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KPhan2121

Alternative Ways for Autofire.

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I've never liked the way the Autofire rules functioned. I think it makes autofire weapons overpowered, the accuracy bonus to hit makes it too powerful. I thought automatic fire makes you less accurate. 

Right now I'm using my own houserule where you don't get an accuracy bonus from autofire and your skill is halved if you fire more than 3 rounds (This can be different for different weapons). 

Do you guys have any alternative houserules for autofire?

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I've always liked how the Hero System did it where it provided a bonus and hits were added based on success, but the bonus was of a size that it only provided a small increase in the odds of hitting with one bullet at the cost of using a lot of ammo. Range was also cut in half (penalties apply at half the usual range).

 

HERO is a 3d6 roll system, so not directly transferrable to BRP, but not hard to figure out a conversion of the idea. 

Against a single target

3 round burst +1

5 round burst +2

10 round burst +4

For every 2 pts your roll exceed success you score an additional hit, so a character with a to hit of 12 fires a 10 round burst at a single target for a +4 bonus (16 or less is a success). They roll a 13 so score 2 hits (one for 16, a second at 14), the other 8 rounds continue downrange and have a chance of hitting other targets in their path.

Alternately a 10 round burst can be spread. Instead of getting a bonus to hit the shooter may attack multiple targets. Each hex (2 meters) results in -1 to hit. The same hit for each 2 points the roll makes it by still applies. No target can be hit more than once.

 

I've tinkered with the idea but don't have anything handy to say exactly what worked. I'd think a simple +1% per bullet, and every 5% extra success = an additional hit would work against a single target, but I'd probably give a 3 rd burst +5% since that is supposed to be the ideal burst. Multiple projectile rounds (duplex rounds, shot shells) could use a similar rule. 

 

Autofire doesn't inherently make a weapon less accurate, but recoil spoils the aim of handheld weapons, the bigger the round the greater the recoil which is why full power rifles quickly fell out of favor to be replaced by intermediate rounds (5.56mm etc). There was a .22LR SMG marketed to police at one time, the idea being the .22 has little recoil so lots of hits could be made countering the relatively weak rounds effect.

Similarly aircraft guns have high rates of fire to increase the odds of a hit lots, of rounds downrange adds to the chances of a few hits. Mounted in an aircraft recoil isn't to big of an issue. 

Many auto weapons do have traits that result in a less precision weapon, open bolts being a good example used with many full auto weapons.  

 

Recoil is certainly something that could be incorporated to limit the effective length of bursts. Single shot penalties for open bolt weapons could be used to penalize using such a weapon for precision shots (A STEN is a poor snipers weapon).

 

 

Edited by Toadmaster
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I kinda like it. I think if we try to adapt it to the rules to the BRP system, we'd have to make any +/- 1 be +/- 5 in BRP.

So 3 round would be +5

5 round +10

10 round +20

Every 10 below the chance to hit  nets an extra hit.

As for the the handheld weapons being less accurate with autofire, maybe have like a recoil rating for them? Where if you fire more rounds than the recoil rating, the accuracy bonus turns to a penalty?

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Yeah, that is kind of what I was thinking for recoil. The real world factors that concern recoil are the energy of the round, the weight of the weapon and how it is supported (pistol, rifle, bipod, tripod etc). A full auto 9mm pistol is practically uncontrollable even with a 2-3 round burst, but a fullsize 9mm SMG with a shoulder stock can effectively control 5-10 round bursts, and a GPMG on a bipod using a powerful full size rifle cartridge can be effective with 10-20 round bursts.  

Probably base recoil on max damage, then probably use weight of the weapon and strength to counter the recoil. A shoulder stock, bipod, muzzle brake etc would factor in their someplace.

Just off the top of my head I'm thinking something like this:

Take a German MP-18 in 9mm Luger, which does 1d10 damage. So a recoil factor of 10 (max damage), an MP18 weighs about 9 lbs, so lets assume a PC with a strength of 11+9(wt of the gun) a PC's recoil absorption would be 20, lets say a shoulder stock cuts the recoil score by 1/2, so now it is 5 vs the PCs recoil score of 20, so he can fire 4 rounds before taking recoil penalties. This seems about right for a "normal" person, in the real world SMGs were usually limited to 3-5 round bursts, with up to 10 being "in the area" and more than that effectively wasted shots.

Same character with a full auto Broomhandle Mauser, 7.63mm Mauser for 1d10 damage, recoil of 10, the Mauser only weighs a bit over 2 lbs. The PC now only has his strength of 11 + 2 (wt) to counter recoil. Without a shoulder stock the PC will take recoil penalties after the first or maybe second round is fired (10-13 round up or down?), with the detachable shoulder stock recoil would drop to 5, so the gun now becomes manageable for 2-3 round bursts but quickly becomes unmanageable beyond that.  

Those examples seem to fit what I know of reality, so seems like that would be a good start to tinker from.

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Hmm, it seems a bit complicated since it requires a good knowledge of firearms and you'd have to calculate it out. Also i think it would break down when you get to Advanced Firearms. Like a laser rifle with recoil.

I personally think that giving different weapons an arbitrary but reasonable number of rounds a weapon can fire before recoil imposes accuracy penalties is a simplier solution. Like a medium pistol fires 2 rounds before recoil sets in and an SMG can do 6 rounds.

On another topic, these alternative autofire rules could also work for semi-auto guns. It would certainly be easier than having to roll for each seperate shot.

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You could cut out the bit about STR if you feel it to complex. Easy enough to compare weight to damage to provide a recoil factor for the weapon. In the above examples the MP40 would work out to 10/9 =1, while the Mauser works out to 5 (10/2) so a much higher penalty. You are going to have damage and weight of the gun so nothing really esoteric there. Just have to figure out what to do with the recoil factor if not compare it to STR.

HERO had a double fire rule in the 3rd edition for semi-auto weapons and revolvers, this basically just allowed a second attack roll with a penalty. Since HERO actions represent 3-6 seconds for "normals" we tried using the autofire rules for semi-autos, basically differing by not getting the bonus. It worked fine as an option.

We even went a little nuts at one point breaking it down to manual repeaters, bolt actions 2 shots, pump and lever actions 3, semi autos 4-5. That didn't work as well and wasn't really worth the effort.

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Well the problem is that you'd have to look it up during play, it's much better to use generic versions of the guns which just have the stats there for you. 

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The idea that auto fire makes a gun less accurate doesn’t take into account that the additional recoil from firing the extra rounds only comes after you’ve already fired the first round. That first round can be just as accurate as a single shot, but then you have the extra chance that one of the later rounds might hit even if the first one didn’t.

Simon Hibbs

 

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On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 2:51 PM, KPhan2121 said:

Well the problem is that you'd have to look it up during play, it's much better to use generic versions of the guns which just have the stats there for you. 

I just figured you do it once and write it down on the character sheet.

 

On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 8:05 AM, simonh said:

The idea that auto fire makes a gun less accurate doesn’t take into account that the additional recoil from firing the extra rounds only comes after you’ve already fired the first round. That first round can be just as accurate as a single shot, but then you have the extra chance that one of the later rounds might hit even if the first one didn’t.

Simon Hibbs

 

Right and there were a number of small arms experiments during the cold war specifically looking at increased odds of a hit from short bursts or multiple projectile rounds. A variety of concepts, rapid 2-4 round bursts, duplex and triplex rounds (2 or 3 projectiles in one case), flechettes and shotguns were all considered. The idea being to get the rounds down range before the recoil impulse hit the shooter and disturbed their aim.

Lots of projects that went nowhere but the H&K G11 with its ultra fast (2100 rpm) 3 rd burst mode and the various full-auto shotguns are probably the best known developments from the many programs.    

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On 11/8/2017 at 2:22 PM, Toadmaster said:

I just figured you do it once and write it down on the character sheet.

It's alot of prep work for little reward. I'm not sure you understand that having to use specific guns would mean having to stat out all of the guns that would be avaliable in a given setting.

For example if I were to run a game set in ww2 Africa I would have to do alot of research for one small aspect of the game. Would most players really care about the differences in recoil between two otherwise similar guns? I think the most I'd do is look up magazine size.

On the other note, how would it work for science fiction guns? I guess we could pull wikia information in an established setting.

For example, the E-11 blaster rifle weighs 2.6 kg that would weigh about 5-6 lbs. The recoil score is max damagen so 19, but with folding stock it's 10. Now I gotta do the A280, then the DL-44, then all of other guns that I want in the game.

Then you have to keep track of the recoil comp for every NPC since they have a different number of shots they can fire before recoil sets in.

The easiest solution would be to just pick out an arbitrary but reasonable number of shots a gun could fire without recoil penalty.

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I do stat out all the guns in a given setting, but understand many don't.

Really in game terms Browning Hi-Power, Walther P-38 and Beretta M92 vs generic 9mm handgun doesn't matter much in game terms unless you have players who actually care about the minor differences.

Having a basic rule of thumb for machine pistols vs smgs, vs assault rifles should work fine if that is the level of detail you and your players like. 

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I'll probably do like 3 shots for automatic weapons, 2 for semiauto and 1 for everything else before recoil sets in.

Wanna talk about suppression? I can't find a rule for it, but I'm thinking of a resistance roll with POW vs Number of Bullets fired. But that might be a bit unwieldy during the game.

Edited by KPhan2121

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I would like to suggest that people take a look at the new Delta Green.  They seem to have a decent system for firearms and automatic weapons.

SDLeary

Edited by SDLeary

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Actually that sounds like a great idea. I may be remembering the rule wrong, you would spend a sanity point in order to remain calm under fire, otherwise you have to dive for cover.

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12 minutes ago, KPhan2121 said:

Actually that sounds like a great idea. I may be remembering the rule wrong, you would spend a sanity point in order to remain calm under fire, otherwise you have to dive for cover.

Yes.

Also, auto fire has a "lethality rating". If you hit, roll under the lethality rating and the target dies, otherwise roll damage as normal. No figuring out how many round hit, separate damage, etc. 3-round bursts are at a single target. Longer bursts give an area effect. And so on. 

And not firearms related, but the integration of UA style mental effects while still using a SAN based system is excellent as well.

SDLeary

Edited by SDLeary

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FASA's Behind Enemy Lines had a nice rule for suppression fire. I particularly liked it because it was based on the volume of fire, so even one guy armed with a bolt action rifle could suppress an area, but a squad of Russian's armed with smgs would be much more effective. It had both a psychological effect as well as a chance of injury for anyone in the area of effect.

It's been awhile so I'll have to dig up the game and see how they did it.  

Edited by Toadmaster

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Another in a long line of house rules I've used so long that I forgot it was a houserule:

Add +20 to chance to hit

Success hits with 1 round

Special success hits with a random number (3 round burst 1d3, 10 round burst roll 1d10 etc)

Critical success every round hits

 

I even drew up a list of burst size for different weapons, but I don't think that I've ever used it (one more thing to try and find in the excitement of an RPG combat, so one more thing left in a pile of papers)

 

The whole point of auto fire is to increase the chance of hitting a moving target by a minimally qualified shooter at least once rather than peppering it (that's why fighter aircraft and ship CIWS often have auto cannons with insanely high rates of fire to try and compensate for the speed and changes of firer and target and why modern* infantry tactics talk about beaten zones rather than trying to pick off individuals. There's also a psychological factor here: it is quite hard to get one human to deliberately aim at and kill another one)

A really skilled shooter will get the whole burst on target (I remember my Sgt demonstrating by putting a whole clip into the centre ring on fully automatic after my division were congratulating ourselves for managing to get our (5) rounds semi-automatic into the same qualifying ring and thinking that we were all now fully paid up marksmen). But I don't think that there is any need to go the GURPS route with many new rules and modifiers; the degrees of success mechanic already covers that.

*I say modern, the last one I read was 20 odd years ago, so things may well have changed

 

The engaged by fire point is an interesting one, inspired by watching Luke and Leia in their shoot out with Stormtroopers in the Death Star I used the PenDragon style opposed roll for firefights (the idea being that each side is trying to keep the other side's head down and prevent them shooting accurately as much as they are attempting to actually hit them) and it sort of works.

Edited by Al.
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17 hours ago, Al. said:

Another in a long line of house rules I've used so long that I forgot it was a houserule:

Add +20 to chance to hit

Success hits with 1 round

Special success hits with a random number (3 round burst 1d3, 10 round burst roll 1d10 etc)

Critical success every round hits

I somewhat like this, but not the +20 to hit. Perhaps +10% for a three round, +5 for a 5 round; assuming of course handheld weapons... bipods, tripods, pintles reducing or negating the penalty.

Also, AFAICT, bursts over 5 rounds tend to be for suppression fire (or at least they are supposed to be), and I think the lethality rating and the area effect from Delta Green for such weapons fits better.

SDLeary

 

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6 hours ago, SDLeary said:

I somewhat like this, but not the +20 to hit. Perhaps +10% for a three round, +5 for a 5 round; assuming of course handheld weapons... bipods, tripods, pintles reducing or negating the penalty.

Also, AFAICT, bursts over 5 rounds tend to be for suppression fire (or at least they are supposed to be), and I think the lethality rating and the area effect from Delta Green for such weapons fits better.

SDLeary

 

I chose a static +20 simply because it has form (the Ship rules in Elric! give a flat +20 to Sailing skill for the faster boat).

The spirit of that rule also appeals to me. I have no doubt that more complexity might lead to more believability.

 

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I have read this thread with some interest and have some thoughts on the subject.  As a 3-Gun and IDPA shooter, I can tell you that Recoil is a thing and that Automatic Fire is much less accurate (and therefore should not provide a bonus to hit) than fast Semi-Automatic fire.  I have a couple of ideas that I have garnered from a few different game systems which might add a touch of realism to BRP.   I have been considering these ideas for CoC but haven't gotten around to it yet.

RECOIL:

    Twilight2000 V2.2 had the best idea on how to handle this.  They gave every weapon a Recoil Number that was subtracted from STR.  If the number was less than STR, then NO PENALTY was assessed.  It the Recoil was higher than STR, then a penalty was assessed equal to the difference.  When assessing penalties, Recoil totals FOR EVERY SHOT were added if multiple shots were taken with a weapon during the combat round. 

        To do this in BRP, you could just Google the formula (commonly available) for Recoil Energy for a given caliber and weapon type (rifle, pistol, shotgun) and use those Recoil Energies to build a chart to compare STR to.  It should be noted that some calibers such as 10 Gauge, .338 Lapua, .50 BMG, and .416 Rigby (just to name a few) will have Recoil values that even exceed a STR of 21.  This means that even the strongest character is looking at a penalty for shooting these calibers.  The Recoil value for Automatic fire would be MULTIPLIED by the number of rounds in a burst.   This alone would make Automatic fire less accurate.  I would modify the Recoil Value of a weapon by several factors:

  • Folding Stocks:  The "wobble" inherent in folding stocks will INCREASE Recoil.
  • Compensators:  The various makes of compensator will help REDUCE Recoil.
  • Semi-Automatic Actions:  These absorb either gas from the firing or actual Recoil Energy to "function" the rifle or pistol.  This would REDUCE Recoil.
  • Open Bolt Automatic Weapons:  The "back-and-forth" cycling of open-bolt "slam fire" causes a disruption of the sights which will INCREASE Recoil (overcoming the benefits of Semi-Automatic functioning).
  • Closed Bolt Automatic Weapons:  Weapons like the MP5, MPK, UMP, and most Assault Rifles will fire from a closed bolt.  This means that the bullet has left the barrel before the action starts to cycle.  These weapons would see a REDUCTION in Recoil during auto fire.
  • Forward Grips:  These help hold down muzzle climb and would REDUCE Recoil.
  • Bipods and Tripods:  These both stabilize a weapon and add weight to it (which also reduces recoil).   This will REDUCE Recoil.
  • Sound Suppressors (aka Silencers to the uninitiated):  These will often REDUCE Recoil as they slow down the escaping barrel gasses to subsonic velocities (to reduce the effects of sound).    

These are just a few of the Recoil Modifiers that can be used. 

Bracing A Weapon:  A pistol may be held with two hands and a shooter may "tie himself" into a rifle sling in order to reduce the Recoil Value of the weapon in question.  I would allow an increase in STR of 1 for the purposes of Recoil Control. 

Rate Of Fire:   

      Automatic Weapons have variable rates of fire.  An experienced shooter will often fire a burst lasting between 1/2 A SECOND and 1 SECOND.  Any more and "muzzle climb" will pull the weapon off target.  Thus a weapon's "practical rate of fire" will be much less than its "cyclic rate."  An easy way to determine a given weapon's rate of fire BASED ON EFFECTIVE FIRE RATES would be to simply divide its Cyclic Rate by 100.   This formula produces a 6/10ths of a Second Burst.  Thus an AK with a 600 rpm Cyclic Rate would have a ROF of 6 bullets.  The Thompson M1 would have a ROF of 7 (700rpm Cyclic Rate).  An M3 "Grease Gun" with a Cyclic Rate of 450 rpm would have a ROF of 4.5 (you can choose to round either way).  This helps reduce the number of bullets fired to a more manageable level while preserving realistic weapon behavior. 

Varying ROF:

     Shooters may choose to fire a "short, controlled burst."  This will HALVE BOTH THE ROF AND THE RECOIL of the weapon.  This is done to conserve ammo or reduce To Hit Penalties.  Shooters may also choose to fire a "long, controlled burst."  This will DOUBLE BOTH ROF AND THE RECOIL of the weapon.  This is done to ensure that a target (or targets) is thoroughly bracketed by auto fire.

Managing Multiple Shots During Play:

     As you may have guessed,  this set of rules will have you rolling for an "attack" with EACH ROUND in a Burst.  To manage this, I figure out all of the modifiers and then divide the total by 10.  I then round all fractions down because auto fire is generally less accurate than semi-automatic fire.  This is the new chance to hit using 1D10's (which we tend to have more of).  Thus, if a player's modified chance to hit is 38%, his To Hit using 1D10's is 3 or less.  If this character was using an AK (Cyclic Rate of 600rpm), he would roll 6 1D10's with every result of 3 or less hitting the target.   

A note on multiple bursts during a round:  I use 4 range bands for my game... Short (full Skill), Medium (Skill x 0.75), Long (Skill x 0.5), and Extreme Range (Skill x 0.25).  It takes MULTIPLE SRs to fire beyond Short Range.  This is to take into account the time needed to aim and also factoring in projectile travel time to the indicated range.  Thus my ranged fire can consume several SRs.  The costs in SRs for each Range Band are... Short (1 SR), Medium (2 SR), Long (3 SR) and Extreme Range (4 SR).  Long Bursts ADD 1 SR to the aforementioned totals.    

Special Types of Automatic Fire:

        Sometimes, it becomes important to ensure that a target be "neutralized" by a burst of fire.  One way to do this is to "saturate" a target with autofire.  

Saturation Fire:  To perform this type of automatic fire, you divide the weapon's ROF by 2 (rounding down).  The remaining total will add +10%/+1 to the Hit Number and be the number of dice rolled for the attack.  For example, the shooter with the AK above chooses Saturation Fire.  He will Roll 3D10 to hit his target and his To Hit will increase to 68% (rounding to 6 in 10).

        Sometimes a shooter needs to hit multiple targets with a single burst.  This is known as "grazing fire."

Grazing Fire:  To perform grazing fire, the shooter will divide the ROF by 2 (rounding down).  This is the TOTAL NUMBER OF TARGETS OR METERS OF AREA that can be engaged with a single Burst.  The AK in the previous examples could engage 3 targets or rake 3 meters of a map (to engage widely spaced targets) with a single burst.  Grazing Fire cuts the To Hit in HALF due to the "sweep" of the weapon during the burst.  The shooter with the AK above would have to roll a 1 on 1D10 to hit three targets charging him with a 6 round burst.

       Grazing Fire and Saturation Fire may be combined.  Grazing Fire is ALWAYS figured first.

Stray Rounds and Dispersion:

      Rounds which miss the target simply don't disappear, they travel on until they hit something.  Half of all the rounds in a burst which miss a target will "attack" anyone else standing in line with the 1-meter hex/square the target occupies.  Rounds will go out to the end of the Range Band (sht, med, etc...) the Target was in OR a distance equal to the range in meters to the Target.  Rounds fired into the "empty" 1-meter hexes/squares between targets fired on with Grazing Fire will ALSO travel to the end of the Range Band OR a distance in meters equal to the range to the target.

      Most automatic weapons also include a bit of "inaccuracy" which is designed to develop a "cone of fire."  This cone of fire is known as Dispersion.  Dispersion grows as the range increases.  This will cause some rounds in a burst to "drop away" from a target (this occurs with shotgun pellets too).  Dispersion depends on the range from the muzzle and the size of the burst fired.  Rounds which are lost MAY NOT be counted for To Hit rolls or in calculations for the Special Burst types.

Dispersion Chart:

              Burst Size                   Rounds Lost By Range Band 

  • 2 to 4 Rounds:              1 round at Extreme Range
  • 5 to 8 Rounds:              2 rounds at Extreme Range, 1 round at Long Range
  • 9 to 12 Rounds:           4 rounds at Extreme Range, 2 rounds at Long Range, 1 round at Medium Range
  • 13 or more Rounds:    8 rounds at Extreme Range, 4 rounds at Long Range, 2 rounds at Medium Range, 1 round at Short Range 

As you can see, larger burst (like those from MG42 machineguns) will suffer greater ranges of Dispersion than slower firing weapons. 

 

Suppression:

I make my players make WILL checks (I added the WILLPOWER characteristic as a measure of "mental strength" to my game) for suppression.  I subtract the Burst size from WILL before they roll WILL X 5.

This is my take on AutoFire in BRP. 

 

Edited by olskool
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On 11/15/2017 at 1:17 PM, SDLeary said:

Yes.

Also, auto fire has a "lethality rating". If you hit, roll under the lethality rating and the target dies, otherwise roll damage as normal. No figuring out how many round hit, separate damage, etc. 3-round bursts are at a single target. Longer bursts give an area effect. And so on. 

And not firearms related, but the integration of UA style mental effects while still using a SAN based system is excellent as well.

SDLeary

I've thought about it but decided against it. I think DG's rule is cool, but it works for DG because: 1) You don't have semi-auto rof for guns, you only fire one shot. So full-auto always does more damage then semi-auto 2) It's only modern weapons and doesn't inclide sci-fi weapons which can do more damage then 2d10.

Now there would have to be some changes to BRP to make it work. First, I would compress the damage values of all the weapons so that it stays kinda in the same range and rule that sci-fi guns penetrate more primitive body armor easily. Like rifle weapons all just do 2d6+2 even if it's a projectile or laser rifle. Second, set all weapon's ROF to 1. That should make the DG Lethality Rating work, for the most part.

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17 hours ago, KPhan2121 said:

I've thought about it but decided against it. I think DG's rule is cool, but it works for DG because: 1) You don't have semi-auto rof for guns, you only fire one shot. So full-auto always does more damage then semi-auto 2) It's only modern weapons and doesn't inclide sci-fi weapons which can do more damage then 2d10.

Wow! I had completely forgotten that some semi-auto firearms are listed with a ROF of 2! :o

I don't remember us playing things that way anyway. Semi's always had a rate of 1, bolt and lever 1/2. The only weapons that had a ROF of 2 were double barrel rifles or shotguns. But, we did play that you could continue to fire a semi each following DEX rank or SR, as long as it was at the same target.

17 hours ago, KPhan2121 said:

Now there would have to be some changes to BRP to make it work. First, I would compress the damage values of all the weapons so that it stays kinda in the same range and rule that sci-fi guns penetrate more primitive body armor easily. Like rifle weapons all just do 2d6+2 even if it's a projectile or laser rifle. Second, set all weapon's ROF to 1. That should make the DG Lethality Rating work, for the most part.

Depends on the level of SciFi, but yes. The only exception that I might make is if the target is in medieval full harness, that has been polished, for a parade, on a Tuesday... well you get the idea. It reflects off, assuming a laser. 

And just a suggestion... Man portable lasers are nasty. In order to maintain a decent number of shots in the "magazine", and to prevent untimely emitter overheating, they run at a lower power than vehicle mounted weapons, and are tuned in such a way that they cause an unarmored, fleshy target to go pop. That is, they superheat an area of flesh, causing a large, deep area to blister and burst outward. These lasers do not impale, but do cause bleeding on a Special. They don't do "more" damage than firearms, but on average cause more gruesome wounds. Damage = 1d6+7

SDLeary

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On 10/28/2017 at 5:53 PM, KPhan2121 said:

I've never liked the way the Autofire rules functioned. I think it makes autofire weapons overpowered, the accuracy bonus to hit makes it too powerful. I thought automatic fire makes you less accurate. 

Autofire usually makes you less accurate-it depends on how fast the weapon cycles, how much recoil the weapon has, and what kind of support the weapon has to help deal with the recoil. 

But automatic fire increases the number of shots fired (yeah, I know, duh) which in turns results in a greater chance of hitting the target. So something like 5 shots at 20% can have a higher chance of getting a hit than say one shot at 50% (And they do, about a 67% chance of getting at least one hit). And it's actually a bit more complicated still, since there are usually a few shots in a burst that don't really have much chance of hitting-especially with longer bursts.But overall someone firing a burst is more likely to get a hit than someone firing one shot. 

 

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On 11/20/2017 at 1:15 AM, olskool said:

 

RECOIL:

 

  • Folding Stocks:  The "wobble" inherent in folding stocks will INCREASE Recoil

Not it won't. The stock used will not  INCREASE the recoil force. At worse it will still REDUCE recoil somewhat it due to the added mass. What the "wobbly" stocks do is make bracing a weapon less effective.And I say bracing a weapon is worth more than 1 point of STR. An average person firing a SMG two handed is going to be able to handle recoil much better than a strong person firing the SMG one handed.  

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