Joerg

There shouldn't be any pdfs of those early issues. A couple of those units were included in the Dragon Pass boardgame using the combat resolution rules of Robert Corbett, which look a lot easier than the original combat resolution tables. I'll have to dig through my DP research notes (on paper) to give you an overview over the units covered. What combat resolution rules did you use?

While I subscribe to Ian's statement here, I will note that the oldest tribal map of Sartar I have seen used the White Bear and Red Moon hex map, assigned one clan per hex and drew outlines around continuous areas.

Fire in a library? What are you thinking?

Sure. But you might have to learn it outside of your library if the highest beards don't agree to teaching this even outside of the curriculum.

Or just a willingness to leave real world brain chemistry and the psychology created by that out of this thread.

Weather conditions influence quite a few magics available to Orlanth, Yelm(alio), Heler and others. It also is a significant modifier for travel, combat, climbing and other such activities. Dry spells (like the one recently suffered in northern Germany) often prompt heroes to undergo the Aroka Quest to banish Daga and bring back the rain.

A person strong in fertility has a healthy glow, which translates to secondary and tertiary features we associate with sexual attraction, like e.g. red lips. A person strong in death often will have a slightly cyanotic appearance, less full lips, and will wear scars with pride that a person strong in fertility may have healed away. Looking at the illustration, I can't help but wonder how the correlation between skin exposure and character advancement will continue...

The Orlanthi manage to balance this advantage with their notorious disunity. Even when they start some of the greatest projects in the history of Glorantha, like the God Project in Dorastor or the EWF, there are always die-hard dissidents willing to fight to the death and beyond to stop these from happening. Organisation beats individual prowess on the battlefield, and in the clash of cultures. Being able to recruit allies from the culture you're fighting (disunity) is a big plus, too, unless you ally to individuals like RW Arminius or Argrath.

Here are a few images to illustrate my text above. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischzaun#/media/File:Heringszaun_Kappeln2008.jpg The fish fence of Kappeln, in the Schlei "estuary" (the Schlei is a brackish fjord rather than a river, although a few small rivers or creeks drain into it.) Similar narrows can be found in a number of the estuaries of Heortland, making this a speciality of the local Pelaskite Orlanthi not found elsewhere around the Choralinthor Bay. The people inhabiting the tidal flats e.g. around the Vulari peninsula and the Rightarm and Leftarm archipelago might use fish gardens like this: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischzaun#/media/File:Fischgarten_Modell.jpg In case you think such constructs are too modern - there have been finds of Ertebølle (aka Køkkenmøddinger) mesolithic constructions similar to this in Denmark and Schleswig-Holstein, and those guys are a big influence on my idea of the Pelaskites, along with the separate fishing communities next to the cities that sprung up in the region, some of which still persist (like the Schleswig Holm, or the "city" of Arnis).

My assumption for Heortland landscapes (except for the Storm Mountain range) is generally based on Britain, with the Choralinthor coast something like the Channel coast (say Brighton or Penzance) below the Cliffs of Dover, the islands something like the Channel islands, and the uplands with bits of the Salisbury plain, east Anglia, and further up Yorkshire. Aberdeen or Edinburgh don't really figure much, although some of the dormant volcanism of the Edinburgh area may be quite appropriate the closer you come to the Leftarm Isles (geology-wise, not climate- or ecology-wise). All of which follows are facts about my Glorantha that have accumulated over the last 24 years or so working on and off in that region. The coast is quite verdant, even though the fluvial plain silt of the sea-level areas are covered by debris fallen off the cliffs and form a region of detritus with properties of karst. The grazing on the rubble isn’t really suited for cattle IMG, but is fine for sheep. Choralinthor bay is only brackish (thanks to the Skyfall) and extremely calm, but I don’t see much in the way of dominant reed areas between the Marzeel estuary and the Martof estuary. Tidal action is a slow rise of water level over an average of a little over three days (but can be as little as one day and as much as six days), or twice a week, with slow, long tides rising a little higher up that than quick and short ones, and a rather dramatic rush of water out through Troll Strait when the Blue Moon plummets down Magasta’s Pool, with about 1.5 meters (5’) between high and low tide. This means that the tidal area is a lot more predictable than tidal areas on our planet. Lack of wave action means that salt-tolerant plants will have colonized the mud. This, too, makes excellent grazing for sheep. Occasional pockets of quicksand make this less suitable for cattle, again, although weeds harvested here are welcome winter fodder and salt-lick replacement for nearby cattle. Coastal strips without any indication of tidal flats in the map have rather narrow bands of littoral area, but enough to attract water birds like oystercatchers. Above these bands, low dunes have formed, stabilized by beachgrass, wild roses, and heather, giving way to meadows, occasional marshy areas in depressions, and more heather where dunes have migrated inland. Trees tend to be rather short, and bent by the wind. Stunted pine, birch, hawthorne, willow, black alder dominate the strip closest to the coast, without any outright forested area, though some nigh impenetrable brush (impenetrability aided by blackberry vines, gorse, and rose thickets). Cattle pasture and arable land vie or the same strips of the best soil, limiting either (since you need cattle for plowing). Seafood and sheep each contribute as much to the diet of the inhabitants down there as do farming and cattle-herding combined. A few areas are well suited for cabbage farming, much of which is traded for grain from the plateau. The river estuary shore doesn’t have the dunes, although the debris fallen down from the cliffs still applies for the innermost band of land. The Leskos promontory and the Solthi estuary have the best farmland, whereas the Syphon estuary with its reversed flow doesn’t really profit from the fertile upland soil (which makes the middle Syphon valley rather rich in soil). Fluvial deposits add fatter tones to a moderate but significant layer of loess carried here from the glaciation of Peloria. The Minthos estuary has only a rather narrow strip of arable land inside the debris belt, mainly fluvial sediment and less loess. South of the Minthos area the Vulari peninsula is flanked by large areas of tidal plain. The dry lands are farmed, the wetlands serve as sheep pasture and gathering area for both sea-birds and the Pelaskites inhabiting the island sitting on the entrance to the Troll Straits. The eastern wetlands which receive tidal waters from the Rozgali rather than the brackish Choralinthor waters (the tidal inflow happens in the depths of Troll Strait, providing a mostly separate, more salty layer of water in the depths of Choralinthor covered by the brackish water fed by all the rivers). The cliffs themselves are colonized by cave-dwelling sea-birds like tern, puffins on narrower ledges and even some gannets, boobies (the birds, stop being adolescent) or (flying) auks on wider ones, but not enough to warrant collection of guano except in small quantities (for dyeing or tanning). The banks of the estuaries and the bays next to them are frequented by schools of herring which lay their eggs here in Sea Season. The coastal folk have built arrays of permanent fish-traps in passages where schools are likely to pass through, and fisherfolk from elsewhere join the local fisherfolk when these migrations occur. Out on the bay, mackerels, haddock and cod can be netted following these herring migrations. These riches come in too early in the year to promote huge colonies of sea-birds – even if they start laying their eggs in late Storm Season, by the time their young need the most food, the plenty has gone again. Scenes like the feeding frenzy on the migration of sardines of South Africa are more likely south of Genert’s Wastes. The chalky cliffs offer access to high quality flint, some of which is even traded (transported as ballast to Corflu, from where it is carried into Prax) where not domestically used, but Shadow Plateau obsidian is plentiful and dominates the market for mineral blades west of the plains of Prax. Bog iron exists, but not as a mineral/metal resource, rather as a nuisance for farming whetre it forms near impenetrable layers of rock in sandy soil. Some of this is quarried and used for architecture. In some places, this is washed out as ochre, which does get traded as pigment. Around Vizel, Esvulari have built up an industry from producing caustic lime from the debris falling off the cliffs, using charcoal shipped down the Martof and Minthos rivers from the Storm Mountain foothills. In Storm Season, Pelaskite beachcombers will be on the lookout for nuggets of seametal and pieces of amber that may have been washed ashore by storms on the southern shores, though not inside the Troll Strait.

Javelins suitable to be cast with an atlatl are basically over-long arrows, and are at least as hard to get right as arrows with regard to stiffness/flexibility. Thrown spears already vibrate strongly (just watch the spear toss in an athletics meet). Spear-like objects accelerated from their back are even worse in this regard. Operating a bow and fletching your own arrow requires specialized woodcarving skills like turnery, but also familiarity with the behavior of the missile in flight.Application of flight feathers will stabilized flight, as will selection of the tip weight. Arrow and javelin tips can be mass-produced, and a skilled flint knapper or a redsmith with a mold can save you time for producing quality. You will require "glue"to affix tip and fletching, like birch pitch and/or sinews. You'll be interested in learning to dovetail the point-side piece of shaft to the flight shaft. Arrows hitting hard surfaces often split in the wood. By dovetailing the part holding the tip onto the flight shaft, you have a good chance that the split won't affect the flight shaft, so you just replace the piece at the tip. You also mentioned coppiced wood for shafts. Very true. While you can shoot arrows produced from planks by turnery, those shafts split way more easily along the grain, and an arrow hitting a target will easily exert forces which can cause such a split. The Vingkotlings had special bushes to grow arrows - check the Berthestead entry on p.6 of History of the Heortling Peoples. This sounds like something acquired from the Aldryami, but considering that even the Vingkotlings have such a resource for arrows when they are one of the cultures not usually thought of as archers, you can expect cultures well known for archery to use such methods too, like Dara Happans, Impala riders, and of course elves.

Why? The effect may be a little stronger than predicted by general relativity, but photons are attracted by masses, and beyond the Chaosium deep down under Glorantha there is the infinite mass of the Void. Maybe the correct answer is similar to the Copenhagen school about collapsing wave fronts when the uncertainty arc intersects with the distant surface. I remember the discussions whether sight is the collection of light dispersed by objects, or a property of rays emerging from the observer's eye, augmented by light, that touch the objects in view. If you look at the Gods Wall, the rays of sight appear to emerge from the emperor's eyes and are dispersed over the four rows of attendants. The main criticism about this model is of course that the flight of an arrow or a javelin - either a manifestation of light - has the inverse curve, but then people may argue that both arrow and javelin are made of fuel rather than flame, while sight clearly is an effect of flame, not fuel. Or something like that, there might be phlogiston and ether involved, too.

Reading David’s sources on tanning I started to wonder what kind of containers or vats the praxians woud use. Skulls, possibly with treated interior, make good chalices and crucibles for preparing agents, if you get them in decent size. Herdman skulls not only have a good volume but also offer a good material for tanning, a win-win situation. Gourds or skin-clad vessels won’t last long exposed to the tanning agents, but they might last long enough. Holes in the ground are fine if you can line them with some material to make them watertight, like clay, dung or sludge that you let seep into pereable soil. I think that quite a few curing and tanning processes (and definitely some pof the processes producing the agents from raw ingredients) are supposed to be anaerobiic, requiring at least good water coverage, though ideally a seal against air. Other tanning processes I have seen applied involved open vats and people stirring the hides with paddles. I guess that dugout trees can make good vats, but we are discussing Prax, where such resources would be rare. Sitill, master tanners might have traded for earthware vats or barrels. (Some aspects of my daytime job taking samples or making measurements “in the field” aren’t too far from handling tanning agents under primitive conditions, which is what has me wondering about such things.) The source on making sheephorn bows has resting periods for the sinew-backed bows on the rack for a couple of weeks before they become usable. As far as I know, such resting or aging processes benefits from constant, con trolled conditions. That means taking such unfinished bows on the move will be detrimental to their performance. There were a couple of other steps which suggestlonger resting oeriods than the average stay of e herd in a place to me. I guess that the Praxians have two distinct qualities of bows or similarly complex items they produce – quick and dirty for short-lived replacements for broken stuff, or carefully and slowly for superior quality worthy of a khan or distinguished warrior. If I interpret David correctly, then a bow isn't something you buy, but something you work for, at least among the Praxians. That's certainly true for fletchery, but may well extend to all other arms and armor of the Praxians, and probably to a good deal of equipment used by the Orlanthi as well, when you don't go for highest quality. In that regard, how much time otherwise available for training does go into the making of a composite bow? Is the value in lunars (minus raw materials, unless you work for getting these, too) comparable to the training time that amount of lunars would buy you?

You're confusing that with Lokarnos, aren't you? Minting coins with somewhat constant weight isn't all that hard, and you will find that coins from a not even so narrow time of production will be rather even. Beating the obverse (and later the reverse) into the coin with dice is a process without any significant loss of material, so as long as your raws are cast somewhat evenly, you can use those coins as weights. Trust in coin traditionally was limited. The Scandinavian markets adapted to coins only after decades of contact with the Hanseatic League, and money changers made many a coin just by collecting foreign coin and translating it into locally accepted specie (and vice versa), for a fee, assaying the degree of valuable metal in the foreign coins and looking out for counterfeits. Now the Bronze Age trade didn't know coinage, that's one of the many Iron Age anachronisms in Glorantha. But there were other means of payment, like salary, the distribution of packets of salt, or somewhat standardized oxhide ingots of copper or tin. Or certain sea-shells cut to beads of a certain size, on strings. If you want to give weights, maybe karat (number of carob tree seeds) might have been the better way than troy ounces.

Praxian crafters have the nomad's dilemma - stay with the clan or stay with your special workplace. If the drying process for the horn or the curing process for sinews or hides takes weeks at constant conditions, packing up and following the herd doesn't really help with your quality. Jason's middle-of-the-night scenario (Berlin time) led his party into a gully just outside of the Dead Place, one of the most reliably dry places in Prax (alongside the Long Dry). Great conditions to age your horn parts before assembling that bow, but a lousy place to survive for more than a few days while your personal beasts nibble off all of the available vegetation. For the glue, it will probably easier to use something squirming in one of the marshes than the fish stuff used by the Silk Road bowyers. Still, you will need some liquid for the glue to become applicable. It doesn't have to be potable, though, which means that what you find in the marshes will most likely be sufficient. The other approach would be runic. Archery is a fire-related custom, and bowyers might have fire magics adaptable for preparing their raw material.

Adulthood and general pantheon initiation is initiation to the clan wyter, and if you are willing to join the cult of Orlanth (or Ernalda), it is likely that you can just go on and take that initiation along. (I have the suspicion that the same initiation is going to work for Barntar, too, in places where Orlanth is on the list of anti-state cults.) If you are going to join any other cult than your gender-appropriate deity, you will have to undergo a separate initiation for sure. If you want to join a less usual subcult of your main deity, ditto. In Orlanthi society, it is possible that a person undergoes the adulthood initiation and then becomes a spirit-talker rather than a mainstream initiate. Such individuals might end up with a spirit ally rather than rune magic, and a possible career as assistant shaman or even shaman. Such a person still is a member of the religion, and will act as lay worshiper in the clan holy days. One problem with specialist cult initiation is to get enough of a congregation of initiates and priests to be able to hold these rites. That's why initiees to these deities often have to travel to a tribal or even city confederation temple to undergo cultic initiation, and there are cults like Lhankor Mhy and possibly Chalana Arroy which demand an apprenticehood in order to qualify for initiation. This apprenticehood may have started before adulthood initiation if the candidate comes from a background that would have recognized the character's affinity to this cult early on. Is it possible to become an initiate of a special deity directly, without having undergone clan initiation previously? I think so, although a combination with a standard adulthood rite would be likely. Standard adulthood initiation for Orlanthi male and vingan gender includes experiencing the I Fought We Won mystery. The depth of this experience varies. In RuneQuest terms, I think that initiation to the wyter establishes the magical link through which magic point sacrifices are given in clan and tribal rites so that they are more beneficial for the clan magic, too. People from outside of the direct community (clan, temple) will still provide magic for the rite with their participation (see e.g. the example of Vasana's lay worshipper participation at the Paps).

Every adult Orlanthi has been expected to have been an initiate, and thereby to have access to Rune Magic, since the very beginning. The main difference is that initiate rune magic has been made reusable, so that a lot fewer rune spells are one-use. The frequency of POW-gain rolls decides how willing people may be to sacrifice for rune points. Lay membership affects mainly the less popular specialist cults. Orlanth and Ernalda do have lay members, but they tend to have at least as many initiates anywhere in Orlanthi lands. (There's a reason why these folk are called Orlanthi.) There are numerous cultural alternatives to Orlanth in Theyalan cultures which aren't exactly Orlanthi, and some fewer alternatives for Ernalda. Plus there is the Barntar escape for places with oppressive overlordship (Grazelands, Lunar Provinces) which offers a more agriculturally focussed male cult. This approach with rune magic for everyone gets weaker when you leave Orlanthi lands, Beast Riders, or active Lunars. However, that also means that you are leaving the focus of the cultures presented in RQG.

One thing I would handle different from when I chose RQ3 over any other game system available at the time (1988 or so) is to have a lot less but broader skills, going in the direction OpenQuest has gone from the MRQs. I get it that the way RQG is presented as almost fully backward compatible with RQ2 does carry over that multitude of skills. However, I recently revisited the game system which I played before switching to RQ, which probably noone outside of Germany has ever heard about, and I found that what originally attracted me to the system - the detailed skill system - has become a bit of a burden now that I have collected experience with much leaner sets of abilities in other systems. Approaching RQ the same way, leaving nostalgia aside, a RQG lite based on basically skill categories, possibly slightly subdivided, with the option to take specialisations that either opportunity or personal preference create as break-out skills (much like HQ handles it) might have been a better way to attract players new to RQ. A leaner set of skills to track with slightly higher abstraction would still create enough gritty stuff to hang on to as you take weak (or buffered) hit after hit. I am quite pleased with the magic systems, even with sorcery for specialists, as far as Dragon Pass and Prax are concerned. I have come to doubt whether RQ magic works as well to reflect the cult practices of the Lodrili (who don't usually initiate to a single deity the way the Orlanthi do) or the Westerners. It should work well enough for henotheist Malkioni, though (and given that that's one of my main points of wrestling RQ3 rules and the setting together, this is saying something). The only D&D that I have played in earnest was AD&D 1st edition and a little bit of 2nd edition. The system sucked for me for a number of reasons. No unified skill system (only the Thief class had any in 1st ed), classes, XP for gold, XP at all, levels granting endless supplies of HP, and near limitless world-shattering magic overshadowing the non-magicians after a certain level, before which the MU was nearly useless unless he directed henchmen/followers (which few DMs allowed in the environment I played D&D in). And many of these points are what people who love the game consider its strengths.

I think that Pavis is about the mythos of the Western rather than about the Western itself. The post-Dragonrise period is similar to the southern USA after Mexico has retreated as the force providing law and order. There isn't really a foreign cavalry anywhere in Prax except at Knight Fort, since the Pol Joni are immigrants gone native in Prax for certain amounts of native. They probably are comparable to the Scot and former African slave portions of the southwestern Appalachian tribes. The original placement of Pavis is quite extraordinary, and its re-occupation by Dorasar is rather similar in nature, with parallels (a horse-riding tribe dominant in northern and western Prax and a powerful political entity beyond in Quivinela). However, to me this feels more like some place in Syria - possibly Palmyra - than a place in the Wild West. The presence of the Rubble with its ancient ruins and with survivors of their builders is like nothing the Wild West period has to offer. (Unless you take pre-Columbian events where climate wiped out impressive urban civilizations, but that would eliminate both riding and the European-descended settlers that make up the myth of the West.) Henry Rider Haggard might be the other major inspiration to look at, possibly coupled with Arab colonization of Africa from the coasts. Not just Pavis, but also places in the Wastes beyond.

Where tolerated. When you have a strong centralized power (like e.g. the Roman Empire, after having dealt with the Iceni revolt), you may take a dim look at native farmers having tools that could be used against your military. The ancient world invented castes to deal with this problem. Wielding a weapon became a privilege. Doesn't it follow that rather than giving the price for a bow, the rules should give a price for the tools to make one, and the time it needs? Seriously. Much like weapon proficiency with a firearm should include proper maintenance and repairs, shouldn't proficiency with a self bow include making a replacement? That article ties its usefulness to the too moderate and clement climate. Let me note that the heyday of the English Longbow followed a Little Ice Age (the one that destroyed the Greenland colony of Icelanders), so the yew harvested following that century may have been way better suited.

There is also the possibility that people don't travel the spirit world in their normal shape, but that they assume the shape of a totem instead. (Think avatars in video-games.) This other shape will likely have natural attack forms which will be simulated by the Spirit Combat skill.

Hidage for pasture comes in two varieties - pasture in your tula, used for making hay in the summer, and upland pasture where there are few if any permanent settlements for transhumant summer pasture, or plains outside of your immediate neighborhood where your herders drive herds to fatten them. Cattle herded that far from the clan tula will be less able to provide milk, so there is a likelihood that cows with older calves will be kept close to the tula when they have milk to spare, and the rest of the lifestock will provide milk to the herders and possibly conserved as cheese, butter or similar occasionally brought home by clan folk visiting or when personnel shifts.

Getting a good stave for the strength adapted to your needs takes quite a bit of value, because yew (a natural laminate if cut up correctly) will grow only very slowly - it takes about 80 years to grow to a size when you can start considering it for a bow stave. On comparison, you get an excellent spear shaft made from ash in maybe 25 years, probably less. Wood for bows would be a very controlled resource, and the best quality will be rather scarce. A longbow is a self bow. There is no real difference except the draw weight and bow length the bowyer goes for. Self bows can be re-inforced by applying a "composite" to their backs, e.g. sinews or some other wood (e.g. bamboo), which will increase the amount of work you have to put into making one. It doesn't have to be yew or the equivalent thereof. You can go for less suited wood, which may mean you don't get to apply your damage bonus to your archery. Or you can trade with the elves, like the Rathori do. If it is just a light hunting bow, yes. Bow staves for heavier war bows are harder to get, unless your elf trading partners grow them to your specification within a season or two. If you look at the Turkish recurved bows made from horn and sinew (mostly), cheap doesn't really come into play. Water buffalo horn and sinews from moose legs were used, and at least one of those items had to be imported from quite a bit away. Those bows have a heck of kick at relatively low draw weight - a 100 lbs bow could fire 434 meters. That's manageable with sufficient specific muscle training and just above average strength. Praxians probably value sable horn and bison or high llama sinew, and possibly herdman manes for the strings. Pentans might trade for musk ox horn and use horse sinews and hair for the rest. Grazers might use wood for the basis of their bows, then add sable horn and sinews from horses. Bamboo is a great material for wooden composite bow backs. It also can serve for the points and arrow shafts.

Basically, if you want a sword, first you ask in your stead whether there is one you could take. That sword would be wielded by you, but remain the property of your stead. Assuming your stead doesn't have any surplus sword (fairly likely), you go ask your clan chief whether your local redsmith can make you one. Since a sword is an item used in sacred rites, your chances aren't as bad as they would have been e.g. in Viking society. If you can get it inside the clan, you will most likely have to give or do quite a bit in compensation - not necessarily to the redsmith, if the chief simply recompenses his needs from some other clan resource, but you need to provide something to fill up that gap in clan resources. Cattle would be fine, but the cattle you herd and breed are mostly the clan's property anyway, and used by the clan for payments like tribute or when buying new resources, or for sacrifices. There may be some cattle at your stead that the stead has a claim on rather than the clan, and you could get your steadmaster to pass on one or more of those to get your sword. You can join a raid or cattle raid organized by your clan, and if you perform well, the leader of the raid or the chief may grant you one of these cattle for purchases or assign it to your stead. That means that you have the credit of one cow for any such purchases. If you happen to find a sword or a nice piece of armor on that raid, this too goes to the leader of the raid or the sponsor (most likely the chief), who may then acknowledge your service to the clan and let you wield it. Or not, if there is someone else who is more worthy in the chief's eyes to be given a sword before you get one. You may of course take your leave from the clan and go adventuring on your own, possibly joining a small warband. Again, in the warband the booty is distributed by the leader, according to the needs, and including the needs to feed the warband. It may happen that that sword is going to be sold to feed your warband. But let's assume your warband was successful, and somehow you receive a sword that is yours to carry and even to keep after you part ways with your warband. Time to return to your clan. Your clan will of course welcome you back if you haven't parted in anger or strife. But still, while you were away, lots of work that you could have done in your clan hasn't been done by you, and the clan expects you to make up for that by sharing some of your booty. Since you haven't had a leader from the clan, it will be you to decide what to share with the clan. Quite possibly that sword might be the one item sufficient to meet their expectations, so you might be obliged to give it to the clan. And then, unless he is displeased by you and how you accounted yourself, the chief is more or less expected to return the sword to you in recognition of your endeavors, in the name of the clan, toast you, etc. But that's not guaranteed.

Some entities may be mixed because the world they manifested in was already mixed-, and some entities like Kolat even unmixed themselves from the runic source. There are other cases, too, like Yelm, who was dismembered and re-assembled, possibly using parts previously used in other dis- and re-assembly jobs - somewhere in Nida or Slon there may be protocols about the re-assembly process. And maybe the distinction only started to matter within Time. Heort - the Silver Age founder of the Heortlings - approached Orlanth as a shaman. He was busy sorting other things, like the living from the dead, and probably had little to no thoughts to spare on whether Orlanth is more anchored in the God World than in the Spirit World. (Back in the time of the strictly separate Otherworlds, Greg said that Orlanthi worship is probably about 30% animist and the rest theist). With Yinkin, we have the special case that Yinkin chose sides when the Serpent Beast Brotherhood and the Vingkotlings were at odds, and possibly earlier. The Bad Dogs harming Yinkin might have been a normal event in the Hsunchen/Serpentbeast ecology, and it is likely that many a form of beast went extinct in the Gods War at the teeth or claws of other Serpentbeast beasts. Anaxial's Roster mentions Shell Deer and Horned Wolves as part of the co-(d)evolution of predator and prey. Yinkin getting it on with spirit, deity or whatever is an excellent point. Even without a shred of spirit world from the paternal side (that might have been ripped out of Yinkin by the Bad Dogs), maternal spirit nature would be able to create shadowcat entities tied to the Spirit World. When Yinkin was healed from the damage done by the Bad Dogs, he emerged as a divine entity. (He may have been mixed or already severed earlier. Possibly even at an encounter with his father.)