radmonger

Loyalty to Harrek means loyalty to Harrek as he is. Which means the expected level of support on a simple success is 'will not go out of his way to kill you'. Perhaps what loyalties need is a mechanism to 'take them up a level', i.e. to take a numerically high but low-intensity passion and turn it into something more significant. so maybe Gunda has 'companion of Harrek 30%' and so has that chance of him actually listening a suggestion. by that logic, say Mello Yello has loyalty temple at 90%. Being a near hero they would normally have graduated a simple temple loyalty to something like 'temple champion'. That would let them ask for iron armour, or a squad of bodyguards. But instead they are still at the level where they need to roll the dice to get a bed for the night. Note if you use questworld-style 'net successes' math for rolls, you don't need that. Gunda can just have a 'loyalty harrek; 130%' that will almost always get 1 success and commonly 2.

A Zzaburi only needs to know the sorcerous version of _summon ancestor_ to provide virtually any spell to any worthy noble, warrior or artisan. Assuming, of course, that there has not been any dirty caste mobility going on...

i would say that makes dragonewts very mortal; they die more often than anyone else... The falling dragon meets the rising ape at the man rune. The dragonewt 'rune' is just a compound glyph for that plus 'dragon' Some sages theorise that the process of becoming a dragon involves splitting up that compound rune into its components. This requires fully develop that man rune, by living a full human life in all aspects, from youth to rulership. Only once complete can it be discarded. without it, only the dragon remains.

A clear majority of contemporary people do believe in some form of religious magic; angels, miracles, curses, horoscopes, etc.This is as true in the heartland of the american empire as it is in the lunar one. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-nearly-8-in-10-americans-believe-in-angels/ https://www.livescience.com/38033-how-vatican-identifies-miracles.html The difference between illumination and enlightenment is that illuminates only believe they are _personally_ immune to magical consequences. To be clear I don't believe in that kind of religious magic, and likely you don't either. But reasoning from that belief system to how those who don't share it think and feel is making an error similar to a christian who asks 'why do pagans worship false gods when that means they will go to hell?'. People believe in _their_ belief systems, not a wrong version of anyone else's. Argrath believes the lunar empire is fundamentally chaotic, and acts to destroy it. A lunar might well believe Argrath is the moon's shadow, and so acts to challenge it to become something better. They might act on that belief; Argrath won't.

Real-world meaning to modern post-Enlightment types, that is. As Bret Devereux argues below, it is generally safe to assume that people in the past believed their own religion. https://acoup.blog/2019/10/25/collections-practical-polytheism-part-i-knowledge/

Using runes _instead of_ stats is not a net increase in complexity. But yes, this is more a seed idea for an entirely different game system than a drop-in house rule.

How about a short list of skill verbs, but instead of tying runes to skills, and have the rune used to augment a skill determine the flavour and details of what the skill does. So influence augmented with movement is fast talk, with life is charm, with death is intimidate, and so on. detect augmented with beast is scan; you are using your senses. But detect augmented with man is investigate; you are using logical deduction.

I agree with the current chaosium line that the whole _multiple Argraths_ idea didn't actually work out that well in practice. Imagine trying to write a wwii scenario where Churchill personally tells you do do something vital for the war effort. But you don't know if that is Cigar Churchill, Steel Churchill or Wheelchair Churchill. Having a fixed name, but no known qualities, loses a lot of flavor, and doesn't actually gain you anything useful. Much better to have background material that outlines the personalities, ideas and statistics of Churchill, Chamberlian, Halifax and Atlee, And then a scenario that says; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guns_of_Navarone_(film)#/media/File:GunsofNavarone.jpg

If the Great Sartar Campaign takes the form; adventure 1: Kallyr tells you to ... events of 1625: Kallyr fails and dies adventure 2: Argrath tells you to ... Then it will be a pretty poor campaign that will be terribly reviewed when it comes out. That rarely happens to Chaosium products, so a reasonable assumption is that it will not be like that. i would expect something more like; events of 1625; Kallyr has a base 100% chance of trying the lbq, and 0% chance of success. player influence on events of 1625: 5% for effects at level of a warband, clan, temple or guild, 10% per tribe or city. downstream effects; Kallyr remains Prince of Sartar either way. Record whether she attempted the quest, and if she succeeded. There probably should be an appendix with 'default' outcomes. so that if you are running an unrelated campaign and visit Sartar for the first time in 1632, you know who is King. That appendix can outline how Argrath forged a great nomad empire out of the beast and horse riding people, and used it to crush all city dwellers, whether lunar or sartarite. And how that is the Gloranthan equivalent of the bronze age collapse, with mass death and the complete loss of literacy.

i have to admit the rq;g approach of personal loyalties is a lot more flavoursome for bronze age fantasy than going out working to pay back your college debts. The problem is it is not really followed through (yet?) in a way that supports any type of campaign other than metaplot npc as questgiver. Even Black Spear is based around that, just with more flexibility than most about what it means for the quest to succeed. Canonically, Kallyr fails her LBQ and dies in battle shortly after the default campaign start date . if that is the point in the classic hero narrative where the mentor dies, the satisfactory follow-up is not usually 'and then I found someone else to follow'. Argrath will have a higher sword skill than virtually any player, and some nifty magic items and hero powers. But the thing that really separates him from a starting PC is that he has hundreds to thousands of skilled and tough people with 'loyalty; Argrath' written on their character sheet. There are no real rules to track those values, to give the gm guidance on how a given action might raise or lower it. what they need to do to maintain it, and what use it is in a battle, moot or quest. The JC product _company of the dragon_ does have rules for running a warband. But, independently of their personal heroic power, the major npcs are at least one level up from that. The question 'how many divisions does the Moon Pope have' is one that really needs an answer if you are going to play as one of his peers.

common rune magic is added to the list of spells taught by most cults, rather than being inherently castable without learning it. the number of magic points that can be used to boost a rune spell is limited by the size of the rune pool pow vs pow spells don't require an additional roll to cast.

As I understand it, an initiate is defined by knowing the cult secrets, and so being able to cast the cult magic. The social construct is that typically requires temple attendance and some level of dedication (although not particularly exclusive). For example, for some rural orlanthi, their initiation ordeal will be the first time they visit a temple. And the guy from an enemy clan casting lightning at you is clearly an initiate (or higher), even if you would never normally let him in your temple. As far as i can see, 'like an initiate, but can't cast magic' is a synonym for 'lay member'. There could legitimately be sub cults of Aldrya, present at an Aldraya temple, that provided only the non-plant magic. Such sub cults would then be potentially open to humans who didn't fancy the idea of being planted. but such an arrangement would only make sense in places where an elf wood was not fundamentally in conflict with the local humans. Which I suspect implies that either the humans do not practice agriculture. Or the elves are resigned to living in a designated garden as part of a larger political system (e.g. kingdom or empire).

Quick theory as to what happens in rules terms when you go through the gory procedure; it transfers your current rating in the beast rune to plant. This would imply it is not necessary if you already have the plant rune. Now, how you would get such a rating is another question. - as a quirk of ancestry, perhaps being descended from the Durev mentioned above. - coming from a homeland where such a thing is common or universal - due to a unique personal otherside experience, as a shaman or heroquester - intense and prolonged sorcerous study - chaos or illumination Obviously, some elves would still have political or pragmatic objections to someone with a demonstrable plant rune who hadn't been planted. They might insist on the procedure 'just to be sure'.

They may well be, though generally defeat in some ritual contest is enough. The thing is, if they are, their son (or other heir) is not going to consent to be part of the clan ruled by the person who killed their father. So the clan is unlikely to stay together without a problematic amount of bloodshed. There is always another way. In this case that means having the guy you killed resurrected so he can publicly acknowledge your rightful rule. it should be stressed that this kind of kinstrife over clan leadership is not really a thing that routinely happens in 1620s Sartar, But the reason it doesn't happen is because of the Sartar-level institutions (like the axe maidens. lawspeakers and cult of humakt) that largely exist to prevent it.

Because it happened before; 'running off with the boss's wife and founding his own company' is kind of Orlanth's thing. The local clan/tribal rex will not appreciate ending up in the mythic role of the Emperor. But most of the things they could do to stop that happening would end up only reinforcing that identity.

The problem with putting trolls on the menu is of course staying off the menu yourself. But yes, that is a valid option.

One thing that could definitely potentially happen is that an earth temple sponsors enough of a full-time military force that they require a full-time military leader. And then that military leader marries the high priestess. And now you have a earth clan bordering a storm clan, instead of an earth temple supporting a storm clan. Likely this is how the Old Earth Temple in Tarsh works. And it is more or less what happened with the sun domers under Monrogh a generation or two back. Avoiding that issue ever coming up is the main reason earth temples mostly use Babeestor Gor axe maidens as guards. If that option is not available for some reason (e.g. they all died in battle with the Lunars), then the temple leadership has a number of choices. In Esrolia, they would have the full range of 6 potential husband-protectors. But Sartar has a much more limited set of choices, with Argan Argar, Flamal and Magasta all being more or less off the menu. This leaves; - Orlanth: fully commit to being part of one particular clan, holding no farmland or herds in their own right. - Yelmalio: come to a similar arrangement with any local sun domers - Storm Bull: offer to shelter a storm bull chaos-fighting band for a season or two. if coin is available, they can hire Humakti mercenaries. Excellent protection, no unfortunate mythic implications. But few can afford this indefinitely. So any time a temple can get some necessary fighting done by orlanth adventerous types not closely affiliated with any clan (i.e. the player characters), they will jump at the chance.

It takes an empire to burn down an elf-wood, but anyone can start a fire. The Telmori are a tribe, and were cursed by an empire. So logically an individual were-whatever could be the result of a curse by an individual magician. Or maybe the cause is dominant possession by the wrong ancestral spirit. Or maybe no-one actually caused it, it was just the consequence of a personal moral or mythical failure by the Hsunchen practitioner themselves.

As i see it, teaching and training are core functions of Rune Priests across all cults, and the priest occupation in general. There isn't a seperate 'teacher' occupation; it is Sunday School or nothing. Cult initiates are those who _do_ magical things, rather than teaching them. A Rune Lord is an advanced type of initiate who fully dedicates their time to the cult, but does so by following some profession other than priest. In return they get supported by the cult as if they were a priest, albeit with a slightly different magical benifit package. Heros are, by definition, exceptions. But in order for a cult to routinely have Rune Lords it must have an ongoing need for ritual champions. In effect, they are following an 'athlete' occupation. For example, I suspect hunter cults sponsor Rune Lords mostly so they can compete in the Great Hunt. Ernalda's Husband-Protector cults do so so they can compete for her favour. And so on.

I think these rules are both simpler and more scaleable than the default 1. humans get 1 combat action per arm, with maybe martials arts or other similar training allowing kicks as well. 2. with two weapons you can attack twice. 3. with two shields you could parry twice; obviously hardly anyone does that. 4. a parry always uses your highest weapon skill; you are threatening and anticipating the actions of a specific opponent to limit their lines of attack. 5. If you are using a shield, a successful parry hits the shield, otherwise the weapon. 6. shield skill is rarely trained in, but allows using a shield as a weapon to make a second attack 7. if you need more combat actions, you need to split your attacks and parries as per RQ:G 8. > 100% skill (after modifiers and splitting) gives 1 free success. So you then roll any excess skill with fumble = miss, sucess = special, special = critical and criticial = critical and pick locatiopn.

'Compatible with Rightness' can mean many things. Maybe it means that there exist wizards who fully know and understand that god's nature and position in the cosmos. So they can act as sorceror-priests of that god[1], rather than Rune Priests. They don't lose Rightness, and the magic they teach is Caste Magic. Maybe it means there is a level of indirection going on; the wizards fully understand the summoning and binding spells they use, and the terms of the pacts they are making. They in effect are sorceror-shamans[2]. What the ancestor or spirit does once summoned is not the moral responsibility of the wizard. Maybe it means that doctrinally one of the above is true, but some or all of the wizards involved are mistaken or lying. They actually do lose Rightness, but take it is a personal failing (or, as suggested, blame it on Zzabur) rather than a systematic issue. Maybe it just means that the loss of Rightness is written off as acceptable, especially if the cult is secretive or restrictive in entry. It seems clear that no mortal society can have everyone being Right; someone has to take one for the team. I like both of your examples for how a vaguely priest-shaped hole in society can be filled by non-zzaburi who are nether sorcerors nor priests. Noble shamans healing the ills of the poor, Humakti Rune Lords supplying muscle to the lords. What I wouldn't expect to see is Rokari sorcerors indulging in any spiritually-risky activities they don't have to. They see themselves as the last best hope of the future. Going round teaching people what they are told is caste magic, but isn't, will be an unbounded source of caste transgressions. So I can't see that they are going to be publicly leading official Rune Cults. [1] This is an old joke that captures what I see as the difference between a Rune Priest and a Sorceror-Priest (aka wizard): When a wizard invokes a god, they are far more likely to use a title or descriptive phrase than a name (Old Man Mortal, or Lord Death). The stories they tell of the gods are more noted for having a point than being interesting. [2] This is not that different to the Daka Fal cult, which uses reusable and teachable Rune Magic to kickstart the process of becoming a shaman. Non-cult shamans presumably come to that path as a result of a unique and likely dangerous spiritual experience[3]. [3] Which, as Monty Python once pointed out, is not a viable basic for a system of government.

Worshipping other deities, for non-wizards, never breaks caste restrictions in itself. Only actions, not beliefs, can break caste restrictions. The relevant things that do are: - non-wizards following the priest occupation. - wizards teaching anyone magic inappropriate for their caste role. The linked picture shows what are clearly Zzaburi wizard-priests; they have the Law Rune, not an Earth Rune. They are handing the King an enchanted magical object, the regalia of the kingdom. Likely that crown has inscribed spells of some form of incarnate/summon ancestor. Those are entirely appropriate spells for Zzaburi to supply to a Talar. The King may then use that ancestor magic the Right way, casting _Command Soldier_ or _Detect Loyalty_. Or they could commit a caste violation and cast _Bless Crops_. Few actually-existing Rokari would openly say that such a caste violation reflected badly on the wizard-priests who crowned him. But some would quietly think it.

Because if slavery was Right, slaves would be a caste. Which is presumably a thing someone somewhere believes. But within mainstream Malkionisn, using violence to make a worker work is inherently going to be a caste violation. A different analogy is a modern 'third world' country trying to follow a particular path of development. Instead of Brithos as a template of what the end result could look like, there is Britain. Zzaburi are scientists and engineers. Caste magic is jumbo jets, cars and smartphones. The root ideology, fundamental worldview is materialism in general, with something like liberal capitalism as specifics. Within that framework, Rokarism is the belief that the right way forwards is building a university and airport in the capital; Hrestolism is more like establishing a health clinic in every village. Other nations accept that they are not planning on mass prosperity for all; only the ruling classes and their enforcers. The others must make do with whatever worldview doesn't require the effort of having them killed. The fundamental dilemma all non-immortal Malkioni have is that training a sorceror takes at least half a lifetime, during which time they are not productive. So it is very difficult to support the number of skilled zzaburi Malkioni society actually needs to function. Say ten Dronali can materially support one Zzaburi, and one skilled Zzaburi can magically support ten Dronali. Half the Dronali are going to be without Caste magic; the Zzaburi they are supporting won't be good for anything for another 10 years. Except without that magic, they can't meet even a 10:1 support ratio, more like the 100:1 of real world ancient societies. So ever since Time, everything doesn't add up. The mainstream Malkioni solution is to accept that the lack of Zzaburi mean that most or all of the lower castes are not going to get any caste magic, so they might as well not follow caste restrictions. Just pick the least-worst options for what gods they get to follow. The radical Rokari solution is monasticism, where the best candidates from all other castes are educated intensively from an early age, at great opportunity cost. To support that, caste rules are actively enforced in the general population. This serves to maintain the Rightness of those critical zzaburi, with the goal of the best of them living longer, ideally indefinitely. At which point everyone will get their rewards for the current austerity. The radical Hrestoli solution is to have the candidate Men-Of-All work as farmers and then soldiers, so they are always being productive, or at least filling a role that would have needed to be supported anyway. Men of All aren't as good as fully trained Rokari wizards, but there can be more of them. Any progressive increase in their numbers represents the arc of history bending towards Rightness. In both cases, a lot of nominal Hrestoli and Rokari do not fully buy into the corresponding plan, and so can be more accurately described as mainstream Malkioni. Everyone knows that regiment secretly worships a misspelled version of Humakt. But so long as some level of plausible deniability is maintained, then noone gets hit with an unmanageable loss of Rightness.

I think we have been reading the same soources, but it seems reading them differently. As I see it, malkioni society can be divided into 5 groups. 4 of them are Brithini, Vadeli, Rokari and Hrestoli. Brithini society works stably for them, Vadeli are ther own thing. Rokari and Hrestoli both have aspirations to bascially become Brithini. Neither is a stable society, they will either succeed or collapse. It is all the others who are 'most Malkioni'. Almost all Malkioni accept Rune Lords of approved gods as Horali, and God Talkers as Dronals. Most Malkioni accept Rune Priests of farming gods as (socially, but not magically) Zzaburi. Fewer accept Heros of ruling gods as Talars. There are enough options to thoroughly paint the map of Western-Central Glorarantha with direrent interpretions of who society can afford to be Right. A Rune Priest acting socially as a Zzaburi has low Rightness, and so cannot benifit from the magical support of more othodox Zzaburi. But if the local Talar merely turns a blind eye to them, the caste transgression may be recoverable, and not contagious. It may not be perfectly Right, but everyone gets to eat.

It seems consistent to me, so long as you don't make additional unstated assumptions. > peasants have their own, entirely independent source of beneficial magic, which is just as good as the Sartarite kind. For it to be _as good_, it would require full time Rune Priests, with ornate temples funded by the rich. A full-time Rune Priest of a fertily/farming god would be zzaburi by occupation but dronali by magic. This would not be Right; such an individual could not receive any caste magic. If no Talar breaks caste taboos by financially supporting them, then by the rules, they top out at God Talker. For Zzabur to maintain Rightness, they can only give Caste Magic to those following caste restrictions. It would not be Right for a Zzaburi to crown a Talar who had been funding fertility temples. Just as it would not be Right for a non-Talar to own or manage land or other resources that could be used for that purpose. The core Rokari theme is Return to Rightness. They think they can get back to the stable state of all castes relying on only Caste magic. Their chosen plan for doing seems to be Zzaburi-first. Educate a sufficient quantity of skiiled Zzaburi, with high Rightness. If even a few can get to the point of being immortal, then the resource crunch facing the next generation becomes far easier. This means giving up on all the pragmatic relaxations to caste rules that make things work in the short term.