Joerg

Unless it's been changed since then. The original text had everybody with a spear, shield and hard hat or a sewing kit gets a vote. That's a fair bit of investment for a cottar household.

Sometimes the aspect is known by the name of the greater entity? There is nothing to stop any congregation to direct their powers of worship towards the Greater Gods, but usually such worship doesn't receive reciprocal magic. The only gain from such activity would be as preparation for questing on the Other Side. The Celestial Court assembled by the God Learners based on their own pre-Brithini notion of the Erasanchula and the Theyalan syncretic collection of entities whose followers contributed to the Unity Battle and later Unity Council consists of the council of runes and the Old Gods. That latter list is fairly anonymous and a convenient "we don't know" label. In a way similar to how Kargan Tor predates capital-d Death.

How dyonysian does it get? The Troupe's common illusion does bear some similarity to the dragonewt dream, but doesn't reach its permanence. While their illusions don't survive the proximity of a True Dragon (or superhero), they remain stable in the presence of dragonewts. It looks like both the Cross Line and the Death Line react only to entities crossing them. Illusionary troupes probably are free to pass. The EWF cities failed when they were dropped out of the dragon dream with the 1040 mass utuma. The special food they relied on (described in Middle Sea Empire) rotted away, and survival demanded that the non-draconics went rural. Even though the death toll of the draconic thinkers must have been worse than a decimation, famine followed, and emigration from the overpopulated Pass into both Saird and Kethaela must have ensued. Illusion is a fine gift for making unsavory but nourishing food palatable. The Puppeteers are close enough to Nochet to allow the minor Marlesta to escape her family into the Troupe, which clearly means to me that Puppeteers do operate outside of Kerofinela proper. I would expect them as far down the Oslir as Sylila. If the Red Emperor deigns to see a show, he had better take a detour from Dorkath before returning to Glamour, IMO. It is possible that the Puppeteers avoid the former Shadzoring range.

The status is very much dependent on how essential your services are to the clan. Even the stickpicker Eurmali becomes a thane in weregeld when placed on the ring. Godtalkers of more obscure deities more often than not are cottar class in origin, but their religious position makes them carl in status if not in wealth. There are plutocratic notions in Heortling law - you need to bring certain possessions to the wapentake in order to be allowed to vote, which greatly reduces the political influence of poor cottar households if the richer clan members enforce those rules strictly. For the most time, the fiction that status equals wealth is maintained, and with the favor economy, immediate material wealth doesn't quite measure the credit rating of a person, household, bloodline, or even clan. Upward mobility is given for merit in Orlanthi society, at least to the individual and his hearth while the office lasts. The real question to me is how downward mobility is handled in Orlanthi society. What must happen for a household to fall from (inherited) thane or carl status? Short of exile (which erases all status), I don't see any provision for this in Orlanthi tradition reported so far.

The Zzaburite report that the Erasanchula (original runes) of the elements and powers became False Gods who received worship also marks their devolution IMO. The full runic court atop the Axis Mundi is rarely if anywhere realized in the local variants. The Jernotians made do with seven deities. IMO all the local variants are aspects. Aspects are instances of the class, if I may lend this from object oriented programming. The Core Runes are the class - the concept with the set of parameters. The Prosopedia and Gods and Goddesses of Glorantha before it split the elemental runes into two different appellations, names of the deities (Nakala, Zaramaka, Ga, Aether, Umath) and titles of the Celestial offices (Dame Darkness, Father Ocean/Sir Sea, Mother Earth/Empress Earth, Lord Light/Liege Light, King Storm - the Burta doesn't get the alliteration?) The runic council may be just an abstraction in western philosophy.

I stated that the Elemental Rulers of the Celestial Court never received direct worship. (By mortals, that is - ancestor worship by their offspring is something else.) There are of course people who equate TarnGatHa/Vith with Aether, but his reign predates any form of worship. To be honest, the full panoply of the core runes is only present in the Celestial Court of the (Theyalan and Jrusteli) Monomyth, and that's highly syncretic. The Jernotians make do with seven High Gods, the Vithelans with 9 + 1(Atrilith). The party of the Duke of Disorder yields the harp (Harmony) returned by Leika Ballista - a quite unexpected encounter and outcome. Is the Spike myth universal, or is it a syncretic myth formed from the manifold of Sacred Mountains at the core of the world of the various cultures? Hrelar Amali has the tree of Flamal as their Axis Mundi. Kerofinela has Kero Fin, Dara Happa has the Footstool, Pelanda has Mt. Jernotius, etc. Yes, there are myths about the migrations of the Mountain People. The Downland Migration of Orlanth and the parallel myth of Storm Bull and his Founder sons into Genert's Garden suggests the presence of another mountain at or south of Threestep Isles. Peter Metcalfe managed to convince me that the bad mountain of Pamaltela was a lot closer to the modern coast than Magasta's Pool is. And Mt. Thakarn aka Piparovor may have been the body of Stone, brother of Mostal, who collapsed (at multiple attacks, including Zzabur's Blast and the axe wielded by High King Elf) onto Curustus. Yes, everywhere there was a mountain with powerful entities living on the top. At times benevolent, often neutral, only rarely hostile. And quite often it collapsed in the course of the Gods War, or was invaded, etc. Heortling Mythology speaks of the Old Gods rather than the Powers - that would be the entities mentioned in King of Sartar p.46: These entities may predate the surviving Core Runes. (Yes, this text does imply that core concepts of Glorantha may have been lost in the Greater Darkness.) Are you sure about there being a fixed sequence to these emergences? IMO this was a convergence of events along different cosmological dimensions. Each facilitated the other. Hrelar Amali had a temple to Earth, Flamal's Tree, but that was felled, causing the Greater Darkness. Yes, it doubled as Axis Mundi, but the forest heart also served as the most holy Earth site in Hrelar Amali. There are myths about downland migrations everywhere. The God Learner Maps in the Guide have the Four directional Camps settled by "Mountain people". The Camp of Innocence is mentioned when a later "downland" migration (from Veldara) returns it (briefly) to its former state. It is quite likely that Earthmaker had an island somewhere in the center of Ralios where the northwestern version of the Hsunchen (or in this case, Hykimi) witnessed Creation. The Genertites of the Garden (east of Kerofinela and Kethaela) had Genert's Palace to look at, undoubtedly a monumental edifice. For a great many cultures, I think this was the case. That's a version that I have been pursuing for quite a while. Fire was stolen - e.g. by Eurmal. Friend of Men, and all that. Not necessarily taken away from the original owner, but shared, or replaced with a mostly functional if no longer original copy. I think that the Dara Happans worked hard to exclude the impurity of Darkness from the Perfect One, which would necessarily create a bright deity. To the Dara Happans, the Sunstop state of Brightface's empire was perfection. There was little indication that the birth of the Bright One might have weakened the unbearable brightness in former Wonderhome - no healing of the womb (undoing the Dark Troll curse that had befallen the Mistress Race) was in sight. The Battle of Night and Day added even more injury, creating the Trollkin curse. Sometimes it is Zorak Zoran who kills Flamal, wielding the Death in the form of the axe that Eurmal had taken from Iron Mostali after having given him the Sword. Eurmal may as well be the blade that switches/spreads out to numerous wielders. Eurmal and Humakt both went into the next to deepest Underworld, and brought the power of Death back from the lowest edge of the Cosmos. Neither remained unchanged, both embraced Death in different ways. It isn't clear whether some form of Eurmal ever had a tribe he belonged to from which this experience would have severed him. The Fronelan West seems to have the most positive view of Eurmal anywhere in Glorantha - Firebringer and Friend of Men, who took the power of the (emperor?) god and shared it with the lowly to-become-mortals, and Ralios names Yomat, a son of Eurmal and bearer of that title Friend of Men in a positive way. What do you mean by "southern"? Doraddi "Lodril" is the big Everyman cult where Pamalt is the wily chieftain. Aurelion, the pre-eminent volcano god of Jrustela? Ernaldelan Lodril was married, or retreated as Veskarthan. The Shadow Plateau used to be the base of his highest peak. Its destruction may be part of the Footprint Myth. The "Lo" in Sea Metal should be Lorion rather than Lodril, IMO. "Lo-dwarves" - do you mean the Brass caste of alloyists? I have mentioned my theory about brass preceding bronze a couple of times here. Buried and reborn as Burta? Part of him - sure. The other part, Veskarthan, is the recipient of the First Hospitality. The Gods Wall presents Umath/Rebellus Terminus/Vogmaradan as a phallic deity. While Umath is lusty with his concubines, he is much less a dick than Lodril himself. The westerners did know the secret of metal early on - presumably the Kadeniti, the technicians among the six (plus one) tribes of Danmalastan. They seemed to have shared that with the Kachasti, who permeated the western world all the way to the Poralistor and Delela. Heler is the ancestral deity separated from the All Waters, the tragical loss of the Sea Tribe. Another piece of / aspect of Larnste. (And/or Orlanth). The energy of the Waters. Was he ever? He took Sapana Robber for his wife. Malkion was the son of two blue deities - Aerlit and Warera Triolina. The body of waters. There used to be two major lakes near Hrelar Amali, with Lake Bakeel badly reduced to a marsh, and Lake Felster still at large. I don't think that the sea-port was their main magical target. Their presence in Corflu, Karse and Nochet was little more than a by-play. If this obsession had been a thing in the Heartlands, all the power of the Assiday wouldn't have stopped another association to keep channeling resources and agents to the places conquered by Fazzur for his lunarized Orlanthi reasons. Shadzor, the Underworld aspect of the god of Alkoth? Monster Man appears to be a broad category of underworld rulers, including Lodril, Zorak Zoran, Deshkorgos. And yes, Lodril is his own foe in this myth. IMO Yelm was just a planetary light among many, if he existed that early. The White Queen was mistress of the celestial light in Naveria's time. Elmal the Youth was the unyielding lackey of the Yelmic court before his illuminating encounter with Chalana Arroy. Elmal the Father would have been Elmal the Husband, the steadguard thane. Elmal Rex is remembered in Dara Happa as the destroyer of Elempur - the city of the archer, named after its destroyer? The Dimness might be a better name for the Lesser Darkness aka Storm Age. Xentha was a leader of the troll migration, indicating that there was Night at the onset of the Lesser Darkness. Possibly as early as the starspill in the wake of Umath's invasion of the sky (Copper Tablet 9)? The duality of Kajabor and Wakboth is fair, IMO. Kajabor is the external force of entropy, while Wakboth is the externalized inner rot. Kajabor is the antithesis of Creation, no longer separate from the world after the implosion of the Axis Mundi, just the alienness of the Void. Wakboth is the distillation of spite, humiliation etc. "blessed" with the power of annihilation (which his three parents, although highly destructive, lack.) What Vadel is to Wakboth, Zzabur is to Kajabor. Note the very similar name for the second pair.

Without Sartar's road, the valley of Boldhome would have made a good mountainous refuge for a clan needing to disappear from the world - similar to the Karandoli hide-out further west in the same massif. Getting the herds in would have been a great effort, but not impossible. Sartar's city relies on the clans of Killard Vale below the main entrance of the city to feed the capital. His road enables the farmers to bring their produce into the high valley. Personally, I regard the valley of Boldhome as a less remote variant of the Höllentalklamm above Garmisch-Partenkirchen. If you are an untrained lowlander urbanite, the ascend is quite demanding. Middle Sea Empire makes it clear that the notion of the navigable river extended south of Kordros Island (named Liorn Island in the text), with banjarn located near the place where the Oslir splits around Kordros Island. Either the notion of "navigable" applied to smaller river craft than plying the Oslir further north, or the river changed significantly, possibly as a result of the Dragonkill. We do know that the post-Dragonkill Alakoringite settlement at (or near) the current river port was razed by Phargentes and rebuilt using imperial layout and craftsmen, brought along from Sylila and Saird. The importance of Furthest as trans-shipment port for Oslir barges meant that the place would have been re-settled as soon as Arim's Hidden Kingdom stopped hiding (by the time of the Battle of Quintus Vale in 1374 where Lunar (Sylilan?) and Tarshite forces overcame the Opili horse nomads) and started to take a leadership role in the neighboring territories of Holay and Aggar during Sheng's activities in Peloria. Given the shifting of rivers, I am not entirely sure whether the new location of the city would have been exactly the same as its EWF predecessor. Looking at the well-constructed Roman period river port unearthed near Notre Dame de Paris, even well-constructed quayes in a city with continuous habitation would shift location. On the other hand, there might be an artificial weir upriver of Furthest, maintaining a higher water level there, and the possibility of water power inside the city. The city of Augsburg on the Lech has numerous such canals, with cottage industries using simple waterwheels that used to provide rotation for e.g. carvers. Those canals postdate the Roman foundation of Augusta Vindelicorum by a few centuries at least, however, and no such feature was mentioned for either pre- nor post-Phargentes' Furthest. Further upriver, there appears to be a series of rapids below the confluence of the two arns of the upper Oslir around Kordros Island, probably with a stretch of wide, rather calm waters before the rapids, and a bar of bedrock that doesn't get whittled away by detritus carried down. For comparison, neither the Rhine falls at Schaffhausen nor the Niagara Falls show much retrograding because the lakes upriver eliminate most of the abrasive detritus. Without such a stable barrier, Kordros would have ceased to be an island centuries ago, even if the river branches parting upriver of the island are caused by a great magical cause. I would expect both branches of the Oslir around Kordros Island to be fairly placid most of the year, except for the great thaw in the Skyreach mountains or extraordinarily yieldful rainfalls. Showing up in the palace also precludes many of the ordinary folk from enjoying the show, weakening the magic that holds the Puppeteers together, and makes people feed them despite not being kin.

Masters of illusion... They probably could pass as anything they wanted if they put up their game face. I am a bit dubious whether they stayed in the forbidden area during this time. While the Beastfolk and the Kitori probably would have enjoyed their services, and while the trolls of Cliffhome might be willing to host them, too, I see little chance that the Tusk Riders will treat them well after their shows, and no great chance that the dragonewts would be willing to part with food or produce in exchange for their services. I find it more likely that they roamed the bordering lands north and south of the forbidden zone, possibly bypassing them using the exchange magic with their illusionariy armies. After all is said and done, the Puppeteers aren't primary producers (though possibly have a side line of hunting and gathering to make ends meet), and need to perform for people able to feed them. Illusionary food will satisfy hunger, but not energy needs.

The elements of the Celestial Court never received direct worship. As to the color blue - that's the hottest part of the flame, the well aerated part. The yellow/golden glow really is the struggle with the fuel turning into soot. This is of course the real world chemistry and physics of a candle or oil lamp flame, but I don't see any pressing need for surface world Glorantha to deviate from this. Let's meditate on the nature of the candle flame... Note that the Nargan Sea was also called Blue Fire Sea. Possibly even before the Skyspill. The golden Sky Dome could be nothing but the atmospheric effect of dust scattering light. The process of burning up the impure remnants of fuel, never succeeding without air, the doomed struggle for purity. Fire always was something to be stolen. The descent of Lodril may be a cognate of the theft of fire. And of course, Lodril's descent into the Earth was nothing but the insemination of Gata, leading to the birth of Umath. Lodril is the fiery semen poured into the Earth Mother. I see shades of Lodrilela in the brothers of Mahome, husbands of Ernalda's handmaidens, as per the boxed text in Thunder Rebels p.190. Also note that in Entekosiad, the log walkers who finally encounter the women's tribe are the dysfunctional sons of the original earthfire god, who has a nice little core family with his wife and the one functional son of theirs. This fire tribe are the rebels and outcasts, until Brightface usurps the reign of the White Queens. The Yelmic world order can be seen as a hypocritical ruse, or it can be seen as the honest attempt to shed themselves of their impure former rebellious selves. The Yelmic Golden Age world order appears to coincide with the construction plans of the Mostali, who welcomed Lodril's insertion into the Earth without realizing that this was the next act of growth. Whoever was in charge with designing the Made World erroneously considered the rise of Aether through the Spike the last great act of Creation, of stuff from the outside brought into the world of Being, not considering Growth. This made the Mostali plan a willing accessory to back up the legitimiacy of the lie that brought Brightface onto the Celestial Emperor's throne. If you are willing to step into Tolkien's construct of angelic servants and the children of the Creator, then the Yelmic Golden Age is when the angels took upon themselves the role rightfully reserved to the progeny of the Creator. It is like all the Valar but the eldest rebelled. Like a civilized reign of titans was overthrown by the no-good offspring of one of them who did not manage to save the world from his faults by swallowing them, to put the Greek mythos on its head. If you look at the log tribe, that's because the revolt was against the way Lodril had established. Lodril had established the perfect way, but the imperfections that were his lesser sons couldn't cope with that, and in the end overthrew the world order of Lodrilela. How about this: Lodril is the Third (made) Son, the one who gets the thing done where the two elder brothers fail spectacularly. Umath is the real heir, spurned by the stepbrothers. In my materialist myth of the development of the world as the Mostali-created whole, the cube of Glorantha used to stick out halfway out of the surrounding river of Sramake, pierced by the Spike and then by the semen of Aether. When Umath was born, he pushed the earth cube down until its edges were about level with Sramak's River. It was from this push that Lorion gathered the energy to flow into the heavens, and Hudaro and Togaro onto their respective corners of the surface world, sending out their advance forces Sshorg and Neliom. All of that is true to some extent, as causality as in my materialist approach above doesn't cover all of the other implications. One of the least "causality-obeying" yet most intriguing myths in Glorantha is the one of the three curious spirits, identified as Zorak Zoran, Argan Argar (a son or grandson of the sky) and Xiola Umbar chancing upon unborn Aether (the sky) deep in the womb of Darkness. It helps to remember that deities have multiple manifestations, which may even predate their birth if going their through the cycles of Godtime. Stuff like this allows a presence of Kodig "long before the birth of Vingkot", for instance. I never quite saw the immediate death of the sun when Orlanth slew the Emperor. I am weirdly comfortable with the idea that what Orlanth slew was the pillar of the sun, the emperor who upheld the static cosmos, allowing great change and also significant struggle into the world. Yes, the Second True Death (after Grandpa Mortal) did send an irresistible undead fire entity into Wonderhome. But it didn't extinguish the sun, it only weakened its absolute stranglehold on the world. I have the suspicion that there used to be a day-night cycle before the rebellion of Brightface and his ascension onto the Cosmic Mountain. Much of Yelm's Golden Age may have been nothing but an extended Sunstop, aided and abetted by the servants of the Maker. (I think that it is possible that this stage was only another stop in the Making of the world, with a quality control team let loose to make sure everything was in place. They had not finished their job when Creation went on in an unexpected place, and then struggled to stop that progress and turn it back to the point where they would finish their quality control.) IMO if Tolat ever was blue, that blue must have been so dark that it was indistinguishable from black. If anything, Shargash may have replaced green Alkor as the southern planetary son. Tolat and Annilla/Veldara were twins, one red, one blue (when not black due to their Underworld origin). The Lightbringer religions externalized Chaos. Non-Lightbringers have different approaches. The Solar religions sort of internalize the concept of the Distant Void with their mystic upper Light, cal it Dayzatar or Zitro Argon. The upper hemisphere of the cosmic bubble is not a clear separation from the disruptive omnipotence of the Void like the lower hemisphere of Darkness, but a sort of both destructive and inclusive interaction with it, the upper and outer glow of Aether, the cosmic (hemspherical) Firewall into the omnipotential (yes, I know this is not a real word) nothing. Everything can form or happen in the vacuum energy of the Void, and can (and will) be destroyed again by its antipart, unless separated from that. The Malkioni cosmology suffers from the collision of their impeccable devolutionary logic with their tribal history which tells a completely different set of stories, often incompatible. The Brithini and the Vadeli are the result of this jarring inconsistency, and that may be their cause of Chaos. It may be the irreconcilable inner conflict that necessitates Chaos. The Primal Plasma of the Animists appears to permeate the Spirit World. There are unstable regions in the Spirit World where even the weak subjective order of the entity experiencing it gets dissolved, and from which the Chaos spirits separate and intrude the more stable parts. (I guess that for a long time I failed to grasp the meaning of the exposure to the Bad Man, counterpart of the Horned God, for a long time. It is experiencing the helplessness in the face of invincible evil, and making that experience a part of themselves. The Star Heart of the Second Son experience, an acknowledged impotence made into a pillar of strength and resolve. The shamanic equivalent to the Kobayashi Maru experience of Star Trek star fleet aspirants.) The Spirit World doesn't separate the impossible from the proven. There are things about the Gloranthan East that I don't get. I am fine with Vith as the progenitor and yet primary target of the Antigods - the Titan who failed to resorb his destructive offspring isn't that far from this concept, and I cannot really say whether Gebkeran's offspring aren't really the ones who get it right by challenging the perceived authority again and again, or whether the mystics who either shed or accept all have it right. Oorduren is the first mystic, the mystic of the High Gods, the teacher of Vith, and of the primal mystics of the East. Venforn is often overlooked in the Eastern myths which focus on Mashunasan. Oorduren teaches both inclusion of everything (Venforn) or separation from everything (Mashunasan, possibly also Nenduren and Larn Hasamador). Whether it is integration of Being and Not-Being or refutation of both, Chaos is treated almost the same way that non-Chaos is treated.

Veskarthan aka Lodril shows up as one of the Evil Uncles at the Initiation of Orlanth, so the relationship is somehow acknowledged by the post-Gbaji-Wars Orlanthi. Before the Second Council got into contact with the Jenarong-dynasty Dara Happa, I wonder whether the Heortlings had heard much about Yelm at all. They knew the Evil Emperor, somehow tied to the sun, supposedly once sitting atop the Spike in the Celestial Palace. Not very much of that points north to Dara Happa. The Esrolian sun emperor Harono fits that bill at least as much and possibly better. In some senses, slaying the evil uncle was a kinslaying, but in the legal sense used by the Orlanthi, it was not - it was an act of violence against another tribe (clan, whatever you want to say), and thus well covered in the rules of the society. After the dismemberment of Umath at the hands of Shargash, this act may be named the collection of a blood debt between the tribes, too. The kinstrife that led to Chaos entering the world uncontrollably was Orlanth being unable to give justice to Thed.

Sure, Ehilm's father would be pure (or later alloyed, if following the Lodril mythic pattern) fire. With Zrethus a different deity not in the paternal line of Ehilm (as far as I can make that out), Ehilm is a lot more Flame and Fire than Celestial Yelm. Weirdly enough, the Lightbringers' Quest involves both the Ash Emperor and Ehilm's Flames (as Orlanth's test of atonement), making the superposition of Ehilm with Yelm a bit less convincing. Ehilm is the sun, not a son of the sun, but the son of primal fire/flame. I suppose that Lodik started out as the pure flame of above, but then succumbed to earthy desire ending up as the fiery mountain father we all know. Still, there appears to be a different father/grandfather for Humat/Erulat, probably Zrethus, the blue sky (passing on the color blue to the storm god).

Or possibly still by a name like Tharkantus or even Daysenerus. While Ralios had its share in fights of the Bright Empire and the EWF, it was quite far from the decisive battles, and from the bad backlashes against the cult. IMO Ehilm is a very fiery but a lot less imperial and if possible more fiery version of Yelm, without any Dara Happan or Pentan baggage but loads of Ralian baggage. I have no idea how friendly or tense the relation between Ehilm and the local aldryami is, either (and that may vary from elf forest to elf forest, too).

I just don't think that it feels right to reassign Conquest Peak (aka Cliffhome/Blackorm Mountain) to Doktados/Empty Mountain when both these peaks are clearly well-known magical and physical landmarks. Empty Mountain is the site of the Vanak Spear quest, famously performed by a Berennethtelli living in the shadow of Autumn Mountain, in the neighborhood of Lokamayadon's Talastar. Top of the World or Umath's Throne are the alternative Big Holy Mountains, each with their local color, and probably without much notion about Aedin and his wall. The Umathelans could have a hedge instead of a wall, for all their interaction with the aldryami. The Ralian/Fronelan fortress builder may be some other creature, and it may have some ramps for chariots, given the Chariot of Lightning movement of Surantyr. The perception of Storm Village is heavily dependent on the expectations of the viewer. A Storm Pentan may visit the corral of West King Wind and communicate freely with a Fonritian/Vralan worshipper of Baraku. Boasts of raids etc. will translate into culturally referable feats of the visitors. Visitors trained in mystic or RuneQuest sight might be able to read their exchange in runic archetypes. The use of Empty Mountain, Conquest Peak etc. is the native geography of holy mountains translated to features of Storm Village. A Umathelan will barely know two sacred peaks, both of which will lie way outside of their range of worship.

Heroquest exposure is a good way to gain or alter one's runic association. There is nothing inherently wrong about having a score in all elemental runes - the world is made of everything. Elemental runes can rise above 100%, too, so the primary and secondary element can still be distinguished even if the other runes have average ratings.

I think that your spiral is a lot smaller than the peaks in Aedin's Wall suggest. Doktados or Empty Mountain is a peak in the Mislari, a hollow caldera. Blackorm Mt. aka Cliffhome is Conquest Mountain on the inner circle of the spiral. (Thunder Rebels p.137) The correspondence of that map with Gloranthan geography is somewhat weak, but the peaks are clearly identified.

That would mean that Goldedge (city and Sun Dome Temple) would only have been founded around 1569?

For some inexplicable reason, people are more at home with almost lovecraftian pronunciations like pterodactyl, pteranodon or quetzalcoatl than with a sordid sord. While beaked, this shape doesn't come to mind at first when thinking of webbed foot anthropomorphic birds. I wonder whether the parrot keets are that closely related to all those other keets. Sords may be similarly close or distant.

Does the Yelmalio cult reject Orlanth, or does it simply not let him go unchallenged? Ok, unlike with Heler, Orlanth and Yelmalio have actually come to blows with one another at the Hill of Gold. But Orlanth has fought and overcome several of his allies, like his taming of Storm Bull with nothing but a stick and a lariat, or the epic duel with Humakt. The Aramites at the Dawn didn't worship Orlanth any more, either, but that didn't mean that they rejected him entirely. The Elmali weren't enemies of Sartar. They were a subculture that had become alienated of the tribal culture in the kingdom, and things had come close to kinstrife. I have no idea why Tarkalor was so set on removing the Kitori from the southern fringes of his father's kingdom. I think he was too young to have been a friend of Darlanth, the Hendriki governor-king of Heortland who lost his office (and possibly, but not definitely) his life in 1544. The beef between Yelmalians and Orlanthi is less than that between Lunarized Orlanhi and traditionalist ones. Acceptance of the Seven Mothers questions the cosmic role of the Storm God, even while maintaining his cultural role. The Sun Dome Temples have alternatingly allied with the traditionalist and the progressive Orlanthi. Right now the Lunars may be seen as the progressives, at least until Argrath transforms his traditionalist allies into the new progressives. The royal house of Tarsh is both Lunar and Orlanthi, and heavily involved in the dynastic tangle of the houses of Sartar's children.

Since I have made the death of Sarotar part of the "prequel" to my scenario Norinevra's homecoming, here are my thoughts about that period. 1539: Dragonewts' Dream I'd start with the grandparent's clan reaction to the dragonewt activity, then offer a chance to participate in the Opening of the Big Rubble. The first explorers of the Rubble will be able to bring back a heirloom or two. They might end up in the retinue of Sarotar. 1543: Sarotar's wooing of Arkilia, culminating with his death in 1546 In addition to gaining Esrolian as a language, getting an allegiance or a feud with one of the Esrolian houses is on the table. 1546-1555 or so: the assassination war with Nochet The brothers and cousins of Sarotar wage their campaign of revenge on the Queen, then Reverend Grandmother, of Nochet and her clan. 1548 (IMO): Tarkalor begins his war against the Kitori, Monrogh begins unifying the Old Sartar Elmali into what becomes Sun Dome County. IMO Tarkalor and his companions join the Night Jumper society of the Curtali clan. The Nightjumping magic may become instrumental in the Esrolian assassinations. 1550: Dwarf revenge, Saronil dies rescuing Minara. Possibly ties to Onelisin and her daughters. 1550: Dorasar sets off to start New Pavis. The construction of New Pavis with its Sartarite wall starts, but would last a few years unless Dorasar uses Flintnail dwarf magic. If so, the wall should be finished before Saronil dies. More chances for Big Rubble plunder/perishing. 1555: Jarolar's arrival gives Palashee a crushing victory over King Philigos, who died in the battle. Fame etc. to be had. Regardless of that, Palashee dies in a subsequent skirmish and duel with Phargentes. The Founding of Sun Dome County probably takes place well before 1569, but The Kitori War ends with the liberation of Whitewall to the Volsaxi, which may have come significantly after the liberation of Vanntar and relocation of the Elmali there. 1548 is a good date for that if you go for 1550 rather than 1575 for the founding of New Pavis. The enslaving of the Ergeshi and Monrogh becoming Count may both be tied to the capture of Whitewall from the Kitori. This may play out in Jarosar's reign. 1569 marks the year of Tarkalor ratifying the position and officially giving Monrogh independence from Sartar (which never had sovereignty over Vanntar anyway). Tarkalor's wooing of the FHQ is another longer build-up, with several possible events for people in Tarkalor's retinue, and also for people in Phargentes' retinue. On the Tarshite side, the wars of Phargentes also include slaying kings of Aggar and Elkoi, and even prior to the death of Philigos, there will have been activities of Phargentes as the first Provincial Overseer in Holay, and possibly some tie-ins to the Tarshite holdings in Sylila. Chances to gain connections to either the Tarsh royal house or to the Orindori family which is going to produce Fazzur. 1555 marks the loss of Philigos against Palashee and Jarolar, the victory of Phargentes over Palashee, and the re-dedication of the Reaching Moon Temple. The conquest of Sikithi Vale from the Grazers follows, IMO, not sure about the year. Furthest razed and rebuilt as Lunar city. After Phargentes' death as a result of his overextending himself wooing the FHQ, we get the reign of Moirades with the establishment of the Provincial university, influx of Lunars to Furthest. Reign of Terasarin: 1582: Liberation of the Far Place in the aftermath of Grizzly Peak. Founding of Alone. Last royal road-building/wall building campaigns. 1590: Terasarin fends off a major Lunar invasion. 1600: Moirades projects "a stray moonbeam" to blind/slay Terasarin. Opportunities for Tarshite background, too. Difficult ascension of Salinarg, formation of Household of Death by his children. (No parents or grandparents can join, but could be retainers.)

IMO later, although there will have been a road as early as there was regular trade to that city. There was no Swenstown during the EWF, and little to encourage that southern branch of the modern Pavis Road. After the Dragonkill, the EWF-era road will have fallen into complete disrepair, and the troll seal didn't encourage trade to that place, even though Sartar did visit the Thieves Town outside of the Rubble (now Badside), establishing at least some contact. The modern Pavis Road from Old Sartar was established under Dorasar and his Sartarite counterparts (Jarosar, Tarkalor), though not in the quality of a Royal Highway. The Alda-chur stretch may have been revived under Terasarin, also in connection with the establishment of Alone.

Of these roads, the Royal Sartar Road is the Gold Standard - a paved road atop a bed of gravel, except for the mountain pass between Boldhome and Jonstown wide enough for two wagons to pass one another, elevated above the surrounding land so that the water can run off. Better conditions than many a RW tarmac road... IMO the Hendriki road will be a gravel road - still dry, no mudholes, but lacking the dwarven masonry for the paving. Without the bureaucracy the Malkonwal part of Heortland enjoyed, mandatory road works are a lot less likely to procure paving. The Tarsh road west of Alda-chur is gravel at best, a broad swath of semi-clear land at worst, until it enters the Glowline. Royal Tarshite military roads are fairly high standard. The Pavis road is a secondary road, but probably has bridges to cross the smaller brooks until entering Prax, where it is more of a track. Most not so major rivers are bridged by the Royal Sartar Road, but the Creek at Dangerford still is forded, and I doubt that the pavement continues into the water - some gravel bedding may be applied every now and then, though. The Malkonwal Royal Highway continuing south to Durengard and Mt. Passant might be almost up to the Sartar standard. Beyond Mt. Passant, the road to Refuge probably is little better than the Hendriki road - still very good, but not quite that excellent. In Esrolia, the road between Nochet and Ezel probably is as good as the Sartar Royal Highway. The various roads out of Nochet are likely to be at least gravel, and the highway network from New Crystal City and Arkat's Hold to Porthomeka probably will have paving where the houses tasked with maintenance prosper, and gravel where prosperity has sagged. In the mesopotamia of south Esrolia, the roads are likely to be dam roads between irrigation channels, with some sheep grazing on the flanks - which may be the main difference to the irrigation dam roads in riverine Dara Happa. Next to the rivers there will be open ground for teams pullling river vessels upriver.

The piano is a percussive instrument by this definition, too, as is the dulcimer. Whoever can have harps can also have dulcimers, so I have little doubt these exist in Glorantha. Pianos only if dwarves play music, and IIRC the thread about what music styles which culture would hear said that dwarves would listen to industrial or maybe techno. Iron mostali will enjoy the sound of death metal even without music. Probably punctuated by blackpowder discharges. I have little doubt that somewhere there are trollkin trained to squeal at a certain pitch when tapped with a club, which would mean a percussion instrument, too. Modern use in the symphony orchestra or in the marching band needn't reflect their use in ancient times or earlier. Bells usually have a beater inside, and many chimes, especially those worn by dancers, do so, too, or are activated by dinging them one into another. You can also let a bell sing much like you can do with water glasses. Then there are cymbals (or their modern mechanised version used by drummers to add to their snare and normal drums. (My one trip as a musician in Glorantha was in a MGF system game hosted by MOB where I played a Brithini triangulist with an (unenchanted) iron triangle and the special ability of stage diving. IIRC this was set in Pavis.) I have recently seen a video (I think on neanderthals) which suggested that certain stalagtites in a cave with bone and tool finds might have served as tonal percussive instrument, a lithophone (analogous to the xylophone which uses wooden vibrating bodies) - apparently there was some ancient wear and tear on these. Rattle and bull-roarer are both associated with Storm. The concept of a percussion instrument still goes to Darkness, with the drum and probably other stuff you hit with rocks or clubs that go plonk. Drums can be quite tonal, too - I once heard someone play something like a tune on a bodhran, and timpani/kettledrums can even manage a glissando. Still, on the whole I think they produce dark booms rather than bright chimes.

We have at least one cult for that setting already: Indlas Somer.

Gouger was sent north by the vengeful earth (Kethaa?), and it is possible that Aram, the hero who slew it, followed it from the south. The Aramites are first established in Dragon Pass in the Silver Age, with Aram having won the Necklace of Kero Fin. The Harandings of the Dawn Age are a separate tribe from the Aramites, but there is a good possibility that they share the same roots. I tend to assume a kinship between the Harandings and the Entruli, too.

Dragon Pass: Land of Doom introduces a strangely named tribe called the Orvantes, which has the same name form as the three Summer Tribes of the Vingkotlings (Orgovaltes, Koroltes, Vestantes). I am inclined tth o see Orvantes as a mis-spelling or mis-pronunciation of Orgovaltes. I am not sure whether a Theyalan word stem and a Pelorian word stem like "or" necessarily have to share a meaning. Orlanth is the mountain storm, and I am sort of inclined to associate the "or" with mountain. But that's falling into the same trap as I warned of in the previous paragraph - the term "orogenesis" for "formation of mountains" certainly influences this identification. Doing Pelorian linguistics, I tend to think that Oria is really O-ria, with similar forms in e.g. Denegeria, Orogeria, Naveria - perhaps meaning "-land". If "or" stands for mountain (which is an aspect both of dragons and of giants), we also find it in the name of Orlanths sister Inora. (Gonn Orta probably is a "pun name" similar to good-on-ya, the current Kralori emperor, possibly "gone out of...", which is why I hesitate to make linguistic comparisons like G*n*rt or pointing out the "or" in Orta.) Yes, Orlanth established his kingship of the world by wedding the Earth Queen. I thought that percussive music was the realm of Darkness, with Hombobobom the Drummer (and shamaness) the first such musician. Such a darkness connection also exists for Shargash (whose drummers are part of his ceremonial warfare facing the advance of Oslira). If wind instruments are Storm/Air, and string instruments (derived from the bow?) Fire/Light, we have too elements without clear musical instruments. Earth instruments appear to include bells and chimes,both clay and metal, which I wouldn't quite include under percussion. and in case of chimes as dancing implements as much as as instruments. The music of water may be dripping, the rippling and burbling of animated water, the whooshing of waves.