Army of Dara Happa

[M Helsdon]

According to a search on the web, there used to be an article about the history of the Dara Happa available. It seems to have vanished. Does anyone have a copy they could send me?

Edited April 18, 2016 by M Helsdon

[Joerg]

Are these the Martin Laurie/Wesley Quadros articles on the Dara Happan military that were sort of companion pieces to the Imperial Lunar Handbook?

[Martin]

I have sent this to you

[M Helsdon]

4 hours ago, Martin said:

I have sent this to you

Thank you! Very useful.

I'm trying to gather all the (reasonably) canonical material I can about Gloranthan Warfare. So far this includes the Dragon Pass boardgame, Cults of Prax, Wyrms Footnotes, Guide to Glorantha, HeroQuest: Glorantha, Pavis:GtA, Sartar:KoH, The Coming Storm, the Moon Design website, and a couple of online essays by Sandy Petersen. Plus a few things of my own. About eighty pages so far.

So thank you, again.

Edited April 18, 2016 by M Helsdon

[Jeff]

6 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Thank you! Very useful.

I'm trying to gather all the (reasonably) canonical material I can about Gloranthan Warfare. So far this includes the Dragon Pass boardgame, Cults of Prax, Wyrms Footnotes, Guide to Glorantha, HeroQuest: Glorantha, Pavis:GtA, Sartar:KoH, The Coming Storm, the Moon Design website, and a couple of online essays by Sandy Petersen. Plus a few things of my own. About eighty pages so far.

So thank you, again.

The most important documents on Gloranthan warfare are the following:

• Dragon Pass wargame (old and new versions)
• Armies and Enemies of the Hero Wars (unpublished)
• Redline History of the Lunar Empire
• Wyrms Footnotes 15

[M Helsdon]

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

The most important documents on Gloranthan warfare are the following:

• Dragon Pass wargame (old and new versions)
• Armies and Enemies of the Hero Wars (unpublished)
• Redline History of the Lunar Empire
• Wyrms Footnotes 15

The only source I haven't used, Jeff, (too much history, not enough military content) is the Redline History.

[kaydet]

Is there a readily accessible source for the Redline History? Several sections are missing from the version posted on Glorantha.com.

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, kaydet said:

Is there a readily accessible source for the Redline History? Several sections are missing from the version posted on Glorantha.com.

I have the basic text of Wanes 0-5, and the brief paragraphs on Wane 6 and 7 (retyped one of the Wanes for Jeff a few years ago but I don't know if it is on the site).

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, kaydet said:

Is there a readily accessible source for the Redline History? Several sections are missing from the version posted on Glorantha.com.

Hmm, Wanes 1-5 start here...

http://www.glorantha.com/docs/hle-1wane/

I believe I retyped Wane 0 in 2013?

[M Helsdon]

Oh ******, I've just found Wane Zero on the wayback record.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050426083752/http://www.glorantha.com/library/history/hle-0wane.html

If I'd searched a bit more in 2013 I wouldn't have had to retype it.

Wane Six and Seven don't seem to have been published with any detail.

[kaydet]

The Zero, Second, and Fifth Wanes are missing from the Glorantha website, but it looks like they're all there on the Wayback machine. Thanks for the find, Martin.

Edited April 18, 2016 by kaydet

[M Helsdon]

7 hours ago, kaydet said:

The Zero, Second, and Fifth Wanes are missing from the Glorantha website, but it looks like they're all there on the Wayback machine. Thanks for the find, Martin.

Odd. I'm sure I found the 2nd and 5th on the Moon Design site yesterday, but it does have a large number of broken links...

[Jeff]

I asked that the Redline History be taken down as you all will have a new and updated version available soon.

[kaydet]

That sounds like good news to me. 

Martin, is your search for these articles a prelude to some wargaming in Glorantha, or just for personal interest?

[TRose]

 Im going to commit heresy here and state I never been happy with the Official information about the Lunar  Army for  couple of reasons.

 Should start by mentioning before I started  role playing , I was a miniatures gamer and still Have  HOTT?DMM armies around.

 First is the use of the term Dragoon by several Lunar units. For those who don't know Dragoon where named after a early fire arm(Dra Gunne) they used. So unless the Lunar Emire has an understanding with the Moatali , I doubt if they are using guns.

 Second was the use of Scimitar by most troops .. The scimitar is a cavalry weapon so no problem there. But heavy foot would want somethingmore hamdy and easier to swing in a formation.. For that a Greek style Kopus or Falcatta makes more sense and they have that curved blade look that Lunars love.

 Last is the percentage of cavalry in the army. For an army that supposed to rely on closed order foot, they have a cavalry percentage equal to many horse nomad armies.

[M Helsdon]

3 hours ago, kaydet said:

That sounds like good news to me. 

Martin, is your search for these articles a prelude to some wargaming in Glorantha, or just for personal interest?

I'm putting together a compendium of warfare in Glorantha, which will probably never see print. Presently working on a biography of Fazzur Wideread for an appendix.

[kaydet]

21 hours ago, TRose said:

First is the use of the term Dragoon by several Lunar units. For those who don't know Dragoon where named after a early fire arm(Dra Gunne) they used. So unless the Lunar Emire has an understanding with the Moatali , I doubt if they are using guns.

 Second was the use of Scimitar by most troops .. The scimitar is a cavalry weapon so no problem there. But heavy foot would want somethingmore hamdy and easier to swing in a formation.. For that a Greek style Kopus or Falcatta makes more sense and they have that curved blade look that Lunars love.

 Last is the percentage of cavalry in the army. For an army that supposed to rely on closed order foot, they have a cavalry percentage equal to many horse nomad armies.

To be fair, I believe a dragoon was originally a horse-borne infantryman, trained in combat both mounted and on foot. In this sense, at least, I don't think it's unseemly to have Lunar dragoons running (or riding) about in Glorantha. It is not a medieval or ancient idea, certainly, but I don't think we need to apply strict etymological rigor when giving names to unit classifications.

It's been a while since I've read much about the Lunar Army, but as I recall there isn't much to indicate that they have a (roughly) homogenous professional military based on close order infantry a la the Roman Republic after the Marian reforms. My impression of Lunar military policy is rather much more akin to the Persian Empire, where tributary states, provinces, satraps, allied kingdoms, et al, offer up heterogenous military forces that are pre-existing formations. There may certainly be elements of the Lunar Army which fight as close order infantry (Dara Happan hoplites come to mind) but I doubt it is universal.

As for the predominance of cavalry, we have to keep in mind that one of the major enemies of the empire are tribes of horse-borne nomadic warriors. Although I hesitate to make broad claims, cavalry is usually required to effectively combat other cavalry, and it makes sense that Lunar generals would cultivate a strong cavalry component.

Edited April 20, 2016 by kaydet

[M Helsdon]

2 hours ago, TRose said:

First is the use of the term Dragoon by several Lunar units. For those who don't know Dragoon where named after a early fire arm(Dra Gunne) they used.

Regarding the Red and Blue Dragoons, the term is used in the wider meaning of infantry riding horses for additional mobility.

2 hours ago, TRose said:

 Second was the use of Scimitar by most troops .. The scimitar is a cavalry weapon so no problem there. But heavy foot would want somethingmore hamdy and easier to swing in a formation.. For that a Greek style Kopus or Falcatta makes more sense and they have that curved blade look that Lunars love.

In the latest canon, scimitars have been replaced by kopis and sickle-swords; one Carmanian regiment uses rhomphaia.

2 hours ago, TRose said:

 Last is the percentage of cavalry in the army. For an army that supposed to rely on closed order foot, they have a cavalry percentage equal to many horse nomad armies.

Whilst there are many heavy and light horse units, they tend to be half the size of infantry regiments. The Lunar Army numbers 64,000 soldiers: 36,500 infantry, 18,000 cavalry, 5,750 magicians, and 3,750 siege and supply soldiers. The large number of cavalry are perhaps an outcome of the history of fighting Pentan hordes.

Edited April 19, 2016 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 6:34 PM, TRose said:

  First is the use of the term Dragoon by several Lunar units. For those who don't know Dragoon where named after a early fire arm(Dra Gunne) they used. So unless the Lunar Emire has an understanding with the Moatali , I doubt if they are using guns.

If you'd prefer a Classical term, there's dimachae, for soldiers trained to fight on foot who rode horses (a Macedonian term).

The Greek cavalry were divided into heavy cataphracti, and light, me cataphracti, with the dimachae who weren't just infantry or cavalry. There was a long history, going back to the era of Homeric warfare, to warriors riding (by horse or chariot) to fight when they dismounted, and this continued into the Classical era when hoplites could ride to the battle site, dismount, and form up in a phalanx.

Edited April 20, 2016 by M Helsdon

[TRose]

 Also there the Cohors equitata, Roman units that mixed cavalry and infantry. Also early German and Scottish cavalry fought in mixed units with each horseman having a light infantry man who fought with them. I thought the Draoons might be similar to those.

Guess I get annoyed because more then a few fantasy game toss the term Dragoon around cause its sounds cool, not knowing its meaning.

[M Helsdon]

45 minutes ago, TRose said:

 Also there the Cohors equitata, Roman units that mixed cavalry and infantry. Also early German and Scottish cavalry fought in mixed units with each horseman having a light infantry man who fought with them.

The dimachae and Lunar Dragoons are a little different because they aren't a mixed unit, but one that dismount to fight on foot.

 

47 minutes ago, TRose said:

 Guess I get annoyed because more then a few fantasy game toss the term Dragoon around cause its sounds cool, not knowing its meaning.

I recall one particularly bad fantasy novel where the author thought Dragoon comes from Dragon...