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RIFTS BRP


PK Games

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Hi all, working on some RIFTS BRP conversion rules.

Most of the simple work is easy, just transfer skills directly over, realign attributes to corresponding characteristics and so forth. Im having three major issues.

1. Various Hand to Hand skills. I want to keep that generic and general Palladium flavor of various hand to hand types, but need to figure out a system to distinquish between Hand to Hands Basic, Expert, Martial Arts and Assassin. Much like how Martial Arts works in conjunction with Brawl (or kick/punch in Call of Cthulhu) I want these skills to do the same. Basic increases the damage to 1D4, expert increases damage to 1D4 and can parry without taking damage, Martial arts does the 2D3 damage (as in Call of Cthulhu) or something along those lines. What do you all think.

2. Physical Skills. Some physical skills on the Rifts Skill Lists dont really move over to % based well. So Im thinking Running can be used to temporarily run faster on a successful % check, wrestling works with grappling (duh), boxing with punching (duh, but needs to be different then the hand to hand skills) and so forth, but what does Body Building do?

3. Mega Damage.... I dont like the 1 MDC to 100 HP conversion, I want Mega Damage weapons to be deadly, but not instant death by vaporization as in Rifts, if you arent MDC Protected. Im thinking MDC attacks ignore NON MDC armours and the first die of damage is always maxed and so forth.

Any ideas and suggestions will be appreciated.

If you are wondering, I am currently converting over the Coalitions weapons, OCCs and setting and hope to test play a scenario next weekend.

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I was under the impression that Palladium sent wave after wave of killbots after people who hijack their settings into other rule-systems online?

Understand - I think a conversion is a fantastic idea! But, traditionally, haven't they been somewhat . . . rabid about this kind of activity?

I'm at work ATM, but I'll give some though to your further questions.

Try and keep the bail low! :)

Emerging from my Dark Age...

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Im leaning toward body building being some special skill that is used when the character attempts to increase his STR, CON or DEX.

As for the Hand to Hand variants, Im thinking of just adjusting the variety of what they can do. For example, Basic is just brawl (ie punch/kick), that does 1D3 damage and can not crit. Expert is brawl that does 1D4 damage and can be used to parry melee attacks. Martial Arts works like expert but does 2D3 damage on a crit.

As for MDC armor, Im thinking of them having really high armor values with penetrating damage being halved.

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3. Mega Damage.... I dont like the 1 MDC to 100 HP conversion, I want Mega Damage weapons to be deadly, but not instant death by vaporization as in Rifts, if you arent MDC Protected. Im thinking MDC attacks ignore NON MDC armours and the first die of damage is always maxed and so forth.

My approach to MDC armor has been to apply the old Armor Points system of 1 MDC point is equal to one AP so that the damage done must exceed the AP, but all damage over the current AP reduces the value of the armor by the damage in excess of the AP. I find this makes the armor durable, but also encourages players to pay attention to the state of their armor as well as be concerned with making sure to get armor patched after combat with more often armor replacements due to wear and tear.

For MDC weapons, I use a Penetration Factor that provides an amount of AP that the MDC weapon ignores, so that when say a C-12 does 4d6 damage with a PF of 50 on setting 1, 2d6 damage with a PF of 25 for setting 2, and does 6d6 damage with no PF on setting 3. This means that if you leave CA-1 armor with 50 AP, that setting 1 will take out the armor fairly quickly, but have a tough time with CA-2 armor unless there is a called shot to the head or an extremity. I'm a fan of the all shots go to the main body unless called otherwise courtesy of military weapons training. Allways shoot center of mass. This also means that Setting 3 hasn't a prayer of doing any serious damage except to the arms, legs or head with special or critical successes.

Another aspect of PF points is that they are additional damage done when encountering flesh. This makes MDC weapons incredibly deadly, and though you said you didn't necessarily want the instant death without MDC armor, to counter that you can, and I have, apply it to armor only. I've also applied it with up to half of the damage done by the weapon to the characters HP as a pass through wound (but found that less than satisfactory to my own tastes). Apply bleeding rules and a need for immediate medical attention. This way combat can be quick and deadly but not to the point of needing a new character after every firefight.

Hopefully this helps.

Edited by kryptickelt
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Im leaning toward body building being some special skill that is used when the character attempts to increase his STR, CON or DEX.

As for the Hand to Hand variants, Im thinking of just adjusting the variety of what they can do. For example, Basic is just brawl (ie punch/kick), that does 1D3 damage and can not crit. Expert is brawl that does 1D4 damage and can be used to parry melee attacks. Martial Arts works like expert but does 2D3 damage on a crit.

As for MDC armor, Im thinking of them having really high armor values with penetrating damage being halved.

What would be the point of taking any skill but MA in that set up?

The lack of good MA rules is one of the glaring holes I think BRP suffers, even with "Land of the Ninja" (which oddly provided nothing in the way of MA rules).

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What would be the point of taking any skill but MA in that set up?

The lack of good MA rules is one of the glaring holes I think BRP suffers, even with "Land of the Ninja" (which oddly provided nothing in the way of MA rules).

Yes at first glance that is true, but honestly the reason you take basic or expert over martial arts of assassin is cost. Im not using a 1 skill point per +1% ratio here. Martial Arts and Assassin are both Advance skills, using the MRQ idea of purchasing advance skills, a character pays 10 skill points to have one of these skills, unless they come automatically in your "O.C.C." skill packet. Then you usually have a choice between differnt HTH styles, but while HTH Basic is not as good as HTH MA, Basic may begin at +15% while your MA option is only starting at +5%.

Then skill advancements rolls would be different as well. Basic skills improve at +1D6, Advance skills at +1D4.

Your % in HTH deteremines what extra benefits you get (initiative bonuses, alternate damage, ect ect) but you still use Unarmed for normal fighting rolls.

This way I keep the feel of Palladium's Rifts with different HTH options but the game isnt shift so far out of balance just because you have MA over Basic. A character who doesnt worry about HTH skills can still be a decent Unarmed fighter without having to worry about any special rules, while a Martial Artist or HTH Basic trained individual will have bonus little abilities to give them an edge.

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I hope I don't sound too aggressive here, as I'm trying to lend a helping hand, but it feels to me you're making a mountain out of a mole hill with your conversion. You should be keeping the basic structure of the BRP system, whilst adding only a few things here and there. But you're trying to hammer in RIFTS rules into BRP, and a lot of them just don't fit.

This is how I would do it:

* Keep the BRP skills as they are, since they cover pretty much the skills you find in RIFTS. There quite a few skills in RIFTS that are repeated. Don't worry about converting physical skills that boost your attributes. I always felt they never really fitted in to Palladium's system - which is, after all, basically several RPG mechanics hammered loosely together.

* Use Occupations from the BRP book, since many found in RIFTS are already covered. You may need to add a few that are not covered, of course.

* Keep Mega Damage, since the vast majority of weapons do Mega Damage (MD), I don't think it makes much difference to be honest. Most people will be wearing MD armour, and spells/psychic powers that provide protection from attack will always grant Mega Damage Capacity (MDC).

* Hit points equal to CON+SIZ would make sense, since RIFTS characters have both Structure Defence Capacity (SDC) and hit points. SDC works on the equivalent level to hit points, so 1 point of SDC equals 1 HP.

* For magic and psionics, you can use the rules from the BRP book, except adjust the effects; so a fireball spell, for example, that does D6 damage per point of magnitude would do D6 Mega Damage per point of magnitude instead.

* Import guns, armour, and equipment from the RIFTS. Or you could simply say that the damage and armour values as listed in the BRP book are in Mega Damage. So a laser doing 2D8 will actually inflict 2D8 Mega Damage instead.

Nathan Baron

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Actually I that what I have so far done hasnt been a mountain. I want to play Rifts, which means I want to have that Palladium flavor and that Rifts feel. I wouldnt feel like I have that using BRP weapons, spells, psionics and skills.

As I said earlier the only problems i am having is converting HTH skills (which I believe I have currently solved) and MDC. My problem with MDC isnt converting it over, I could easily convert it over that 1 MDC is still 100 HP, but I never liked that system even when I played Palladium style Rifts in the early 90s.

So Im going to finish climbing this so called "mountain" and get my play test document ready and then I will post my results (not the actual PDF, but the reports on how it worked and what my players thin).

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I hope I don't sound too aggressive here

I'm going to agree on two fronts. One with the substance of what Wolverine writes and two with the rider.

I do not agree with your approach and I hope that mine is simpler and cleaner but I'm not trying to hammer you for it.

Unless you already have houserules which have really worked flawlessly for years then I'd be inclined to use the RAW as much as possible rather than keep reinventing wheels

HtH My suggestion

Basic = Brawl as written

Expert = Martial Art (Expert) which allows for special damage on a successful roll under Brawl and MA (Expert) just as written and would apply when using any unarmed attack

Martial Artist = Martial Art (named Martial Art) and the special damage on a successful roll would apply to some weapons and to some unarmed attacks depending on the actual art.

You could re-name the Martial Arts skills as HandtoHand skills if that retains flavour

Likewise MDC

BRP has rules for halving the AP of more primitive armours. Maybe MDC weapons halve all non-MDC armour?

Or just use it 'as is' from Palladium

MDC in Palladium is quite a neat idea but whether it suits your game or not only you know.

Looking back its a bit of a rambly post, so I guess the gist is my advice (which is worth an absolute fortune and is never wrong:)) would be to use the tools already in the BRP toolkit rather than re-write. And that way have more time for prepping and running games.

Al

Rule Zero: Don't be on fire

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I appreciate the advice. I enjoy the rewrites, and its not like Im rewriting the system, Im re-presenting the BRP ideas and rules (or more likely the MRQ version) in a style very reminscent of Palladium's presentation. With the Step One, Step Two style.

As far as skills, I see no harm in using Rift's skill selection, each has a description, each as a Base % and those that dont are easily rewritten to fit BRP. This allows player's to choose O.C.C.s straight from the Rifts books and go "Oh so the O.C.C. skills are my starting skills, and I can apply these bonuses and then add in my 200 or so skill points above and beyond that."

And the O.C.C. Related/Secondary Skills become the skills you can spend your "other" or "bonus/non-professional" skill points on (be it INTx10 or a flat 100 or whatever). WPs become weapon skills at starting base chance and so forth.

The only real problems I am having, as I said before, is the HTH skills (which I want to keep for the Palladium RPG flavor, whether it makes sense or not) and MDC (which I like in theory, but not the ratio).

I actually want to stay as far away as possible form just importing RAW, because honestly the only things I dislike about Palladium games (Rifts actually, each different game has different things I like or hate about it) is the level system, MDC, and the fact that it uses two different systems for game mechanics (% for skills, D20 for combat).

The reason why Im changing some of the basic rules from BRP, such as how skill successes work in general (still keeping the overall fumble, failure, success, special and critical rules) is to accomodate some of the Rifts "per level of experience" concepts, like effectiveness of spells and what not. So Ive opted to use the "per level of success" rule from Dark Heresy, which is per 10 points a skill succeeds by.

However, if you could be a little me detailed on your reference to the HTH skills, it owuld be most helpful.

As I said earlier, I dont mind alot of the translations/conversions, as it is partly fun and it keeps me busy while Im overseas and away from the girl.

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I think the general rule they enforce is posting web pages or pdfs converting their setting and systems. They cant just come ot my house in a middle of a game and say "no, roll the D20 bitch!"

Actually, I can imagine Kevin Sambieda doing that.

Chad Wilson

Current BRP Project: Heroes by Gaslight

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I hope I don't sound too aggressive here, as I'm trying to lend a helping hand, but it feels to me you're making a mountain out of a mole hill with your conversion. You should be keeping the basic structure of the BRP system, whilst adding only a few things here and there. But you're trying to hammer in RIFTS rules into BRP, and a lot of them just don't fit.

This is how I would do it:

No offense to the original poster, but this methodology is brilliant. Great posts by sladethesniper too! Methinks the OP is more interested in converting RIFTS mechanics to BRP, and not necessarily the RIFTS world.

As someone that had always enjoyed listening to my brother blather on about the setting for hours, I expected a little more from this thread, but clearly this should be RIFTS [RULES] BRP.

Let me add my voice to Wolverine andsladethesniper. If you're going to convert a setting then do it, and hit the ground running.

Now if only my brother still played. I'd send him a copy of BRP and this thread. . .

And don't forget Realism Rule # 1 "If you can do it in real life you should be able to do it in BRP". - Simon Phipp

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First, I am not making RIFTS rules into BRP, I am adapting BRP rules to use with RIFTS. Just because I have opted to use the RIFTS skill list does not mean I am using RIFTS rules.

Lets see, RIFTS combat.... Determine initiative, attacker strikes, defender parries or dodges, damage is rolled

BRP combat.... Determine initiative, attacker strikes, defender parries or dodges, damage is rolled. The difference is the D20 and the D100, roll high and roll low. In fact BRP is less fluid because when you parry you got to check results (hmmm he got a special, I got a success, check the table) where as in RIFTS its either you parried or you didnt.

What I am doing it adapting the spells and skills to BRP rules. RIFTS Psionics will function like BRP Psychic Powers i.e. as a skill that needs a roll to function. But to make it easier I am just using the ISP rules from RIFTS and having ISP based on occupation and POW instead of OCC and M.E. and so forth. Same goes for magic.

The only area where you could say Im trying to shoehorn in RIFTS rules is with the HTH variants, as I think that adds some of the feel to the original RIFTS to the game. Plus, by using the RIFTS skill set I can just pick up any RIFTS book and be able to say "Oh he has Prowl at 50%" and be just fine with the make shift rules I cobble together. Course I could always just make it stealth, but I find it less compatible that way. The point of my adaption is I want the rules I have put together to feel like it is a RIFTS BRP rulebook, not just some notes scrawled in a notebook.

Once all said and done my RIFTS BRP setting will be about 85% BRP compatible, with the other 15% being slightly altered, taken from GORE or MRQ or adapted from RIFTS.

The OCCs function much the same as a BRP profession, you choose one and bam here are the skills you have available to you, there will be a few bonuses (ala RIFTS and MRQ) to show how well trained or versed a OCC is in a skill or ability and of course you will have your own skill points to distribute amongst those skills.

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No offense to the original poster, but this methodology is brilliant. Great posts by sladethesniper too! Methinks the OP is more interested in converting RIFTS mechanics to BRP, and not necessarily the RIFTS world.

As someone that had always enjoyed listening to my brother blather on about the setting for hours, I expected a little more from this thread, but clearly this should be RIFTS [RULES] BRP.

Let me add my voice to Wolverine andsladethesniper. If you're going to convert a setting then do it, and hit the ground running.

Now if only my brother still played. I'd send him a copy of BRP and this thread. . .

I quite agree with you, Harshax. As I feel PK has probably got his head screwed on correctly, and his ideas do probably work for him, I personally wouldn't bother converting rules from RIFTS to BRP, when all you need to do is just take the RIFTS world and apply the BRP mechanics to it. I don't see the point in trying to work in the various HTH combat styles into BRP, when there is already a brawling and a martial arts skill in place. What's more, I would prefer to go with the initiative and combat system in BRP, as the one in RIFTS is rather broken. You should try and build the system around the world, and not the world round the system.

Nathan Baron

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However, if you could be a little me detailed on your reference to the HTH skills, it owuld be most helpful.

Not sure who that was directed at. if me let me know and I shall try and be a bit more clear. (Or like as not just refer you to the pages in BRP as I am lazy)

As I said earlier, I dont mind alot of the translations/conversions, as it is partly fun and it keeps me busy while Im overseas and away from the girl.

Ah ha! That is a different matter altogether. If retooling BRIFTSP is actually another hobby to fill in the empty hours then by all means ignore my advice and meddle away.

Al

Rule Zero: Don't be on fire

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  • 1 year later...

Hello

I just calculated rifts to BRP and posted it in science fiction downloads

the armor was difficult to calulate but i think i have a somewhat resonable solution.

Converting MDC weapons was fairly easy as both games have listing for law rocket,90mm recoiless rifle,and tank guns so i had 3 values and the rest was logical progression. anyway check it out , modify it as you will.

if you have questions ask me

i hope it helps!:)

BRP Central - Downloads - RIFTS to BRP

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Rifts Dragon hatchlings for BRP

As far as converting MDC monsters ignore the MDC values use a equivalent BRP creature and add special powers, skills.

example rifts vampires are MDC undead monster simply use the BRP vampires.

If you need help send me a email with the creature your trying to convert im sure i can figure it out send me the creatures name what book it is found in or send me the basic rifts stats and skills,description,powers etc.

Also if you need help converting from other game systems send me a email odds are i can help.

dragon hatchlings download link below:

BRP Central - Downloads - RIFTS to BRP Dragon hatchlings

Edited by skull
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