Maker Magic musings

[metcalph]

(Prompted by a couple of comments over on the Glorantha forum)

...So I asked Karantharanis his magic cost him so much.  He explained that because the Machine had made the world as is for him to change it would be an alternation to the plan and so require approval.  That prompted a number of questions, none of which he understood....

CUT MIND

1 point

Ranged, Temporal, Active

This spell is cast upon a person,  Each point of strength allows it to affect one INT point.  The minimum strength of the spell must be equal to the target's INT.  Each time the spell is cast, the user expends 1 POW in addition to the magic points cast.

Each melee round for the duration of the spell, the caster may make the target mind divide itself into two of whatever mental dimensions that caster desires.   One half of the mind is always in control of the caster's body while the other is screaming alone in a dark prison.   The target's INT is halved as a result of the spell.   Any spells, knowledges or basic reflexes (breathing, toilet training etc) have a 50% chance of being known by the mind-half in control of the body.  The caster often takes excess time to fine-tune the mind-halves to allow the controlling mind-half more and more basic functions at a rate of 1 skill, spell or knowledge per melee round.

The effects of Cut Mind can be reversed by Join Mind or suitable healing magics.

Comment: This spell is used to combat heresy.  The Gold Dwarves have determined the parameters of heresy using the Measure Mind spells to such a degree that they know the basic cuts to isolate the heretical portions of a dwarf's mind depending on the particular heresy.  Thus there is an Openhandist cut, a Octamonist cut and so forth.  There is also a Slave Cut which Gold Dwarves use to turn non-dwarves into slaves who would willingly follow whatever suggestion the caster makes.

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by metcalph
Minor change

[metcalph]

JOIN MIND

1 point

Ranged, Temporal, Active

This spell is cast upon a person,  Each point of strength allows it to affect one INT point.  The minimum strength of the spell must equal the INT of the minds being joined.  Each time the spell is cast, the user expends 1 POW in addition to the magic points cast.  The minds must reside within the same brain cavity.  As a result of the spell, the two minds become one.

Comment:  In addition to reversing the effects of a Cut Mind, the spell can also be used to graft foreign intelligences onto a host mind.  The host must have some spare brain capacity available (usually through the combined effects of Cut mind and Cut Brain) and the new mind must become part of a host through a Join Brain spell.  

Often used to rehabilitate treated heretics using the brains of dead dwarves of proven reliability.  The dwarves of Slon use this operation to graft treated dinosaur brains into the brains of prospective dinosaur commanders.  

[metcalph]

Maker Magic medicine.

For healing the Mostali make use of healing potions rather than spells.  In the case of severed limbs, they do not regenerate the limb due to its bad association with Growth.  Instead replacement limbs from the stock of available body parts are attached using Join Limb.  The match need not be perfect and it is not uncommon for tales to spring up about a dwarf with hand attached backwards or an arm with two elbows.

Stabilize Flesh is the standard treatment the Tin Dwarves use in cases of severe medical trauma.  It prevents the body from decomposing after dying even to the extent of halting the soul's passage to the underworld. If the patient dies as a result of whatever surgeries or medicines the Tin Dwarf is administering, then the spell will prevent decomposition until the body can be a) restarted with Animate Flesh or sent to the embalming vats to be preserved as a source of body parts.

 

[Tindalos]

I imagine for serious injuries where replacements aren't valid, there's also Shape Flesh, making the dwarf's body as mouldable as raw clay.

The Tin Dwarf can then use a medical spatula to close wounds and alter physical dimensions a little.

(Presumably this spell would also be used by Quicksilver Dwarves for reproduction. Stick a protodwarf module in a mould, send in a lot of enchanted flesh to coat it, and then mould it into a new dwarf.)

 

[metcalph]

Iron Dwarf Death Magic

The Iron Dwarves can manipulate death through their spells.  Specifically they go to places where significant numbers have died and collect the presence of death.  Using the spells, (Cut Death, Shape Death etc) they able to transport the presence and use it to create Dead Zones in which nothing lives.  The Dead Zones have a POT which does poison damage. to whoever is in their vicinity.  Only wearing iron armour from head to toe provides protection against the Dead Zones.  Too strong a Dead Zone can overwhelm even those encased in iron armour and so there is a practical limit on the strength of the Dead Zones.

The Iron Dwarves have Iron Staves which they use to transport their collected Death to the Dead Zones.  These radiate death and sometimes the dwarves have held these staves in battle to kill their enemies.  The tactic is generally considered ineffective as the iron absorbs most of the Death.

Rarely one sees iron weapons with attached Death.  Most dwarves find it easier to smear their weapons with poison instead.

[Tindalos]

Of course, Change State of Death might be used in the production of Iron, solidifying the concept into something workable as a metal.

It would probably involve a lot of death, so those Death Zones may be where the Dwarves store the death until they have enough for all the Join Death spells used to unite them into a usable amount of raw materials.

 

Change State of Disorder may likewise be used in the construction of black powder for Disorder Kegs.

[Tindalos]

Further on from that, Change State of Magic may be a speciality of the Silver Dwarves,  solidifying the translucent quartz-like crystal that they (and everyone else) use to store magic from the blood of forgotten gods.

[jajagappa]

I haven't assembled these thoughts into proper sorcery spell form, but were some musings:

Silver dwarfs - it would seem like a good part of their job is to harness and 'tap' into the magical energies of Glorantha for use in the World Machine.  One possibility is a spell such as Separate (Elemental Rune). Each level of intensity draws forth 10% of that Element from the target.  Useful in diminishing the power of a Storm Voice for instance by weakening their connection to the Storm.  They could also Store (Elemental Rune) into prepared containers (from the Elemental progression - e.g. a copper kettle can contain the Storm essence).  They could also Measure (Elements) where each level of intensity gives greater precision as to the Elemental Runes of the target.

Copper dwarfs - seems like there could be a lot of fun and useful implements and magics.  Gather Lightning uses Separate to draw a Lightning rune spell out of the clouds and then Join it into a prepared long copper rod.  Cut Shadow uses Separate upon a pair of copper shears to cut the shadow off of a target.  

Lead dwarfs - most likely those producing wards and the like would be encountered.  Seal Door seems like a natural one with the intensity creating the strength of the magical seal.  

[Pentallion]

So if pieced together with enough parts, would a sufficiently high Neutralize Magic make for a gruesome sight as the dwarf falls to pieces?  Troll sorcerers might use that spell to make dwarf stew.

[metcalph]

7 hours ago, Pentallion said:

So if pieced together with enough parts, would a sufficiently high Neutralize Magic make for a gruesome sight as the dwarf falls to pieces?  Troll sorcerers might use that spell to make dwarf stew.

I think joinings and the like are permanent and like heal and repair spells, they can't be dispelled.  

[metcalph]

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I haven't assembled these thoughts into proper sorcery spell form, but were some musings:

The main problem I have with your suggestions is that they are presented in the form of combat spells when that isn't what the Dwarves do.  Rather than a silver dwarf casting a spell to reduce a Storm Voice's Storm Rune Affinity, he would be more likely to create a field that dampens the Storm Rune Affinity of everybody in the area.  There's some evidence from the Guide that the Dwarves do this.

 

[Joerg]

The mostali should have some form of pre-cast magic only waiting to be released in a combat situation. Pretty much like black powder, really. Aim, activate, take the effect.

Neutralize Rune already exists as a standard sorcery spell, but without the area effect.

"Reprocess (Rune/Substance)" sounds like a Mostali version of Tap (whatever), isolating an amount of purified substance or runic essence from the target entity or object. There should be at least one such spell per caste, with Quicksilver and Silver possessing wider ranges each - Quicksilver all manner of substances, Silver all manner of runes (except maybe form and condition runes).

There would have to be a "Bestow (reprocessed stuff)" magic, too.

"Activate Runic Property (Substance)" might be another Maker magic common to all castes, with specific applications. Something like this might also be behind the Mostali constructs, where the runic property may well be that of Man or Beast when creating jolanti or mineral/metal combat beasts.

Gold dwarves might have a magic "Instruct (caste/species)" to lay down complex sets of commands and rules for constructs or subjects. Another magic in the same direction would be "Coordinate Project", which would affect all mostali and mostali creations assigned to that project. This could be an active spell.

"Inspect (object/project)" might be a quality control mechanism, possibly "Detect Flaw". Caste and purpose decide which flaws can be found.

 

I wonder about mostali tools. While there appear to be caste-appropriate tools, the first tools of Mostal were multitools, transcending any future caste restrictions. There ought to be some Maker magic addressing this.

[metcalph]

30 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The mostali should have some form of pre-cast magic only waiting to be released in a combat situation. Pretty much like black powder, really. Aim, activate, take the effect.

It's not their style.  Their magic is expensive (even a measure spell costs 1 POW!) and in all the examples of their magic we've seen from Gods of Glorantha and Elder Secrets, there's nothing in the way of magic cast on their enemies (okay there is a produce flame which would be ruled out by the paradigm described in the Bestiary).  You might think that it is a good idea to have magic that a) doesn't suck and b) is useful to directly on their foes - but the Dwarves do not.

In any event, given that they do have Black Powder, they probably don't see the need for human-style combat magic.

 

30 minutes ago, Joerg said:

"Reprocess (Rune/Substance)" sounds like a Mostali version of Tap (whatever), isolating an amount of purified substance or runic essence from the target entity or object. There should be at least one such spell per caste, with Quicksilver and Silver possessing wider ranges each - Quicksilver all manner of substances, Silver all manner of runes (except maybe form and condition runes).

Tap is only known to the Silver Dwarves and I strongly doubt they make combat use of it.  Second, speaking in terms of runes, I think it more evocative to speak in terms of substances rather than runes.  I purposely did not write about iron mostali harvesting death rune energies from the battlefield but about death instead.  As far as I can tell, each of the castes has some additional speciality in addition to their basic substance.

Rock - Cement.

Lead - Glass

Quicksilver - Alchemy

Copper - "Energy" (Which sounds too modern.  Probably the writers were suggesting electricity but I think steam works just as well).

Tin - Life, Flesh

Brass - Heat

Silver - Magic

Gold - Mind

Iron - Death.

Now in terms of magic for the Silver Mostali, I feel we should be looking at what the Dwarves think magic is and how it can be worked with.  Now the Mostali believe in the World Machine which created the world and is ideally static.  Magic being a changing mutable force is alien to the Mostali worldview, almost akin to chaos.  Therefore the dwarves think that magic is something that should be used up and made material wherever possible.  It's not something desirable but raw waste that must be cleaned up and reclaimed.  

 

30 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Gold dwarves might have a magic "Instruct (caste/species)" to lay down complex sets of commands and rules for constructs or subjects. Another magic in the same direction would be "Coordinate Project", which would affect all mostali and mostali creations assigned to that project. This could be an active spell.

Think in terms of the six techniques.  Shape Mind would be the spell for instructing others.  As for working with the Tamestones, that's the job of the Tin Dwarves, not the Gold.  If you are going to introduce new techiques, then make it unique for a caste (thus Tins already have Animate and Silvers have Tap).  Possibly each cast may have its own special technique but they should be thought of in quirky terms (ie what would be an interesting thing for a caste to do) as opposed to useful (They dwarves would kick butt if they could cast a death spell - they could but they wouldn't be dwarves).

 

[Tindalos]

The Gold Dwarf spell Stabilize Mind in Elder Secrets is also useful for teaching others. Halving the time required to learn something.

As for other techniques, I could see Produce being one. The Brass Dwarf spell Produce Flame being one example, but Copper Dwarves could Produce Energy (likely Lightning), Quicksilvers could Produce Potion, etc.

These would be emergency spells, anathema to ordinary procedures; but when you don't have the time or resources to perform regular alchemy, your Quicksilver Dwarf might need to turn their finger into a nozzle and spurt out an antidote.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Tindalos

[Stew Stansfield]

This lovely thread has inspired me to update the magics of Gloyadze Extractorfan and the Mostali Sound Machine to RQG. This heroband travels Glorantha seeking to repair those parts of the World Machine that are misfunctioning on account of vibrating at the wrong frequency.

 

RHYTHM IS GONNA GET YOU (a.k.a. STABILIZE RHYTHM) (various castes*)

1 point

Ranged, Temporal, Active

Upon casting this spell, the user compels all entities within range to vibrate at the proper frequency. The user discerns and sets this frequency into rhythm according to Strike Rank. Typical tempos include simple time (SRs 1, 4, 7, 10), triple metre (SRs 1, 5, 9) or something more funky (SRs 1, 4, 5, 8, 9, 12). Each time the spell is cast, the user expends 1 POW in addition to the magic points cast.

Each entity within range of the user must roll their DEX against the spell's strength. If they fail, any 'off-beat' actions—i.e. those occurring on a SR not specified by the user—suffer a -10% penalty per point of strength of the spell.

*This spell is used by various castes, affecting entities that are within that caste's sphere of competence.

 

[Joerg]

2 minutes ago, metcalph said:

It's not their style.  Their magic is expensive (even a measure spell costs 1 POW!) and in all the examples of their magic we've seen from Gods of Glorantha and Elder Secrets, there's nothing in the way of magic cast on their enemies (okay there is a produce flame which would be ruled out by the paradigm described in the Bestiary).  You might think that it is a good idea to have magic that a) doesn't suck and b) is useful to directly on their foes - but the Dwarves do not.

In any event, given that they do have Black Powder, they probably don't see the need for human-style combat magic.

We had this argument before, but I think that stuff like preparing black powder is part of the magical practice by the Mostali, possibly their non-equivalent of spirit magic. Something where they pour their magical energies.

 

2 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Tap is only known to the Silver Dwarves and I strongly doubt they make combat use of it. 

That's not what I meant, and I didn't mean to suggest these Reprocess magics as combat magics anyway. Reprocess is about turning magic into superior matter, and IMO that's what Maker magic is about at its core.

 

2 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Second, speaking in terms of runes, I think it more evocative to speak in terms of substances rather than runes. 

Which is fine to some point, but when we come to concepts like "energy" (btw. a term used in connection with the spirit trap loaned to Vadel and imitated by Zzabur), heat, magic and mind, let alone death, we are back in the realm of magical concepts rather than concrete physical substances, and I read "alchemy" as "pretty much any substance".

 

2 minutes ago, metcalph said:

I purposely did not write about iron mostali harvesting death rune energies from the battlefield but about death instead. 

I'm a bit fuzzy about what it is that they are collecting. Death as personified by Humakt is the (fairly instant) process of severing life from a body. Being dead is something different. Zorak Zoran's form of Death might be seen as "dying, and then...", also with regard to his use of undead. Then we have Nontraya, Lord of the Dead That Won't Rest, and finally we have "Guardians of the Dead" in the Underworld, like Yelm Bijiif or Ty Kora Tek, whose form of Death is definitely the state after dying, and not the process of dying.

The concept of iron mostali necromancy (in the sense of tapping the release of unspent life force?) is certainly interesting.

The processing of the Tadeniti during the Tadeniti wars looks like a major case of this.

 

I do wonder how and why Iron Mountain in Seshnela received its special bounty of death (metal). It doesn't look like the place where Stone or Mostal died, and it is quite a distance from Hrelar Amali where Zorak Zoran slew Flamal.

2 minutes ago, metcalph said:

As far as I can tell, each of the castes has some additional speciality in addition to their basic substance.

Rock - Cement.

Lead - Glass

It is a bit weird (rune-wise) that the lead mostali are in charge of liquid handling.

2 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Quicksilver - Alchemy

Copper - "Energy" (Which sounds too modern.  Probably the writers were suggesting electricity but I think steam works just as well).

Possibly "force" rather than "work", when thinking of physics? Mostali know about magnetism, and I doubt that magnetism is limited to Gloranthan iron.

Or "spirit".

2 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Tin - Life, Flesh

Brass - Heat

Silver - Magic

Gold - Mind

The four "sky" castes, after rock and the three non-sky elements. (The mostali have no place for Storm, and refer to "bronze" as "brass", the Lodril metal.)

Tin for Life explains how that could go wrong with the birth/growth of Umath, containing lots of the functions now associated with Brightface the Emperor.

2 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Iron - Death.

The thing made after the demise of Mostal (caused by the birth of Umath?), and the closest the mostali get to acknowledge Storm. (Air might be an expression of Tin.)

 

2 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Now in terms of magic for the Silver Mostali, I feel we should be looking at what the Dwarves think magic is and how it can be worked with.  Now the Mostali believe in the World Machine which created the world and is ideally static.  Magic being a changing mutable force is alien to the Mostali worldview, almost akin to chaos. 

I don't quite agree. Magic as perceived by the mostali is the source of all matter.

The Malkioni look at the energies of the world emerging in the Far Above and dissipating in the Deep Below. The mostali may view it the other way around, with matter emerging from the base of the Spike (irritatingly named The Chaosium) and thinning out as you go higher, but the stuff from above is good for stabilizing the matter below. Raw Matter is living Stone, and it used to be collected at the base of the Spike to be Made into the good things of the World Machine, and to replace wear and tear. It could be made into the various flavors that people call elements.

2 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Therefore the dwarves think that magic is something that should be used up and made material wherever possible. 

Yes. Full agreement to this statement.

2 minutes ago, metcalph said:

It's not something desirable but raw waste that must be cleaned up and reclaimed.  

It is something that requires direction, and Maker magic provides it with direction. Stored e.g. as angular momentum in the rotation of the World Machine and lesser (clockwork) instances thereof - static motion.

 

2 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Think in terms of the six techniques.  Shape Mind would be the spell for instructing others.  As for working with the Tamestones, that's the job of the Tin Dwarves, not the Gold. 

I see the job of the Gold case in the case of the Tamestones as providing purpose. Tin offers animation, but Gold offers purpose. Other castes contribute in some ways, too - if you look at the Organstones of the Faceless Stature, there appear to be special minerals that refer to caste specialities.

2 minutes ago, metcalph said:

If you are going to introduce new techiques, then make it unique for a caste (thus Tins already have Animate and Silvers have Tap).  Possibly each cast may have its own special technique but they should be thought of in quirky terms (ie what would be an interesting thing for a caste to do) as opposed to useful (They dwarves would kick butt if they could cast a death spell - they could but they wouldn't be dwarves).

I would rather pair the six human sorcerous techniques with Mostali tooling equivalents, and making them independent of caste. Think of six expressions of Helper rather than eight plus one expressions of the mostali castes.

I do agree that dwarves shouldn't be spell slingers recanting formulae, and I doubt that mostali base their magic on literacy. I don't think that mostali have much use for literacy (beyond what is used in Tradetalk - quantities, substance descriptors...), it's all in their heads, even inventory keeping.

There are items like the Alchemical Transformer, though, which appear to interact with the magic of others.

I think we can agree upon mostali and clay dwarves bringing weird magical and mechanical artifacts into the magical exchanges with non-mostali, things which they can activate. The mechanisms of the Repeating Crossbow for instance, or Black Powder. Possibly stuff like folded, spring-activated caltrops that distribute themselves after being tossed out. Traps for all manner of substances and concepts.

So, rather than having Bladesharp or Boon of Kargan Tor, iron mostali would apply a sharpening tool to their axes to increase their damage as they prepare for combat. Few of the other castes are able to do much in a combat situation - tin mostali might direct tamestones, and gold mostali might remind participants of strategies and fall-back strategies as battle plans meet their usual fates upon contact with the enemies. Rock mostali might collapes or create/re-open tunnels, lead mostali might open or close seals or water ducts, quicksilvers might release fumes. I don't see much of a role for silver mostali in conflicts except to harvest/re-harness magical energies expended, as most of the magic encountered in the battle will be negated by the iron of the combat troops.

[Stew Stansfield]

CONGA (a.k.a. JOIN EFFORT) (GOLD DWARFS)

1 point

Ranged, Temporal, Active

Those targeted by this spell receive a cumulative +10% bonus to any action—such as an attack with a specific weapon or against a specific opponent—if another target of the spell attempted the same action in the immediately preceding Strike Rank. This bonus increases by +10% for each successive action in the chain, so long as the sequence of attempted actions in successive Strike Ranks is not broken. Each point of strength of the spell allows the user to select an additional target. Each time the spell is cast, the user expends 1 POW in addition to the magic points cast.

[Tindalos]

23 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The four "sky" castes, after rock and the three non-sky elements. (The mostali have no place for Storm, and refer to "bronze" as "brass", the Lodril metal.)

"What you humans call storm, we Dwarves understand completely. Umath was the Cosmic Spring, designed to store the energy of the World Machine. This is obvious when you view the rune used to represent the Cosmic Spring. Due to error, it was not fit for purpose, and shattered when activated. This created the gap you humans refer to as the surface, and disrupted the World Machine. The remains of the Cosmic Spring remain lodged in the machinery of the Sky Dome as the Broken Ring. When the World Machine is repaired, a new Cosmic Spring will be created, and the gap shall be filled."  - Highcopper, Gold Dwarf Diplomat.

We know Dwarves use the aeolipile, so they do use steam. It's likely they have other air based technology, such as pneumatic tubes which use sylphs to push scroll cases from one facility to another.

Spells based on storm/air could include Measure Air which could find areas of poisoned or otherwise noxious air that require the use of gas masks. Stabilize Air could be used to keep air within a given container, useful when trying to reach the bottom of the ocean, for example. Separate Air could be much like the sorcery spell Steal Breath, removing air from an environment to produce an airless space, useful as a seal or for alchemic experiments. 

[jajagappa]

15 hours ago, metcalph said:

Rather than a silver dwarf casting a spell to reduce a Storm Voice's Storm Rune Affinity, he would be more likely to create a field that dampens the Storm Rune Affinity of everybody in the area.  There's some evidence from the Guide that the Dwarves do this.

Yes, that would make sense.  

11 hours ago, metcalph said:

Therefore the dwarves think that magic is something that should be used up and made material wherever possible.  It's not something desirable but raw waste that must be cleaned up and reclaimed.  

Interesting idea - and seems to fit with some of the early devices they loaned out.

9 hours ago, Tindalos said:

Umath was the Cosmic Spring, designed to store the energy of the World Machine.

Like it!

[metcalph]

21 hours ago, Joerg said:

That's not what I meant, and I didn't mean to suggest these Reprocess magics as combat magics anyway. Reprocess is about turning magic into superior matter, and IMO that's what Maker magic is about at its core.

It would fit better with what was given in the Bestiary if Condense or Precipitate was used instead of Reprocess.  Then the spells could be filed under the Change State technique.  

 

21 hours ago, Joerg said:

Which is fine to some point, but when we come to concepts like "energy" (btw. a term used in connection with the spirit trap loaned to Vadel and imitated by Zzabur), heat, magic and mind, let alone death, we are back in the realm of magical concepts rather than concrete physical substances, and I read "alchemy" as "pretty much any substance".

That's Malkioni writing and while I think Greg would have been wiser to use Pneuma or Force, I'm really concerned with how the Mostali see things.  Hence I am free to look at  things like the Iron Energy Prison as being a Malkioni translation rather than what the dwarves actually call it.  As for alchemy, I'm leaving that to one side until I get a handle on it.

 

21 hours ago, Joerg said:

I do wonder how and why Iron Mountain in Seshnela received its special bounty of death (metal). It doesn't look like the place where Stone or Mostal died, and it is quite a distance from Hrelar Amali where Zorak Zoran slew Flamal.

Eleven Troll Battles (Uz Lore p9 RQ3 edition) has the Great Victory between Wakboth and Kajabor fought in this area.  The Guide p694 has the Hate Kills Everything - the same battle - being fought further east.

 

21 hours ago, Joerg said:

Possibly "force" rather than "work", when thinking of physics? Mostali know about magnetism, and I doubt that magnetism is limited to Gloranthan iron.

What I was referring to is 

Quote

One
of [Copper Dwarf - PHM] tasks is to manufacture the special magical conduits
which purvey energy to all the parts of a dwarf factory.

Bestiary p64

It implies electricity to most people - I'm suggesting it's actually steam which copper pipes are known to be used for*.  If you can find some way in which magnetism is used that would be awesome.  Although this will make your job much easier, copper isn't magnetic but cobalt is!  (Chemistry factoid for the rest of you: Cobalt is so named because its ore looks like copper ore but actually isn't and so the miners that encountered it named it after the evil spirits that were supposed to have wasted their time - Kobolds)

*However there's a problem with my suggestion in that heat is something handled by the Brass caste.  

 

[metcalph]

23 hours ago, Tindalos said:

As for other techniques, I could see Produce being one. The Brass Dwarf spell Produce Flame being one example, but Copper Dwarves could Produce Energy (likely Lightning), Quicksilvers could Produce Potion, etc.

I think the Produce Flame, despite its pedigree, has a problem in that it creates something from nothing which isn't reflected in the Maker Magic section of the Bestiary.  I would instead rewrite the spell with Heat being the substance acted on by the Six Techniques.

23 hours ago, Tindalos said:

These would be emergency spells, anathema to ordinary procedures; but when you don't have the time or resources to perform regular alchemy, your Quicksilver Dwarf might need to turn their finger into a nozzle and spurt out an antidote.

Another way to do this might be Measure Self in which the Dwarf knows whereabouts in his body, he can extract the required substance with each caste having its own list of substances, it can provide.

[metcalph]

21 hours ago, Tindalos said:

Spells based on storm/air could include Measure Air which could find areas of poisoned or otherwise noxious air that require the use of gas masks. Stabilize Air could be used to keep air within a given container, useful when trying to reach the bottom of the ocean, for example. Separate Air could be much like the sorcery spell Steal Breath, removing air from an environment to produce an airless space, useful as a seal or for alchemic experiments. 

Another possibility is that Dwarves see air as a manifestation of pneuma or magic*, a disruptive force that must be contained or controlled.  It would thus be the province of the Silver Dwarves (among other things, like spirits).  States of air that can be affected by the change state technique would be: turbulent, foul (poisonous), stagnant,  etc.    Stabilise Air is probably what the Dwarves are doing on Nida and Greatway (Guide p297) with detrimental results for the local storm worshippers.

*A much better word would be Gas which was historically coined from Chaos.  But this has the tendency to be drowned out by its alternate meaning of petrol.

 

[Joerg]

7 minutes ago, metcalph said:

That's Malkioni writing and while I think Greg would have been wiser to use Pneuma or Force, I'm really concerned with how the Mostali see things.  Hence I am free to look at  things like the Iron Energy Prison as being a Malkioni translation rather than what the dwarves actually call it. 

But do we have much written in dwarven lingo? This Jrustela introductory bit is the only source outside of the Elder Secrets/Guide general introduction for the Mostali which deals with these events.

 

7 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Eleven Troll Battles (Uz Lore p9 RQ3 edition) has the Great Victory between Wakboth and Kajabor fought in this area.  The Guide p694 has the Hate Kills Everything - the same battle - being fought further east.

There is way too much well-defined Gray and Dawn Age infrastructure in this region for the amount of destruction of the two main Chaos forces diminishing one another happening here. The other great extinction would have been Zzabur's destruction of the Vadeli Empire, but most of that happened way closer to Jrustela/Magnetic Mountain than Old Seshnela. But then, the Magnetic Mountain population was destroyed by the fragments of the Spike.

And the site of Malkion's Fifth Action is supposed to be way further east, too.

7 minutes ago, metcalph said:

What I was referring to is 

It implies electricity to most people - I'm suggesting it's actually steam which copper pipes are known to be used for*.  If you can find some way in which magnetism is used that would be awesome. 

Nice to find an idea that we can agree upon from the outset.

 

The only off-the cuff idea I have right now are the pieces of tubing used to transmit and re-direct microwave radiation, e.g. in radar or spectroscopy (the latter is where I encountered this). That's still electro-magnetism, but the only form that doesn't require electricity in the Real World.

The Star Trek plasma relays imitate that, too, but like steam, this is the realm of heat rather than Earth.

Real World copper not being ferro-magnetic shouldn't bother us much, here. As long as we can avoid anything associated with sky (heat, visible light, lightning/electricity), we're fine.

There appears no feasible way in the real world to create microwaves just using rotating permanent magnets, but some analogy might work for Glorantha.

7 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Although this will make your job much easier, copper isn't magnetic but cobalt is!  (Chemistry factoid for the rest of you: Cobalt is so named because its ore looks like copper ore but actually isn't and so the miners that encountered it named it after the evil spirits that were supposed to have wasted their time - Kobolds)

Let's gather what facts we have on Gloranthan magnetism.

The Guide has almost a paragraph dedicated to this: (p.89)

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Curustus and the other Jrusteli mountains are the remains of the Magnetic Mountain, said by many to be the birthplace of Mostal. Its magnetic properties were lost, either sometime during the Storm Age or when the Spike exploded, an event that shattered the Magnetic Mountain. Curustus is a key element in the dwarf schemes for the Hero Wars.

It exists, as an attractive force. Its properties were lost, quite likely due to Zzabur's Great Blast/the Implosion of the Spike.

Guide p.502

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In the Gods Age, this was the great mountain of Tharkarn, the oldest of the Mostali strongholds. All the other Mostali strongholds were connected to Tharkarn in mysterious dwarfish ways. Tharkarn was called the Magnetic Mountain because it drew things to it and, by doing so, drew the world back together during the Gods War.
Zzabur and his sorcerers tried to destroy Tharkarn with the Blast and the Break, but Tharkarn pulled the pieces of the world together. The parts of the world slammed together, and in the impact, the great mountain was jarred off its base. It moved, sliding upon the world and setting off huge landslides that changed the shape of the mountains.

Guide pp.693f

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Break, The
When the Spike collapsed and was destroyed, an immense crevice tore the world asunder. Zzabur directed it to destroy Tharkarn and Somalz. But he failed to properly calculate the density of the Mostali stronghold, so when the Break reached it the force of the blow was diverted away and it only knocked a side off. The waters rushed into the empty space but Tharkarn was still intact. Then Zzabur and his sorcerers struck again, and the second blow shook Glorantha. Another Break shattered the world and the world fell apart into pieces with the void widening between the places. However, the Magnetic Mountain drew the pieces of the world back together.
The Mostali then had great repairs to make but were left alone to do their work.

Magnetic Mountain was the epitome of Stasis. Not moving, not even rotating.

Its magnetism affected the entire world, not just a certain type of metal, but all matter in general. It appears to have spent itself largely in drawing the world together, but the "energy" the dwarves are handling in their Making may be residual amounts of this, or newly Made ones from transforming the Force or Momentum that is Storm or the Malkioni term for Energy.

 

Creating an Attraction between pieces of machinery at some physical distance from one another would happily play into the magical principle of contagion. I see no reason why the mostali shouldn't do this via copper tubing. The tubes ought to be empty of the disruptive medium of Storm, something which may be achieved by filling them with oil (finally a sensible use for "Earthblood", or some other liquid) and then pumping it out.

[metcalph]

16 hours ago, Joerg said:

Magnetic Mountain was the epitome of Stasis. Not moving, not even rotating.

Its magnetism affected the entire world, not just a certain type of metal, but all matter in general.

RW Magnetism affects everything, even flesh and concrete.  Magnetic substances are just far more sensitive to the attractions and repulsions of magnetism than everything else (which is barely noticeable except for accurate measurements).  So cites showing that Magnetic Mountain affects the entire world does not show that gloranthan magnetism is different to RW magnetism.  Magnetic Mountain still attracts everything - the humans are just too uneducated to notice.