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BRP Amber?


Atgxtg

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I'm starting up a new campaign soon, and am going over the various things I could run. One thing that I'd love to run would be an Amber campaign (based on the Zelazny books). Unfortunately, my players like rolling dice and fighting stuff, and just wouldn't adapt to the whole dice-less thing. And most of them haven't read any of the books, despite getting books as gifts, being encouraged to read them,etc. 

But, the idea came to me that I could run a sort of "back door" Amber game using BRP. The idea would be that the characters are younger Amberites with no knowledge of their heritage, or the big picture, and are being raised in a world (personal shadow) designed for just that purpose. Said world working just like BRP, probably BRP Magic World (mixing in Moorcock isn't impossible, both versions of the  Courts of Chaos are very similar). In Amber terms the players would be starting characters without any special powers yet, but with a lot of Good Stuff.

The idea is that the characters were left here is safekeeping during the Patternfall War and the one responsible died before they could tell anyone else. The PCs start off on an estate, and have some teachers and guardians (I was thinking of using Ganelon), as the shadow was custom built for these PCs. Then something nasty comes around and the PCs start to discover clues to the heritage (for example, some Trumps and a "sometimes there" staircase)  and get drawn into a full Amber campaign.

 

I was thinking that, in Game Terms, Amber level is probably about 30 ish, and someone like Corwin has a STR in the 40s (he and Random could lift a car). Most of the Amber Magic could be duplicated by the BRP rules, and Power such as Pattern Imprint could be worked up in BRP terms (probably some skills and Stamina rolls, POW if resisted). 

 

Does this sound feasible? And would it be interesting? Any pitfalls? 

 

 

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That's what I was thinking and why I picked this approach. I figure I can even fudge stats a little later on by assuming that everyone on this shadow is really stronger and healthier than normal humans so as the PCs won't feel out of place. 

 

I was also thinking that I can do a bit of misdirection here by fleshing out the world a bit and letting the players get into the normal gear, magic. etc. of the setting, and then wow 'em when something Amberish warps their reality and changes the laws of physics (or magic) on that shadow.  For instance, I was thinking that they would start on the coast with sailing ships, and have a personal ship that, unbeknowst to them, can fly. Then, just about the time they are getting caught up with having the only flying ship, they cross over into an adjacent shadow, where the flying ship came from. 

Edited by Atgxtg

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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14 minutes ago, Nick J. said:

Maybe bump them from "total hit pionts" to "heroic hit points" once they reach some threshold of skills, like 2 101+; you can hand-wave it away as though they are waking up latent power or something?

I was thinking I might just up their stats and justify it as they were always that tough and strong, but they didn't notice it because the shadow they were from was built so that they would seem normal. So if everybody had a 20 STR and CON (about Chaos Rank Amber) then 20 is 'average' and nobody will think otherwise. Think along the lines of a character living on a planet with twice the normal gravity. A "100 pound" weight might actually weight 200 pounds, but all the scales read 100 pounds, and since the characters are twice as strong as they think, they don't notice the weight. And, since they have twice the CON the damage from dropping it gets offset by the increased hit points. 

This has the added perk that the heroes will get some significant stat bumps once they are off their home shadow.  It will be a nice little surprise for the PCs, and player will be both surprised and pleased when their stats "go up". How often does a GM give player characters a big boost (8-20 points depending on just where I want to place them on the Amber scale) for free? That should keep them hooked for a bit.

 

One of the nice things about BRP is that all the various options, powers, tech, etc. all help in an Amber campaign. That really helps with the various world building stuff. 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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I think the major thing you may miss out on is the sense of an internal family warfare. The Amber Diceless system uses ranking not only ingeneral play, but also as part of the character generating auction. When somebody makes a bid to be best, they are the best and consequently the auction starts setting up little conflicts and tension amongst the players. 

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This should work fine, the BGB provides tons of tools for something like this. Some Amber powers would work like superpowers, power words would be spirit magic/Elric style sorcery. You'd also need a system fro Amber style sorcery, possibly like the one in the new RQG, or something custom built.

Like you say, start small with basic powers and then bring in more later so you can fine tune new rules and mechanics based on continuing experience.

Pattern could be like a mini-game. Maybe work up a little board game with different waypoints and psychic barriers you have to overcome to reach them. Different patters (Primal, Rebma) would have slight variations. You'd have a skill in it which you'd need to factor in somehow, but would also need to roll MP vs escalating opposition at different stages (can't remember what they are called). I'd use MP not POW because in the books being tired or drained makes it harder. The details of this could be tricky to figure out.

You need some kind of mechanic for psyche battles, such as when two minds connect via Trump or Logrus and try to dominate each other. RQ spirit combat could work for that, especially the more developed system in the new RQ.

Logrus and Trump would also probably be skills, I'd need to take a look through the rules for this in ADRPG for ideas.

 

Check out the Runequest Glorantha Wiki for RQ links and resources. Any updates or contributions welcome!

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6 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

I think the major thing you may miss out on is the sense of an internal family warfare. The Amber Diceless system uses ranking not only ingeneral play, but also as part of the character generating auction. When somebody makes a bid to be best, they are the best and consequently the auction starts setting up little conflicts and tension amongst the players. 

Maybe, maybe not. Plus I'm not sure if that the internal warfare is a good thing. I get why Wujick did in the the RPG, so he could capture the feel of the Corwin series, but I think in an RPG it could be a bit of a problem-at least initially. Unlike the Amber books, or an Amber diceless game, which can be heavily controlled by the GM, in a standard RPG such conflict just leads to dead PCs. Either they kill off each other, or lack of cooperation lets the baddies do it.

 

The Corwin series started off without internal rivalry (that didn't start until Chapter 2 or 3 ;) ), but with Corwin not really knowing what was going on, and starting the players off this way does that. Besides, nothing prevents the PCs from coming up with other reasons for internal warfare. I just have to introduce a few things for them to be rivals over and them play up whatever differences arise. That might even work out better than tensions created during the auction.

 

Or, I could just give the PCs points and auction off stats and skills. How many points for the 18 STR or Weapon Skill @90%?

Edited by Atgxtg

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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1 hour ago, simonh said:

This should work fine, the BGB provides tons of tools for something like this. Some Amber powers would work like superpowers, power words would be spirit magic/Elric style sorcery. You'd also need a system fro Amber style sorcery, possibly like the one in the new RQG, or something custom built.

 

1 hour ago, simonh said:

Like you say, start small with basic powers and then bring in more later so you can fine tune new rules and mechanics based on continuing experience.

Pattern could be like a mini-game. Maybe work up a little board game with different waypoints and psychic barriers you have to overcome to reach them. Different patters (Primal, Rebma) would have slight variations. You'd have a skill in it which you'd need to factor in somehow, but would also need to roll MP vs escalating opposition at different stages (can't remember what they are called). I'd use MP not POW because in the books being tired or drained makes it harder. The details of this could be tricky to figure out.

I had pretty much the same idea. I was thinking that to walk the Pattern would take Willpower rolls (to push on) and Stamina rolls (it's exhausting).with some sort of penalties for failure (loose magic points for Will and a fatigue penalty, of, say -10%r stamina). The three veils from the books would be the waypoints. It's almost worth bringing in RQ3 fatigue points just for walking the pattern.

I was planning on putting a reflection of the pattern in the starting location that the PCs might discover and walk. It was one of several hints as to what is going on that I want to seed in the campaign. That, some trumps, and maybe something anachronistic. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, simonh said:

You need some kind of mechanic for psyche battles, such as when two minds connect via Trump or Logrus and try to dominate each other. RQ spirit combat could work for that, especially the more developed system in the new RQ.

Yeah, Spirit Combat seems about right. I don't think I'd just allow it with eye contact the way Amber does. It would probably need some sort of magical power to initiate it, but that shouldn't be all that difficult to get.

1 hour ago, simonh said:

Logrus and Trump would also probably be skills, I'd need to take a look through the rules for this in ADRPG for ideas.

 

Logrus would. Probably several skills. Trump Artistry would be a skill. Some sort of Enchantment in D100 terms. Probably will need to look at RQ3 or maybe Stormbringer for that. SB will be very helpful for the Courts of Chaos stuff If I use RQG type sprint combat, then Trump Use could double as the Spirit Combat skill, or maybe just rename the Spirit Combat skill, Psychic Combat. That would probably handle the whole Psyche aspect of things.  

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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I like the idea of auctioning off high stats and powers, but I think the high stat should be something like 22 or 25, significantly above human range such that another character can't achieve it some other way.

Bear in mind that all Amberites are very resilient. having HP down to zero will knock them out, but they'll need to take a LOT of damage, or being at someone's complete mercy and deliberately going out of their way for a kill to actually finish them off.

Good luck.

Check out the Runequest Glorantha Wiki for RQ links and resources. Any updates or contributions welcome!

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1 hour ago, simonh said:

I like the idea of auctioning off high stats and powers,

I don't, mostly because I can see keeping everything else under wraps while doing it. If I could be open about this, I could probably just run Amber Diceless RPG. So I'd have to come up with a good cover story for such a radical departing from the BRP norm. Plus with these players there would probably be less infighting over who has the best STR, Sword skill, etc. They'd just each pick thier own niche. And with only 4-5 players there would be more room for each character.

 

Quote

 

but I think the high stat should be something like 22 or 25, significantly above human range such that another character can't achieve it some other way.

Yeah. I did up a scale based on the point values in Amber and worked it out as Human (10.5), Chaos (21) and Amber (28)-so roughly 10, 20 30. Corwin I'd rate in the 40s, so he and Random could lift and move a car (SIZ 50ish). But I'm also going with the +8 to STR/SIZ per doubling.

Quote

Bear in mind that all Amberites are very resilient. having HP down to zero will knock them out, but they'll need to take a LOT of damage, or being at someone's complete mercy and deliberately going out of their way for a kill to actually finish them off.

Yeah> My current plan is to add something between 8-20 points to the PC's STR, CON and POW stats (or maybe just double them) secretly. They don't notice it to start because the shadow they are living is is built to their scale, has higher gravity and so forth. They will discover the truth once they head out into other shadows. Say the guy whose STR in now 25 picks up a longbow and snaps the bowstring when he overpulls it. 

I was also thinking of possibly using BRP hero points to give the PC some extra resilience and to help them cope until they are up to speed. I could rationalize as a form of subconscious use of Pattern to alter random events. Not that Hero Points really need rationalization. 

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Good luck.

Thanks. I can probably use it. I figure this could work out fantastically, or it backfire badly. I could lose the players before they find out what's really going on. That;'s why I think I have to flesh out other aspects of the campaign so that they will be interested in things before the Amber stuff comes up. That way it can be a subplot that increases in importance until it ends up as a game changer, literally. 

Edited by Atgxtg

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1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

I don't, mostly because I can see keeping everything else under wraps while doing it. If I could be open about this, I could probably just run Amber Diceless RPG. So I'd have to come up with a good cover story for such a radical departing from the BRP norm. Plus with these players there would probably be less infighting over who has the best STR, Sword skill, etc. They'd just each pick thier own niche. And with only 4-5 players there would be more room for each character.

 

Yeah. I did up a scale based on the point values in Amber and worked it out as Human (10.5), Chaos (21) and Amber (28)-so roughly 10, 20 30. Corwin I'd rate in the 40s, so he and Random could lift and move a car (SIZ 50ish). But I'm also going with the +8 to STR/SIZ per doubling.

Yeah> My current plan is to add something between 8-20 points to the PC's STR, CON and POW stats (or maybe just double them) secretly. They don't notice it to start because the shadow they are living is is built to their scale, has higher gravity and so forth. They will discover the truth once they head out into other shadows. Say the guy whose STR in now 25 picks up a longbow and snaps the bowstring when he overpulls it. 

I was also thinking of possibly using BRP hero points to give the PC some extra resilience and to help them cope until they are up to speed. I could rationalize as a form of subconscious use of Pattern to alter random events. Not that Hero Points really need rationalization. 

Thanks. I can probably use it. I figure this could work out fantastically, or it backfire badly. I could lose the players before they find out what's really going on. That;'s why I think I have to flesh out other aspects of the campaign so that they will be interested in things before the Amber stuff comes up. That way it can be a subplot that increases in importance until it ends up as a game changer, literally. 

Conventional wisdom suggests that bait-and-switch'ing the game premise is a VERY risky practice.  Players dislike feeling they have made a character for one setting or premise, and end up misfit'ing in another one.

So I would include for them in your elevator-pitch (before they build characters) that their PC's will all be even more than usually uber-competent (even by the common "Aura of PC Exceptionalism" standards), and likely that they also have grown up feeling like they didn't quite fit in anywhere ... 

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43 minutes ago, g33k said:

Conventional wisdom suggests that bait-and-switch'ing the game premise is a VERY risky practice.  Players dislike feeling they have made a character for one setting or premise, and end up misfit'ing in another one.

Yup. That's why I'm hoping to make much of the setting similar enough to what they will eventually end up with, and look very closely at their characters to see just what sort of things the players are interested in doing. . I wouldn't try it this way if I didn't know my players. But it is VERY risky. So much so that I might not even try it. I have pulled this sortof thing off a couple of times in the past (my Doctor Who campaign worked out fantastically with this approach), but it is a challenge. 

43 minutes ago, g33k said:

So I would include for them in your elevator-pitch (before they build characters) that their PC's will all be even more than usually uber-competent (even by the common "Aura of PC Exceptionalism" standards), and likely that they also have grown up feeling like they didn't quite fit in anywhere ... 

Possibly. I'm not certain that that part of it would be a problem. I've never seen anyone be bothered if the GM ups some of their stats. It will be the change in tone, power, focus and scope that will shake things up. But I do believe that if I try this. I'm going to have to be very careful about how I do it. If I do in in stages I could watch the players reactions, and always pull the plug on the idea and just keep things as a fantasy RPG. 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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Here are stats for the Tiger-sized Siamese cats that Corwin encounter in Guns of Avalon, and that I hope to use in them  in the campaign. I  used the RQ3 Tiger stats for a baseline, and wrote them up using the rules for Demons in SB 5.  They cost 66 MPs to summon.

 

STR 6D8 (27) 

CON 3D8 (13-14)

SIZ 5D8 (22-23)

INT 2D8 (9)

POW 3D8 (13-14)

DEX 4D8 (18)

Hit Point (26)

Move 9

 

Armor (Fur) 1D3

Bite 50% 1D10+2D8

Claw 50% 1D8+2D8

Snout 65-70% (CONx5)

Leap 2

Skills: Dodge 40%, Jump 50%, Hide 80%, Sneak 80%

 

Edited by Atgxtg
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Weirdly, about the same time this thread started, I looked into what the status of the rights would be for a potential RQ/BRP license. Nothing came of it, but I wonder if there was something in the air. 

I think it would be a blast. I'd use a simplified version of BRP, though... probably more akin to Elric!/Stormbringer/Magic World, etc. No SRs, "criticals" at 1/10 and just simplified to double damage, etc. I'd break Pattern, Logrus, Trump making, sorcery, Shapeshifting, etc. into packages of powers that you could advance individually, and make racial templates for scions of Amber or Chaos that handled their distinct advantages. 

 

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Thanks for the insight, Jason. 

 

I was thinking of Magic World as a base, and using multiple parries and the riposte option to better reflect the sword fights we see in the books, and Stormbringer Demons to handle the creatures of Chaos. I might want hit locations and fixed armor values though to make things a bit more forgiving. Variable armor is very deadly.  I was thinking of adding in another success level at 1/2 success chance and reducing the damage for marginal hits (maybe no db?) to better reflect why Corwin and Eric didn't do serious damage to each other in their duel, despite their weapons and about a +3D6 db. 

I was thinking of breaking up powers too-there was something in the core book or Shadow Knight, that did just that. I got to find it. 

What I'd like to do is figure out some sort of fatigue mechanic. Nothing as complex as RQ3, but something along that lines so I can use Fatigue to power Pattern use and such instead of Magic Points. In the books manipulation shadow makes Corwin tired, and a Fatigue score based off on STR and CON would fit in with that idea. That would also fit in better with how the Amber RPG stresses Endurance for doing things. Fiona might be better at it, but Corwin can probably last longer. I'd love to use a fatigue point track like in RQ3, but don't want the -1% per point in the red and such that goes along with it. Maybe something like a Penalty die (or my die switching variant where you read the worse of the % dice as the tens) for tired characters might work. Say 1 die for going into negatives then another die for each multiple of Fatigue. Maybe I could just replace Fatigue with Stamina rolls, but then I'd need to factor in for Stamina scores over 100%. Probably just reduce the multiplier.

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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Oh, and if anybody in still interested in how this is coming along:

The PCs will be wards at Abalus Manor, and Elizabethan style manor house that overlooks a port city on the sea. The PC will have been raised here since they survived a shipwreck that occurred when they were children (or infants), when their parents went off to fight in some great war. The PCs were raised by some family retainers, and taught the things that young gentlemen and/or ladies would be expected to know. Horsemanship, Fencing, Courtesy, Sailing, etc. 

I plan to flesh out some of the retainers, who know a bit more than they have revealed to the PCs, as they have been instructed to conceal the PCs Amberite heritage in or to protect them from enemies and relatives.

I am seriously considering using Ganelon as one of the PCs Guardians. I was thinking that Oberlon is the one who spirited the children away, and lied to Corwin about Ganelon death in order to discourage Crowin from ever seeking him out and possibly stumbling upon Abalus. This also gives me the option of "pulling a Roger" and have Ganelon be Oberon in disguise. 

Abalus (google it) is an island and a shadow of Amber, so it will mirror several aspect of Amber. The idea will be that wen the PCs finally get to Amber, it will all seem eerily familiar-even their rooms in the castle will be in the same place as at Abalus Manor. There will even be a copy (or two) of the Pattern at Abalus.

Ablasus is a prosperous trading port, and the PCs will have a small ship of their own, the Pathfinder (sorry, too good a pun), which was one of the ships that they supposedly arrived her on. The ship can travel though shadow (a double pun) and can even fly, although the PCs are unaware of either of those powers.

I'm thinking that the PCs were brought here by Oberon, along with a powerful item that Oberon used to try and repair the Pattern. The item was brought back to this shadow after Oberon's "death" in a manner similar to how the Jewel of Judgment was brought to Corwin. The item has a strong stabilizing effect on shadow and helps to make the area around it more "real" in an Amber sense. It's also blocks most of the "powers" , much like how the Pattern does near Amber, and what is strengthening the barrier that is keeping others from getting into the shadow.

The item is powerful, dangerous, and wanted quite badly by some people from the Courts of Chaos, who sent their minions off to find it during the Patternfall War. When some of these minions finally get to Abalus that will be the catalyst that starts the PCs towards a larger Universe (Amberverse?). Oh, and since I don't want the PCs to find out everything all at once, and to keep the elder Amberites from spilling the beans, the item is going to be (or wind up) on the Pathfinder, so that when the PCs finally set off on the Pathfinder, pursued by Chaos creatures, it will keep them isolated.

 

The item will have been brought here by Oberon's bloodbird after he attempted (successfully) to repair the Pattern. The bird willhang around the manor house (and the PCs) and will be called Greyhawk

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

Edited by Atgxtg

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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8 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Oh, and if anybody in still interested in how this is coming along:

The PCs will be wards at Abalus Manor, and Elizabethan style manor house that overlooks a port city on the sea. The PC will have been raised here since they survived a shipwreck that occurred when they were children (or infants), when their parents went off to fight in some great war. The PCs were raised by some family retainers, and taught the things that young gentlemen and/or ladies would be expected to know. Horsemanship, Fencing, Courtesy, Sailing, etc. 

I plan to flesh out some of the retainers, who know a bit more than they have revealed to the PCs, as they have been instructed to conceal the PCs Amberite heritage in or to protect them from enemies and relatives.

I am seriously considering using Ganelon as one of the PCs Guardians. I was thinking that Oberlon is the one who spirited the children away, and lied to Corwin about Ganelon death in order to discourage Crowin from ever seeking him out and possibly stumbling upon Abalus. This also gives me the option of "pulling a Roger" and have Ganelon be Oberon in disguise. 

Abalus (google it) is an island and a shadow of Amber, so it will mirror several aspect of Amber. The idea will be that wen the PCs finally get to Amber, it will all seem eerily familiar-even their rooms in the castle will be in the same place as at Abalus Manor. There will even be a copy (or two) of the Pattern at Abalus.

Ablasus is a prosperous trading port, and the PCs will have a small ship of their own, the Pathfinder (sorry, too good a pun), which was one of the ships that they supposedly arrived her on. The ship can travel though shadow (a double pun) and can even fly, although the PCs are unaware of either of those powers.

I'm thinking that the PCs were brought here by Oberon, along with a powerful item that Oberon used to try and repair the Pattern. The item was brought back to this shadow after Oberon's "death" in a manner similar to how the Jewel of Judgment was brought to Corwin. The item has a strong stabilizing effect on shadow and helps to make the area around it more "real" in an Amber sense. It's also blocks most of the "powers" , much like how the Pattern does near Amber, and what is strengthening the barrier that is keeping others from getting into the shadow.

The item is powerful, dangerous, and wanted quite badly by some people from the Courts of Chaos, who sent their minions off to find it during the Patternfall War. When some of these minions finally get to Abalus that will be the catalyst that starts the PCs towards a larger Universe (Amberverse?). Oh, and since I don't want the PCs to find out everything all at once, and to keep the elder Amberites from spilling the beans, the item is going to be (or wind up) on the Pathfinder, so that when the PCs finally set off on the Pathfinder, pursued by Chaos creatures, it will keep them isolated.

 

The item will have been brought here by Oberon's bloodbird after he attempted (successfully) to repair the Pattern. The bird willhang around the manor house (and the PCs) and will be called Greyhawk

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

My thoughts? Sounds like a fun premise for the start of a game. I'll watch this thread with interest to see how it progresses.

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56 minutes ago, Nick J. said:

My thoughts? Sounds like a fun premise for the start of a game. I'll watch this thread with interest to see how it progresses.

Thanks. I'm never quite sure when I do something like this if it will interest others or if I'm just rambling on about something that no one else cares about. 

 

One thing I'd like to do is give the PCs a pool of points that they could use to customize their characters a little. Maybe up a Characteristic a point or two, boost or skill a little, get a quality item or weapon, a pet or mount. Whatever. The idea being that such points would be a clue as to what players want their characters to be good at, and thus things that I could give a bigger boost to once they are away from Abalus, and get their full abilities. 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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Well, I loved the Amber novels (well almost all of them) so I'm curious to see how people adapt some of my favorite fiction to make it game-able. I suppose a lot of the success or failure comes down to what kind of game your player's like to be involved in; but it sounds like they lean towards characters that are more on the heroic side of the scale, so they should hopefully enjoy that aspect of it, even if they don't grok that you're running them through an Amber game. In some ways it's probably better, because they won't have any preconceived notions or meta-knowledge and will just have to figure it out for themselves.

Good luck!

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7 minutes ago, Nick J. said:

Well, I loved the Amber novels (well almost all of them) so I'm curious to see how people adapt some of my favorite fiction to make it game-able.

There was an Amber RPG at one time. It was diceless and relied on comparing attribute values and (heavily) on GM interpretation of other factors. My reason for going with BRP has to do with my player, who like to roll dice and fight things, and who wouldn't readily adapt to diceless gaming and roleplaying all the fights. 

7 minutes ago, Nick J. said:

I suppose a lot of the success or failure comes down to what kind of game your player's like to be involved in; but it sounds like they lean towards characters that are more on the heroic side of the scale, so they should hopefully enjoy that aspect of it, even if they don't grok that you're running them through an Amber game.

Possibly. But my players don't always know what they like. I'm kinda hoping to make this multi-layered so that players can take things as they like. At least to some extent. I'm hoping to put some clues that things aren't all that they seem. Those who want to investigate such things, will probably find out a bit more of what's going on, maybe pick up some minor Trumps for some locations, and maybe even walk one of the Patterns that exist on Abalus. Those who have no interest in mysteries and just want to play some sort of warrior, fighting bad guys and killing monsters can go that route. Hopefully, there will be enough to keep them all happy. 

Then later on, once things start to escalate, the players can opt to pick up info from each other, or continue to focus of some aspects. It should still make sense though, since the way BRP works you've only got so much time and resources to devote to learning things. So if you choose to study something new, it's taking time away from something else. 

 

It also means I've got to put a lot into the initial setting to make things interesting, and so the first few mundane adventures will get them enthused about the game before I start bringing in the off shadow stuff. That should pay double dividends, too, since the better I can detail the setting the more out of place the off shadow stuff will seem. Hopefully, I can really weird them out when the tiger sized Siamese cats show up and start talking. 

7 minutes ago, Nick J. said:

In some ways it's probably better, because they won't have any preconceived notions or meta-knowledge and will just have to figure it out for themselves.

Yeah. And in some ways it's payback for never reading any of the books in all these years. Naturally, I'm going to be nice about things and not put them up against something they can't deal with, but they won't know that.  

7 minutes ago, Nick J. said:

Good luck!

Thanks. I'll probably need lots of it. 

 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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Okay, I got a bit of a problem and would love to hear of some possible solutions. My problem is that, since Amberites have high STR scores (Amber level STR is about STR 30 AFAIK) they will also have corresponding high damage bonuses (+2D6 for a STR 30, SIZ 13 PC), which is going to take most of the tension and drama out of swordfights. Instead of an attack nicking an opponent, it will probably end up lopping off a body part. Yes, Amberites have a high CON, but the extra Hit points aren't enough to offset the extra damage. And it gets worse with Elder Amberites.

What I think I need to do is scale back the damage bonus a bit, and possibly limit by the success level somehow, so that someone doesn't get decapitated by a 1 point hit that gets backed up by a high db.

 

Currently, I'm thinking of adding in a marginal success level (over 1/2 success chance, i.e. if someone has Sword 80%, then Crit 0-4, Special 5-16, Sucess 17-40, Marginal Success 41-80) and  not allowing db on marginal hits.

 I couldalso  reduce the damage die for a weapon and combine the db in the weapon damage. Something along the lines of a Sword doing 1D4  on a marginal success, 2D4 on a success, 4D4 on an impale, and 8D4 (or 4D4 maxed or some such)  for a critical. A high damage bonus could shift the damage die from a d4 to a d6 or a d8 and so on. This way, even someone like Corwin (probably around +3d6 db) might have a d12 (2d6) damage die, and on a  bad roll and only do a point or two of damage, instead of virtually automatically taking out a hit location or causing a major wound (1D8+1+3D6 is a minimum of 5 points, and an average of 16) .

 

Anybody got any other ideas of how to handle this in a D100 based game?

 

 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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12 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Okay, I got a bit of a problem and would love to hear of some possible solutions. My problem is that, since Amberites have high STR scores (Amber level STR is about STR 30 AFAIK) they will also have corresponding high damage bonuses (+2D6 for a STR 30, SIZ 13 PC), which is going to take most of the tension and drama out of swordfights. Instead of an attack nicking an opponent, it will probably end up lopping off a body part. Yes, Amberites have a high CON, but the extra Hit points aren't enough to offset the extra damage. And it gets worse with Elder Amberites.

What I think I need to do is scale back the damage bonus a bit, and possibly limit by the success level somehow, so that someone doesn't get decapitated by a 1 point hit that gets backed up by a high db.

 

Currently, I'm thinking of adding in a marginal success level (over 1/2 success chance, i.e. if someone has Sword 80%, then Crit 0-4, Special 5-16, Sucess 17-40, Marginal Success 41-80) and  not allowing db on marginal hits.

 I couldalso  reduce the damage die for a weapon and combine the db in the weapon damage. Something along the lines of a Sword doing 1D4  on a marginal success, 2D4 on a success, 4D4 on an impale, and 8D4 (or 4D4 maxed or some such)  for a critical. A high damage bonus could shift the damage die from a d4 to a d6 or a d8 and so on. This way, even someone like Corwin (probably around +3d6 db) might have a d12 (2d6) damage die, and on a  bad roll and only do a point or two of damage, instead of virtually automatically taking out a hit location or causing a major wound (1D8+1+3D6 is a minimum of 5 points, and an average of 16) .

 

Anybody got any other ideas of how to handle this in a D100 based game?

 

 

CON+SIZ Hit Points is the easiest remedy I can think of without trying to reinvent the wheel, so to speak.

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21 minutes ago, Nick J. said:

CON+SIZ Hit Points is the easiest remedy I can think of without trying to reinvent the wheel, so to speak.

Hmm, let me see. Average Amberite is around CON 30, and SIZ 13 to 16. I suspect that Amberites, being more "real" probably weight a bit more than shadow folk. I've been going through Guns of Avalon to try and figure out just how much weight Corwin puts on after his escape. So that 43-46 hit points, for a major wound of 22-23. Pretty good in RQ/BRP terms. But with a Sword doing 1D8+1+2D6 (average 12.5). Even a successful parry won't stop most blows. Thanks, but I think I'm back at the wheelwright's!

I'm just thinking of how to handle the Corwin vs. Eric and Crowin vs. Benedict fights. By RAW, Eric probably takes serious damage from Corwin's "nicks" and Benedict probably slices up Corwin even with some parries. And it is mostly a low armor setting. 

Maybe if I just used one of the variant db scales from a related D100 RPG, with a more balanced progression? Something like +d4/d6/d8/d10 instead of +d4/d6/2d6/3d6.

I could (and probably should) up the AP/Hit Points of parrying weapons, too. Greyswandir almost certainly can block more than 10 points, and that would help. And a sword made on Amber is probably more real/tougher than one made on some shadow-although the latter might get more real over time in proximity to an Amberite. 

 

Thanks again. I'll dig through my D100 stuff and see what options exist. The old 1 AP per die of db might make sense for an Amberite, but it's not enough to solve the problem. 

 

 

 

 

 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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