Joerg

I don't think that the two terms are interchangeable. Demigods could be quite minor in their powers, and you can be born a demigod (like e.g. Siglat or Moonson, or Kallyr's son). Both Harrek and Jar-eel are demigods, too - Jar-eel by birth, Harrek by fusion with Rathor's pelt. But none of the other demigods like e.g. the Red Emperor have battle powers or magic control anywhere in the vicinity. The Red Emperor is both a demigod and a capital H Hero. Argrath is a capital H Hero, as is Ironhoof, Ethilrist, or the (incoming) Feathered Horse Queen. Worshiped heroes are just that, not even warranting a capital H yet - think of Hofstaring Treeleaper, for instance. If their cult gets big enough, they might be Great Living Heroes like Renvald Meldekbane or Hachrat Blowhard were in the Second Age. Both (super)heroes and demigods may wield immense magical powers. That doesn't break the Compromise, as they are operating inside Time obeying its rules. Neither does Kero Fin embodied in her mountain, or the various masks/cognates of Lodril embodied in theirs. Orlanth's manifestation as the world hurricane is as much part of the Compromise as is Yelm making his loops overhead. Killing a normal god (like the God of the Silver Feet) doesn't necessarily break the Compromise (although it does break the world, at least regionally). Killing a "universal deity" like Orlanth at Whitewall may scratch at breaking it. Manifesting a deity unleashed does break the compromise. Palangio going beyond acting as the avatar of Daysenerus at the Battle of Night and Day, and the uz manifesting the Black Eater at the same time and place. Renvald manifesting Orlanth in response to the Flesh Machine achieving godhead without ascension. The Red Goddess raising the moon definitely broke both the compromise and the world. (But then, the world is quite broken, anyway.) Bringing back Genert could be done without breaking the Compromise, but on the other hand, it is quite unlikely that whoever achieves that will care much about the Compromise. The Bridling of Kargzant late in the First Century apparently did not break the Compromise. But what was that huge barbarian warrior? Trained to be one of the next Egi? 😉 Pluripresence is a power that already capital H heroes and demigods can manifest, according to Arcane Lore, but Ralzie is unusual in having three in the mundane plane. But then, he is his own Shadow, and the mirage in between, too.

The Griffin Warrior agate might depict something like that. At least, the dynamics in that find remind my of Dürer's Fechtbuch.Those bronze blades ending in a round attachment part for a handle to rivet on appear to forbid slashing, at least without the chance for the handle getting unattached from the blade. A weapon like that might require quite a bit of instruction. I'll speculate about possible sources for Malkioni unarmed combat practices in a separate topic.

Attract Magic and Attract Missiles are a sorcerer's friends in the face of hostiles, and a protective circle with wards against the typically encountered runes and spirit magic will be nice, too. A team of field sorcerers probably has a few lower ranking members tasked with setting up the attraction targets (possibly adding Castback to the poor recipient of the Attract Magic) and providing the protective circle(s - you might have them layered, with attack spells against intruders). Sorcerers trained for this kind of interactions will come prepared. Fortunately, such units are fairly rare. Unfortunately, people like Argrath appear to attract such people, whether as allies or foes. Sir Narib's Company probably travels with such preparations made and regularly refreshed... and so do the Imperial Colleges.

Travel times: I would use the movement rates given in the Dragon Pass boardgame (or repeated in Martin Helsdon's Armies and Enemies of Dragon Pass) for overland travel. If they join a caravan or mule train, 3 hexes a day plus road bonus (double distance for a primary road, half again for a secondary road) sounds about right. Unaccompanied, they might travel up to twice as fast (heroic movement in the boardgame is six hexes, ignoring adversarial terrain effects but benefitting from roads). Sea travel can be a lot faster, if you want to offer that. Unless the winds are quite adversarial, the sailing trip from Nochet to Karse should take no more than two days. At least IMG the newtlings of Frog Island offer food and small trade items to ships at anchor or on the beach at or near Frog Island. Upriver travel in a barge or river boat might be about as fast as a caravan on a secondary road. It could be slower. River travel allows the transport of quite bulky luggage. There are portages - especially on the Runnel River stretch, IIRC - which might make changing boats faster than going through all that effort. For encounters, a troll merchant with is insect train is a possibility on either route. Piracy or highway robbery is a possibility. It may be as little as an unauthorized toll collection, or as bad as an ambush planning to take all possessions and the ransom (or selling the captives as slaves). Or, depending on the attackers, to eat them. Prior to 1613, the ducks are upstanding citizens of the conquered lands of Sartar, and can move about without having to fear for their beaks. This may allow you to present them in a slightly different light. Joining a caravan or travel group allows you to confront your player with travel companions who may be in trouble, or cause trouble to your travelers. Same thing for boarding a ship or boat not in their exclusive service (and even then, the crew may be either, too). Getting into the traveling group offers some roleplaying opportunities, too. Traveling on your own makes you a lot more vulnerable to ambushes etc.

The easier routes involve water travel. Either they can board a river boat (or a series of river boats) to bring them up the Lyksos, New and Creek-Stream rivers to Duck Point, and the royal highway from there, or they can take a ship to Karse, and possibly a river barge up the Marzeel halfway to Smithstone, and then use Tarkalor's road and the royal highway to Boldhome. For the riverine route, up to New Crystal City, the boaters could be human, but (IMG at least) from New Crystal upriver the boaters need to be Durulz or possibly Newtlings, or take on some beast-man pilot (in all likelihood a duck), as the inhabitants of Beast Valley don't react that friendly to humans traveling through Beast Valley unaccompanied. The travelers could use roads into the Esrolian March and the Grazelands, avoiding most of Beast Valley, or avoid it completely through Exile territory and the dragonewt wilds, coming in from Runegate or Dangerford. Any combination of road travel and river travel is possible on the western route. The eastern route doesn't have to go to Karse, Jansholm is another possible point of debarkation, as is any other port east/south of Karse. A ship from Nochet could bypass Karse and sail a bit up the Marzeel. There are quite likely smugglers who use such a route. Depending on the size of that vessel, Vingaford might be a possible destination. The best route would be past the Derensev library in Volsaxiland (possibly a desired stop-over for the three bookworms in the party) and Whitewall towards Wilmskirk, and then through the Sambari pass on the royal highway. A somewhat crazy, yet still possible route would be to Corflu, up the Zola Fel to Pavis, and then using the Pavis Road for a northerly entry into Sartar, or any other chaparral crossing east of the Storm Mountains. You would have the need to hide from pursuers or an intermediate goal to take such a detour, though. If you send your party up the western route, they might be caught in the troubles of the local Lhankor Mhy temple in New Crystal City that offers a tie-in to some notable characters in Balazar. (Massive spoilers in white type follow: The sage Bluebird gets wrongly accused of having stolen documents from the local temple. Valka Runewolf is his missing companion. The culprits are Halcyon var Enkorth and Mrusa the Shrew can be found in Elkois.) Another waypoint that might be of interest to your sages would be Arkat's Last Fort, especially if one of them has a contact to the House of Black Arkat. You might offer that as a possible source for learning some less usual sorcery. If your game is set prior to 1616, you could use the Fish Road from Nochet to the City of Wonders, and onward to Backford. I am not sure what the status of the fish roads is after the disappearance of the City of Wonders in 1624. It might be possible that the junction to the Wonder Transfer was a branch of that system rather than its nexus, or possibly a truncated Wonder Transfer still exists after 1624. The isolation of the City of Wonders after 1616 may not have affected fish road traffic between the three branches going out from beneath the City of Wonders. But then, the rainbow bridges aren't really usable any more after 1616, either, except by the magical rulers of the sixths, and the Guide still presents them with its 1621 timestamp. Fun places to have "interesting" stuff happen on the way are many. Karse is a bustling port city, much like Nochet, with as many opportunities to get dragged into sinister things. Possibly even a shanghaiing onto a southbound ship (but then, so do Nochet and the City of Wonders). No idea how prominent Broyan would be in Whitewall prior to 1613. In 1613, he appears to be already in position to offer the exiles from Larnste's Table a position in his entourage. Depending on your plans with that party, you could arrange for an audience. And possibly receive a mission on the way, like e.g. a small detour to the Sun Dome Temple on his behalf. Derensev is one of the Great Libraries of Lhankor Mhy. For scholars from Nochet probably less interesting as a repository of documents and more as a pilgrimage site, or possibly a source of special magics. The eastern route has a couple of promising ruins along its path, too. The City of Lylket was home to an important Lhankor Mhy temple in the Second Age, specializing on troll lore (but overlooking that it was built above troll tunnels, which led to its conquest from the Shadow Plateau in 907, and its subsequent abandonment). The cyclopean walls of Old Karse sit below the cliffs of the Shadow Plateau, and are a pilgrimage site for the boaters of Karse. A mostly abandoned city n ruins always harbors some small dungeoneering opportunities.

Belintar's epithet "the Stranger" makes it unlikely for any of the six parts of Kethaela to claim him as a native. That said, his facial features appear to be Wareran (almost undistinguishable from the guy in the center of the five elemental representatives. But then, is that guy really the God Forgot representative, or is it a repetition of Belintar? And what is that dragon head below (or if you flip the image, to the left of) the Islander head doing in this image, and why isn't it mentioned in the explanations?) Prince of Sartar presents Belintar as blue-skinned (and bleeding), presumably as he was on his arrival in Kethaela. The ascension tableau in the Guide uses almost the same optics (or vice versa), but tells us that Belintar has bronze skin (i.e. his tone of skin blends in well with the rest of Kethaela). The Red Emperor has recognized offspring in just about every noteworthy noble lineage in the Empire. Dormal is in all likelihood a son of Belintar. Did the Godking leave other offspring behind? Did any of these offspring (if they exist) start a noteworthy lineage outside of the City of Wonders (or did any such lineage branch outside of the City of Wonders)? I don't think that Belintar would have conformed to any Malkioni caste, although he might have been a man-of-all, one who truly mastered all of the castes. He lacks the Innsmouth-like features one would expect from a Waertagi, but then those don't necessarily manifest in all Waertagi. (Judging from that Noloswal street scene, the Waertagi do interbreed with non-Waertagi. There is no other likely green-skinned ancestral influence for that palanquin-bearer.) Was the body that swam ashore Belintar's original body?

Loskalm is a renunciation of Seshnegi influences, so I agree that Kralori influences there would be suspect. It is also a renunciation of Brithini ways (Hrestol got active here after his time on Brithos), which offers routes to do things in an un-Brithini way. Unfortunately, we don't know how Prince Hrestol's kingdom of Loskalm was built up. All we have about it is a short paragraph in Middle Sea Empire. Tomastus and his Irensavalism apparently started only after Hrestol's renunciation of his kingship and his family. Which means that the unarmed combat doesn't come from Brithos, i.e. wasn't around in the initial Malkioni colonies on the Neliomi Sea. That means they must have developed or acquired it at some point during History - which is the point I didn't think I had to spell out. In Fronela, the local "civilized Hykimi" were the Enjoreli bull folk, possibly civilized by King Drona (who sounds a lot like a twin brother of Dromal, choosing exodus over assimilation as the low caste in the Kingdom of Logic). The Enjoreli had cities, temples to deities like Croesia (and possibly her twin Vorthan), and to their Hykimi ancestors. Would the Bull People be a good source for unarmed combat? And why? (The question why the Kralori have unarmed martial arts needs some explanation, too.) One Hykimi group I absolutely expect to have unarmed combat styles are the Rathori. A bear's upright fighting stance is very close to that of humans. I was suggesting Kralori (or East Islander, or Teshnite) martial arts in Old Seshnela and Tanisor, because of the major hype for all stuff from the east. Several emperors have been noted for importing Kralori art, edifices and even an entire town to Seshnela, and some practiced the pearl diet of Angazabo. If the False Dragon Ring had some unarmed combat styles to present in Seshnela as quaint oriental customs, they would have, and the nobility and the wannabes would have copied that. It is hard to find a place in Genertela which sucked up more Kralori influences than Seshnela, other than (larger) Kralorela itself. Sure, Sheng studied their mysticism, walked there as a prophet, and brought thousands of bureaucrats to Peloria, where they founded families which in all likelihood still exist, possibly married into the local families of comparable status. But the cultural appropriation of the Middle Sea Empire was quite strong. It is a logical interpretation. In quite a few ways, the Malkioni also represent the USA - through their geography, the 13 colonies of Jrustela. The popularity of Bruce Lee or Jacklie Chan in western pop culture and the 1968ers' affinity for eastern mysticism is written into the God Learner empire, IMO. The imitation of the instinctive attack and defense pattern of beasts and their application to human unarmed and armed combat is common in kung fu. You might call that a scientific method, but it could just as well be some meditative approach to enter the flow of oneness in a rudimentarily mystical approach to martial arts (as presented in Revealed Mythologies). What is our source for the Loskalmi practicing martial arts anyway? Edit: found it, RQG rules p.181. Hiding world lore in skill descriptions means I should restart my indexing... The Guide mentions athletic competitions, but unless you count olympic/pro boxing and wrestling as martial arts designed for actual combat rather than athletic competitions, the mention on p.52 does not tell us about Loskalmi using bare-handed tecniques for actual combat, gladiatoral combat, or heroics.

Drawn from old discussions, back on the digest or even the daily. Basically, the winged snake is Lodril's (or Veskarthen's) javelin, the kind you toss from an atlatl. This rhymes with some of the aztec theme that was discussed for the Caladralanders back then. An animal form of the spear. I think the footprint myth which has "a god" picking up Lodril's spear was part of the inspiration for this.

Good thing there is another, abandoned Sun Dome Temple - oh wait, that's where Belvani hangs out nowadays. Count Belvani to you heathens.

I wonder whether the ratio of humans to potentially arable land is much different between Sartar and Heortland. Possibly higher in Sartar, as the non-arable lands provide pasture that allows dairy to supplement grain harvest. Some of the places "you would have to clear" include the Colymar Wilds and Telmori lands, I suppose.

Animals associated with Lodril: the quetzalcoatl winged snake anything that draws his plow anything he paints on a rock, sings out, and then hunts, then sings back the image

Besides Walton's take on the Mabinogion, there is also Lloyd Alexander's Taran series for children. Michael Scott Rohan's "The Anvil of Ice" trilogy provides an interesting mix of the Wayland Saga, ancient Finnish enemy deities and late Pleistocene. Some of the atmosphere there might fit right into Fronela or the late Storm Age.

I have read claims (in writings about Wing Tsun kung fu) that pancratio and Heracles worship may have spread even beyond the successor state activities, and may have been the foundation for buddhist unarmed combat arts (as opposed to martial arts, which include all manner of armed combat styles). But hey - "Plato's republic has this, so the Westerners must be a Greek pastiche" is exactly what doesn't replace "wu shu is Chinese" with anything better. The dialogue addresses Athenian questions in an Athenian context, but does Athens have to be inseparable from the message in Plato? Successor state Kshatryan India should not be the elevator pitch for the Tanisoran kingdom inheriting the name Seshnela. I wasn't arguing from "it must be china" anyway, I was arguing from published Glorantha. Which admittedly does have a too big dose of Cathay=Kralorela.

I agree on principle. This still doesn't make me see either Brithini nor Men-of-all excelling at unarmed combat, though. Just like taking over all cheesy Chinese tropes is not a good idea for any Eastern-inspired setting, taking over all classical Greek-inspired tropes for the Logicians is as much of a fallacy. Depicting the king of Loskalm and his heroes in the nude - strike one. Having them compete in the Olympic games - too much. Wrestling is something else again - some form of strength vs strength outlet for testosterone appears to be built into the upright ape, and may well be universal. What we are discussing here is Hsunchen animal style unarmed (and face it, armed) combat taken over by (somewhat) civilized descendants of such Hsunchen. In Kralorela, we have these known dojos based on the (presumed, or proven) former beast totems of the population. In most of the West, these beast totems have been enemies, or a lower liveform adopted into the western society. (Malkionism can be extremely racist towards beast totem folk.) While we have a somewhat harmonious co-existence of beasts and Malkioni in that Ylream idyll, later First Age and all of Second Age Malkionism was rather rabidly monotheistic. I don't know whether the beast totem warrior societies were a Tanisoran thing that merged with the upcoming Rokarism or whether that persisted since the Dawn Age. I do know that Imperial Age Seshnela thought that importing Eastern odds and ends was extremely fashionable up to and including the pearl diet from Angazabo as a means to show status.

Worship without a hitherto real entity may still establish a tangible power in the Otherworld. Avanapdur in the East is one such example, Jogrampur in Umathela another. The concept of living people embodying a deity may be strange for people raised in the western, Christian tradition, but that's just a minority of our planet's population. Such a divinity needn't be benevolent, btw.

Unless it is the adventurers who establish a new wyter. Other people surely join in, but the initial upfront payment may be from the adventurers. Also, adventurers carrying a wyter along into a dark place (like say Snake Pipe Hollow, adding people to a Guided Teleport for a few points of POW can be cheaper than a Divine Intervention (which may be blocked anyway in an enemy temple). If the adventurer happens to be the enchanter, at least one point of POW is going out, too. DIY has some advantages wrt when and with what conditions the item will be enchanted.

Seshnela imported quite a few customs and magics from Kralorela during the Middle Sea Empire. Presumably including the Tanier Valley tea cultivation, and why not some martial arts dojos, in all likelihood completely bereft of any mystical meditative meaning. MMA sort of fills that bill. Some of the Kralori martial arts probably are Hsunchen fighting styles. No idea where the centipede style came from, though. Some antigod monster?

What material did these Mostali use? Faceless Statue quarry material? Such enlivened stone may be quite easy to put into some other shape, possibly by techniques other than masonry (e.g. smithing the material, or liquefying it to hug a mold). If you look at the Rubble wall, liquefying Faceless Stature rock is what created the smooth edifice of and around Paragua's stone slabs. A similar method could be used to create the main arches, or a complete dome. (If there are Mostali at work, they might save some material in ways similar to the Pantheon.) About the shortage of timber along the Zola Fel: I would expect at least the City of Pavis to enjoy occasional windfalls of lumber when the Sea Season floods may carry bits of Redwood trees fallen down the Leaping Place towards the city. An entire bole might last even a major construction project.

Finding things to spend POW on isn't hard. There are wyters, enchantments, spirit cults, DI or rune points/fetches/inscriptions... The amount of POW you can put into rune points (per cult) is (artificially?) limited by CHA. Sorcerers or shamans aren't limited in the number of POW they invest in their respective POW receptables. I wonder in what ways being worshiped as a hero reduces your freedom to act. Do you gain new passions of Obligation (own cult) or something like that? Is it more like a rune you develop, one outside of the normal core runes?

Will that hero cult grant some tangible benefit like a spirit cult?

The extent of Yelmalio coincides with the activities of the Bright Empire, and its foremost military leader, a certain Iron Vrok. This established the first set of Sun Dome temples. The rise of the EWF was accompanied by the rise of the new Sun Dome, at first in opposition to the dragon mystics, then their willing mercenaries, until the collapse, when they became their willing plunderers. Possibly excepting the Goldedge Sun Dome which must have been as draconized as the rest of central Kerofinela.

The difference between the (stationary) sun disk and the roving Kargzant/Lightfore is quite important in my opinion, these are two different roles in the myths. Yelmalio having both rune lords and priests despite being about as minor a cult as Humakt shows that it is a syncretic cult.

Gods are known by many names. Hero Wars associated a subcult rather than just a feat with each, and the lore exploded. I still think that there is a significant amount of "tribal" Yelmalians around, horse-worshipers without direct militia relationship to any Sun Dome temples. And most Sun Dome temples are likely to have oodles of Barntar (=Orlanth- and Ernalda-worshiping) farmers associated with them.

Goldman and Sachs - those are Mostali names. Hoarding Aluminum....

That is a visible planet in the sky. A planet that underwent a significant change in the first century of History. The Bridling of Kargzant happened after the reign of the Hyaloring emperor Voranoste (known to the Dara Happans as Vuranostum) and the subsequent interregnum/co-reign of his sons who did not put up an emperor with the Ten Tests. Instead, another successor of the Starlight Wanderers turned Chariot Emperors took power and succeeded at the Ten Tests. Already before the Dawn, during Jenarong's reign, there was the Sun Swirl, uniting two stellar deities into one Lightfore. Maybe not so much a construct but definitely a composite entity. If I look at the Elmal myths in Heortling Mythology (and Storm Tribe, although HM basically reprints the myths from Thunder Rebels and Storm Trbe), Elmal, like Antirius, is the sun disk on the high spot (Antirius atop the Footstool in Raibanth, Elmal sitting on top of Mt. Kero Fin, next to Rigsdal) offering a fading light and even more fading warmth to the survivors of the Vingkotling kingdom. There are no myths about Elmal roving around except in meeting evil invaders. Yelmalio on the other side is the wandering demigod aiding the elves in various places (e.g. turning away Gash and Gore's migration from Genert's Garden, which may actually have been an achievement of Yamsur and Hippogriff, or beating back Valind and Borklak in Winterwood), Yamsur was the sun entity at Genert's palace, or possibly north of it. There is also Sun Daughter in Genert's Garden. Precious few myths from Genert's Garden have survived. The Animal Nomads spent most of their time in blissful consumption of the ample food provided by Genert's fertility, with the Storm Bull proving his strength every now and then on behalf of his friends and hosts Tada and Genert. Are there any myths of her actions? Tada did numerous virtuous things, some of which might have been preserved in the myths of Calyz, the working fire of Teshnos. The Earth Walkers appear to walk a line between volcanic Lodril and earthborn Genert. I mention Tada because he, too, is a walking deity/hero doing Defender stuff attributed to Yelmalio.