Issaries or Eurmal sorcerers?

[Aurelius]

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Is it even possible ? I imagine that you need so much concentration (depth, time, etc...) to learn and master runes and technics, then to canalize energy when you cast a sorcery spell that you can't be disturbed by any spirit visiting your fetch. Or maybe your fetch will refuse anything that could lead you to the sorcery path

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the moment I don't think there is such a concept as "Sorcerer" in the RQG rules -- just someone who knows some Sorcery spells or has Mastered some Runes or Techniques. So unlike Shamanism, which is very much a binary (fetch asleep or awake), being a sorcerer is very much a spectrum. 

As far as I understand, there is nothing in the rules that would prohibit a sorcery-knowing individual from awakening a Fetch, and using sorcery afterwards.

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Social sciences versus logic science ? They may consider that those who bargain every day with spirits are unable to determine and demonstrate any unquestionable truth

Maybe their gods secrets are disgusting for people who live with spirits and they don't want to take any risk (revolt, madness,...)

On Lankorings I'm thinking ancestors as the key spirits to learn from!

[Joerg]

18 minutes ago, Aurelius said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the moment I don't think there is such a concept as "Sorcerer" in the RQG rules -- just someone who knows some Sorcery spells or has Mastered some Runes or Techniques. So unlike Shamanism, which is very much a binary (fetch asleep or awake), being a sorcerer is very much a spectrum. 

As far as I understand, there is nothing in the rules that would prohibit a sorcery-knowing individual from awakening a Fetch, and using sorcery afterwards.

You would need a shamanic society or tradition to accept you despite your spirit-destroying atheist ways. Most shamanic paths would have an in-built taboo against knowing sorcery. In the least restrictive way that might mean you must not have memorized any sorcery spells while acting as a shaman and acquiring and using shamanic abilities while training to acquire a fetch.

Your Mary Sue sorcerer might of course have stored all of their useful spells in inscriptions, with the skill ratings for casting those spells frozen, while undergoing the shamanic ascendance trials and taboos, and then use illumination to ignore the taboos when using sorcery. Once the fetch is awakened, the obligation to the master shaman is one of friendly services rather than subservience, and the sorcerous career might be taken up again.

From what I have seen of orthodox draconic mystical practices, these start with animist practices which hypothetically might include shamanic abilities and even a fetch, then theistic practices and finally sorcery. The first ability in illumination would be acquired in the animist phase, and possibly end it. (It seems to do so for dragonewts, except for those trapped in animism who become magisaurs instead. Magisauri don't seem to acquire any shamanic powers, at least usually not, but someone or something does seem to give them access to more spirit magic than what they started with.)

[Kloster]

48 minutes ago, Joerg said:

RQ3 did not forbid multiple runic ranks, it only did not clarify how to organize the time and tithe management the way RQG does.

What I meant is that, except for some cults, a shaman was not allowed to be priest, rune lord or sorcerer, a priest was not allowed to be shaman, rune lord or sorceror, a rune lord was not allowed to be shaman, priest (but he could be acolyte) or sorceror, and a sorceror was not allowed to be shaman or priest (I don't remember for acolyte or rune lord).

[Kloster]

52 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Orlanth requires theism of his rune levels, but allows multiple theist initiation to friendly cults.

According to Jeff and the Well, Orlanth does not teach, but does not forbid sorcery, and has no cult sorceror. I understand this as an orlanthi can be a sorceror, and thus that the cult does not require a strict theism.

Likewise, Orlanth does not forbid to be Shaman, but has no cult shaman, contrary to Yelm or Waha or Kyger Lytor.

[Kloster]

50 minutes ago, Aurelius said:

As far as I understand, there is nothing in the rules that would prohibit a sorcery-knowing individual from awakening a Fetch, and using sorcery afterwards.

I understand the same.

[Kloster]

19 minutes ago, Joerg said:

You would need a shamanic society or tradition to accept you despite your spirit-destroying atheist ways. Most shamanic paths would have an in-built taboo against knowing sorcery. In the least restrictive way that might mean you must not have memorized any sorcery spells while acting as a shaman and acquiring and using shamanic abilities while training to acquire a fetch.

This is world-wise and not rules wise, and I fully agree on that point.

 

20 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Your Mary Sue sorcerer might of course have stored all of their useful spells in inscriptions, with the skill ratings for casting those spells frozen, while undergoing the shamanic ascendance trials and taboos, and then use illumination to ignore the taboos when using sorcery. Once the fetch is awakened, the obligation to the master shaman is one of friendly services rather than subservience, and the sorcerous career might be taken up again.

Agreed, but what do you think of the reverse order: Becoming shaman (so you don't know any sorcery), and once the fetch is awakened, learn sorcery. I know there would be a problem of time needed, but I don't think anything in the rules or in the world description would forbid it (of course, if the cult(s) you belong to allow to be shaman or sorceror ... like Orlanth or Kyger Lytor or Seven Mothers ...)

[Jens]

As a fun thought experiment, I created an Irrippi Ontor initiate who specialized in Spirit Lore and Meditation as her Sage skills. On reaching Sage status (and becoming illuminated), through the transitive power of the Seven Mothers she joined Jakaleel and awakened her Fetch. The fun is really about to begin once she becomes a Red Goddess initiate with a Fetch, an Allied Spirit, and a high Free INT for casting Lunar Sorcery.

[French Desperate WindChild]

2 hours ago, Aurelius said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the moment I don't think there is such a concept as "Sorcerer" in the RQG rules

you are right 🙂 a lot of things come from the past. If I remember correctly that was the case in the previous version (in the same way that Orlanth now -rqg- accepts sorcery, or LM schools teach sorcery for their initiates)

 

but I tend to follow @Joerg on the shamanic societies (no idea about his draconic mysticism however, I have no idead about draconic mysticism at all in fact.. I would like, I would like 😛 )

2 hours ago, Aurelius said:

On Lankorings I'm thinking ancestors as the key spirits to learn from!

I would say cult spirits are better, as at least they know the process of knowledge transmission 😛 

 

 

[EricW]

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I.e. they are ideal for Argrath to recruit into his weird Magical Societies.

After Argrath returned from his visit to the dead god learners, "more god than man", he gets to rewrite the rules - just like the Lunars were attempting to do. Temple of the reaching storm, right? 🙂

[Jex]

This character is supposed to be a young starting pregen, so a concept like an aged Humakti who took up sorcery in semi-retirement doesn't really work for it, I'm afraid... that could certainly be an interesting character, but not for these purposes.  And while I see the point that a Duck could in theory practice sorcery in secret, I'm not keen on one of the pregens being a character who is going against their people's beliefs and would be killed messily if their secret ever came out.  Again, that could be an interesting character, and as a GM I'd probably allow it if a player wanted to roleplay that, but it's a bit... precarious for a pregen.  (By the same token, this character isn't supposed to be a powerful sorcerer with an extensive selection of spells, just a starting character with sorcerous abilities on par with Sorala from the Starter Set.)

Anyway, though, I have come up with a possible backstory for a Humakti sorcerer character, though I'm still relatively new to RuneQuest and Glorantha so if anyone with more experience with Glorantha sees anything in this backstory that doesn't make sense or wouldn't work, please let me know:

====

Salwar Alfgar's Daughter is the oldest daughter of Alfgar Grimblade, (then-)chief of the Marshedge Clan.  Although Alfgar was a doughty warrior, Salwar from a young age was curious and bookish, seemingly more interested in learning about the world than in taking up the sword.  Alfgar was somewhat disappointed that his daughter would apparently not be following in his footsteps, but nevertheless he loved her and wanted to support her—though he wasn't sure how.

Then, while Salwar was still quite young, an aged and learned Lunar deserter arrived in Marshedge begging asylum.  He claimed to be a Sartar sympathizer who had betrayed his Lunar compatriots, and who hoped to settle in the village of Marshedge, far enough from any major trade routes that it was unlikely he would be sought here by Lunar forces looking for vengeance.  Alfgar mistrusted him at first, but a Detect Truth spell confirmed the Lunar's veracity, so the chief agreed to let him stay.  To make him useful, Alfgar hired him to tutor his knowledge-hungry daughter—provided, of course, that he promised to stick to teaching only objective facts about nature and the world, and not try to fill her head with nonsense about the Lunar Way.

The Lunar agreed [if I do go with this backstory I suppose I should give this character a name, but I haven't yet], and Salwar took well to her lessons.  But then one day her tutor happened to mention that he knew sorcery—and Salwar was immediately fascinated, and begged him to teach her these powers.  The Lunar tutor demurred, fearing that her father might disapprove, but in the face of her unrelenting importunement he finally gave in and agreed to teach her some sorcery, as long as she didn't tell her father.  Here, too, she proved an able student, and surprised him with how quickly she picked up the basics.

When Salwar came of age, however, she wanted to do her part to help protect her besieged community—and she decided to learn the way of the sword after all, and join the cult of Humakt.  Her father was surprised, but certainly pleased, and supported her daughter's choice.  Yet she did not forget the sorcery she had been taught.  The Lunar who taught her has since died of old age, and she has no easy source to learn new techniques or spells—but that's something to be worked out in role-playing.  (Her father, too, is dead by now, having been slain by Delicti's zombies—a common occupational hazard for Marshedge cheftains.)  She is still as curious as she ever was, and still interested in knowledge and learning—but she uses that knowledge in her fight against the Upland Marsh and the forces of the Necromancer.

====

Anyway, all of that is tentative and still subject to change.  I'm also undecided as to how open she is about her practice of sorcery—whether she managed to keep her studies hidden from her father until his death, and still practices it only in secret, or whether he discovered what she was doing very early on but didn't have a problem with it as long as she used it for good ends.  (Or wait, maybe he discovered what she was doing and made a deal with her that he'd allow her to continue her sorcery studies as long as she also started to learn combat skills, and that's how she found out she actually did have a talent for and interest in combat after all?  Hmm...)

[French Desperate WindChild]

4 hours ago, Jex said:

This character is supposed to be a young starting pregen, so a concept like an aged Humakti who took up sorcery in semi-retirement doesn't really work for it, I'm afraid... that could certainly be an interesting character, but not for these purposes.  And while I see the point that a Duck could in theory practice sorcery in secret, I'm not keen on one of the pregens being a character who is going against their people's beliefs and would be killed messily if their secret ever came out.  Again, that could be an interesting character, and as a GM I'd probably allow it if a player wanted to roleplay that, but it's a bit... precarious for a pregen.  (By the same token, this character isn't supposed to be a powerful sorcerer with an extensive selection of spells, just a starting character with sorcerous abilities on par with Sorala from the Starter Set.)

Anyway, though, I have come up with a possible backstory for a Humakti sorcerer character, though I'm still relatively new to RuneQuest and Glorantha so if anyone with more experience with Glorantha sees anything in this backstory that doesn't make sense or wouldn't work, please let me know:

====

Salwar Alfgar's Daughter is the oldest daughter of Alfgar Grimblade, (then-)chief of the Marshedge Clan.  Although Alfgar was a doughty warrior, Salwar from a young age was curious and bookish, seemingly more interested in learning about the world than in taking up the sword.  Alfgar was somewhat disappointed that his daughter would apparently not be following in his footsteps, but nevertheless he loved her and wanted to support her—though he wasn't sure how.

Then, while Salwar was still quite young, an aged and learned Lunar deserter arrived in Marshedge begging asylum.  He claimed to be a Sartar sympathizer who had betrayed his Lunar compatriots, and who hoped to settle in the village of Marshedge, far enough from any major trade routes that it was unlikely he would be sought here by Lunar forces looking for vengeance.  Alfgar mistrusted him at first, but a Detect Truth spell confirmed the Lunar's veracity, so the chief agreed to let him stay.  To make him useful, Alfgar hired him to tutor his knowledge-hungry daughter—provided, of course, that he promised to stick to teaching only objective facts about nature and the world, and not try to fill her head with nonsense about the Lunar Way.

The Lunar agreed [if I do go with this backstory I suppose I should give this character a name, but I haven't yet], and Salwar took well to her lessons.  But then one day her tutor happened to mention that he knew sorcery—and Salwar was immediately fascinated, and begged him to teach her these powers.  The Lunar tutor demurred, fearing that her father might disapprove, but in the face of her unrelenting importunement he finally gave in and agreed to teach her some sorcery, as long as she didn't tell her father.  Here, too, she proved an able student, and surprised him with how quickly she picked up the basics.

When Salwar came of age, however, she wanted to do her part to help protect her besieged community—and she decided to learn the way of the sword after all, and join the cult of Humakt.  Her father was surprised, but certainly pleased, and supported her daughter's choice.  Yet she did not forget the sorcery she had been taught.  The Lunar who taught her has since died of old age, and she has no easy source to learn new techniques or spells—but that's something to be worked out in role-playing.  (Her father, too, is dead by now, having been slain by Delicti's zombies—a common occupational hazard for Marshedge cheftains.)  She is still as curious as she ever was, and still interested in knowledge and learning—but she uses that knowledge in her fight against the Upland Marsh and the forces of the Necromancer.

====

Anyway, all of that is tentative and still subject to change.  I'm also undecided as to how open she is about her practice of sorcery—whether she managed to keep her studies hidden from her father until his death, and still practices it only in secret, or whether he discovered what she was doing very early on but didn't have a problem with it as long as she used it for good ends.  (Or wait, maybe he discovered what she was doing and made a deal with her that he'd allow her to continue her sorcery studies as long as she also started to learn combat skills, and that's how she found out she actually did have a talent for and interest in combat after all?  Hmm...)

I love the idea of introducing exotic skills by "exotic" mentors so that way could be a good way, for sure.

However  culture and cult of a sorcery mentor imply a lot of consequences on skills (if you follow the rqg creation rules)

So first let's go on the choice of the occupation for your pregen pc.

Is she a phisolopher (so our exotic lunar came when she was child) and her martial skills are based on Humakt cult skills and personal skills or

Is she a warrior (so our exotic lunar came when you want and her sorcery skills  are based on personal skills but what about rune/technique mastery ? that's not in the creation rules I believe - the only source are philosopher occupation or a sorcery cult) ?
 

Then some remarks

a) the pc must be litterate to cast sorcery spell (p388 RQG core rules). So your pc must learn the mentor's Read/Write skill he uses to cast/learn sorcery spell. If you choose a lunar, it seems obvious (to me 😛 ) that your pregen must learn Read/Write new pelorian.

b) if the pc learns new pelorian, it seems obvious (to me again) that the pc must learn speak new pelorian too. In addition, as the mentor is lunar, it seems obvious (again !) that your pc have learnt some custom (depending on the origin, carmania, dara happa, ...)

- So choosing the lunar culture implies that :

If philosopher, you have the RW +50% any, that's fine, but you must pick up a personal skill (Phi:1) to learn speak New Pelorian and any lunar custom (Phi:2).

If warrior, you must pick up a personal skill for both RW (War:1), speak (War:2) new pelorian, any lunar custom (War:3). Based on the p388, remember that your pc will have the limit of 25+knowledge bonus to cast any spell, at the start of the campaign

If you choose a sartarite mentor, you "save" in both cases twopersonal skills by the way (and the RW is now Theyalan)

 

-Then you have to identify what spells and runes/techniques your mentor may know and accept to teach (and why). If you choose LM it will be weird to offer other than LM spells (but it depends on "why"), if you choose lunar , there are so many magical school that you, as designer, have more freedom to choose what you want.

As philosopher, nothing to say then,

As warrior, we have already spent 1 +25 personal skill (RW) maybe a second one (+25/+10) to speak and a third (+10) to know some customs, if you choose lunar (note that it seems to me interesting to have one pc who speaks NP, so a +25 could be nice)

that means you have still

2 or 3 +25% to dispatch on sorcery spells (if you want your pc to cast something one day) and 4 or 3 +10% to get techniques runes and minor spells (or other skills like meditation, etc...)

 

So in conclusion, from my perspective :

The choice of philosopher allows you to fit the rules and to let your pc have some good % to cast a spell, and focus personal and cult skill on sword skill may let reach a good % in fight too. Remember that INT must be high enough to determine the number of runes/techniques.

The choice of warrior offers of course a very good warrior and you focus the personal skills mainly (only ?!) on sorcery skills. She will start as a poor sorcerer but she may have good effects sometimes In addition you have to house rule how she get one or two runes/techniques (one personal skill may become one mastery ?) In all cases she will be a poor sorcerer. That fits with the background however : not a lof of time to try, train herself. And in addition she had to do it secretly, so not a good situation to be a good sorcerer.

 

I m sorry to put this rq rules in the glorantha part of the forum, but the discussion is here 🙂

 

[Jex]

Thanks for the useful notes.  The reason I gave her a Lunar mentor rather than a Sartarite was because I gather sorcerers are quite rare among Sartarites except in the cult of Lhankor Mhy, and per CoG:L Lhankor Mhy cultists only teach sorcery to those initiated into that cult—it might be possible to come up with some justification for why one might make an exception, but having the tutor be a Lunar seemed to require less of a stretch.  (And the Lunar occupation is recent enough that there would still likely plenty of Lunars around in nearby areas).  I was planning on using the Philosopher background for her; the idea was that the tutoring started when she was quite young, and she only took up the sword later.  I haven't started statting her up yet, but I'll definitely keep the points in your post in mind when I do.

[Shiningbrow]

19 hours ago, Joerg said:

You would need a shamanic society or tradition to accept you despite your spirit-destroying atheist ways.

Why??

When I was helping out @Ian A. Thomson in writing Vol IV of Pavis and Big Rubble, we were talking about how to have his Rowdy leader get his sorcery/shaman magic type stuff. I suggested that he had a sorcerer ancestor (which made it into the book) who had the Spirit rune, and developed spells that imitate Discorporation and similar, as well as Spirit Summoning and Binding - and thus, the ability to summon a shaman spirit (ancestor?) and force them to teach skills like Spirit Dance and Spirit Travel. From there, they can learn the map of the spirit world, and even to seek out the Horned Man and go through the Ordeals to awaken a Fetch (and, presumably, fight the Bad Man - rather than simply just come back to the material plane...).

The rules also allow for spontaneous shamanic 'initiation' (going through the Ordeals)... so, it's possible for someone to do that, and also learn sorcery. (just thinking about this, I'd almost be inclined to suggest that learning the sorcerous Spirit Technique may be a path for that to happen).

 

Back to the OP... there's not really a reason why a duck (Humakti(??)) - young and inexperienced (or her parents) couldn't have been fleeing Tarsh during/before the pogrom (if the 'Tarsh exile' is still a requirement for this NPC), and end up in Arkat's Hold. I'm quite sure that they'd value such a person, and there's a need for more guards than sorcerers. From there it's not a huge leap to just add the sorcery. It also adds for more secrecy, and the possibility that she is there because of the interest in Delecti - a duck Arkati would make a great spy for the Black Arkati. (yes, I know it's sort of been hinted at previously - I'm just thrashing it out a bit more here).

She won't have the beard, but should have a certain tattoo (normally on the head, but perhaps under the beak?? (Or have the feathers grown back?)

(also remember, you don't need to stick to the occupations in the RQG, and can move skill assignments around... meaning, in this case, perhaps dropping a weapon skill or two, and changing to R/W and a spell or two).

 

As another thought - a Lhankor Mhy Sword Sage... down in Sylthi where such are trained... (you'd get your beard back :p)

[Aurelius]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

As another thought - a Lhankor Mhy Sword Sage... down in Sylthi where such are trained... (you'd get your beard back :p)

Just be an Initiate of both and call it a day. 

RQG makes Glorantha a lot more flexible in that sense, because you don't really need rune levels for anything -- I mean allied spirits and POW gain boosts are great, but not mandatory. 

The real problem and the real question in all these multiclass concepts is whether the Sorcery side will ever be good enough to be usable in play. You have to sacrifice a ton to get it started, and what's the real fun spell you are going to wave around to show for it? Certainly none of the ones listed in Lhankor Mhy cult description.

[Shiningbrow]

24 minutes ago, Aurelius said:

The real problem and the real question in all these multiclass concepts is whether the Sorcery side will ever be good enough to be usable in play. You have to sacrifice a ton to get it started, and what's the real fun spell you are going to wave around to show for it? Certainly none of the ones listed in Lhankor Mhy cult description.

That's why you don't limit yourself to just those. Absolutely nothing stopping your LM from learning so much more out there, and some of the various factions of LM would most certainly encourage it.

[French Desperate WindChild]

2 hours ago, Aurelius said:

You have to sacrifice a ton to get it started, and what's the real fun spell you are going to wave around to show for it? Certainly none of the ones listed in Lhankor Mhy cult description.

it depends a lot on the campaign (how to have situation where LM spells are usefull), the player (how to have "fun" with a LM sorcerer) and the gm (how to build opposition making "fun" the LM spells)

that's a challenge for sure but it happens. And after, as @Shiningbrow, you could create a background explaining why and how (passion, hook for the GM's campaign, etc..) your pc starts with a not LM but "fun" spell

[French Desperate WindChild]

6 hours ago, Jex said:

The reason I gave her a Lunar mentor rather than a Sartarite was because I gather sorcerers are quite rare among Sartarites except in the cult of Lhankor Mhy, and per CoG:L Lhankor Mhy cultists only teach sorcery to those initiated into that cult

it makes sense 🙂 but I m not sure who are the rarest between :

- Sartarite sorcerers outside LM cult

- Sartarie sorcerers inside LM cult but, at the end of day, accepts to teach LM sorcery outside the cult

- Lunar deserter hiding  from the empire in a duck village. Probably someone tested on him madness spell 😛 

At least it allows you to choose any kind of spell without LM restriction ! (even if a LM can know spells outside the LM range, but I imagine, if I were a LM sorcerer and I had to teach a young apprentice I would start with LM spells, very usefull... when you are a scholar.. and sometimes when you are not too)

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

- Sartarie sorcerers inside LM cult but, at the end of day, accepts to teach LM sorcery outside the cult

As far as I have understood, this one is the rarest, because it seems forbiden to LM to teach sorcery to non initiates.

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

- Lunar deserter hiding  from the empire in a duck village.

Should come second, because of the duck village. If you had said in Pavis, Nochet or another city, there should be quite a number of Tarshite Fazzurites hiding there, some of them being sorcerers. You could even have some of them among Argrath SMU.

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

- Sartarite sorcerers outside LM cult

Should be the most numerous, if only because of the Aeolians, but I think the number would still be low.

[Jex]

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

- Lunar deserter hiding  from the empire in a duck village. Probably someone tested on him madness spell 😛 

Well, I mean... it's not a Duck village.  It's a backwater village at the edge of the Upland Marsh, but the Marshedge clan is part of the Lismelder tribe; they're human.  They have close ties to the Durulz, to the extent there are a handful of them living among them (which is why I thought it would work to have a Duck as one of the pregens), but the vast majority of the village's inhabitants are (Theyalan) humans.

Just to be clear, I'd only intended for one of the pregen characters to be a Duck, and that character won't be a sorcerer, for the reasons discussed earlier.  The Humakti sorcerer my previous post was about is human.

[French Desperate WindChild]

13 hours ago, Jex said:

Well, I mean... it's not a Duck village.  It's a backwater village at the edge of the Upland Marsh, but the Marshedge clan is part of the Lismelder tribe; they're human.  They have close ties to the Durulz, to the extent there are a handful of them living among them (which is why I thought it would work to have a Duck as one of the pregens), but the vast majority of the village's inhabitants are (Theyalan) humans.

Just to be clear, I'd only intended for one of the pregen characters to be a Duck, and that character won't be a sorcerer, for the reasons discussed earlier.  The Humakti sorcerer my previous post was about is human.

It was not a critic, I like your way. But yep I did not understand cleary who was the character thanks !

[French Desperate WindChild]

13 hours ago, Kloster said:

As far as I have understood, this one is the rarest, because it seems forbiden to LM to teach sorcery to non initiates.

yes it's rare

but you know, I'm a old guy , who had some issues with my cult, and become fond of this young girl; at the end, the only target of all the love I have in my too big heart...

And well that's not so bad to introduce the sorcery of Truth to this smart girl. She is 10, it will be too late if we don't start now. She may be called by the wise God. She must be. I have to

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

yes it's rare

but you know, I'm a old guy , who had some issues with my cult, and become fond of this young girl; at the end, the only target of all the love I have in my too big heart...

And well that's not so bad to introduce the sorcery of Truth to this smart girl. She is 10, it will be too late if we don't start now. She may be called by the wise God. She must be. I have to

Rare, but not nonexistent.

Nice idea. One of the possibilities where the 'most significant parent' is not the father or the mother. I like.

[RicKaySi]

16 hours ago, Jex said:

which is why I thought it would work to have a Duck as one of the pregens

Heroes in Glorantha are people who defend their societies whilst ignoring or outright violating at least some of their society's the rules. Harrek skinned his people's Grandfather-god and goes on to challenge the Lunars who enslaved him and Argrath is messing around with Dragon-magic after the previous Dragon experiments (supposedly) killed every human in what's now Sartar. It's safe to assume at least one duck is interested in Sorcery, especially as the ducks, Delecti, and human Orlanthi have been stuck in a bloody three-way stalemate for centuries - he could be looking to break the cycle and free the ducks. The duck could have raided an old sorcerer's tower and kept the books rather than handing them over to the lore-guardians of the village.

On 6/28/2024 at 10:03 AM, Jex said:

having the tutor be a Lunar seemed to require less of a stretch.  (And the Lunar occupation is recent enough that there would still likely plenty of Lunars around in nearby areas)

Love this character idea too btw, I think there's a very old sentiment about how people never stop adapting and learning, and even war can bring new ideas into contact: "it is right to learn, even from an enemy" - not sure it was worth the cost what with Boldhome being destroyed but sometimes you can only look forward.

On 6/27/2024 at 4:03 PM, Joerg said:

You would need a shamanic society or tradition to accept you despite your spirit-destroying atheist ways.

To me the main problem with being a Shaman vs. being a Sorcerer is that they're representing different ways of looking at the world. Sorcery seems focused on Matter and and its manipulation, with Spiritual questions either solved by tradition and scripture (Malkioni) or philosophically refuted (Atheists). But in the real world there are many people that would meet the requirements of both and could have analogues in Glorantha. Christian Demonologists like Johann Weyer assume God is singular and all-powerful but he also intellectually engaged with the idea of discourse with learned/powerful/useful supernatural creatures (Demons) and even systematized these interactions in a way recognizable to Gloranthan Sorcerers.

Full disclosure, my next Adventure (hopefully coming out in Nov) is set among the Aeolians and Atheists so I've been thinking about this a lot. Thank you for starting this thread @Jex, there's been a lot of Sorcery questions in the RQ side of these forums so a lot of people must be curious about exploring this aspect of Gameplay!

[RHW]

It seems to me the easiest way to have any traditional Sartarite know sorcery is to have either the character or one parent or the other be from "foreign parts." If you want the PC to be a local, the least complicated version is to have mom (in Sartar, women join their husband's bloodline, right?) be from southern Heortland where the Aeolians combine Storm Tribe worship with sorcery as their cultural practice. Maybe a former Aeolian adventurer who settled down for love? Mom taught her daughter Aeolian practices and Bob's your uncle (but he lives in Mt. Passant and you've never met him).

Edited Sunday at 02:37 AM by RHW

[Kloster]

On 6/27/2024 at 4:30 PM, Aurelius said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the moment I don't think there is such a concept as "Sorcerer" in the RQG rules -- just someone who knows some Sorcery spells or has Mastered some Runes or Techniques. So unlike Shamanism, which is very much a binary (fetch asleep or awake), being a sorcerer is very much a spectrum. 

In RQ3, being a sorceror meant having created your first familiar.

You're right, in RQG, there is no clear definition. I understand that being a sorceror means having at least 1 sorcery rune and/or 1 sorcery technique.