Newb question

[rogerd]

Okay I'm going to ask a really dumb....and noob question.......I have the various supplements but having only skipped read through the; I'm talking CoC, BRP, Legend, Runequest, RQII etc.

Besides the theme, what are the key differences between them?

[seneschal]

Not a dumb question at all, and one we've hashed over several times ourselves. While they are all similar, they vary in the Basic Roleplaying options used. Some give characters total hit points, others break up hit points by body part. Some use the strike ranks system in combat, others use DEX ranks. Some have a more detailed skills list, others have a compact skill list. The magic systems employed in each vary. Some games have a static defense for armor, others provide a variable defense. Mongoose RuneQuest II and Mongoose Legend are essentially the same thing (Mongoose lost the RQ license). I'm sure some of our Call of Cthulhu and RuneQuest grognards can fill you in on the gory details.

[rogerd]

Okay so I'm looking as Myshella in RQII & Runequest Elric and her stats are different, some wildly so.

Runequest: Elric Companion:

Primary: STR 12, CON 20, DEX 13, SIZ 10, INT 30, POW 40, CHA 30

Secondary: Combat Actions: 3, Magic Points: 40, Movement: 4m, Strike Rank: +22

Legendary Abilities: Empathic Wound, Heroic Aura, Immortal, Legendary Love (Aubec), Tireless

Skills: Dodge 60%, Infl uence 100%, Language (Common) 100%, Language (High Speech) 80%, Language (Low Speech) 100%, Lore (Law) 100%, Lore (Million Spheres) 90%, Perception 100%, Persistence 100%, Resilience 90%, Seduction 99%

RQII - Elric Corebook

Primary: STR 12, CON 20, SIZ 10, INT 21, POW 21, DEX 13, CHA 21

Secondary: Combat Actions 3, Damage Modifier —, Magic Points 21, Movement 8m, Strike Rank + 17

Heroic Abilities: Empathic Wound, Heroic Aura, Legendary Love (Various Heroes), Tireless

Gifts & Compulsions: Automaton (Flying Bird, Golem), Eternal Life, Sanctuary (Castle Kaneloon), Youth

Skills: Command 95%, Evade 60%, Influence 100%, Insight 90%, Language (Common) 100%, Language (High Speech) 80%, Language (Low Speech) 100%, Lore (Law) 100%, Lore (Million Spheres) 90%, Perception 100%, Persistence 100%, Resilience 90%, Seduction 99%

I don't want to post anymore in case I get into trouble...but so the key variances are POW, Gifts, & a few skills, something I would expected to remain constant, if you know what I mean?

EDIT: Has anyone used some of the Elric demons as lesser elder gods, gret ones and such-like?

Edited May 25, 2012 by rogerd

[Chaot]

EDIT: Has anyone used some of the Elric demons as lesser elder gods, gret ones and such-like?

I've used beasties in RQ and CoC as a spring board for demons and things in Elric!. As long as you keep in mind how the stats will work within the framework of the new rules and make changes as needed you're golden.

[rogerd]

I've used beasties in RQ and CoC as a spring board for demons and things in Elric!. As long as you keep in mind how the stats will work within the framework of the new rules and make changes as needed you're golden.

So it worked okay then?

I'm just getting back into BRP and its sister products atm and just getting used to how they work again; as much as I liked nWOD I found the wounding system lacking, in that it was too easy to survive, whereas this (and Unisystem) have particularly deadly rules - as from I can see you get hit without armour you're in really, really deep shit.

[rust]

Besides the theme, what are the key differences between them?

As I see it, BRP is less a system and more a toolbox full of options which can

be combined in various ways to create different "flavours" of closely related

d100 systems.

Call of Cthulhu is probably the most rules light system with the smallest num-

ber of options used. Despite its Mythos theme it can be used for all kinds of

settings and genres, from Dark Ages to Science Fiction, because the entire

Mythos thing can easily be deleted or ignored.

Runequest is more setting specific, it works very well for Glorantha, requires

some modifications for other fantasy settings (Elric, Hawkmoon, etc.) and is

not really well suited for non-fantasy settings.

Runequest II and Legend, which are currently still almost identical, are also

fantasy oriented, but less focussed on a specific setting or a small number

of basically similar settings, and with more potential than Runequest to de-

velop into a system which can also be used for non-fantasy settings.

[rogerd]

As I see it, BRP is less a system and more a toolbox full of options which can

be combined in various ways to create different "flavours" of closely related

d100 systems.

I see. Compared to Runequest (and other settings) and RQ II though BRP seems relatively rules light in comparison, having now come across alternate character generation with build points and legendary abilities; which I think would not tie in too well with things like Dragon Lines.

Call of Cthulhu is probably the most rules light system with the smallest num-ber of options used. Despite its Mythos theme it can be used for all kinds of

settings and genres, from Dark Ages to Science Fiction

Very true, it is also why I like Cthulhu Rising, other than its distinctly B5 similarity. Incidentally has anyone tried to do any coversations for that?

because the entire Mythos thing can easily be deleted or ignored.

Quick burn the heretic.

*runs to grab a pitchfork*

lol...kidding.

Runequest is more setting specific, it works very well for Glorantha, requires some modifications for other fantasy settings (Elric, Hawkmoon, etc.) and is not really well suited for non-fantasy settings.

To be honest, I've sped / skip read through most the rules books so far as I cannot decide which one to start with. Which one would you recommend?

Runequest II and Legend, which are currently still almost identical, are also fantasy oriented, but less focussed on a specific setting or a small number of basically similar settings, and with more potential than Runequest to de- velop into a system which can also be used for non-fantasy settings.

Legend I haven't got yet, RQ II is something I do have.

Incidentally has anyone done conversations for say things like Highlander, or Doctor Who and that sort of thing?

[rust]

Which one would you recommend?

This is certainly a matter of personal taste. I usually start with a Call of Cthulhu

version, either Cthulhu Dark Ages for fantasy settings or Cthulhu Rising for scien-

ce fiction settings, and then modify it and add options and subsystems from any

other d100 games until the result fits my idea of the setting. In my view it is the

greatest advantage of the "d100 family" that it is so easy to combine ideas from

different versions into a unique system for each setting, and Call of Cthulhu has

the necessary simplicity and flexibility to serve as a good foundation for such a

mixed setting specific system. However, this is just the way I handle it, others

have different and of course equally useful preferences and methods. The only

approach that is somewhat rare in the "d100 community" is to play one of the

versions "vanilla", strictly according to the rules as written and without house-

rules and other modifications.

[rogerd]

This is certainly a matter of personal taste.

What I do like about the BRP Corebook are the rules and stuff for science fiction bits n' pieces, e.g. disintegrators.

But, yes as a whole I see what you mean and flicked through in more details would use one of the three (CoC products), add bits from BRP, then plunder the fantasy setting of choice - and then add Legendary abilities.

It does most certainly seem that most of the magic systems are more-or-less identical, bar a few minor details - would that be correct? Personally it would be awesome to have someone from RuneQuest and Young Kingdoms in a CoC Dark Ages setting.

While some of the legandary abilities and the alternate magic is cool, it's not going to stop flat-out stop a lot of CoC critters, slow some down and give the players a fighting chance.

[seneschal]

Don't see any Babylon 5 conversions in our downloads section, but there's other sci-fi related stuff you might find useful.

My introduction to the BRP family was GORE, an attempt at an OGL version before the release of the Big Gold Book and BRP Quick-Start Edition (both GORE and Quick-Start are also in the downloads section). At the time, the 16-page version of BRP was long out of print. My first thought was science fiction rather than horror. I now have the BGB and frequently use the Super Powers rules to make science fiction critters.

[rogerd]

Don't see any Babylon 5 conversions in our downloads section, but there's other sci-fi related stuff you might find useful.

Cool, I'll take a lookie see shortly;)

How easy would D20 B5 convert to D100?

My introduction to the BRP family was GORE, an attempt at an OGL version before the release of the Big Gold Book and BRP Quick-Start Edition (both GORE and Quick-Start are also in the downloads section). At the time, the 16-page version of BRP was long out of print. My first thought was science fiction rather than horror. I now have the BGB and frequently use the Super Powers rules to make science fiction critters.

Seen BGB mentioned a few times and am very glad you've spelled it out for me. I'd been lurking for weeks and couldn't figure the bloody thing out. Now I know.

Having had a good look I'm getting to the opinion that any power, any ability, and any spell could used in any way you see fit really. So if there is a spell that fits the criteria for an ability you want a critter to have, then hey presto!

Anyone done Highlander for D100 yet? As I'm a big fan and having one in CoC or Young Kingdoms with legendary abilities would be awesome.

EDIT: I think my one and only gripe, with being new to it so to speak, is the lack of qualitiies and drawbacks (merits and flaws etc) in my opinion.

Edited May 25, 2012 by rogerd

[seneschal]

EDIT: I think my one and only gripe, with being new to it so to speak, is the lack of qualitiies and drawbacks (merits and flaws etc) in my opinion.

As a longtime Hero System fan, I'm used to advantages/edges and disadvantages/flaws. But many of our BRP veterans think such a thing is unnecessary. The closest we get is flaws in the Super Powers section. Putting together a merits/flaws system for BRP has been discussed in several threads but I'm not sure that anything came of it.

[rogerd]

EDIT: I think my one and only gripe, with being new to it so to speak, is the lack of qualitiies and drawbacks (merits and flaws etc) in my opinion.

As a longtime Hero System fan, I'm used to advantages/edges and disadvantages/flaws. But many of our BRP veterans think such a thing is unnecessary. The closest we get is flaws in the Super Powers section. Putting together a merits/flaws system for BRP has been discussed in several threads but I'm not sure that anything came of it.

Well I've been looking through Legendary Abilities and quite firmly of the opinion that could be split: Merits & Supernatural & Techniques. Thus making it more compatible with things like Dragon Lines.

Merits - an example from Legendary abilities would be poison immunity which would fit in quite nicely here.

Supernatural Merits - these cover supernatural type affects that are neither psychic nor truly magic, e..g Life Giver, and could easily include chi abilities from Dragon Lines. These should likely be powered by; PP, POW or MP?

Techniques - years of training has enabled the user to learn (from someone), or work out various techniques that make them stridesd above everyone else, e.g. Sundering Strike. Being unique and not something you can use to spam someone with, i.e. a degree og concentration and mental exertion is required - which should power this?

Thoughts?

Edited May 26, 2012 by rogerd

[rust]

But many of our BRP veterans think such a thing is unnecessary.

Guilty, Your Honour.

My defense is that I used to play GURPS and got tired of mute one-eyed albinos with

lots of odious habits and a fear of preferably extinct animals who used the character

points from their mostly meaningless disadvantages to buy superhuman abilities. I like

it that BRP does not support that kind of boring munchkinism and prefer normal human

characters anyways.

[rogerd]

Guilty, Your Honour.

My defense is that I used to play GURPS and got tired of mute one-eyed albinos with

lots of odious habits and a fear of preferably extinct animals who used the character

points from their mostly meaningless disadvantages to buy superhuman abilities. I like

it that BRP does not support that kind of boring munchkinism and prefer normal human

characters anyways.

Having played Gurps myself I can see why that can be a problem and totally agree to some extent.

Neither though am I postulating all the merits in WOD or Eden, as they get a bit ad nauseum after a while - just 'key' ones like Fast reflexes, poison immunity, longevity, things like that. The rest should be character and narrative driven to be honest.

As an aside, how does my idea above sound?

[lawrence.whitaker]

Okay so I'm looking as Myshella in RQII & Runequest Elric and her stats are different, some wildly so.

Runequest: Elric Companion:

Primary: STR 12, CON 20, DEX 13, SIZ 10, INT 30, POW 40, CHA 30

Secondary: Combat Actions: 3, Magic Points: 40, Movement: 4m, Strike Rank: +22

Legendary Abilities: Empathic Wound, Heroic Aura, Immortal, Legendary Love (Aubec), Tireless

Skills: Dodge 60%, Infl uence 100%, Language (Common) 100%, Language (High Speech) 80%, Language (Low Speech) 100%, Lore (Law) 100%, Lore (Million Spheres) 90%, Perception 100%, Persistence 100%, Resilience 90%, Seduction 99%

RQII - Elric Corebook

Primary: STR 12, CON 20, SIZ 10, INT 21, POW 21, DEX 13, CHA 21

Secondary: Combat Actions 3, Damage Modifier —, Magic Points 21, Movement 8m, Strike Rank + 17

Heroic Abilities: Empathic Wound, Heroic Aura, Legendary Love (Various Heroes), Tireless

Gifts & Compulsions: Automaton (Flying Bird, Golem), Eternal Life, Sanctuary (Castle Kaneloon), Youth

Skills: Command 95%, Evade 60%, Influence 100%, Insight 90%, Language (Common) 100%, Language (High Speech) 80%, Language (Low Speech) 100%, Lore (Law) 100%, Lore (Million Spheres) 90%, Perception 100%, Persistence 100%, Resilience 90%, Seduction 99%

I don't want to post anymore in case I get into trouble...but so the key variances are POW, Gifts, & a few skills, something I would expected to remain constant, if you know what I mean?

EDIT: Has anyone used some of the Elric demons as lesser elder gods, gret ones and such-like?

The reason why Myshella varies so much between MRQ1 Elric and MRQ2 Elric is because, in MRQ2 Elric, we changed the cap on increasing characteristics. Therefore all statistics needed to be recalculated to reflect this rule change. We also introduced some new gifts, and altered how some gifts work.

[rogerd]

The reason why Myshella varies so much between MRQ1 Elric and MRQ2 Elric is because, in MRQ2 Elric, we changed the cap on increasing characteristics. Therefore all statistics needed to be recalculated to reflect this rule change. We also introduced some new gifts, and altered how some gifts work.

Just for clarity are those the gifts regarding partonage? Whether Law, Chaos etc?

[Chaot]

So it worked okay then?

It works ok if you keep it as just a guideline. A straight translation is going to give different results because there are different assumptions built into the ruleset. Still, keep in mind what you want the write up to do in game and adjust as needed and you should be fine.

[rogerd]

It works ok if you keep it as just a guideline. A straight translation is going to give different results because there are different assumptions built into the ruleset. Still, keep in mind what you want the write up to do in game and adjust as needed and you should be fine.

Cool, thanks mate.

[lawrence.whitaker]

Just for clarity are those the gifts regarding partonage? Whether Law, Chaos etc?

Yes.

[seneschal]

Guilty, Your Honour.

My defense is that I used to play GURPS and got tired of mute one-eyed albinos with

lots of odious habits and a fear of preferably extinct animals who used the character

points from their mostly meaningless disadvantages to buy superhuman abilities. I like

it that BRP does not support that kind of boring munchkinism and prefer normal human

characters anyways.

Hero System emphasized that a "Disadvantage" that doesn't actually cause the character problems isn't. The GM is supposed to bring home that mute, one-eyed albino's inconveniences on a regular basis -- people react badly to his appearance, he can't explain things to the police, he can't shoot straight during the resulting firefight with the cops without binocular vision, etc. On the other hand, sometimes Disadvantages would fit: Popeye is a one-eyed sailor with a short fuse; his extra points obviously went into heightened STR and CON. Kato is a vigilante crime-fighter of Filipino/Japanese descent -- operating in America around the time of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor; he needs those points for Martial Arts since sailors on leave (such as Popeye) aren't likely to offer to buy him drinks. Clark Savage, Jr., has to have his office on the 86th floor of a skyscraper because his unusual appearance makes it impossible for him to move around New York incognito; folks good and bad just won't leave him alone.

[Mankcam]

I think my one and only gripe, with being new to it so to speak, is the lack of qualitiies and drawbacks (merits and flaws etc) in my opinion.

I've used an Abilities/ Disadvantages system for years, partly based from MRQ2 Heroic Abilities, with ideas from GURPS, WoD, Savage Worlds etc. In my opinion it works quite well for flavour in particular settings, my favourites for this are Heroic Fantasy or Pulp Era Adventure. I also tend to use a version of the BRP Fate rules with these settings as well, it just adds to the cinematic feel.

For playing historic, grim, dark settings I would advise against using such mechanics however, as the emphasis is more on the 'struggle' of the characters, rather than upon the 'heroics'. So if I play BRP in Glorantha or Mythic Greece I use Abilities/Disadvantages, but if I play BRP Stormbringer, or say a BRP Game of Thrones for instance, then I'ld steer clear of such a system. If I'm playing Pulp 1920s -1950s Adventure I tend to use Abilities/ Disdvantages I have ripped off from such games like Adventure!, Thrilling Tales, or Spirit Of The Century. But if I'm running a BRP Classic Horror I use Call of Cthulhu as written. If I was to run BRP Star Wars it would definitely use a Merits/Flaws concept, but if I was to run a BRP Star Trek or a Sci-Fi Horror like Aliens/Event Horizon etc then I certainly wouldn't include them. You get the idea.

So my take on the whole Merit/Flaw concept is not an argument whether it is encouraging mini-maxing or not (it doesn't do this anymore than any other aspect of Char Gen - it's up to the GM on how to rule that). I believe it's all about what flavour you want for your game genre. It's great for pulpy adventure stuff, but the bane for historical or grim settings.

Chaosium has excelled in the later with product lines for Elric/Stormbringer, Nephillim, and Call of Cthulhu, so it's easy to see why most BRP adherents are not into the whole Merit/Flaws concept. I think Chaosium will tend to keep producing these kind of settings for BRP as it is their niche, so the system itself wouldn't be enhanced by any rules that add Merits/Flaws to these genres. Actually any steps in that direction may displace the actual feel of realism inherent in the system, which is why so many have been attracted to the system for so long I think. As it stands, BRP is a great fit for these serious settings and is a good example of mechanics married to genre in my opinion.

It will be interesting to see what comes out with 'Astounding Adventures' though, as that looks like an upcoming BRP Pulp Era supplement which will be really going against the grain of the rest of the Chaosium settings.

http://www.chaosium.com/article.php?story_id=521

Perhaps there may be some kind of Merit/Flaw concept in there, and I'ld certainly welcome it in a product like that.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Mankcam

[rust]

So my take on the whole Merit/Flaw concept is not an argument whether it is encouraging mini-maxing or not (it doesn't do this anymore than any other aspect of Char Gen - it's up to the GM on how to rule that).

While I agree with all other points of your post, I somewhat disagree with this one. At

least in all advantages / disadvantages systems I know a character can only take an

advantage if he also takes a disadvantage "of equal value". If the player wants a spe-

cific advantage required by his concept for his character, the system as written for-

ces him to also take a certain degree of disadvantage, whether it fits into the charac-

ter's concept or not. I think it is a very natural reaction to this enforced "balancing"

of the character to choose disadvantages which are basically meaningless and hardly

ever come up in play, because these are the disadvantages which least distort the

original character concept. The intention is to follow the original character concept,

but the result all too often is min/maxing, because it is built into the system - in my

view an advantages/disadvantages system is by nature a min/maxing system.

So, if I would use any special abilities in one of my campaigns, they would have to be

based on a plausible character concept only, and there would be no requirement to in

any way "balance" them with disadvantages, flaws or whatever (I find this idea of "ba-

lancing" characters rather artificial anyway - there is no balance of that kind in the real

world). If the player can tell me a good reason why his character should have the spe-

cial ability, the other players have no problem with it and it does not disrupt the inner

logic of the setting, he can have it, no strings attached.

[Mankcam]

I agree with you Rust in the fact that most Merit/Flaw systems can be detrimental in characterisation, but I think that's where GM responsibility comes into it.

It's the same for normal Char gen though - the GM decides what character level the game is set at initially in regards to beginning skill point allocation, and I think a Merit/Flaw system needs to be regulated in the same way.

For example, for pulp settings that I allow my home brew Abilities/Disadvantages I grant all player-characters one Trademark Ability of their choice as part of character creation. If they wish to choose beyond this, then yes, I do specify that they choose a Disadvantage to 'balance' it. It hasn't seemed implausible for our games, and in most cases with pulp comic book genres such as Adventure or Superhero etc you find that heroes often have an Achilles Heel or two. I do tend to rope things in though, even for these settings, often with a rule that more than two disadvantages becomes a bit ridiculous. I guess that is the kind of thing for individual GMs to decide, and in some cases if left unchecked it would run rampant (or just end up as GURPS...).

I don't mind doing it how you suggest either, although I know one of my players would have major issues with it, being a veteran of too many other systems which use a highly structured Merits/Flaws system.

I do see a role for Merits/Flaws for cinematic genres, but not for serious ones, and I guess that's really the point I was trying to emphasize. At present I'm running Call of Cthulhu again so Merits/Flaws are certainly not part of this setting at present.

Horses for courses I guess

Edited May 27, 2012 by Mankcam

[rogerd]

@ Mankcam

I'm glad we agree about using the Heroic abilities as bonuses to the character. Although having said that for some games like even a gritty feel I would include them, but only some as many are too far from what could conceivably happen I can certainly understand why you discard them. For example even in a gritty police drama someone may have the quality /traits - e.g. marksman, gaining them an advantage for shooting things, whereas having something like Lifegiver wouldn't really work. To some extent they can even help form the character's personality set too, helping some to create unique and interesting characters. So in truth it is about engaging brain and common sense, and the type of campaign the players want.

Mind you the one to break all that mould would be Alpha's which does it best to be realistic, enable odd powers while steering clear of the superhero trope so that people cannot shoot lasers fron their eyes and level a building. Now the whole universe it is set in - tends to lack that (it does include Warehouse 13 and Eureka in the same universe).

@ Rust

Probably the best system for qualities and drawbacks would be Eden - for most characters you pick 5 points, but on others you may pick up 10 - although it is not compulsory.It does have a good selection of basic ones which could be incorporated. Much like seperating off basic traits and supernatural ones, e.g., lifegiver - above which is not run-of-the-mill. Which is also why I was thinking of having one for techniques too, in accordance with Dragon Lines, and also as quite a few are purely a case of fantastical levels of skill.