David Scott

I don't use either of the first option. I run plenty of extended contests am interested in reading the thread on RPGnet, however the link appears to be missing. The rules are just a framework, so GM style will certainly affect how the contest is played out. Personally I never set them up, they are always an outcome from the heroes actions and interaction with the storyline. What can start off as an auto success can easily escalate to a simple contest then to an extended contest and back again. It's the players buy in that's important with regard to the story presented.

So you sponsored it for 13G and we used it in HeroQuest Glorantha. How time flies.

Looking at the picture: This appears to be a small three step pyramid. This easily fits the Guide description of a "Once a simple altar shared by the Orlanthi and Praxians" It's not complex and not very big, each step could be 8 foot. Given that it is Orlanthi as well as Praxian, it likely has no roof. As it's very overgrown at the back, so it's likely built into a rise so is not a full pyramid. It has similarities to sections of the hanging gardens of Babylon just the stairs and steps: I would posit that it's a god time structure, perhaps the home of a minor deity. Or built / modified by the Theylan missionaries after the Dawn as a cross cultural meeting point with the nomads. I feel that modification is a better story. It was eclipsed in power once the Paring Stones were rediscovered.

Well remembered Martin, although it's from HeroQuest Glorantha page 100. Pimper's block has taken on a new life. Once the sand and earth had been cleared away by Lunar researchers and their slave diggers, it revealed that the altar was in fact the the roof cap of a small ziggurat.

I'm not sure I'd call that politics - that's military might. Do it or we defile your sacred sites. In hindsight I've actually removed the word secret from that section. Inire the Red didn't really care about the job. The title was just a perk. It wasn't secret that Roneer the Hue had taken over his duties - everyone could see that. The Paps Khan has little real power and to wield even that he needs to be at the Paps. Moonbroth had more hedonistic delights. Reading the cult write up in Cults of Prax, I don't get any real sense of this happening. The Paps cult of Eiritha is far removed from the tribal cult. It even says that some of the Paps priestesses are not trusted within the tribes. The Paps has no real khans of its own. The tribes are independent tied in by their shared mythology. The Paps is not the centre of a centralised cult. The Paps is a very different to Nochet. This dealt with within the tribes. I don't think this is Paps involved stuff.

No. This place isn't complex It's a low block of rock carved with orlanthi and Praxian runes - an altar from the god time. It was the original meeting place of the Praxians and Theylan missionaries after the Dawn. Unusually it doesn't have a stream feeding the oasis although it's a fertile as the rest of Prax. The only other area like it is the long dry which is actually drier than normal for Prax. It has a spring in a pool. There's no permanent nomad settlement, a semi-perminent Issaries market (5-10 people)and a permanent Oasis folk settlement. Roughly 1000 Oasis Folk here (10 oases in Prax, Monkey Ruins has none, 12 oases in the Wastes, Daka's Creek has none, so 20000 Oasis Folk spread between 20 oases = 1000 per oasis. Made up of the standard split 500 children, 250 men, 250 women). Oasis folk live in simple hovels. Each oasis has a different style. Lack of wood will really challenge building design. Some styles will be sunken, underground, packed earth, adobe, thatch, etc. The nomad clan currently in control of the oasis at that time of the year will likely be present nearby until they move off and are replaced by the next group following their migration route. The slave market is entirely dependant on surrounding circumstances. Depending on the time period you are playing in and the season. Refugees are pouring in from sartar during the lunar occupation. However I'd say maybe 10 or so every 1 to 2 weeks at a push. Just make up what you need.

The position is for life, she's selected by the Goddess. She spends most of her life in ceremony and rarely leaves the Paps. Her goal is the serve the goddess. I'm unsure what politicking you could involve her in. I've posted them before. Maybe tomorrow.

There are three sections to the Paps complex: The inside (initiates and above only, no men), the Vestibule (male and female initiates) and the outside. The inside is deep temple complex with an entrance to the underworld. The Paps was originally just Eiritha's Necropolis and temple. With the destruction of Genert's Palace, it took in the Godly refugees and survivors from there and became something new. At the Dawn it became the exit for those who slept in the Goddesses' Dream. The deeper you go the more otherworld it will become, the main temple guardian is of course Babeester Gor and her followers. The Vestibule is part that most nomads think of as the Paps. It has a great crumbling temple to Eiritha and shrines to her mother and sisters. Simple cells here house the devout. Outside is an oasis fed by the Paps of the Goddess herself, small herds of all her beasts live within the Sacred Ground, tended by her Priestesses and Khans. Simple gardens of plants, shrubs and trees dot the area. There is a simple tent village for the Paps Khan and another Storm Khan when they are here. Visiting nomads set up further out. The land here is lush and green. Further out still is the foreigners camp. Herd Guard are always active within the Sacred Ground. There's no map as this changes all the time. It is not a permanent camp as the nomads are forbidden to do this. All that is fixed is the Stream, the pond it fills and the facade of the complex. Here are two pictures of Petra that I use for inspiration. Please note that the land is green here and not the parched land of Petra, add palm trees and horticulture, herds and tents. The entrance to the Vestibule The main camp area - fill it with green, palm trees and horticulture, herds and tents. The face is rocky as here but the land above is pasture. The caves in the foreground is where the large pond would be with the stream snaking down via small waterfalls.

So one thing at a time from the current draft and my thoughts Egajia is Most Respected Elder (MRE) from 1572 until her death in 1627. Her death ends the eighth cycle of elders (she's number 48 since the Dawn). When it comes to the MRE there are no politics. She is chosen by Eiritha herself and is for all intents and purposes Eiritha in the Middle world. After the Liberation of Pavis, Jaldon marries Egajia in a great ceremony witnessed by many thousands of nomads at the Paps. By 1627 he is back in Dragon Pass with Argrath fighting the Lunars. Egajia dies in 1629 and Jaldon is no longer the absent Paps Khan, he's just absent. The new Most Respected Elder is an Impala Priestess and she doesn't take Jaldon as her husband. She starts the ninth cycle of Most Respected Elders.

I took @Joerg to mean that Jaldon is suspiciously absent from King of Sartar after page 16 :-)

As long as it gets published otherwise YGMV. I don't think it's suspicious. Argrath uses him for what he needs, I suspect he dies early on. He's not a major player, he's of no use to the Praxians as he always heads off to raid. Raiding is a fundamental practice to Praxians. Raiding also includes foreigners, but mostly other tribes. One of Waha's Tasks is Waha the Raider. "His curse is that he can never again enter his beloved Prax" and the Battle was in Prax and he's not mentioned in as being there, so yes. I also suspect that Jaldon's brother, Tyras the Blind wizard is connected to the Pol-Joni mystery.

Here's are the Ages of Jaldon: 890-900 Childhood 900-917 The Way of Waha 917-925 Rise of the Raider Khan 925-950 Warrior Bison Khan 950-955 Reluctant Paps Khan 955- 960 Dragon Pass Raider I believe Jaldon is dead and cursed by the EWF by around 960 (aged around 70). 960-1624 Ghost Khan. For 660 years, ten time longer than his active life in the tribe, Jaldon is Ghost Khan. He sets off with passing raiders into Dragon Pass, dies uncounted times and restarts at his burial cairn. He’s cut off from the tribes and remains an anachronism from an earlier time. 1624-1629 Reluctant Paps Khan. On his return the Goddess declares Jaldon Paps Khan once again. He marries Egajia in a great ceremony witnessed by many thousands of nomads at the Paps. By 1627 he is back in Dragon Pass with Argrath fighting the Lunars. Egajia dies in 1629 and Jaldon is no longer the absent Paps Khan, he's just absent. The new Most Respected Elder is an Impala Priestess and she doesn't take Jaldon as her husband. Jaldon dies in Dragon Pass and after a 700 year wait finally appears in the Great Herd at Waha's side..

The later. Jaldon was not a regular Bison Khan. He proved himself Waha incarnated after his initiation, he had powers no other nomad has demonstrated since. It was these that allowed his rise to power. His problem was that he didn't want the power, he wanted to raid and that was eventually his downfall. Exactly. He is over 600 years adrift from Praxian society, he's not dead and he's not exactly alive. He never gets to the afterlife in the Great Herd, as he's tormented by his curse. He can't go back to the Wastes. He's held up as one of the greatest Khans, but is not interested leading except as a means to an end. it's not ironic at all if you consider what his lineage might be and why his power place is where it is. It's clear that Derik knows some secret of Jaldon's. How could that be? Derik was a powerful Heroquester too, but it goes beyond that.

Carrying this over from

That's certainly a possibility for the "may have" years. It was a time of "a troubled life of adventure". A lot of stuff was happening for the nomads between 907 and 920, three waves of refugees flooded into Prax and the Wastes caused by the Two-Year Winter in Dragon Pass in 907, refugees from war-torn Peloria and the Windless Typhoon that struck Dragon Pass in 917. Pavis took as many in as they could and settled many in the lands south of the city angering the tribes, the remainder were rich pickings for the tribes as slaves to be sold on. WIth the founding of the Zebra tribe in 1860, the arrowsmith Dynasty became Praxians themselves and in 914 the Most Respected Elder at the Paps was a Zebra Priestess of Eiritha. The other tribes were raging. The Zebra's had sole access to Paragua's grazing within the city walls. I see Jaldon building his power base amongst the Bison Tribe in those years. He very quickly became Tribal Khan after becoming a khan. He is the most vocal against the Zebras and the city.

Yes as I said in the timeline, he receives home from a quest to the Green age, between 950-955.

Jaldon's timeline (greatly edited down) 890 Born on Waha's Birthnight. Bison tribe. 907 initiated in to the cult of Waha (Task of Waha and the Statues). 922 Begins raiding raiding Pavis and the river valley farmers. 923 Becomes a Waha khan (Waha the Raider). 924 leads invasion of Bison Riders, defeated by King Yanas. 925 Waha’s Birth Night, begins the year long Task of Waha’s Visionquest. 926 Waha’s birth night he is pulled from Eiritha’s earth womb by the Earth Witch. He is Waha Reborn. He displays his worthiness to be Bison Khan with the return of the Four Weapons of Waha; an unusual three-bladed sword, his oddly-shaped throwing discs, a lance which leaps out to reach its foe, and his pole lasso made from the hair of Eiritha herself. His awkward smile is changed and from now on he is called Jaldon Goldentooth. From across Prax many rally to his cause. 927 Jaldon leads a huge army of nomads against the city of Pavis. The zebra cavalry meet them in the fields south of the city and are destroyed. Siege of Pavis begins. 928-929 EWF send three small armies to attempt to liberate the city but each is repelled. 930 to 935 Many groups try to escape. Many succeed but as many are slaughtered. Mallia rises in the city. Jaldon and King Yanor meet on the Summit of Small Kings outside the city where Jaldon offers terms for surrender and ransom. King Yanor rejects and vows to fight on. Later Yanor is assassinated by demons. His son Jaran becomes king. 940 Jaldon returns to the Plateau of Statues (Task of Waha and the Statues). He returns from the Otherside to his power place with the Eating Statues. Pavis falls amid a horrendous bloodbath (25k dead) 950-955 Reluctant Paps Khan. After his great successes, Jaldon was naturally a candidate for Paps Khan. In 950 on the accession of Karataan Bison Mother as Most Respected Elder, Jaldon was chosen by the Goddess to be her husband. He struggled with the position, being tied to the Paps did not suit his warrior nature. But he used his position to best support the tribes. During this time he returns from the Green Age with Home - birthed by the Goddess herself. He spends his time training his armies, instigating war games to teach them new tactics and tricks. He established the home hearths for the five tribes to allow the nomads practice defending fixed positions. These have become mistaken by outsiders to be the Tribal Altars of the Major tribes, of which there are no such fixed things. (Nomad Gods). On the death of the most respected Elder he was released. His unification of the divergent tribes under his rule as Paps Khan had created an efficient fighting force. His armies surged behind him into Dragon Pass. After many years of raiding and plundering, the desperate EWF killed and dismembered him, his remnants taken to his powerplace and the curse in place. The only time he could be away for several years would be 940-950, but then he was cementing his power base as Bison Khan. I don't believe he ever went to the far east. That's just a rumour that foreigners put about, as how could a nomad become that powerful without help. He could of gone to the East as part of Waha's Visionquest, but that is normally based wholly in the Wastes and Prax (Waha's Demesne). But then it would of been a tiny small part. Making him older is one option giving him time from his initiation to the start of his raiding but he could be younger as well, making him a rare old before his time child hero (for MGF). However, this timeline is the one I'm currently using.

Revisiting this -where is the reference for this ?

I’ve a yet unpublished timeline of Jaldon, I’ll see if I can put an outline of it here.

Don’t think it really matters. He could return from either as a crazed mystic. For MGF I’d have him go from one to the other. One sets the scene for his enlightenment, the other triggers it. As long as it has teeth and allows him to get his cool weapons.

Jaldon is newly restored Paps Khan (again) at this moment. So he is effectively Waha. I don’t think that any other considerations count at this moment. As there are no auspicious days around the dark moon, I think that it likely that it’s in the lead up to the seven mothers holy day, so when it falls, the Lunars loose their magics and can’t regain them. I’d don’t intend to pin down the actual days of the siege and fall as it’s clearly a player led event. Up to you to decide when.

hurrah

I set the poll to end on 01/06/2018 to give time for RQG to appear then we can have a compare and contrast poll later next year. When I pressed the publish button, it set it to a few days later. I only noticed when it closed and it's not possible to reset it. Perhaps the interval I set was too long?

As to the actual time in Storm season, likely around a black moon as Argrath is familiar with fighting the Lunars, also likely an auspicious day for Waha or Orlanth.

There is another reference to this missing from the wiki in Gathering Thunder, Sartar Rising, Volume 3. In fact it's an adventure to the Slave Farm itself (no spoilers). It's destruction was by my players - they caused the Nymie river to rise up and wash the camp and manor away after rescuing the slaves. IIRC they killed Overash. If you don't own a copy - the PDF is really cheap from Chaosium https://www.chaosium.com/gathering-thunder/ What it used to look like. It can easily be part of the Colymar campaign and some of the book could be used with the coming storm/eleven lights.