BRP/D100 for kids?

[Baron]

OK thanks, will give it a look. The kid is on spring break and we just got her a new monitor, so this may be just the thing. OTOH, I don't want her to burn out on new rules systems as a result of overload, so we'll have to see.

[Mysterioso]

8 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

T&T is very unforgiving. Most fights are very lopsided. The side with the higher dice tend to slaughter the other side and there isn't much that they can do about it. It's what makes the solos so vicious. If the PC runs into an opponent with a better die total, he's toast and that's that. Not much chance of getting a lucky hit. 

Perhaps with the solo dungeons as there are only the two or three selections available.  With a DM there would be more flexibility.

[Atgxtg]

On 3/19/2016 at 8:15 AM, Mysterioso said:

Perhaps with the solo dungeons as there are only the two or three selections available.  With a DM there would be more flexibility.

Somewhat, and with the way T&T handles group combat there is a better chance to cover for a weak character. 

 

But even so, there isn't much you can do in T&T if the opponent outclasses the PCs. 

[Mysterioso]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

Somewhat, and with the way T&T handles group combat there is a better chance to cover for a weak character. 

 

But even so, there isn't much you can do in T&T if the opponent outclasses the PCs. 

If outclassed, run. (But I'd think that would be the same in most systems.)

[Atgxtg]

On 3/20/2016 at 1:21 PM, Mysterioso said:

If outclassed, run. (But I'd think that would be the same in most systems.)

Not really. The thing with T&T is that by the time you find out that you are outclassed, it's probably over.And even if it isn't, most monsters are quick. 

I think T&T is the "Beer & Pretzel" RPG. The idea of going through character like water isn't that big a deal. That's okay with the right crowd and mindset, but probabl not the sort of game I'd want to use to introduce new players, especially kids. 

[Mysterioso]

4 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Not really. The thing with T&T is that by the time you find out that you are outclassed, it's probably over.And even if it isn't, most monsters are quick. 

I think T&T is the "Beer & Pretzel" RPG. The idea of going through character like water isn't that big a deal. That's okay with the right crowd and mindset, but probabl not the sort of game I'd want to use to introduce new players, especially kids. 

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think you're being way too hard on a nice simple system that can be played by kids in late elementary school and can be put together pretty quickly if needs be for said kids.  The beer and pretzels tag is one that kept the ever more complicated D&D on top when T&T was by far the easier (and with one rule book much cheaper) system.  The system by no means has to be a meat-grinder if one does not want it to be. The basic T&T rules are available for free on DriveThruRPG.  They're also very easy to mod to say Redwall or Mouseguard type fantasy by simply switching the fantasy races for various woodland animals.  The monster rating system is simplicity itself and if there are hits the monster declines; don't run any boss monsters with full blown stats if worried about overpowering. And, if the monster is too powerful, make a roll against Dex: if successful, then run like the dickens; if not, fight another round, and then try the Dex roll again.

 

[GianniVacca]

I second T&T. I've used it repeatedly and successfully with kids, emphasising the use of Talents and keeping combat (which is lethal) for the fight against the 'boss' at the very end of the adventure.

[Atgxtg]

Do you have a link to the basic rules for free? I don't see them at DriveThruRPG.

 

Aslo, I don't recall seeing Talents in T&T. I saw them in some of the spin off products (MS&PE) but not in T&T.

[Mysterioso]

3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Do you have a link to the basic rules for free? I don't see them at DriveThruRPG.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/54407/Tunnels--Trolls-Free-Rulebook

http://www.tunnelsandtrolls.com/rulebooks/free5thedition.shtml

Aslo, I don't recall seeing Talents in T&T. I saw them in some of the spin off products (MS&PE) but not in T&T.

These were added after 5th edition based off of MS&PE.  I never used them so I'll leave GianniVacca to post more on them.

 

[Atgxtg]

Thanks. I saw a lot of stuff for T&T, but didn't see the free link.

I liked Talents in MS&PE. I think they would greatly help to flesh out T&T. I might just reverse my opinion on running T&T for kids with Talents. 

 

[GianniVacca]

Talents are basically skills. You roll 2D6, add the relevant attribute + your talent score [which is usually in the area of +1 to +6] against a set difficulty level [20, 25, 30, 35...]. If the result is larger than or equal to the difficulty level, you succeed; if it's smaller, you fail. Really simple.

Now in standard T&T you get 1 Talent per level. What I do in my games is that I allow many more Talents at start, about half a dozen. By toning down the combat element and by emphasising the use of Talents, I make T&T closer to other task resolution-based games. It works really well with kids and with players who are not big fans of combat-oriented adventures (e.g., my daughter).

[Atgxtg]

37 minutes ago, GianniVacca said:

Talents are basically skills. You roll 2D6, add the relevant attribute + your talent score [which is usually in the area of +1 to +6] against a set difficulty level [20, 25, 30, 35...]. If the result is larger than or equal to the difficulty level, you succeed; if it's smaller, you fail. Really simple.

Now in standard T&T you get 1 Talent per level. What I do in my games is that I allow many more Talents at start, about half a dozen. By toning down the combat element and by emphasising the use of Talents, I make T&T closer to other task resolution-based games. It works really well with kids and with players who are not big fans of combat-oriented adventures (e.g., my daughter).

So basically, you make it more like MS&PE? That sounds better than straight T&T, 

I think this is kinda like what happens with Call of Cthulhu. Most of CoC's fans don't actually play it as written, but instead use it as the basis for a modern day, pulp or generic horror RPG.  Likewise, basic T&T doesn't really off that much to handle things outside of combat. Just the basic saving throws. But, with Talents, you open the game up a bit. 

 

BTW, id the Deluxe rule set worth it. I got 1st and 5th Editions of T&T, and the system didn't change much over those years. Does the Deluxe rules add much? 

[GianniVacca]

20 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

BTW, is the Deluxe rule set worth it. I got 1st and 5th Editions of T&T, and the system didn't change much over those years. Does the Deluxe rules add much? 

The Deluxe ruleset is based upon the 7th edition of T&T so it is definitely worth it if you only own the 5th edition because there were already several improvements between the 5th and the 7th edition.

[Mysterioso]

To be honest, I see this the other way.  I like the simplicity of the saving roll for most everything for a game with children.  With what I see with son and his friends, if they would be ready for a RPG with skills, I'd probably not use T&T/MS&PE and would go straight to a Call of Cthulhu level of D100 (For fantasy, it sounds like from other posters' comments that would be OpenQuest).

[Atgxtg]

I suppose it depends on what you want to teach the kids. The problem I have with basic T&T is that the players don't get to make many choices about their character. Race, Class, and what weapons or spells. Characteristics are determined by random roll, and to be honest, so probably is class. Okay, you can play a 3 STR Warrior in T&T, but the odds are against such a character. 

[Jae]

There have been some great suggestions. I will try and track down a copy of Prince Valiant as it seems like a nice narrative system. I played a lot of T&T solo adventures back in the day and love them. However, I'd rather stay as close to the BRP family as possible, as my ultimate goal is to work towards playing RQ6/Mystra in a few years. Right now, I feel kind of torn between Openquest 2 and Magic World. Both are fairly rules light (but in different ways) and each has its benefits and detractions.

Btw, anyone know of any adventures that would be suitable for kids, that could be ported?

[Mysterioso]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

I suppose it depends on what you want to teach the kids. The problem I have with basic T&T is that the players don't get to make many choices about their character. Race, Class, and what weapons or spells. Characteristics are determined by random roll, and to be honest, so probably is class. Okay, you can play a 3 STR Warrior in T&T, but the odds are against such a character. 

One rolls for characteristics in BRP, no?

I think it is just a difference in degree.  With T&T, if one wants to pick a lock, saving roll against DEX or LK depending on the situation.  In BRP, it would be roll under your Pick Lock skill.  I just see BRP as things being more defined, which I don't know is the best situation with kids.

* * *

But, the question is moot, as Jae is leaning somewhere else with his choice. 

 

Edited March 28, 2016 by Mysterioso

[Atgxtg]

13 hours ago, Mysterioso said:

One rolls for characteristics in BRP, no?

Yes, but everything is determined in BRP by the characteristics.

 

13 hours ago, Mysterioso said:

I think it is just a difference in degree.  With T&T, if one wants to pick a lock, saving roll against DEX or LK depending on the situation.  In BRP, it would be roll under your Pick Lock skill. 

Exactly. And in T&T if you have a low DEX you are bad at picking lock and that's that. In BRP, skills allow a character to be good at at something despite a poor characteristic score. 

[Mysterioso]

15 hours ago, Jae said:

BTW, anyone know of any adventures that would be suitable for kids, that could be ported?

If you're comfortable converting D&D creatures (Flumph, Adherer, Grell, various Fungus, Xag-Ya, Xill, various Oozes) there is a free one-page adventure called "Dungeon from a Distant Star" by Stuart Robinson that looks like it would be great fun.  (Googling it will get you to it easy.)

Having never played D&D, I wouldn't know where to start with the conversions.

If you do convert the assorted creatures to OQ or MW, I'm sure people would be very happy to see them saved in a file here; maybe with the dungeon itself, as it is free and posted as such.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Mysterioso

[Jae]

Thanks for the link. "Dungeon from a Distant Star" does look fun.

Although, my preference (for now) is towards a BRP based game. I think the discussion here has been most helpful and there may well be a chance that I will show my son the fighting fantasy / solo T&T modules to help with his reading and sell the idea to shewhomustbeobeyed that it is good for our son's "edumacation".

I suspect part of the OSR and retro-clone popularity of recent years has been driven not only by nostalgia but by the Grognards wanting to re-create their adventures for their children. I imagine rules light versions of games/childrens rpgs will only become more popular. I'd love to see an official take on a children’s/rules light BRP that could steer the young un's away from the WotC Borg collective. Something like BRP with the stabiliser wheels on, a d100 lite or a Little Silver Book (LSB) if you will.

[Atgxtg]

Sounds like what you want is the original. 16 page, Basic Role Playing  and possibly the original Magic World, from the Worlds of Wonder boxed set. Or for kids one of the old Fantasy Grounds boxed sets would be nice, if you could find it.

 

I wonder if we could get permission to post the old 16-18 page BRP here? if Chaosium is going back to RQ2 the old 16 page book is very relevant again. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by Atgxtg

[Mysterioso]

3 hours ago, Jae said:

Thanks for the link. "Dungeon from a Distant Star" does look fun.

Although, my preference (for now) is towards a BRP based game. I think the discussion here has been most helpful and there may well be a chance that I will show my son the fighting fantasy / solo T&T modules to help with his reading and sell the idea to shewhomustbeobeyed that it is good for our son's "edumacation".

I suspect part of the OSR and retro-clone popularity of recent years has been driven not only by nostalgia but by the Grognards wanting to re-create their adventures for their children. I imagine rules light versions of games/childrens rpgs will only become more popular. I'd love to see an official take on a children’s/rules light BRP that could steer the young un's away from the WotC Borg collective. Something like BRP with the stabiliser wheels on, a d100 lite or a Little Silver Book (LSB) if you will.

Choose Your Own Adventure books are still around too to help with the reading.  We were lucky that the public library had a bunch of them. 

[TRose]

44 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Sounds like what you want is the original. 16 page, Basic Role Playing  and possibly the original Magic World, from the Worlds of Wonder boxed set. Or for kids one of the old Fantasy Grounds boxed sets would be nice, if you could find it.

 

I wonder if we could get permission to post the old 16-18 page BRP here? if Chaosium is going back to RQ2 the old 16 page book is very relevant again. 

 Since the Reprint of RQ did so well, how about a reprint of the worlds of wonder books?

[Mysterioso]

Jae: This might be of interest for developing a light D100. I personally liked his approach to clumping skills rather than splitting and splitting again. YMMV.

https://rpgplotter.wordpress.com/2010/12/11/call-of-cthulhu-redux-a-cutdown-charactersheet/

https://rpgplotter.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/cthulhu-lite-modern-and-gaslight/

 

[Chaot]

T&T is my second love.  Here's an interesting bit about combat stunts.

http://www.tunnelsandtrolls.com/articles/daretodarosavingrolls.shtml