Running Fading Suns with HeroQuest

[AndreasDavour]

I have been thinking that Fading Suns is a great setting, but the system have some issues. As I'm most interested in the social and dramatic aspects right now I'm thinking HeroQuest could be an alternative system for me. The problem is I only have the original Hero Wars rules, and the HQ:G books. They are both quite tied to Glorantha, and I thus call on some of the wise minds for suggestions on how to adapt the system to Fading Suns. So, from now on there will be jargon from that setting, just so you know.

In HQ:G we have a Culture Keyword, Community Relationship at 13 and Distinguishing Characteristic and Occupational Keyword at 17 and the three runes at 21,17 and 13. Those are the basic numbers. If I want to map those over to Fading Suns, I am at a bit of a loss to select what to select. I guess what I am after is how to relate to the math of the system. If I instead have a keyword for Background (Noble, Priest, Merchant) and a Community Relationship and 5 additional abilities + 1-3 flaws, I will assign those 17, 13 and 13. I will now "miss" the 21,17 and 13 from Runes, where so many breakouts and abilities are based in Glorantha. Will the math still work, or are my characters suddenly much weaker?

I'm not entirely sure where to take this, and if someone have experience of both HQ and Fading Suns I would love to hear you think out loud as well.

[jrutila]

I don't know anything about Fading Suns but you don't need to worry about the "missing ratings". HQ:G is just a special "genre pack" for HeroQuest Core Rules. The runes are keywords with breakouts. You can have the same amount of keywords (with same starting ratings) in your game.

In the end, you, the GM, will set the resistance values based on story needs. And you do them based on the ratings the characters have.

I think you are safe with HQ. The Core Rules (applicable to any setting) can be found here: https://www.chaosium.com/heroquest-pdf/

[Christoph Kohring]

43 minutes ago, AndreasDavour said:

Will the math still work, or are my characters suddenly much weaker?

I'm not entirely sure where to take this, and if someone have experience of both HQ and Fading Suns I would love to hear you think out loud as well.

Yes, the math will still work all right! I know nothing about Fading Suns but I'm pretty sure HQ can be adapted to pretty much anything as many people have done so already.

If you do not get all the help you need here, you can always ask on another more general RPG forum like, say, RPG.net.

[Christoph Kohring]

Character Generation Checklist... for HQ:FS

HeroQuest: [Fading Suns] recommends we use an as-you-go method to let you create your basic hero, and then continue to develop it during play.

1. Choose a character concept. Your character concept will usually include a distinguishing characteristic and an occupational keyword.

2. Choose the community you have a relationship with as a keyword.

3. Choose an occupational keyword. This is usually part of your character concept.

4. Add your distinguishing characteristic as an ability. It is a distinct ability unless it is a breakout from another keyword.

5. One ability or keyword starts at 1M, 3 at 17 & all the rest at 13. Spend up to 30 additional points on keywords, additional abilities, or supporting characters. Keep track of any unspent points. You cannot spend more than 10 points on any one ability. Raising a keyword costs 2 points, an ability 1 point, a new ability at 13 1 point & a supporting character costs 1 point.

6. Describe up to 3 flaws. One flaw can be a distinguishing characteristic if you choose.

7. Give your hero a name.

See what I did?!? Compare with the original (HQ:G) here:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/16132498#16132498

Edited February 17, 2019 by Christoph Kohring
Addded: ...for HQ:FS

[Christoph Kohring]

Lets' not forget that Google is our friend... always!?! 😜

https://fadingsunshq.obsidianportal.com/

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/interest-either-the-shadow-of-yesterday-or-fading-suns-using-heroquest-2.469935/

Edited February 16, 2019 by Christoph Kohring

[soltakss]

15 hours ago, AndreasDavour said:

In HQ:G we have a Culture Keyword, Community Relationship at 13 and Distinguishing Characteristic and Occupational Keyword at 17 and the three runes at 21,17 and 13. Those are the basic numbers. If I want to map those over to Fading Suns, I am at a bit of a loss to select what to select. I guess what I am after is how to relate to the math of the system. If I instead have a keyword for Background (Noble, Priest, Merchant) and a Community Relationship and 5 additional abilities + 1-3 flaws, I will assign those 17, 13 and 13. I will now "miss" the 21,17 and 13 from Runes, where so many breakouts and abilities are based in Glorantha. Will the math still work, or are my characters suddenly much weaker?

 

My advice on Character Generation in HeroQuest? Forget about the rules.

In particular, forget about "Must" and "Cannot". Also, forget about having to have anything.

@Christoph Kohring gives pretty sound advice above. Just choose keywords and assign points to them. Keep it nice and simple. I'd personally remove any restrictions, so I wouldn't limit the points you can put against an Ability, but that is up to you.

15 hours ago, AndreasDavour said:

I'm not entirely sure where to take this, and if someone have experience of both HQ and Fading Suns I would love to hear you think out loud as well.

I have played and GMed a fair bit of HeroQuest, but haven't seen Fading Suns. However, as @Christoph Kohring says, HeroQuest can be adapted to almost anything fairly easily.

[AndreasDavour]

Thanks for your feedback everyone!

I have been through all I could find on different places, like rpg.net and others, so now I wanted to check in here where I might find someone familiar with Fading suns, but definitely with system mastery of HQ. I'm pretty sure of what I want already, no "must" and "cannot" will stop me.

That being said, I have noted (from reading the forums here for example) that the numbers seems to have moved around a bit in HQ and HQ:G and so on. Looking at the pretty checklist @Christoph Kohring posted above I note for example that the extra points to spend on abilities, keywords and so on is 30, while the HQ:G and BGG one say 12. Is there some thinking there on those numbers? I have a very vague recollection of seeing 20 pts being listed somewhere as well?

Tied to that, is there something thoughtful and intentional  behind the three rune keywords, culture and occupation? Is 5 keywords a nice round number to cover all the things you need for a gloranthan hero, or is there an idea that 5 keywords, a community a special characteristic and 5 additional ability is a decent set of abilities for 12/30 points? I have noted that the setup in the linked thread on rpg.net and Fading Suns adaption on obsidianportal (I wasn't aware it was still around) do differ a bit. I mean, I can do anything, but it would be nice to be able to keep e.g. the cost of raising a keyword vs an ability the same as in the book is there's a thought out balance there.

The reason I started to think about adapting HQ was the fact it looks like it can indeed be adapted to almost anything, and the focus is more on detailing what is most important in your story, but I have not played the system since the original HeroWars edition, so I wanted to get a reality check here as I knew there are nuances in the system that aren't totally obvious.

[jajagappa]

1 minute ago, AndreasDavour said:

the extra points to spend on abilities, keywords and so on is 30, while the HQ:G and BGG one say 12

That's because HQG already adds points to the highest two runes (that accounts for 12), occupational keyword, and distinguishing characteristic.

[AndreasDavour]

I started to wonder whether the amount of keywords related to those additional points made some special sense, that is if 5 keywords was a special case, but know realized that with those additional points you can buy many new keywords, so keywords are nothing special in relation to other abilities and relationships, right?

I'm beginning to see now how an adaption to Fading Suns might take shape.

[Christoph Kohring]

2 hours ago, AndreasDavour said:

I started to wonder whether the amount of keywords related to those additional points made some special sense, that is if 5 keywords was a special case, but know realized that with those additional points you can buy many new keywords, so keywords are nothing special in relation to other abilities and relationships, right?

Right. Umbrella keywords as used in S:KoH, P:GtA & HQ:G are just one option in HQ:CR. Keywords as packages or no keywords are the other two.

In HQ:G PCs get 5 keywords but can add more (more Runes, Godtalker [S:KoH] as an additional occupation, etc... ) but only 2 on mine & they can also add more. It doesn't matter. Remember: the more keywords there are, the less they will increase.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Christoph Kohring

[JonL]

19 hours ago, Christoph Kohring said:

Right. Umbrella keywords as used in S:KoH, P:GtA & HQ:G are just one option in HQ:CR. Keywords as packages or no keywords are the other two.

In HQ:G PCs get 5 keywords but can add more (more Runes, Godtalker [S:KoH] as an additional occupation, etc... ) but only 2 on mine & they can also add more. It doesn't matter. Remember: the more keywords there are, the less they will increase.

To expand on the above, "How many keywords do you get?" is a significant balance question if you're using package keywords, or only allow access to certain things via taking specific setting-relevant keywords. If you're using umbrella-style keywords it's less important, and if you take the next step and let any ability become a keyword if you feel like hanging a breakout from it, it becomes a non-issue.

WRT Fading Suns in particular, I would do something like this  Monster High setup I put together a couple years back. Give players a few structured choices that help set up their connections to the setting and one another, as well as their positions within both their own factions and noble society more broadly. I would also use some of these expanded Flaw ideas for things like Urge & Hubris, and possibly for and social/political challenges.

 

[AndreasDavour]

Thanks @JonL I like that approach to Flaws.

I now think I have gotten a better understanding of what it takes. We'll see if I get to try this out soon. Our wuxia campaign just ended, and we'll see what we play after that.

[soltakss]

There is a Fading Suns Document in the downloads section. You could use that as background for a HeroQuest conversion. The Psychic Powers could use the various levels as Breakouts, for example.

 

[AndreasDavour]

@soltakss Thanks for the heads up!