appeasing the Earth with bloody sacrifices, and Troll friendly Darkness magic. Do we even need a separate cult for him? The prospect of an elf in the Bloody Tusk is already scary enough. If we want a special ability for him, let him gain magic directly from the Appease Earth sacrifices of flesh to the Earth. His meat eating is an expression of the same principle as Appease Earth in a more physical, mundane way. 

[RicKaySi]

On 5/28/2024 at 5:31 AM, John Biles said:

He achieved Draconic Illumination by way of experiencing a Dragon and now he eats meat creatures to enable them to shed their corrupt lives and be reborn, having convinced himself that is why the Dragons burned part of the Stinking Forest.  (This goes with the 'The Dragonkill was a giant involuntary utumna' theory.)

I like the visuals of this idea a lot, Dragons in Dragon Pass seem to make up the land as well as the celestial connotations you see in Dara Happa/Kralorela. Some art for King of Dragon Pass’ intro clan quiz has a Dragon that's rising out of the earth during the Dragonkill to devour the trespassing Golden Horde. I liked this visual as soon as I saw it, it neatly expresses the idea they were roused into action and that the Golden Horde made a tactical blunder walking right into the middle of a magical ambush.

Outside Dragonkill, Dragons as an expression of land would fit as a good mystical trigger or spirit animal for Earth and Blood type characters. Dragons-as-land itself could be part of mysticism as both Devourer (when you are buried) and then Rebirther as things grow on them (with seeds of all kinds interpreted as eggs powered by the Dragon’s gift of vitality).

If Bagog didn’t already eat people and rebirth them then it would seem a natural fit for a Dragon Power to eat and rebirth your enemy, maybe with the understanding you are taking responsibility for their reincarnation.

I would love to hear more about your Involuntary Utuma theory!

On 5/28/2024 at 10:06 AM, davecake said:

If we want a special ability for him, let him gain magic directly from the Appease Earth sacrifices of flesh to the Earth.

I totally agree with your take that his meat eating could be an expression of appeasing/empowering the earth with blood – when I was designing his Boss Monster / Cult Wyter form I came up with some powers tied to that.

I thought that rather than the Troll and Tusk Rider magic being the scary part it should be the innovative blending of elements that give Trolls and Tusk riders access to elf-magic that is scary. Aldryami can remote view and camouflage themselves, these abilities would make Tusk Rider and Troll ambushes even more dangerous.

I always thought elves by themselves could be very intimidating if played right. They have very high morale from their forest connection and could make good hit and run fighters. I think there’s a reason most battles against elves in lore seem to feature just burning the forest down rather than facing them on their turf.

 

I wanted to say a huge thanks to everyone who replied to my question, it’s good to know there are indeed no other known official publications about Sawtooth. Which is great as in the end the lack of official material freed up speculation to run rampant!

[davecake]

On 6/1/2024 at 3:54 AM, RicKaySi said:

I thought that rather than the Troll and Tusk Rider magic being the scary part it should be the innovative blending of elements that give Trolls and Tusk riders access to elf-magic that is scary. Aldryami can remote view and camouflage themselves, these abilities would make Tusk Rider and Troll ambushes even more dangerous.

Letting tusk riders get access to Aldryami rune points via Appease Earth sacrifices would combine the two nicely IMO. 

[RicKaySi]

On 6/10/2024 at 8:05 AM, davecake said:

Letting tusk riders get access to Aldryami rune points via Appease Earth sacrifices would combine the two nicely IMO. 

This is a really fantastic idea! This concept could be expanded to give sacrifice/Appease Earth a power unique to Earth Cults. In this case when an Earth Cultist uses Appease Earth they could create temporary, one use, Rune Points they assign for access to a Rune Spell from another Earth Cult. For example a Maran Gor could sacrifice a bull, a magic item and basket of corn for a one-use of Bless Crops.

It works thematically, in a lot of Earth Cult mysteries the ritual secret/message often emphasises cooperation, compromise and sharing power over territoriality (between Earth Cults). It happens a lot in Ernalda Feeds the Tribe: Ernalda meets her daughters, Aldrya and Babeester Gor, her sister Maran Gor and her aunt Ty Kora Tek and gets to access powers in the form of Barntar, Voria and underworld entry/egress. So in one interpretation the Earth Goddesses may be able to communicate via a deep shared connection, different to the transactional of Issaries' spell trading.

This could very easily get overpowered though...

There are already some limiting factors in place: the possible requirement of human(sentient) sacrifice, and/or the destruction of a costly magic item, but is that enough? Maybe a sacrifice of Power equal to the Rune Points is needed for this extra effect from Appease Earth, or maybe it is necessary for the sacrificer to specify the one-use spell they want at the point of the ritual rather than gaining flexible Rune Points.

Even increasing the cost it could still be worth it in specific scenarios. A party might need a Seal Soul spell to resurrect the party healer Ernalda/Chalana Arroy/Eiritha who's fallen - so the Maran Gor steps in and makes the sacrifice, or maybe a Babeester has a strategy that relies on a rockslide to narrow a pass into a defile where she can use her Axe Trance better and there's no Shakers in the party, etc.

To avoid making it seem like "cheap" multiclassing I think players and GMs would have to emphasise that this use of the spell is almost taboo. It shows the deep shared foundations to Magic in different Earth Cults that should only be accessed at times of utmost need, due to the high cost, spiritual boundary blurring and personal sacrifice necessary.

What do you think, can this idea of "mutual understanding and power through sacrifice" be made into a workable gameplay mechanic?

[RicKaySi]

For anyone who hasn't had a chance to see the adventure, which went live on the JC last week, I thought I'd share some art from the Sawtooth Cult writeup: