SPOILER ALERT!! The Eye of Wakboth

[Harrek]

SPOILER ALERT FOR PLAYERS!!

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The Eye of Wakboth lies under the Devil's Playground. I have read what information there is about it in River of Cradles book, glorantha wikia etc. It seems that there is not much information about it after all...

Wikia has the following information about it:

The eye of Wakboth

• It was torn from Wakboth's face during his fight with Storm Bull

• It resides beneath the Devil's Playground in the Rubble

• It lies in a pool surrounded by Ghostly Trees that feed of darkness.

• It retains a fragment of the consciousness of the Devil.

• It seeks to control chaos and the surface.

Obviously it seems to be a being of its own. What are the Ghostly Trees and why are they there? Why has it ended up three kilometers beneath the surface and how?

Has somebody used it in play? How did it work out? What kind of journey was it to reach the Eye? What did the players experience?

It is somehow connected to The Ogre Island Geyser (River of Cradles, p.131), how?

My players are going to go to destroy/investigate the Eye of Wakboth. They have already visited the tunnels/caves under the Devil's Playground thrice ( 1st time: The Devil's Playground scenario from Pavis and Big Rubble, 2nd time: when they destroyed the Krarsth temple described in the scenario, 3rd time: when they reached the Grotto of Pocharngo and simultaneously killed GimGim), so I need something new. Any insight/information would be nice. Thanks.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Harrek

[David Scott]

You might want to edit your post title to include Spoiler alert or similar, as it's part of an adventure that not everyone has done.

[Harrek]

Done. Sorry....

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Harrek said:

Obviously it seems to be a being of its own.

Yes, it is/was part of the Devil.  Therefore it is sentient, malignant, and very powerful.  I think of it like one of the deities of the Cthulhu Mythos:  mind-bending and sanity breaking.  It is like a tear in the fabric of the world - it attracts chaos to it, it reveals the Truth of Chaos in all its awesome power, and it seeks to return all around it to the nothingness of the void.

2 hours ago, Harrek said:

Why has it ended up three kilometers beneath the surface and how?

@David Scott noted the following in the thread below: " Going back to the Great Darkness, the whole of Genert's Garden was breaking apart - actually separating and floating off. Such was the death of Genert that the very land was flying apart." and "Zola Fel actively prevented Prax from breaking up he was at the edge of the void. The rest of the Wastes broke apart and drifted away"  and "...Waha's myths. He went and tied all the parts back together and grandmother Spider pulled the net tight and everything (nearly) was pulled back together at the dawn."

So, when the Eye was torn off, it ended up at the edge of the void.  When Waha gathered the pieces and Grandmother Spider wove it all into her net, that's where the Eye ended up.

 

2 hours ago, Harrek said:

What are the Ghostly Trees and why are they there?

Could be part of the Nightwood (getting awfully close to the Gods War/Great Darkness/Underworld as you approach the Eye).  Could be dead fragments of Genert's Garden.  Could be parts of Genert's Garden corrupted by the Eye.  Could be an aspect of chaotic growth formed by the Eye.  Or any number of other possibilities.  Could be the Eyelashes of the Devil.  You're close to Chaos here so they could easily warp, mutate, change, or be a number of different things simultaneously.

2 hours ago, Harrek said:

It is somehow connected to The Ogre Island Geyser (River of Cradles, p.131), how?

If it fits with your campaign, then yes.  The Eye is Chaos, and a source of chaos.  Many bizarre things may occur in and around and above it.  Maybe as the purifying water of Zola Fel approaches the Eye through cracks in the earth and reality, the Eye is so impure that it rejects all contact with such water and drives it back to and through the surface.

2 hours ago, Harrek said:

so I need something new. Any insight/information would be nice.

The Eye is likely to have servitors.  Perhaps it is assembling a chaotic horde.  Perhaps it is watching over the construction of an alien temple of bizarre form.  Perhaps it is spawning little eyeballs - replicas of itself, but pulsing with tentacles and oozing chaotic goo wherever they travel.

This is the heart of Horror, the 'foulest' part of the Devil and therefore the most mind-bending and insidious terror.  Maybe it infects those who gaze upon it with madness, phobias, or chaotic features. 

[MOB]

3 hours ago, Harrek said:

My players are going to go to destroy/investigate the Eye of Wakboth. 

They can certainly investigate it, but they probably can't destroy it. The Cthulhu Mythos analogy is an apt one.

3 hours ago, Harrek said:

Has somebody used it in play? How did it work out? What kind of journey was it to reach the Eye? What did the players experience?

A descent to the Eye of Wakboth features in the heroic efforts by some of the leaders of Sun County and Pavis to break the Great Winter (1621-22). Even deploying the holiest relic from the Sun Dome Temple, the Goldenblood Light, the actual blood shed by the god Yelmalio in the Darkness, was not enough to destroy the Eye, only temporarily blind it.

[Steve]

I hate to be a party-pooper, but what makes your heroes think they stand any chance of coming into contact with part of the Devil and not being at the minimum driven insane, or more likely just instantly killed? This sounds like only something that the very most powerful of Heroes/demigods would stand any chance at.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Steve

[jajagappa]

2 minutes ago, Steve said:

but what makes your heroes think they stand any chance of coming into contact with part of the Devil and not being at the minimum driven insane, or more likely just instantly killed?

But, on the other hand, the heroes don't know that.

Generally, we have the sense that the Eye cannot move by itself.  But I'm sure there's a Hero Wars plot by the Eye to return its gaze upon the World, and obliterate it.

So what can the Eye do? 

An Eye is about Sight, and I think both Truth and Illusion in what is seen.

It can cast its gaze about, and do various things to those who are seen by it or gaze upon it. It possesses Truths that can drive any living thing Mad, or destroy the minds of the sentient.  It possesses powers of Illusion, so that one might "see" the Eye, and destroy it, yet it was only an Illusion masking the Truth of the Eye.  Its gaze can corrupt what it sees:  physically (as in chaotic features or blindness; or turning the clothes, armor, and arms of heroes into sentient, hostile creatures or eroding them into puddles of goo or gorp), magically (creating forms similar to the CoC Colors out of Space or Crawling Ones out of the elements of the nearby earth; or activating the ghostly trees; or transporting the heroes into a portion of the Gods War such as the dissolution of Genert's Garden), or psychically (it could implant an image and feeling into a hero, or the hero's allied spirits(!) - using the new RQG rules this might mean Devotion(the Eye) or Loyalty(Servitors of the Eye) or Fear(eyes), etc.). 

[Harrek]

Thanks for the already plenty replies. The answers gave me some "nice" ideas. The Call of Cthulhu books have already been in use when I have been planning this adventure...

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

@David Scott noted the following in the thread below: " Going back to the Great Darkness, the whole of Genert's Garden was breaking apart - actually separating and floating off. Such was the death of Genert that the very land was flying apart." and "Zola Fel actively prevented Prax from breaking up he was at the edge of the void. The rest of the Wastes broke apart and drifted away"  and "...Waha's myths. He went and tied all the parts back together and grandmother Spider pulled the net tight and everything (nearly) was pulled back together at the dawn."

This is what I like in Glorantha: even if something seems to be totally absurd there's still a coherent, rationalized explanation for that.

I also like the the Zola Fel explanation about the Ogre Island Geyser.

1 hour ago, Steve said:

I hate to be a party-pooper, but what makes your heroes think they stand any chance of coming into contact with part of the Devil and not being at the minimum driven insane, or more likely just instantly killed? This sounds like only something that the very most powerful of Heroes/demigods would stand any chance at.

The characters are the number 1 heroes in Pavis/Prax.  Certainly powerful heroes (in our campaign equal with Argrath), but not demigods yet. Whatever that means They have done many heroquests over the years, have multiple hero powers against chaos and to protect their mind and soul, they have been in Thanatari hell and survived etc. The campaign is ten years old in real time and we are playing Hero Wars big time now. The reason for the characters to go there is not to see some nice things, but to do it as an inescapable last option. 

I guess I'll go and take the good old Call of Cthulhu madness charts in my hand....

[soltakss]

2 hours ago, MOB said:

They can certainly investigate it, but they probably can't destroy it. The Cthulhu Mythos analogy is an apt one.

I absolutely hate the idea of something too powerful for PC Heroes to destroy.

If PCs have reached the level of Argrath, Harrek and co, there is no reason why they cannot do heroic or godlike things.

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

So, when the Eye was torn off, it ended up at the edge of the void.  When Waha gathered the pieces and Grandmother Spider wove it all into her net, that's where the Eye ended up.

A slight digression - in Praxian mythology, Waha made the net. He got most of the big stuff joined into it (and made a few mistakes like Bigglestone). When Grandmother Spider pulls the net closed, it scoops up the rest with of course some being missed as it was outside, some falling through. Grandmother Spider is the bead that closes the bag (net). The eye is likely one of the things scooped although other sources say at slithered away.

There is also a possible counterpart to the Eye of Wakboth - the Incorruptible Eye of Genert. This was cut from the Tales Praxian Specials and was part of the info that came from Chaosium for those issues. Here's the version i'm using:

Quote

The Incorruptible Eye of Genert. This largest surviving piece of Genert is said to have had sight beyond mortal ken. Many know the tales of those who possessed the Eye; Darvic Spirit Burner who walked with Waha after replacing his own eye with it, the Darkness over the Paps clan whose medicine bundle protected it for five generations, and Nerela Queen of the Sables who received it from her Khan as a wedding gift. All know that the Eye eventually turns the holders to a single-minded task, and then slips out of history once again. None know what form, size or powers it will have when it returns again.

 

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, Steve said:

I hate to be a party-pooper, but what makes your heroes think they stand any chance of coming into contact with part of the Devil and not being at the minimum driven insane, or more likely just instantly killed? This sounds like only something that the very most powerful of Heroes/demigods would stand any chance at.

When the Devil returns at the end of the Third Age, and the Heroes have to save the World again, there's a good chance it will get destroyed. Likely you will get to play it out in the God's War expansion pack - Gods War Onslaught Third Age.

To be honest my players would likely find a way of disposing of it. They've done stuff I never expected (They caused the Dragonrise!).

Edited August 4, 2017 by David Scott

[soltakss]

In my current campaign, Shan Agar, one of the PCs, took a pearl from the head of an NPC. The pearl acted as an eye and granted Farsee and Second Sight. With a bit of investigation, she found the eye could be used to remote view. However, it gave the PC a vision of a dark pool surrounded by ghostly white trees. As she is a shaman, that intrigued her, but she managed to roll 01 on attemnpting to control the eye and saw Genert's Eye instead, which was lucky as the PCs were HeroQuesting for parts of Genert. Looking into Wakboth's Eye would probably have sent her mad, or would have caused some problems. The Second Age River Voices, in my campaign, included one who had looked into Wakboth's Eye and caused his eyes to bleed acid, blinding him but giving him sight, also sending him mad. Shan Agar subsequently looked into The Void in order to bring back Genert's Soul and her pearl eye was replaced by a mini Void, so she now has the equivalent of a non-chaotic, non-wailing Wailing Void instead of an eye. 

You can have a lot of fun with Wakboth's Eye.

Seers can use it to gain abilities, in the same way as Middle Earth has a Palantir, but they are drawn to Wakboth's Eye, in the same way as being drawn to Sauron's Eye.

Ogres are HeroQuesting to find Wakboth's Eye, in order to resurrect Wakboth, in the same way as my PCs HeroQuested to bring back Genert. Obviously, bringing back Wakboth would be worse than bringing back Genert. Having said that, both gods returning would cause wars to erupt.

I played that Wakboth's Eye cries occasionally, this causes the Gorp Geyser from the River of Cradles supplement. What causes Wakboth's Eye to cry is currently unknown.

Our River Voices had a Black Barge, a funeral barge from the Styx, that they found in Snakepipe Hollow. This had the properties that it could not be sunk or overturned when on underground water and that it could slip between small cracks, smaller than the barge. They used the Black Barge on a HeroQuest to travel down to Wakboth's Eye, slipping through the various cracks in the ground and following the course of the Gorp Geyser. They met more and more chaos until they reached Wakboth's Eye. When they got there, they didn't want to mess with it, so simply stopped the Gorp Geyser, leaving the Eye intact.

 

[Harrek]

2 hours ago, MOB said:

A descent to the Eye of Wakboth features in the heroic efforts by some of the leaders of Sun County and Pavis to break the Great Winter (1621-22). Even deploying the holiest relic from the Sun Dome Temple, the Goldenblood Light, the actual blood shed by the god Yelmalio in the Darkness, was not enough to destroy the Eye, only temporarily blind it.

What's the source for this information?

[soltakss]

37 minutes ago, Harrek said:

The characters are the number 1 heroes in Pavis/Prax.  Certainly powerful heroes (in our campaign equal with Argrath), but not demigods yet. Whatever that means They have done many heroquests over the years, have multiple hero powers against chaos and to protect their mind and soul, they have been in Thanatari hell and survived etc. The campaign is ten years old in real time and we are playing Hero Wars big time now. The reason for the characters to go there is not to see some nice things, but to do it as an inescapable last option. 

Sounds like our campaign. I might ask you for some ideas, as I am running out of things for the PCs to do.

They are currently in Dorastor, building up their reputation before approaching Ralzakark and forcing him to reveal secrets about Nysalor, Gbaji and Arkat. They defeated the Hand of Gbaji, that had the Adamantine Claws, so freed two grandsons of Arkat, a human Humakti and a Troll, who have gone to ralios to bring back Arkat. The PCs want to find Arkat first,l so they can make him their bitch.

However, I am running out of ideas. They have done a lot of the things from King of Sartar (Dragonrise, becoming King of Sartar, defeating the Crimson Bat) and are waiting for the Lunar counterattack.

[soltakss]

1 minute ago, Harrek said:

What's the source for this information?

I would guess it is part of MOB's future Sun County timeline material.

[Harrek]

6 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Ogres are HeroQuesting to find Wakboth's Eye, in order to resurrect Wakboth, in the same way as my PCs HeroQuested to bring back Genert. Obviously, bringing back Wakboth would be worse than bringing back Genert. Having said that, both gods returning would cause wars to erupt.

We have the same process going on in our campaign...I really wait to see the outcome

[jajagappa]

24 minutes ago, soltakss said:

I absolutely hate the idea of something too powerful for PC Heroes to destroy.

Agree.  But, this is not just some gem or jewel.  The Eye is clearly sentient and equivalent to at least a demigod in power.  It will work mightily to protect itself and rejoin the rest of Wakboth including warping heroes to its will, driving them mad, corrupting them with evil instincts, etc.

And if they overcome those factors and DO destroy it... It WILL have ripple effects.  The net of Grandmother Spider will be rent and torn, fragments of the Wastes escape or disappear, the Eye is not destroyed but divided into myriad parts all like its 'parent', enough chaotic power is unleashed to reassemble a Sky Terror, and perhaps as well the heroes have gone so far into Chaos and the Gods War that they find themselves somewhere else (perhaps on one of those fragments of the Wastes, perhaps in a Hidden Green, perhaps in the Krjalki Bog or the Plateau of Statues, perhaps trapped in the Gods War or in Hell...).

[jajagappa]

14 minutes ago, soltakss said:

They are currently in Dorastor, building up their reputation before approaching Ralzakark and forcing him to reveal secrets about Nysalor, Gbaji and Arkat. They defeated the Hand of Gbaji, that had the Adamantine Claws, so freed two grandsons of Arkat, a human Humakti and a Troll, who have gone to ralios to bring back Arkat. The PCs want to find Arkat first,l so they can make him their bitch.

However, I am running out of ideas. They have done a lot of the things from King of Sartar (Dragonrise, becoming King of Sartar, defeating the Crimson Bat) and are waiting for the Lunar counterattack.

I don't know if you want a new thread for this, but some thoughts.

One of the Arkats (or maybe several of them - they return at least 5 times) becomes aware of their meddling and destruction and begins hunting them.  One of those Arkats is Harrek.  It's not the Lunar counterattack that comes first, but the Arkati attack including the dark warriors of Humakt and the uz.  And then the Lunars strike while they are mired in feud with Arkat.

Meanwhile, Dorasta reveals that she may know how to find Arkat.  But one of them must prove their worth to marry her.  And she wants significant gifts (three, of course).  Maybe they must root out the Poisonthorn Elves and bring to her the Thorned Gem/Seed.  Maybe they must bring her the Crown of Kero Fin (forcing conflict with the King of Sartar).  Maybe she wants the Loincloth of Genert (or Tada) to restore her ancient Fertility.

[soltakss]

Sure, but the PC Heroes can fix that when it happens.

[jajagappa]

1 minute ago, soltakss said:

Sure, but the PC Heroes can fix that when it happens.

True, but to fix it, they must destroy something they love, and more.

[Harrek]

47 minutes ago, David Scott said:

When the Devil returns at the end of the Third Age, and the Heroes have to save the World again, there's a good chance it will get destroyed. Likely you will get to play it out in the God's War expansion pack - Gods War Onslaught Third Age.

When this will be out?

[jajagappa]

18 minutes ago, Harrek said:

When this will be out?

I think that's a rather speculative note.  They need to get through delivering the Gods War first.  

[MOB]

5 hours ago, soltakss said:

I absolutely hate the idea of something too powerful for PC Heroes to destroy.

If PCs have reached the level of Argrath, Harrek and co, there is no reason why they cannot do heroic or godlike things.

That's why I said probably.

4 hours ago, jajagappa said:

True, but to fix it, they must destroy something they love, and more.

I like the idea of portentous and unintended consequences if they did so, definitely not all for the good: a bit like the Lunars achieving total victory at Whitewall and bringing on the Windstop/Great Winter.

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

What's the source for this information?

I would like to say Wyrms Footnotes #20, but that wouldn't be helpful...

Edited August 4, 2017 by MOB

[soltakss]

13 hours ago, MOB said:

I would like to say Wyrms Footnotes #20, but that wouldn't be helpful...

We used to quote Wyrms Footnotes #15 for any unascribed rules or references, but then they brought it out, so Wyrms Footnotes #20 would do, until that comes out, of course.

[Ian Cooper]

13 hours ago, MOB said:

I would like to say Wyrms Footnotes #20, but that wouldn't be helpful...

Batter up! :-)