Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
RosenMcStern

What changes to include in a second edition?

Recommended Posts

With the release of the Hardcover Edition and several settings bound to appear in 2018 (delays aside), it is time to make a short checksum of what Revolution D100 has achieved so far, and where it is headed.

The core system has shown to be a solid chassis to build upon. Most people who have tried it are happy with the approach we took to skills and characteristics. Not everyone loved conflicts, but a lot of people ended up saying “I will be using something similar in my game”. Other people had difficulties understanding the subtleties of Advanced Combat.

It is not a mystery that we are toying with the idea of a second edition. Not in order to implement cataclysmic changes, but to make things clearer and more accessible. Some minor improvements made it to the hardcover book, but clarifications would require a rewrite of some important passages to be effective, and this would require a revised edition.

That said, I would like to compile a list of things I think might become beneficial in a new edition, and present them to the public for discussion. Feel free to add your favourite modification: we do not guarantee that we will incorporate it, but we will at least consider the option.

Items with a (+) are things that we should certainly include in the improvement list. Items with a (?) are things that we are considering, but we are not 100% sure to include, or for which we have not found a precise solution yet.

 

MODIFICATIONS

These are actual changes or additions.

(+) Introduce Motivation slots as a standard rule (currently they exist in Merrie England but not in the core)

(?) Introduce packages of stunts, equipment and powers as a standard for handling settings

(?) Find a [better] way for the leader’s Traits to provide a support bonus in Conflicts

(+) Eliminate Fate Points and keep only the simplified Motivation mechanics

(?) Eliminate zero point wounds: only damage in excess of Toughness becomes permanent

(?) Simplify advanced armour and add more examples of additional items like gloves etc.

(+) Make better entry for non-locational armour on character sheet

(+) Make burst fire less precise at long range, differentiate between 3 and 10 shot bursts

(?) Simplify the rules for Value for rituals and gadgets – maybe find a better name for Value?

CLARIFICATIONS

Many rules are already present but not clear, or not explicit. Here are the points we should stress more.

Writing conventions

(+) Streamline writing conventions for Skills, Traits and Stunts

(?) Make writing convention for Consequences more understandable

(+) Consolidate a standard for statblocks

Skills

(+) Clarify what kind of effects Stunts may have

Core Mechanics

(+) Generate numeric resources when they are useful; never track numeric resources between conflicts

Combat

(+) Better explanation of how after-combat healing works.

Items

(+) Improve the explanation of how the item design rules work, for both weapons and armour

Powers

(+) State explicitly that rituals allow freeform magic; find a word beyond “ritual” for extended use of non-magic powers

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What sort of simplified antagonists do you wish to create? For combat or for generic conflicts ? And how simplified ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a detail : in the Blessing Invoke Lesser Cantrip, Invoke Cantrip and Smite With Cantrip, you mention "offensive cantrips": I'm not sure to have seen any definition of what an offensive spell is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another question : during a Conflict, you must chose between gaining a support or rolling for effect. Why shouldn't you do both, at least in other time scales than combat ? It is especially frustrating during a one-to-one conflict. I don't see the point here, but there may be some balance reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bullseye! You hit the spot. It is for balance reasons, and it is the point most in need of an improvement in the rules."(?) Find a [better] way for the leader’s Traits to provide a support bonus in Conflicts".

Essentially, if you allow a Support Bonus from the character who is rolling you are decreasing the incidence of other characters. There are fewer reasons for relying on friends. It is of course less necessary in a one-to-one conflict, but if we allow it when you go solo, then players will try to use this rule when they are not alone, and monopolize the conflict..

If anyone has good ideas on the subject, I am listening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1- explicitly allow multiple traits for rolling (at least you get one support), once in the Conflict per additional Trait ? It is like allowing one support but obliging to use it immediately. The available supports are also limited, you'll need your friends. If you want a standard support which you can use whenever you like and without limitation, then you can't roll

2- leave it to the narrator's decision, which players do anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Zit said:

1- explicitly allow multiple traits for rolling (at least you get one support), once in the Conflict per additional Trait ? It is like allowing one support but obliging to use it immediately. The available supports are also limited, you'll need your friends. If you want a standard support which you can use whenever you like and without limitation, then you can't roll

...could work...

We have heard Olivier's opinion. What does the Silent Majority tithink?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.. Still reading the hardcover version and taking it in.

Regarding your initial ideas, I like the notion of perhaps simplfying damage in Advanced Combat by ruling no need for 0 point wounds - just exceed the Toughness value to do damage.

I also like the ideas of Motivations being in the core rules.

Edited by Mankcam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had some difficulties with the power extensions and ritual castings.

Page 176, improved and ritual use of powers.

Quote

Given sufficient time and tranquillity, a character may choose to start a Conflict to
give an improved effect to a power. To activate an improved or ritual version of a
power,

The first sentence is about improved power, but in the second sentence a "ritual" pops up from nowhere. Or do you mean : "To activate an improved  version of a
power, you have to use a Ritual ? This paragraph is actually about improving a power which is basically not a ritual, by using a conflict. It seems that a ritual is also a power which simply requires some time to activate (ex. summon [entity]). If this is the case, explain it in the section about power activation (p. 172). After all, as soon as you take some time to activate a power, you are stricto sensu conducting a ritual. May be reserve the term "ritual" for powers actually requiring a ritual, and stay by "improved activation" or even "improvement ritual" (always both terms together) for powers modified through a conflict,.

The next section "Extended Range and Area Effect" is not clear. You start with :

Quote

when a skilled power user unleashes his or her paranormal abilities
with an extended Activation procedure, this line of sight limitation is broken

And then the chart. So it looks like the range is automatically extended with the duration. In this case, the whole paragraph shall be next to the "extended power duration" page 175. But later comes :

Quote

If a power has a fixed range score of its own, its actual radius will still
change scale with ritual casting

you finish with :

Quote

If the Range of a pre-activated or extended power is manipulated, the effective
Range score is the same you can achieve in Combat Time. Accessing the
extended radius is only possible when using the improved/ritual procedure.

And then here is the Manipulation. At this point I'm lost. Extension, ritual, manipulate...please clarify and simplify.

The chart page 177 (in the middle of the enchantments, wrong place, move it) explains it a bit more : if you want to use the extended range, you have to make a ritual, that is a conflict. So the extended ranges on the chart are how the powers are POTENTIALY extendible with a conflict vs. value x time scale. Why don't you use the same rule as for duration scale, that is simply multiply the channeling point by the range scale, without any conflict, and keep the conflict for the range score only -as per other attributes ?

It looks like the rules are unable to chose between two -nice- procedures : using channeling or using conflicts. So to improve an attribute of a power on a higher time scale, I must :

1- extend the power with an extended activation procedure (which is also called "extended power duration") using the channeling, and

2.- improve the attributes using the ritual activation (also called ritual use, which brings some confusion with the ritual powers) with a conflict. Except if you have a manipulation stunt.

Am I correct ? Or don't I need an extended activation as soon as I made a ritual in a higher time scale ? Which would mean that there is no limit, I can activate as many powers as i want in a high time scale, as long as I win my conflicts.

 

Well, this post is a bit confuse because the rules are confusing (for me at least).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, as I wrote in the other thread, this is the point which is most in need of clarification. And it is a very important point, not a marginal one.

To explain this with an actual play example, now that I have made some details of the Yokai Koku playtest public: the second playtest group used a ritual to win the campaign by defeating both enemy armies, whereas the first one had to resort to the good old frontal assault technique and got TPKed.  I hope that this clarifies how important rituals can be.

One of the big problems is that ritual casting can be applied to non-magic powers (Psi and even superpowers), so the term "ritual" may become misleading. However, "improved activation" is not particularly clear, either.

--------

While we organize a big errata for this, let us try to solve Zit's doubts in a quick way:

  • all powers can be pre-activated so that they take effect in Adventure Time and last till the end of the next conflict in Adventure or Combat Time; Channelling limits the amount of powers you can pre-cast in this way.
  • Arcane Magic and Psi can be pre-activated for indefinite duration in Adventure or Narrative Time (i.e. they do not expire at the end of the next conflict), but they use up double and triple their cost in Channelling in this case.
  • All powers except cantrips (and even cantrips in some environments, for instance the Yokai Koku) can be extended in duration, range and scope of the effect by ritually casting it in a conflict. For instance, Project Lightning can be used to create a thunderstorm by improving its range, duration and scope. Fire magic could create a drought, etc. However, this requires a different casting procedure which requires a Conflict against the full Value of the effect, multiplied by the time scale, which means a very high Value to defeat.

For instance, let us say I am a magician with Channelling 7, Focusing 8. If I know Protection. I can keep Protection 9 active in Narrative Time on one single target at a cost of three Channelling points (Arcane Magic costs one point of channelling per manipulation, not per Might). This means me and my bodyguard have Protection 9 always on, without any need for a ritual casting: very convenient!

Now, if I want to shield an entire castle from harm because it is undergoing catapult fire, the effect cannot be so strong. In this case, I need to calculate the Value of the effect (Target 1, Range 1, Might 8, for a total of 10) and multiply it by three if it has to last more than a few hours. That makes 30 points of opposition to beat, something that even a powerful magician cannot hope to achieve without suffering Consequences. A wise magician would not attempt to use more than MIght 4 in this case.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After a long meditation on the subject (well, maybe not so long), I have decided that we will publish a revised, cleaned up version of the ritual rules in the Rise of the Yokai Koky campaign. This will take place even if the crowdfunding does not succeed.  It makes sense for the campaign, as rituals are central to the storyline, and we had at least one case when the player characters made their own ritual. At the same time it will be an important complement for the core rules. It shuold not take more than a couple of pages. The SRD will be updated during the course of Summer, too, and will contain the clarified rules.

This is not the beginning of a "let us split the rules among various books" phase for Revolution D100. We are still supportive ot the "one book with all you need to develop your own game" approach, with packages and supplements providing game worlds you can play "out of the box", not essential rules which did not fit in the core book. A hypothetical second edition will see the new version of the rules included in the core. All references to the recent polemics about "one other game" not containing the disarm rules in the core book are absolutely coincidential, of corurse. The problem with rituals in RD100 predates "the other game".

And for those who had not understood it yet, one information that we cannot include in a published book: rituals in Rd100 are like rituals in 13th Age. Oh yes.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/14/2018 at 9:05 AM, RosenMcStern said:

And for those who had not understood it yet, one information that we cannot include in a published book: rituals in Rd100 are like rituals in 13th Age. Oh yes.

If both are OGL, why can't you use the Open Game Content in 13th Age Glorantha, refer to it in the OGL Section andamend for revolution? That's the great advantage of publishing under the OGL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, soltakss said:

If both are OGL, why can't you use the Open Game Content in 13th Age Glorantha, refer to it in the OGL Section andamend for revolution? That's the great advantage of publishing under the OGL.

Advice noted.  And it may be the right thing to do, in fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please have a look at the below post. This is going to become the standard format for NPCs, it is important that it be the most usable format we can achieve.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When reading the extended powers rule, I thought it was basically a default rule for any power system (even if it is  clearly written that it is not the case), and the divine magic the exception (I haven't read the weird science). That may be because my English is not sufficient, or there may be so much info that I missed it. As a consequence, there was for me 2 ways of extending all the powers : the extended casting and the ritual casting.

You may try to find a way to make it clear for stupid people like me what is a core rule (e.g. pre-activation or rituals) and what is an option (e.g. extended duration). That's the difficulty with a toolkit like RD100.

A side bar comment seems not correct to me, p. 178 beside the enchantment section:

Quote

We have so far examined the
four cases of power duration:
Activation during Combat Time;
pre-Activation in prevision of a
Conflict; extended duration; and
enchantment. As shown in the
table, the Time Scale multiplier
affects both the Value of the
power and the number of points
of Limiting Factor it uses when
pre-activated or extended.

The ritual is missing. As it is written, the extended duration looks like a standard default rule.
 

A question : does the rules for dissipating long duration power works for extended powers (with channeling) as well ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×