Atgxtg

I agree. I'm thinking something along the lines of trading off INT for STR. So: Chimpanzees INT 2D6+5, STR 3D6+1 Orangutans INT 2D+4, STR 3D6+2 Gorrilas INT 2D6+3, STR 3D6+3

Or.... we could assume that the time travel trip in movie #3 altered the course of the timeline and lead to a different future. That was somewhat hinted at through the course of the films. THere are a lot of ways to put it together. The big difference between the films and TV series is that the humans in the films weren't used as slaves, but viewed as pests. They also did seem to be lacking in Intelligence, being about as clever as most primates (role reversal). Even Nova's intellecgence and ability to eventually speak puts her at about "Cave Man" level. Certainly a few INT points below a ape or home sapien. That is one reason why the apes were able to trap them so easily.

They made me happy. The book even got to me fairly fast. I wish more companies would bundle the PDF with the hardcopy. Either for free (as SotC does now) or at a slight increase in cost.

I know. And it's now in the public domain. If I were a smart businessman instead of someone who enjoys RPGs, I'd shut up, take the Western stuff online, and work up a Phatom Empire RPG supplment. Then see about statting it up for BRP, MRQ, Spirirt of the Century, HERO and any other Pulp and/or Western RPG. But, no I'll probably do a short Phantom Empire chapter for the Old West thing. The hard bit is probably going to work game time right so the PCs can do their radio show on time, so they don't loose the ranch.:eek:

Yup. That is also why more successful PDF RPGs tend to have lower prices. SotC even had a bundle package where you could buy both the hardcopy and the PDF . That was ideal. That way you could DL the book and read it while waiting for your hardcopy to arrive. THe PDF is also useful if you have a laptop. One thing that I dislike about a lot of RPGs is the sheer number of books a GM needs to lug around. Esepcially in RPGs where each "group" has it's own group book. A player's book, GM's book, beastiary, equipment guide, setting book, and you are halfway to a hernia.

Indeed. And the poblem with variables is that they vary. Personally, I'm getting fond of pdfs with clear plastic covers and a plastic spiral binding. It is durable, water resistant when closed, and can be laid down flat.

Not necessarily. I think there is plenty of "life" in the genre to begin with. Zombies and such are certainly fine for alternate takes on things, but I wouldn't want to make the part of the "core" setting. Doing so just sticks people who don't want them with them. I wouldn't mid seeing a Phantom Empire supplment, with a underground hi-tech society, or a lost valley of Dinosaurs, or Native American medicine men with a "Ghost Dance" that works. But I think it is better to keep them as separate add ons. That way the rest of the setting us more useful. The idea of being operated on in a era with limited anesthetics, no antibiotics, and where Doctors didn't wash their hands before operating scares me. It no wonder why the motility rates were so high. It wasn't the bullet that killed you, it was the physician who treated the bullet wound.

I agree. That is why I did up rules for quick draws and gun-spinning. Realistically, neither had much bearing in the Old West. Both are staples of the genre. The old West that most people seem to want to roleplay would be more like the West of dime novels, radio, TV and film. In fact, I'd say that the western genre has probably been warped by the enterainment indusrty more than any other. To those who want a really accurate histocial Old West, well, expect to be bored. 90% of the people were farmers, and most of thier lives consisted of working on the farm and coming into contact with the farm animals and the other family members. Any sort of playable campaign that won't put people to sleep would require some sort of atypical situation. Practically all of the "exciting" times and places in the Old West were atypical. That's why they were remembered. The Gunfight at the O.K. Corral is remembered because it was a fairly unique occurance, not because it was a commonplace one. A completely realistic RPG would be even duller than a completely realistic modern RPG. BTW, THat is one reason why I don't take much stock in the "purist" who hate "Spaghetti" Westerns. The John Wayne style westerns were if anything, less authentic that the violent "Spaghetti" westerns. Basically most TV and Film westerns are an idealized 1930s-1950s USA on horseback, with six shooters. More like what Leave it to Beaver would have been like in the 19th century than what the real west was like.

Not necessarily. If the apes can manufacture clip fed rifles, firing metallic cartridges then they have the capability to produce automatic weapons. They may or may not have the knowledge or inclination to do so. If man is only a animal, and apes don't fight wars with other apes, then there is no reason to invent a machinegun. Or, since what we know is mostly what we see through Talyor's eyes, apes could have machineguns, but we just didn't see them. Auctually both approaches could be used in a single campaign. In the film Dr. Zaius was concered about the possible existence of advanced humans. Since we see the human mutants in the series, and Nova develops the ability to speak, it is possible that there could be humans of various mental abilites in groups throughout the planet. The ape society of the films and TV series do not span the globe. A GM could have a dozen ape communities or more with just as many groups of humans. Considering just how little is given about Amerihk in the Hawkmoon books, a GM could probably run an ape campaign on Tragic Millineium Earth.

No really. Historically you almost never saw someone carrying a "backup" sword. Generally weapons didn't break as opten as in RQ2. THat's why I prefer RQ3's AP ratings. Actually breaking a sword requires either a lot of abuse or a good vice.

For me, part of it was the fact that the "dominant" species are something that we humans consider ourselves superior to, at least intellectually. I don't think the films would have worked as well if the apes were just some sort of alien. It is the "topsy-turvy" nature of things that is responsible for much of the appeal. That the advanced culture is technologically inferior to our own adds a nice ironic twist. Basically we know we are more advanced. That it is our Earth is the icing on the cake. We can see how our future will unfold and to such a senseless, undesirable end. I think to get the proper feel for an "Apes-like" campaign, the protagonists would need to come from a more advanced culture, and one where the dominant species of the planet are a less advanced species on the protagonist's world.

PK. why don't you learn something about what you are talking about. Mike Pondsmith isn't jumpong on the "evil TSR bandwagon". You are jumping to conclusions. My comment on the Buck Rogers game was taken from a bio on Pondsmith written years ago by his coworders at R Talsorian, with the comment that if he ever starts to come off as too proud or coocky about his work, mention the Buck Rodgers game. So before you are sure of something, you should learn the facts and not just make assumptions. As for the Buck Rodgers RPG, okay. So you like the game. Fine. Does anyone else?

Ah. Okay. The Villar Perosa is dated 1914 and has been introduced to service in 1915. There were new models in 1915, 1916 and 1917. The MP18 is dated, guess what, 1918.

I'd consider the Mauser C96 to be the first submachinegun. The difference between machine pistol and SMG are rather vague. There were also a few other designs like the MP18 that could make claims to the VIlliar Persoa's title. The technology was really available since at least the mid 19th century if not earlier. It just took so logng for people to consider the idea as worthwhile.

Well, depending on if the Gatling count counts or not, automatic weapons came into use either in 1861 or 1884 when Hiram Maxim invested the first Machinegun. Writing up Ape weapons would be easy. I know the Hero props for the filsm were based on a real rifle (so they could fire blanks). I'm not sure of the actual caliber, but suspect some variant of .30 caliber. PArty becuase in the real world at around the turn of the 20th century, everybody was using what was essentially the same rifle. The 1903 Springfield, British SMLE, and Gewr 98 are all basically the same design. I'll do up rifle and pistol stats if people want them. Maybe I can did up my copy of Aftermath and see if it helps with Ape stats for BRP?

Technically speaking if you run an ape culture at the level of the film series, you are roughly close to late 19th-early 20th century. Historically, that was the high point of the bolt action rifle. It is just the best design for what it was intended to so. Machineguns, and even submachineguns (machine pistols) did exist back then. Since the films has a strong moral code of "Ape shall not kill ape" that the apes do seem to live up to, the the absence of autofire weapons is probably more a matter of choice. If there isn't another culture to wage war against, there is really no need for machineguns. Rifles are probably used more for defense or hunting, and so a bolt action rifle is a good choice. Hunting with a submachinegun is impractical and so such weapons would be rare. Probably a hold over weapon is case there is some unknown danger.

Now you are being unfair. I never said Pondsmith was bitching about it. Only that he isn't proud of it. And I'd rather hire someone like Pondsmith who can produce good quality RPG stuff than the typical no talent work for hire guy that is flooding the market with D20 crap today. I've seen a lot of "professionals" who shut their mouth and do what they are told. Not just in Gaming, either. I saw it at a hostpial where it put people's lives as risk, and continues to do so. Personally, I'd rather deal with someone who is honest than someone who sugarcoats things for the benefit of the company. I think we've seen enough of that with MRQ.

From what I read, it wasn't designed that way entirely by his choice. When you do work for hire the end product has to please the client. In this case the client was TSAR and the end product was written to meet their expectations. Pondsmith doesn't consider the game worth taking pride in, and I can't say as I blame him. Still, it's not as bad as the Indiana Jones RPG that TSR put out.

Wow! I'm surprised that you like that game. That makes you the first I've ran into. Even the author hated it (if you even want to embarrass Mike Pondsmith, bring it up).

It's one reason why I don't like "urban" cowboys. To me they are just as silly as people walking around in Star Trek costumes. Perhaps a bit more. As for the genre, well, fantasy probably outdoes Western in being artificial, immature, and hero-centric. Probably most of your popular settings are like that. Probably due to the escapist nature of RPGs. Most people don't want to play in a real life setting where their actions don't really matter. We don't need to play a game for that.

Reminds me of a scene in "Abbot & Costello Meet the Killer". Lou is under hypnosis and being ordered to commit suicide yet consistently manages to thwart the command. "Perhaps you would like to choose your own manner of death? Very well, how would you like to die?" "Old age."

Ironically, the "Marky Mark" version is closer to the orignal concept. The Apes were supposed to have an advanced culutre. The whole low tech thing of the first film was to keep costs down, and the twist ending was something added to the film during production.

It's been done. Aftermath had stats. If you match the movies you don't need much to do it.

I could see marching as a skill. That's why the Romans practiced it. I think it makes as much sense as any other physical skill. The more you do it the more accustomed to get to doing it, and the longer you can do it without getting tired. It isn't all CON.

(Sorry I missed this comment eariler..l.). Actually, most people did. While the image of the Old West has Cowboys and Gunfighters packing six-guns, history is different. Not everyone carried a revolver. Just about everybody carried a knife. For every gunfight, we had dozens of knife fights. If we wanted to be completely true to history, we should probably drop gunfighters and cowboys from the profession tables. Just too rare. It seems that at their heyday there were less than 40,000 Coybows in the Old West. That is about 1 person per 1000, at best.