Brian Duguid

Personally, I am happy to draw "from all ages of Gloranthan publication", to quote one very insightful reviewer. For me, it's all potential inspiration, stuff to draw upon in the same manner as Nick used GRoY. Grist to the mill. Toppings for the pizza. It doesn't matter whether it's right, so long as it's useful and hangs together consistently. Sometimes even the things that feel like they'd be out-of-place still make sense when placed next to each other (pineapple? Who knew!) Having said that I tried quite hard for conistency with current canon (especially the Guide to Glorantha). I don't really care too much about canon as far as playing the game goes, but I've noticed that some others online seem to care about it a lot, and I didn't want to listen to any quibbles about "no, it's not like that". Much more importantly, I took to heart a quote from Nadia Boulanger that an architect friend of mine shared: Obviously, we're not talking great art here. But self-imposed restrictions of some sort can be a way to focus the mind, and wriggling around to test the limits of that straitjacket can, for me, inspire ideas. It also acts as a quick decision-making filter: is this consistent? No, then it's out. Or find a creative way to make it consistent. They are both considered out-of-date, but I like my myth to be enigmatic and contradictory anyway, so it feels easy to grab and adapt as required. Material on how the culture operates, on the other hand, which includes the cult affiliations, is much more likely to be contradicted in the game rules, official sourcebooks, and other scenarios. The further you depart from the current norms of the setting, the harder it is for anyone aligned with those norms to use your stuff. And much as I believe in radical visions of Glorantha, I wouldn't personally spend a lot of time writing for the Jonstown Compendium just for nobody to read it.

Here's a concrete example, not a cult nor a deity, but a repurposing of something from the HeroQuest era. In The Children of Hykim I have a short chapter on the Puma People, who were introduced into Glorantha via HeroQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha and the accompanying HeroQuest Voices publication. A Puma Person had a minor walk-on role in The Eleven Lights. They are a non-Hsunchen shapechanging people, and I think they had their origin in a story by Greg. They aren't mentioned in the Guide to Glorantha, nor any RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha book, and I feel fairly sure that they have been retconned out of existence. My JC book allows you to use them as PCs or NPCs in a RuneQuest game, should you wish. I believe what I've provided is entirely compatible with what was said in the HQ sources, but doesn't repeat any of it directly. That was a choice, it's clearly not essential. You could do the same with Durev (I can't personally see the point, but set that aside). I think there are a few key points. If Chaosium had already done a Hsunchen book for HQ, converting that across to RQ:G would not be acceptable, however much paraphrasing took place. But there is scope to repurpose, to re-imagine (emphasis on "imagine"), to expand (with permission, if the kernel of source material merits it), and so on. Most of the chapters in The Children of Hykim are massive expansions on tiny paragraphs and even throwaway lines from previous official publications. It offers readers something that doesn't compete with Chaosium's plans but is hopefully useful, creative and entertaining. So for me that would be the interesting question for Durev. There's no point just reiterating the sub-cult in RQ terms. There's possibly little point doing a book that describes "ordinary" Sartarite life, given that Chaosium will be publishing their own Sartar book, and it will hopefully be definitive. But is there scope for a book about Sartarite (or other) crafting, in a way that doesn't just conflict with Weapons & Equipment? A book that provides gameable material on craft trades, their rituals, magic, guilds, objets d'art, scenario hooks, example tradesfolk characters, etc. Riffing on The Book of Heortling Mythology, where Durev was called the Woodwright, what could that mean in an RQ:G world? The myths say that Durev himself was carved out of wood, Pinnochio style. Just who is allowed to work as a woodwright in Orlanthi culture anyway? There must be much more scope in treating this outdated old relic as a jumping-off point for something new, than there is just repeating stuff that no longer fits with how the culture and its mythos is presented.

We know there are crafts with very specific magical secrets associated with them. Heat Metal is an example, a spirit magic spell that I assume is secret to Gustbran and related cults. Gustbran also provides Furnace Fire, and makes various Enchant (Metal) magics available to Initiates, that are normally only available to Rune levels in other cults. There are skills which have a clearly stated ritual aspect and may be reserved to particular cults. Peaceful Cut is the one that jumps to mind, it is essentially Craft (Butchery) by another name. Perhaps it involves the expenditure of fractions of magic points to placate the spirit of the butchered animal. My thought is that many if not all crafts do involve "magic", the knowledge of ritual secrets and the invocation of magical power. They are not inherently simply tasks that anyone can do; but for game purposes the magical knowledge involved is simply subsumed under the skill rating itself. Craft (brewing) is not just "making and flavouring beers", but includes the minor magics involved in that process (invoking the sprit of fermentation, or whatever). Craft (masonry) incorporates sorcerous secrets stolen or learned from the dwarves. These are guild secrets, and perhaps the carpenters guild in Jonstown does invoke Orstan the Carpenter in their rites, freemasonry style. But that doesn't necessitate a cult of Orstan, let alone a sub-cult of Orlanth the Woodworker.

I found this one pretty despicable to be honest: did they genuinely think it was okay to print and resell to others copies of something they had bought a copy of only for themself? Apparently, they did.

@Lordabdul - regarding the diagram of the Gloranthan cosmos, the original version is here, drawn by Mike Dawson from an original by Greg Stafford: The layout and text is almost identical to the original, although more gods and underworld demons have been added.

Not really, and it is a nightmare to do arithmetic using them. Presumably much easier using a Roman abacus, though i.e. a tool adapted specifically to that task. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_abacus

I was just reading Temples and Towers (and you have a new review added, @M Helsdon, because it's really good and astonishing value for money). Any chance of making some of the images and floorplans from that available as JC-permitted art as well?

That one is already in hand, although nothing the discomfort this discussion has caused, I'm looking at describing two alternative outsider initiation rites for my planned black elf book. 😉.

Fairly minor, but another fanzine: Imazine #17, 1987. RuneQuest hardback, pg 17, review of the GW RQ3 hardback.

This is certainly one point of difference. I didn't see it as cruel, any more than I see real-world ritual (and non-ritual) activities that involve piercing, scarification, tattooing and the prolonged endurance of pain as inherently cruel. As Effy asks, it's reasonable to query whether human initiation to Aldrya must only involved transformation, or whether a membership / allegiance option is possible. I don't have any issue with both options being possible. But if it's about transformation, we shouldn't shy away from the rites being genuinely transformative.

Controversial, no. But the real world comparison only assists to a point. It tells us that a process such as that described for elf transformation is credible in as much as it reflects experiences we have often seen described in the real world: it's not out-and-out bizarre. That is, it's consistent with a magical description of our own reality, although not with a scientific description. But Glorantha is entirely a magical reality. The real-world comparison helps in establishing credibility, but tells us nothing about whether the elf initiation rite is appropriate in Glorantha's own terms. I'm happy that it definitely is, and that it would be a duller world otherwise. If an elf wandered into this initiation rite and the candidate was not being properly disembowelled, they'd know both that cheating was taking place, and also that it simply could not work. I'm not trying to convince you of my perspective, and IRL I hold no religious or spiritual faith at all. I'm very happy that people come at this in different ways. But I wanted to acknowledge that some reaction (it's surgery, mutilation etc, and therefore not somehow appropriate) suggest an unsympathetic approach to equivalent beliefs in our own world (it's not mutilation, it's rebirth).

As already noted, there are plenty of accounts like this one. I imagine that "their own people" believed that this is exactly what was done, and that they considered it to be magical, not lunatic. I sympathise with the point about transference of how rituals are conceived and perceived between IRL and Glorantha being sometimes problematic. But I find it odd that we consider it unremarkable in Glorantha that limbs can be regrown, people resurrected, wounds instantaneously closed, etc, but that other magical transformations of the body are somehow suspect. For me, that's a very real-world modern mindset, and I find that approach to Glorantha odd in itself. Each to our own!

Your Marsupials May Vary, of course.

For anyone following QW here and not elsewhere, @Ian Cooper has been posting a couple of updates over on Mastodon. 19th Dec: 20th Dec: In other QW news, Shawn Carpenter (of the withdrawn QW product on Jonstown Compendium, Valley of Plenty) is playtesting a superhero version of QW, and recently shared this news, along with some art:

It might have been easier to simply name them something else if it wasn't the intention to evoke the significant features of the real-world analogue 😄. IMG, they are very definitely a pouched marsupial, the last (known) survivor of the Pouched Beasts, and the only one who successfully journeyed north from Pamaltela into Genertela. The Oppossum Hsunchen are included in The Children of Hykim, for what that's worth, with a background myth, pouch-related magic, and much more.

In the Guide (page 19), the Pralori are said to hunt opossums. I'm personally happy that they are the marsupial exception to the broader rule.

I do hope you mean human adventurers. Otherwise there's some weird stuff going on round your table 😲. But if it's causing anyone a problem, there's absolutely no need to change their existing game. Just rule it as YGWV.

Quick question / suggestion: could a human initiate to Flamal in a manner that doesn't require the Aldryami transformation, and become an elf-friend that way?

Love it! Half-way between Swamp Thing (in its gruesome horror period) and one of the shamanic initiation rites described in Eliade.

Version 1.2 of The Children of Hykim is now available on DriveThruRPG. The revised version includes one more tribe (the Gord-un gopher people), a new story, two art pieces increased to double-page spreads, and corrections and amendments to various sections. It also has an absolutely wonderful new cover by Kristi Jones. Existing customers will find the new version in their DTRPG library immediately. The book is also now available Print-on-Demand, in both Premium and Standard colour hardcover editions! If you like the book, please, please, please do leave a star rating and if possible a review!

I think the cults are compatible, for the reason given: Uleria was the mother of Shanassee, and is referred to in at least one place as the Grower. But I think she will be "seen" very differently by the Aldryami than by humans.

There is very brief speculation about the various lost marsupial tribes in the write-up for the Opossum Hsunchen in The Children of Hykim.

In addition to the Yak, Tiger and Deer people, Hsunchen of the East also features the Bat Folk (Pujaleg), they were added in an update. There's more eastern Hsunchen information in The Teshnos Companion, but I've not read that yet so I'm not sure what exactly, and it looks like it's only 5 pages out of 80+. I'd like to do further volumes of my own book but two books covering very similar material for Kralorela / Teshnos in different ways don't seem to be worthwhile especially given the small audience for topics away from the middle of Genertela anyway. Much the same would be true for Pamaltela, although it does have some fascinating Hsunchen tribes!

Hopefully this is nearly there. While waiting, here's how two copies of the POD look on a shelf. #WhichWayWillYouShelveIt?

That's my favourite quote with respect to Glorantha, to be honest. If it's not contradicting itself, it's not the Glorantha that got me interested in the first place. There is at least one such person depicted on the cover of the hopefully-imminent Print-on-Demand version, possibly more. And this desire to reintegrate their Beast / "Man" aspects is also discussed in that book, in the section on Hsunchen Heroquests on pages 124-126 (in the current edition - it will be on pages 132-135 for anyone reading this after the revised edition comes out).