Joerg

Sure - I didn't mean that founding the new market place was all that Derik did, but that is what was left in the Verge. I don't quite see how Derik could have come that far into the Pure Horse knowledge of the Grazers or the nomads ruling parts of Peloria. Derik likely was part of the 1395 raid that gave Yarandros his Goldeneye stallion - a feat pretty much unparalleled outside of intra-Grazer raiding. The Tarsh section of CHDP does tell us that Derik dreamed of the Horse Path. Derik did manage to find Grazer allies in his establishment of the Pol Joni tribe - probably after Jardandarin Lifeshield made peace with the Tarshites again. The Grazers were beginning to disintegrate - dissident clans may already have looked for a different place to settle after Tarsh had proved to be a fickle ally. Derik's invasion of Prax occurred six generations after the Battle of Necklace Horse. Even though the Grazers had abandoned their Praxian Pure Horse ancestry through Ironhoof's adoption ritual, there may have been enough memory of the life in Prax that Derik's proposal could have drawn some of the Grazers out of their somewhat diminished lands. Are the Pol Joni as much of a Praxian tribe? I view them more as a less confrontational repeat of the Pure Horse Folk presence. When he entered Prax, Derik had 20 years of support by Yarandros left before he had to survive by virtue of his own resources. Sorry, but Derik did not follow the Pure Horse tenets - his tribe herds cattle, children of Storm Bull if not necessarily of Eiritha, and this makes his herds attractive and acceptable for Praxians. Praxian intertribal raids rarely go for the steeds, but for the herds which feed the tribes. The Black Net is a reference to the Battle of Alavan Argay, true. The Teshnan presence around the Zola Fel delta will have been eliminated by the time Derik entered the marches in force, which might re-open the solar magics for horse riders. I find this pretty far-fetched. And we never learned about this important female in any of the stories about the Pol Joni - not as an ancestress or goddess for their steeds, not as a human heroine or avatar. Does the Paps reach back into the Green Age at all? Eiritha was a mobile daughter of Genert, if present in the Green Age at all. It was Tada who rooted her under the mountain and hill range when hiding her from Death - definitely not a Green Age event. On the other hand, going that far back will make Ernalda the ruler of this holy place. She does not have a problem with horses, and might provide a horse handmaiden. The question is whether this affects the Eirithan stance. I don't see the Paps as integral to Derik's success. The Pol Joni never approached the Sacred Ground around the Paps in clan or tribal groups. I see no indication that horses are accepted at the Paps. We do know that individual Pol Joni visit the Paps, and being Praxians, they probably approach the place mounted on their tribal steeds, but we cannot say whether these horses are allowed to graze on the Sacred Ground or whether they must carry bags of oats to feed from. Joraz Kyrem's "only in bondage" doesn't have to mean painting stripes on the beasts, it might as well be realized by applying something similar to shackles to the steeds. There wouldn't be any problem leading a herd of cattle onto the Sacred Ground, though, and the priestesses would appreciate these as gifts or sacrifices without the least qualms. We know that Olgkarth's zebra riders shared the pastures of the Pol Joni some 120 years after Derik led his tribe into Prax. I find it quite possible that they provided the escorts for those Pol Joni who wanted to visit the Paps. Derik's arrival fell into a time when the hatred for horse folk was somewhat mitigated by the Beast Riders following Sheng Seleris. By bringing cattle bred from the sacred bull of the Opili tribe of Pentans he may have provided a sufficient link to the Garden to let the tribes ignore the fact that his folk weren't riding these bulls. Derik did undo the magic of the Alavan Argay aftermath. He did release the horse folk back onto the plains. I am not sure about the canonicity about this information, but I learned years ago that at least one Pol Joni clan - IIRC the Amber - was more or less a Grazer clan converted to Pol Joni ways. In the Gloranthan now, there have been horses in Prax for slightly more than half the history - Pure Horse Folk from slightly before 620 to 1250, and Pol Joni since 1420. They weren't accepted by the Paps for their first 630 years, and I don't see why they would have been for the last 200 years.

So the characters carry some identification with Tada which is supposed to bring them to the Green Age, where they are going to drop that aspect and go do something else. One way to treat this is that whenever you go to the Green Age and do something, you are automatically carried over into the Golden Age, and have imprinted the myths with your action, just as your action has been imprinted on you. From the sound of your party composition, your players are very likely to fill the part of the disruptor. In Pelandan myths, this guy is called Vogmaradan. The Esrolians have a myth about the Three Bad Men, one of whom is Kodig - the same Kodig who is later named as the eldest son of Vingkot, but in Esrolia - Land of the 10,000 Goddesses he appears in what looks like late Green Age or Early Golden Age troubles myths. Now Kodig is a convenient way out, a jump to the Vingkotling Age. Note, however, that emerging in Ezel with the marks of Kodig is bound to cause all kinds of grief for the characters. But it doesn't have to be Kodig. You might just as well end up as one of the core supporters of Genert, and on the horizon there is this horrific army of Chaos gathering. You are right in the middle of Genert's Garden, you are honor bound to lead your portion of the Garden's forces into the maw of the opposing forces. You may exchange pre-battle witticisms with Yamsur, Seolinthur and all those other guys whose faces and names you cannot remember, for some odd reason, and strangely few if any of the other leaders present can remember your faces, or names, or may even bump into you as if they weren't aware of your presence. The Battle is approaching... Okay, this was really nasty. But then, entering the Green Age is already big and fairly often bad mojo. Jumping off a somewhat trodden and predictable path will most likely place you in a much bigger fix. You might use the cut scene above, and possibly a small number of similar unexpected consequences, as ominous flashes as the players prepare to deviate from Tada's path. Finding yourself in the Sword Story, as Grandfather Mortal. Fighting alongside Kargan Tor, leading the defense of the Celestial Palace atop the Spike. Plunging down from the Sky next to Sky River Titan, Hard Earth and a couple more deities, ten altogether. Appearing as the sworn bodyguards of King Vingkot in the Battle of Stormfall. If your players know at least some of these myths, they might wish to reconsider, and take on whichever burden Tada carried out of his myth. Maybe, after presenting these alternatives, you might saddle them with their desired outcome on a wave of very weird and possibly devastating changes. Maybe there could be a cut scene where the rebels approach Yelm to deliver the fatal strike, but it all ends with two marriages - Tolat with Artia, and your Vanganth Character as Orlanth taking wedding vows with Sedenya. I don't know what makes your players tick, but things like this might shock them. You might have them emerge as Rashoran, teaching their new insight of illumination to the other gods, finding eager disciples in Orlanth's Other Brother and his betrothed goat goddess. The Green Age is deep trouble. Refusing the reward of the Lightbringers' Quest may look like an easy alternative.

I am a rather obsessive completist collector of Gloranthan texts who has spent serious money for e.g. freeform game sets that were auctioned off at conventions, and I don't have a complete set of the Mongoose era pdfs with Gloranthan theme - only those I could acquire as cheap bundles. Sometimes it hurts to see how excellent ideas, concepts or good workmanship is mixed with research blunders or irrelevant tangents getting promoted to a supplement's spotlight. There might be some personal disappointment, too, because I had managed to get my Glorantha index as a research tool running on the glorantha.com site at the time, which means that often enough the information was less than two or three clicks away from anyone who cared to look it up. I confess that I did not update the beast to keep up with the internal canon started by Glorantha the Second Age. While the God Learner stuff had profited from rather recent Unfinished Works, much of the EWF canon was still spread across many sources. My overall judgement - if you want to play a game with gloranthan concepts without caring to go too deep into background details, the Mongoose products can serve you well. They provide an alternate Glorantha. If you want to mess with your players' grasp on reali If you want to steal Gloranthan ideas and concepts for another setting, the Mongoose books on the various races might be a good resource. Their veracity for canonical Glorantha is about on the same level as speculations on the various incarnations of the digest - some ideas are spot on, some are tangential spin-offs suddenly presented as core components. I liked the concept of active Timinit participation in the Jrusteli development of Malkionism in the Jrustela Book. No idea how the humanists would have reacted to this, or Brithini expatriats arriving in Jrustela, but I can imagine that there would have been parts of Jrustela that had active Timinit participation in the religious life of the Jrusteli humans.

You may always create a figurative death - a humiliation of the player beyond recovery for a certain ability. In an Otherworld situation, this might be loss of a rune. An Orlanthi might lose his breath, or find it chained. An Ernaldan or aldryami may become uprooted. A core feature of the character will be gone, or rewritten into a flaw. The character doesn't fall out of the game or the narration at once, though, and he or she might embrace something else as a new core feature instead, or the character might have become a slave to this last task, carrying a doom, and possibly spreading it to his communities. Or the character might retire in a spectacular way, becoming a story feature for those who traveled with him, and possibly his successor.

uuuhh ... ? This would appear to (roughly) be Caucasoid. "Fair" (i.e. northern-European) to "olive" (i.e. mediterranean) skinned is the normal skin-tone range. Olive goes all the way to Pashtun or Indian dark skin tones, as does the variation in Orlanthi. Solar types appear as extremely tanned Europeans with surprisingly golden hair and beards, while certain Darkness folk like Spolites have really pale skin (and dark hair). Even the Praxian tribes (at least the ordinary-sized ones - Bison, High Llama and Sable) count as Warerans. Note that the real warerans - the descendants of ancient Danmalastan - come in color coded castes, with golden-skinned rulers, red-skinned warriors, blue-skinned sorcerers and brown-skinned farmers, Women used to be blue-skinned in the early generations of Brithos, but the constant interbreeding with the other castes has created a predominance of fairer skin tones as the blue counteracts influences of red, gold, or brown to some extent. The Malkioni who bred back with their sea kin ended up with blueish green skin and/or the Innsmouth look. In Old Seshnela, the Pendali tribe of the Basmoli (check Prax for their appearance) had intermarried with the Likiti earth population when Froalar established his colonies of no longer immortal Brithini exiles. Under the Serpent Kings, several tribes of the Pendali/Likiti descendants intermarried with the Malkioni. The result were rather pale-skinned folk with middle-brown to dark hair. These folk conquered the Enerali tribes and other Beastfolk descendants of the Tanier Valley and deeper Ralios, and vice versa, on occasion. Modern Seshnela is really Tanisor. Fronela and northern Ralios have survivors of the Kachasti tribe of Danmalastan (presumably originally as color-coded as their Brithini cousins) mingling with the Darkness survivors of beast tribes and disbanded Storm Barbarian clans. Most Ralians can claim some Theyalan ancestry, since the Lightbringer missionaries usually married into the tribes they awakened. Storm Age Orlanthi included the blue-skinned Helerings as well as the orange- or brown-skinned Durevings and Vingkotlings. All of these were Wareran types in terms of physiognomy if not in skin coloration or hair color. I blame the influence of blue-skinned ancestors (and in the west, ancestresses) for pale skin among the Warerans. The slate-blue-skinned Veldang are the unique exception, not the caucasoid (regardless of skin coloration) Warerans. Note that intermarriages of Veldang-race folk with others creates bluish-tainted or paler skin both with Agimori and with Eastern racial types, and we learn about various blue-skinned invaders all the way up the Janube River up to Lake Oronin, so pale skin there may be a result of Veldang racial influence, too.

I am a rather obsessive completist collector of Gloranthan texts who has spent serious money for e.g. freeform game sets that were auctioned off at conventions, and I don't have a complete set of the Mongoose era pdfs with Gloranthan theme - only those I could acquire as cheap bundles. Sometimes it hurts to see how excellent ideas, concepts or good workmanship is mixed with research blunders or irrelevant tangents getting promoted to a supplement's spotlight. There might be some personal disappointment, too, because I had managed to get my Glorantha index as a research tool running on the glorantha.com site at the time, which means that often enough the information was less than two or three clicks away from anyone who cared to look it up. I confess that I did not update the beast to keep up with the internal canon started by Glorantha the Second Age. While the God Learner stuff had profited from rather recent Unfinished Works, much of the pre-existing EWF canon was still spread across many sources - the page citations of which were available as hyperlinks on the EWF pages of that collection. My overall judgement - if you want to play a game with gloranthan concepts without caring to go too deep into background details, the Mongoose products can serve you well. They provide an alternate Glorantha. If you want to mess with your players' grasp on reality, you could stage some of the scenarios in a nightmare world of Glorantha. Revealed Mythologies gives a very rough idea about the Avanapdur wars, and how the Easterners overcame that overlap of non-permanent dream reality with their own. If you want to steal Gloranthan ideas and concepts for another setting, the Mongoose books on the various races might be a good resource. Their veracity for canonical Glorantha is about on the same level as speculations on the various incarnations of the digest - some ideas are spot on, some are tangential spin-offs suddenly presented as core components. They do provide quite colorful and different monsters or NPCs for just about any other setting where you might want to introduce them. I liked the concept of active Timinit participation in the Jrusteli development of Malkionism in the Jrustela Book. No idea how the humanists would have reacted to this, or Brithini expatriats arriving in Jrustela, but I can imagine that there would have been parts of Jrustela that had active Timinit participation in the religious life of the Jrusteli humans. The Abiding Book was well represented, probably because significant parts were reproduced from Greg's documents. I felt let down with the Clanking City supplement. Who presents sceletal automatons when the city is ruled by the Flesh Machine? There were very nice clockwork punk ideas in the book, and some information taken over from Greg's briefings, but taking the Flesh of the monsters of the Flesh Machine was really really really counter-intuitive, rune-engraved and metal coated skeleton parts nonwithstanding. Dara Happa Stirs was great. The heroquesty bits were a bit too vague, but probably the best available mechanics with that edition of RQ. So: Second Age Glorantha by Mongoose does make decent to excellent modules for BRP-based fantasy games that you want to give a Gloranthan touch without going full monte. That's absolutely fine for a first approach to the setting and the rules, I did pretty much the same on my (RQ3 era) approach to Glorantha. It doesn't set you up in the Glorantha carried by the other publications available for the setting, though, and you will have to unlearn details or accept that your Glorantha varies significantly.

It would have been a last place to huddle after most resources in the more isolated steads were used up. Being slightly paranoid and definitely targeted hillbillies, the isolated steads might have been better prepared for a prolonged state of siege than the better organized clans down in Sartar, with enough stockpiles to bring at least the humans through a summer and a second winter without death by starvation. The Halogaland Vikings and coastal "Finns" (Sami) lived in the constant threat of a summer that would not support a grain harvest, or which returned less grain than was sown. While they were able to complement their diet with the reliably rich fishing, they still underwent the considerable effort to sow their grains in order to keep them from spoiling. I have no idea how winter grain would react to a summer that doesn't come. Would the plants last another year to bear fruit? I cannot think of any agriculture that attempts to wrestle more than one year's harvest from grain plots, although I know too little about rice paddies to exclude that possibility. In places which allowed two harvests a year such as the Nile delta, a second cycle of plowing and seeding was added to the agricultural calendar. Late mesolithic einkorn gathering/harvesting in Anatolia probably relied on those seeds the gatherers failed to collect when harvesting. 1623 would have been a year without much (if any) local seed grain. What had not been in the ground by the time Whitewall finally fell to the Lunars would have been subject to depletion as the naked survival needs overcame the farmers' protection of the seeds for the spring sowing, especially after spring did not arrive by Sea Season 1622. The grain scarcity would have affected even Seshnela and Melib as a third of the Esrolian grain-growing area was covered by the windstop effect and the accompagnying winter. For all its remoteness from usual Lunar activities, Exilestead was almost within spitting distance of the New Lunar Temple. The remaining Lunar occupation forces were hit almost as hard by the ensuing famine as were the Sartarites and other natives - the veteran settlements of Wulfsland sure didn't feel any love by the Provincial government, or see much in the way of support. Only Tarsh inside the Glowline had somewhat survivable conditions. Tatius' temple project had absolute priority in terms of supply trains, so many a local commander would either have been forced to go marauding beyond the usual oppressive tax collecting through tax farmers, or to join forces with some of the less hostile natives to ensure survival. Unfortunately most of the Chaos types of the region are excellent tunnelers (Krarshtkids) or climbers (scorpion men, broo with mountain goat ancestry). Unless the upland folk pay tribute to the Nar Sylla eyries to help alert them and push back any such intrusions, chaotic raiders will be able to cross those saddles. Usually the watershed won't be identical to the rain shadow, so you get some fraction of the run-off from the mountains on the shadow side, too - like Sounders River. The strata of the Storm Mountains might also provide artesian wells along the foothills in the verge, even though I expect a fair bit of karst terrain in the foothills, too. Maybe karst caves and underground water flows are a key to Verge survival in times of hostile conditions, whether by invaders, summer-less years or other calamities.

Nice to see this confirmed. Follow Chosen Leaders is not restricted to one's own kin in the clan. But I really asked about the reverse situation - how does the clan community regard and treat those kinsfolk living far away (i.e. more than a day's march away) in the city? How is their status before the clan wyter when they return to their clan (for some it may not even be their birth clan if they are second generation city folk) for important clan holy days that don't clash with their temple obligations in the city? Do they receive the welcome of kin or of guests? Are they able to participate in more than a support role in the rites (provided their position in the cult warrants such a role)? (While I am at it, would a priest from a nearby temple with some relevance to the occasoin visiting the clan for this festival be there as a participant, or as a honored guest?) And how does the same apply to clan people who have entered the retinue of a tribal king, staying at the royal stead rather than with their kin in the clan? Also, what treatment can the tribal king and his specialist retainers expect when attending a clan festival? Which brings me to urban festivals. We have one in-world description of such an event, when Biturian Varosh witnesses the effects of City Harmony on Jarang Bladesong's provocation during the Pavis procession. Any thoughts how these would go along?

Urbanized Dundaelos: Do you mean citizens of Swenstown with Dundealos tribal membership sent packing or refused land rights in the city when the Lunars installed the Enstalos tribe instead? It loks like it sits on the vertical border of Prax. While a contour line doesn't immediately indicate a ridge, I expect Barbarian Town to sit atop a far-reaching extension of the Storm Mountain foothills, providing ample warning of approaching riders from the East. Derik was born among the Dundealos tribe, and he might have convinced some of his natice tribal folk to follow him on his mission to take the conflict out of the foothills into the Praxian pastures. Having a town to house craftsfolk and especially smiths would give the new nomad tribe a lasting benefit on the plains. There might be a similar resource at the Paps, but that has less access to the mines of the Storm Mountains. A statue of the founder - how common is it among Orlanthi to create a statue for major leaders? Is this statue meant to house the wyter of the otherwise nomadic Pol Joni? Given that the herd cattle and horsese, there is no reason not to. I don't recall any reports that Praxian herd beasts could not survive on the bounty of the Earth outside of Prax. Praxians might avoid those places because their beasts might catch some lingering diseases of the wetland herds. Just as in Khan of Khans, I think that they approve of cattle, as descended from Storm Bull's sons, and Eiritha does extend her care to any imported cattle, too. My impression is that Derik went to the old sacred place of the Verge clans and elevated their little marketplace village to a full-sized town. The place might even function in a way similar to the cities of Sartar, with each clan of the Pol Joni assigned certain camping and grazing areas inside the stockade. The farming population of the Verge doesn't appear to field a military unit except for joint defense of the town in times of big trouble, when their fortified steads are in danger of being overrun.. I think that the establishment of Barbarian Town preceded Sartar's arrival by at least 40 years. Derik might have drawn enough Quivini followers unwilling to spend their lives as nomads to create a new clan, most likely from fellow tribesmen and personal kin from the Dundealos. He may have brought other "civilized" followers from the Tarshite court, too - remember that Derik spent a couple of years as a retainer of Yarandros, probably the leader of a heroband already. Derik was part in Yarandros' raid for the Goldeneye horse, and led other retainers of Yarandros during his raid against the Opili nation of Pentan horse nomads on his raid for the magical bull that he used to establish his future herd on the Praxian plains. Under Yarandros, Bagnot was second only to the big cities of Esrolia (Rhigos and Nochet) in terms of splendor and prestige. Swenstown has the much better infrastructure to bring in luxuries or crafted goods, but IMO Barbarian Town will remain a place where you go to mend broken or badly bent metal weapons and armor, and where other sedentary resources are available. That Sartar allegiation won't interfere with their position in Prax, I suppose. Praxians are bound to be involved in Argrath's future ventures, beast nomads alongside with the cattle bastards. The Verge will likely remain a popular place of refuge after the Empire returns to Sartar in the aftermath of the Battle of Fyllich Kwan. There will be bronze and brass mines in the storm Mountains, as well as some silver. If we take a look at Bronze Age mining technology, we might find steads which have a shaft or a tunnel to a deposit of metal which they trade at Barbarian town. The Hero Wars will make these supplies ever more important, so a reduced Exilestead is bound to continue while the Hero Wars haven't upturned all of the world. Exilestead is a proven place of hope for survival through years of cosmic conflict, and it might attract desperate refugees from some of the catastrophes expected to hit the world in the next decades. (So you might get rowdy miners in addition to tent-dwelling horse nomad cattle herders and visting natives of the adjacent plains. All that is missing for a stereotype Wild West town are the colts and a train station...)

The Guide is the great overview over the physical world of Glorantha and some of its history. It is a great basic foundation for the world. It is not the Ultimate Book - that would be a book about the mythic foundations of the world, of the myths driving the mundane nature of the world. Such a book doesn't exist, though. It might be approached on a much smaller scale by a collection that would reflect Belintar's Book (an in-Glorantha document). Parts of the Stafford Library might contribute to it. Could this book be written? I am not certain. Also, much of it would appear irrelevant to most people's involvement with Glorantha. To compare with the Tolkien estate, I did consume the Silmarillion completely, and went happily for and through the Unfinished Tales and the more detailed fragments that formed the basis of the Silmarillion in the first iteration released by Christopher Tolkien. I went for the verse editions of the lays, but didn't quite make it through them. They lost me on the following iterations on the releases. The Guide has the Silmarillion level information on Glorantha. It lacks many of its details, and focusses primarily on the oncoming Hero Wars, giving information for earlier Ages only when pertinent on developments in the oncoming conflict. I don't think that many people have gone and created alliterative or verse poems of the Gloranthan myths (yet) - most of the poetic effort I have seen has gone into the Gloranthan songbook. Given the quality of the Orlanthi staves of the storm voice, I suspect Greg hasn't gone far in this direction either, so there won't be much verse to parse. Greg has a different mode of storytelling, a prose that may come around as dry in places, and at the same time very evocative in seemingly throw-away side remarks. Sometimes these can be parsed, at other times they can just be referenced for further study. Delving deep into those fragments of or hints at further myths can be maddening at times, especially if you approach these with a mind to map these to a time-line. I think the Arkati mapping of the myths was a version of hypertext links rather than creating a formal structure - that's what the God Learners attempted to do, and did succeed with as far as they could, before placing their structure above the real myths, and attempting to bend those myths to their structure. An annotated book of myths with branching and crossing of paths might be a theoretical ultimate source to travel these myths - a game which Greg seems to have chased all those years.

The Guide gives an "urban" population of about 1000 and a rural population around it of about 5000 people. This is where Harmast Barefoot was initiated during the Orlanth blackout caused by Lokamayadon, so there could be a holy place which saw some frantic activity during the great winter. I picture the place as a market frequented by the Pol Joni, but run by traditional agrarian Orlanhti. The size appears to be that of a normal clan center in Sartar. In my opinion, there are a number of rather hardy, old-fashioned and rather small clans living in the high valleys among the southern peaks of the Storm Mountains, a few of them even year round. Those with access to the foothills on the Praxian side may use Barbarian Town as their market, given the presence of the Queendom of Jab on the western side.

IMG visiting the City of Wonders wasn't the big equivalent of the Black Spear Hunt, but a fairly regular occurrance for people trafficking across the Mirrorsea Bay. There was the Fish Road, there were ships crossing the bay, and there were the bridges. While life on the island may have been a sometimes surreal experience, there were temporary inhabitants. I have a Pelaskite character who in his backstory spent a bit over a year on the island as a toddler, playing with Ludoch children swimming through the air and other surreal stuff in the fisherman's quarter. (This happened during the preparations for Dormal's big voyage to the West.) There are bound to have been other big projects which saw folk invited to the city, living there for a time, then returning to their task outside. This has a bit of the foretaste of heaven that is said to have been prepared by the Hashishimi leaders at Alamut - a glimpse of a paradisical existance that could be granted by the Godking to faithful followers.

I agree about being an unwitting participant if you just live in the Holy Country and participate in the mainstream cult activities. However, there used to be people who dedicated themselves to the service of the Godking, and these people would have invested more, magically, and may have received some magic according to their function inside the Godking's infrastructure. Calling up the Raibow Bridge to the City of Wonders may have been such a boon for dedicated worshippers, unless those bridges are meant to be permanent installations (which I sort of doubt).

IMO the cult of Belintar would offer very little in personal magics for the follower, apart from insights in the Otherworld Side of the Holy Country of Belintar. I would treat that as a Grimoire in HQ, with a body of spells similar to Pavis, yes. There might be some specific magic for functionaries of the Holy Country. But, more importantly, the Book of Belintar is a handbook for Heroquesting, a thorough exploration of the Kethaelan Other Side, and pathways for participants of the Tournament of the Masters of Luck and Death. Of course, it is hard to get your hands on a somewhat complete edition of the book, even though lesser editions have seen relatively wide spread. The runes Mastery, Luck and Death might very well be common HeroQuest awards that this book may guide you towards.

Third Wave of immigration to Sartar by urban folk from Kethaela: Sartar came before there were any meaningful cities. The biggest settlements were places like Clearwine - an earth temple and tribal center in an ancient hillfort - or Runegate - a tribal center at a crossing across the Swan River and traditional starting point for the route across the Dragonspine to Shaker's Temple. Neither such place would have welcomed many foreigners, except as new kin marrying into the clan. Wilmskirk was the first city which welcomed guilds - organisations which routinely attract foreigners to join them. The urban population of Sartar around 1495 probably included some 5000 recent urban immigrants. In 1470, Wilms was one of the very few urban immigrants from Heortland. According to KoDP, there would have been routine marriage contacts to Heortland in cases when many widows were left after bad attrition in battles. I find the urban development in the pre-Roman Danubian area quite adequate for comparison with Sartar. Chieftains' seats like Glauburg or Heuneburg gave way to oppida like Kelheim or Vindobona, or even planned cities like the oppidum of Manching which adopted the layout promoted by Hippodamus. If we want to fit the ethnic stereotype that Orlanthi art direction is going to aim for, we might want to look at the Indus Valley for inspiration, too. Mycene and Troy both were kings' castles with an adjacent trading center rather than cities with a strong urban oligarchy. Classical Greece apparently relied very strongly on a broad class of slave labor, whether in their mines or in their agriculture. The concept of the free farmer as the backbone of the military was replaced by that of the slave-owning citizen serving as warrior-nobility. Not a model we find among the Theyalans except among the Sun Domers, which is why I am not too happy about proliferation of hoplite-like weapons and armour among the Sartarites. Helmets are ok. Minoans or Aegaeans without the ships - that is similar to imagining huns or mongols without their horses, or Praxians on foot. The little that is commonly known about Thracians does fit the "hill barbarian" culture.

Loyalties exist, no doubt, but: Are these like the loyalty of a daughter of a clan married into another clan? Or are they the loyalty of a clan member on prolonged absence, but certain to return to the clan (unless perishing e.g. during a term as mercenary)? And how does this clan loyalty work out in reciprocation? Is it possible to be a clan member of say the Famous Bell clan and living as a citizen of Jonstown? At least some of these tribes (Levi, Simeon) turned out to be castes rather than tribes. Jerusalem had Mount Zion, much like Samaria had Mount Gerizim - a pan-tribal holy place, attracting pilgrims and even permanent settlers from other tribes. I have been wondering about the Malkioni. The Brithini have two pre-histories - one as a separate folk native to that island, descended from the land goddess, and the other as refugees from Danmalastan and its six tribes (actually three, given the secession of the Vyimorni as Vadeli, the elimination of the Tadeniti, and the exodus of the Waertagi). Do or did the Brithini of Brithos identify themselves as mainly Enrovalini with Kadeniti and non-emigrated Kachasti, or are their divisions mainly along caste lines? I wonder how much influence the inhabitants of Nochet not represented by Grandmothers of Enfranchised Houses really have in the government of the city. The Grandmothers have tyrant power over their houses, and can and will order their subject kin to act opposed to their personal well-being. A coven of Grandmothers forms the Eminence Grise behind the Queen of Nochet, who often enough becomes just a pawn in their intrigues. Less often since the reign of Bruvala, though she used up two of her daughters in such struggles. Again, I wonder which role the other enfranchised groups play - e.g. the Great Library and the Grand Hospital, or the massive but Grandmother-less Sartarite population. The Grandmothers of the Esrolian houses can form a comfortable majority if presenting a unified front, if they choose to do so. When they don't, they may look for support from other enfranchised groups, but I don't see how other enfranchised groups could start an initiative without a Grandmother's authority.

There are plenty urban dwellers in the Holy Country with Sartarite background - roughly a quarter of the population of Nochet, a prominent Sartarite royal was active in Karse, Prince Temertain was dug up in the small Seapolis knowledge temple. These people may qualify as kin even though they maintain only tenuous connections with their birth clans, and their offspring will have been immersed in Kethaelan urban culture, with access to sorcery. Unfortunately, the Esvulari sorcery is tied to Esvulari families, and they are now described as strictly caste-endogamous folk, so there isn't that much chance for their sorcery to leak out. God Forgot sorcery might be easier to access and learn, through some trade apprenticehood with the rather few God Forgotten inhabiting other Kethaelan cities. Other Malkioni sorcery is available in a couple of mercenary bands which have their own wizards. Finally, there is the Book of Belintar, a sorcerous grimoire (similar to that of Pavis) lesser copies of which can be used by Kethaelan sorcerers devoted to the idea of the Holy Country. Many of these will be Lhankor Mhy initiates rather than Malkioni-like sorcerers. The issue of guild spells (spell indicating magical knowledge, not a magical charm or a divine manifestation of runic power) hasn't seen any official treatment under HQ2 or HQG, and even less so in any incarnation of RQ. RQ2 did have products of guild sorcery, in alchemical potions that conveyed some magical effect, similar to Battle Magic. The system didn't call this sorcery, though. Dwarf sorcery is another way, about as jealously guarded as are dwarf inventions like gun powder. Apostate dwarves may use their sorcery, but wouldn't teach it.

King Arthur Pendragon, usually just called Pendragon.

Re-designing a generic magic system to fit the Gloranthan concepts can be quite an exercise in absurdity. I tried to define Stygian churches with RQ3 rules, and basically it didn't work too well. Mike Dawson attempted to create a Malkioni sorcerer with RQ3 rules, and the result (which was published in Strangers of Prax) did little to capture Malkionism. I tried the Stygian approach again with the playtest rules of Avalon Hill's RQ4 - Adventures in Glorantha project, which never came to fruition. The rules supported this a little better, but still left a lot to improve. I admit that I haven't attempted to turn RQ6 or Mythras into a Gloranthan game. I played in a convention test game for the Harrek Saga project, basically with MRQ2 rules on their way to RQ6, and found it to work for the pre-created character I was playing, but I didn't sit down with players trying to carve out their very personal character. Basically: I expect magic systems which make using the magic a fun experience rather than an exercise in book-keeping, with divine magic called upon reasonably often. I took part in the discussions about a rune magic pool system in the middle of the 90ies of last century, and what I have seen so far has taken the lessons from that discussion to the heart. While I can create a scenario for HeroQuest, I still have difficulties presenting predictably manageable challenges. Not so in games of the BRP family. I could create a multi-limbed monster for RQ3 on the fly if I needed one, with hit locations etc, and combat opponents of predictable toughness, too. I expect to be able to reuse those skills with RQG. Magic for all the various religions that works, that is about on par with one another, and which doesn't turn into a resource allocation slugathon - that is what I expect from this game.

I would rather be interested in adding a limb for certain activities - a branch of prosthetics that has been underused. Replacing limbs is cyberpunk, adding limbs is creepy in other ways.

And without mentioning Bronze Age on the cover, too. Interesting use of the Sartar rune for the new trademark logo "Greg Stafford's Glorantha".

So basically, we are talking about typical late Bronze through early to middle Iron Age Indogermanic cultures. I would still call those people Celts, excluding any notion of Irish and British island Celts but including Ibero-celtic culture, but I learned that the Irish stereotype is too ingrained in the anglophone community, so I subscribe heavily to Jeff's "banded ceramics and urnfield culture" phrasing for the very same people. Aegaeans without olive tree cultivation and naval activities have lost 60 to 80% of their identity to me. Danubian cultures are way closer. And the Pelaskites, the only naval culture we have among the Theyalans, have been depicted with distinctly non-minoan but polynesian or indonesian overtones, with only a little of the neolithic Bodensee stilthouse influence remaining. We get highly anachronistic triremes, though. While long past the historical period of Sartar, I find strong parallels in the development of the Baltic Sea region in the Viking and Hanseatic League era. A southerner brings civilisation to the Obodrite chieftains by establishing cities (and villages) in their area, making the local chieftains the overseers of those new settlers and city folk. Sartar did not establish villages, but the cities he established attracted urban folk from Heortland and Esrolia, creating a third wave of immigration ignored in the histories of King of Sartar. I find early Rome a better model than anything in the Aegaeis, really - here we have a farmers' kingdom turning into a city state and republic. The economic model fits a lot better than Athens, and the seas don't play a role until after the conquests of Latinum, the Etruscans, and surviving the Gaulic invasion (to avoid any association with Irish). The Etruscans might be another good model, even though they were operating with iron rather than terrestrial bronze. Their level of metal use was more similar to Orlanthi levels than anything in the terrestrial Bronze Age. I have problems with this sudden identification of "tribe" with "kin". The tribe is as much an identification for clan membership (legal kin) or blood ties as the European Union is an identification of say Polish or Irish nationality. Your clan was formed at least 250 years ago, quite likely it was the result of a clan split that carries on traditions reaching back to the Dragonkill, or in extreme cases beyond the Dawn. There are comparatively new clans that formed specifically from distinct groups joining up to brave the wilderness the Dragonkill left behind, though, or clans that resulted from splits of extremely successful clans, like the four core Colymar clans. A few clans were formed even later, like the Black Spear clan of the Colymar. Clans were destroyed in the course of Quivini history, too, as were tribes. King of Sartar mentions a few near-cataclysmic events - the Beastman Wars, the arrival of the Telmori, Jaldon's great raid that created the Pol Joni. The survivors usually were absorbed by other clans, or rarely formed new clans inheriting the tattered traditions of several clans. It has joined a tribe some 200 to 250 years ago. It may have switched tribes once or twice since. The early tribes engaged in bloody warfare among themselves or with neighbors for up to 120 years. The tribe joined a tribal confederation 150 to 120 years ago, then became part of the Principality of Sartar, also known as Kingdom of Sartar. (Unless you look at the Far Place, which has a different history.) 20 or 25 years ago (depending on which start you use - pre-Fall of Whitewall, or post-Dragonrise) the kingdom was conquered by the Lunar Empire. The invasion was the only major military intrusion into the Kingdom of Sartar during the reign of the Sartar dynasty, all other wars of the dynasty were fought outside of their territory. (Palashee's uprising, Tarkalor's Kitori war, the Nochet assassinations, the victory over Philigos, the battles of Dwarf Ford and Grizzly Mountain, and even the initial battles of the invasion. It took the thermonuclear arrival of the Bat at Runegate to carry the fight deeper into Sartar territory.) The Lunars meddled with tribal association of many clans after Starbrow's rebellion, often also in response to local uprisings provoked for just this purpose. Back to the relationship between clans and tribes. The clans joined tribes to find non-kin brothers in arms for conflicts against greater threats, and they marched side by side with these other clans' warbands in the conflicts between 1325 and 1492. Even before 1470, tribal warbands from different tribes marched side by side against others, like the Balmyr-Sambari alliance versus the Kultain-Locaem alliance in the war ended by Sartar through the founding of Wilmskirk. We don't hear about any battles between 1492 (formation of the Principality) and 1535 (Saronil leading the city warbands against the Lunars to aid Palashee). The warband of Swenstown may have seen the most action, against the Praxians, while the Jonstown and Wilmskirk confederations may have seen a few punitive actions against nonhuman or Grazer raiders if those raids were beyond clan or emergency tribal warband level (basically the mobile warbands of clans, plus whichever local fyrds could be mobilized). The clans of Volsaxar may have caused trouble for clans of the Kultain. Their Kitori masters may have misbehaved now and then. Elsewhere, the main source for trouble would have been bands of outlaws, rarely big enough to exceed a clan's military resources (which include hiring mercenaries from nearby war clans). From a clan perspective, tribal moots were more about prestige, and possibly clan influence on the wealth of the city, than of importance for the security of the clan. The tribe may have been useful as legal support in lawsuits with neighboring clans, but half of the time those clans would be members of the same tribe, and the other times they would often belong to the same city confederation. So, the prospective craftsperson from a clan goes to the city at the heart of the city confederation, or (almost as likely) to Boldhome, in order to learn specialized secrets of that craft (or trade) - including guild spells. He or she will join the household of a guild member citizen and work in their shop. After a formal end of a (pre-?) apprenticehood (which may or may not take into account previous experience from the cottage industry in the clan), the craftsperson will be introduced to the guild and some of its secrets. This status seems to be similar to the prospects in biker gangs - the individual gets to wear the guild colours and to participate in guild activities, but doesn't get (much of) a vote in guild affairs, and probably neither in city affairs except through tribal citizenship. There will be training exercises in the city militia, perhaps also detachment as deputy constables. Or the clansperson goes to join one of the urban temples (instead of tribal ones under the control of other clans). Similar story. After the first clanspeople have established themselves in the guilds or temples of that city, their households will be the focus for new arrivals from that clan, rather than the tribal manor. The household may be situated on tribally owned land rather than guild land, though, so a certain tribal influence might be felt. But kinship? Maybe comradry, when forming up gangs with the local age group on evenings. The warband kind of bond, rathet than the bond of kinship - yet another allegiance for the individual. So we get: the distant clan, and its representatives in the city. the guild or temple for the chosen trade whichever cult affiliation unless already covered by the choice of guild or temple the tribal manor the local gang/circle for free evening activities (might translate as patronage in a choice of taverns and other establishments, but might include covert or overt political or criminal activities, too). The tribal affiliation doesn't seem to rank very high here, does it?

Interesting dichotomy here. I tend to think that the guilds used to be a stronger influence inside the city than the tribal groups. Leaving aside the matter whether a Cinsina crafter from a faraway clan is foremost a guild member or foremost a tribesman, the guilds are a major contributor to the wealth generated by the city, and will expect to be awarded according respect. With tribal refugees flooding the cities, I tend to think that tribal citizenship is regarded as inferior. Even worse - these beggars are kin to maybe a fraction of city folk, and still consume the food stores of the majority who are not related in any way. Many might only be able to attend a city moot as females, no matter how bearded they are, waving about a bone needle and a dented pot after having sold their hard hat for some protection from the weather. They will probably hang on to their foot-long knife, though. Yay, the seeds of an urban Orlanthi game. So basically founding a new guild is the same difficulty as founding a new clan, like Enjossi did as per Colymar Book. Bringing a new trade or craft into a city will probably mean that you have been away (as a journeyman) in foreign parts, where you learned some new technology or magic. Ofttime that just means that you spent time in Nochet with some exotic craftsfolk, perhaps in disguise as an ignorant muscle for their shop (Tsar and Carpenter comes to mind here). Since you are going to annoy other guilds, you will need the support of some of the tribes and temples in town, and whichever other enfranchised group there may be. Good relations to some of the gangs of the city are helpful, too, especially in light of "offers you can't refuse". The only problem I have with a storyline like this (as with many heroquests) is that it caters to a single character, and not really to a group as a whole. So while this is fine in a one-on-one roleplaying game (apparently a new trend in the hobby?), involving your usual three to six player group in such a venture will steal much of the spotlight from other players.

Making these tribes more like oversized Orlanthi clans. Jonstown has less inhabitants than two Sartarite infantry militias in the Dragon Pass boardgame have fighters. While I fully expect the citizens to field their share in the city militias, and all citizens to man the walls or create a support structure behind the walls in times of assault, my point is that urban folk make up a rather small portion of the warband that is raised by the city confederation. Unlike the clans, which have cattle raids or full raids as training exercises, the urban warband members will have to participate in training days - possibly linked to holy days. Speaking of manning the walls in case of assault, I cannot think of a single city of Sartar attacked by any other force than the Lunar Army. The presence of the walls prevented the cities to become the victim of petty feuds, as no single clan and possibly neither a single tribe could muster enough force to overcome an even lightly guarded city wall. This is quite close to what the cities and castles of Edward I in Wales achieved (though with the difference that Edward did emphatically not give the Welsh tribes a vote in those cities). This is the result of centuries of identification with those cities. The oldest Sartarite city is 150 years old, or six generations. When you meet say a Red Cow clansperson, they will say that they are X of the Red Cow clan, perhaps add the Cinsina tribal moniker, but nary a mention of the Jonstown confederation. The Kingdom of Sartar might surface in times of crisis, though, as in "don't mess with us, we are way stronger than what you see here." Another factor there might be the massive cultivation of wine and olives outside of the cities, rather than grain farming or cattle and goat herding. A lot of initial effort to set these up, but then it is mainly maintenance and harvesting, leaving time for urban activities. A grain farmer's winter may be similar, but a herder has to look after his beasts year round. That's true for Orlanthi clans, where your standing depends on your household. However, the property of that household is pretty much decided by the grace of the clan chieftain and his ring, and tradition. A carl household is expected to field at least a man for the shieldwall, a thane's household is expected to field at least a mounted warrior. This may be the head of the household or the ablest of the household members. At the same time, a reasonable amount of the masculines (to use a term that includes Vingan and similar fighting women) of the household are expected show up regardless of equipment. Note that a full Orlanthi warrior may actually be the leader of a team of five, with a shield man, a sword man, a spear man and a backboy, presenting a two to three men wide front in the shield wall and nearby skirmishing and ammunitioning support. You lose your vote in Orlanthi clans if you don't come sufficiently equipped to the clan moot. But all this means is that even the most miserable stickpicker will maintain a modicum of military readiness. We mustn't forget that citizenship in Athens or Republican Rome meant that you belonged to an olgarchic elite - even with allowing the poor rowers a vote in the urban decisions, only a rather small percentage of the population was allowed to vote. Their democracies, pretty much like the farmers republics of the Germans and Iceland, were the representation of the household heads of the wealthy families that can trace their citizenship back through generations.

If you look at the first five boxes produced by Avalon Hill, there was one box with Gloranthan content - Gods of Glorantha. The Coliseum and the Vikings campaign were good, but they were not Gloranthan. The character sheet boxes... Gods of Glorantha, Gloranthan Bestiary, Genertela:Crucible of the Hero Wars and Elder Secrets were the only products before Sun County which advanced Glorantha beyond what was known from RQ2 days. Many people were unhappy with the extreme shorthand cults in Gods, which would have deserved a page count and content density as provided in the Genertela box. Separating Griffin Island from the Elder Wilds wasn't that popular, either. The glimpses of the West and the East in Genertela Box possibly was what estranged Praxian or Sartarite diehard grognards. RQ2 Troll Pak provided the material for two boxes and two scenario booklets. The RQ Renaissance was great while it lasted, yes. That was Shadows on the Borderlands rather than the original Borderlands set, though, and Strangers in Prax. Five excellent products, then nothing. Avalon Hill deserves bashing for being insensitive to the roleplaying market. I have no idea what they paid Greg and Sandy for their authoring and editing, but if that wasn't enough for Chaosium to keep Greg and Sandy employed without having to work on other projects, there is shared culpability there, too. If you look closely at certain passages of the Guide and e.g. Pavis GtA, you will find the relevant pieces from RQ2 era publications verbatim or with only slight alteration. Discoveries have led to slight but significant rephrasing of previous publications. Changes to the map outside of well traveled areas are just that. Prior to Frederic Cook's voyages, all maps showed the vast continent Terra Australis, which has shrunk to Down Under and New Zealand nowadays. Jule Verne's book about a balloon journey across Afrika had a significant mountain range on the watershed between Niger and Congo (? IIRC), which is in reality little more than a ridge of hills. In geography, there is an important rule: the map is not the terrain. In a number of ways, yes. The Guide is the first definitive collection of fact-checking with an official inprimatur. I was involved in previous attempts, with access to way less original writings on Glorantha than Jeff had at his hands. There are a number of unfortunate descriptions in parts of the older material - like the Pharoah/Pharaoh mis-spelling and misnaming of the Godking of Kethaela, or his subordinate, the President of Caladraland. Old uses of adjectives changed their meanings in context with newer texts, and became obsolete. Stuff like that. The discovery of Glorantha outside of western and central Genertela and the trail of destruction left behind by Harrek was as gradual a process as the inside story of Dara Happa, Carmania, and Jrustela. Heortling history and mythology saw a lot of discovery and re-examination of former broad strokes, too. The information in the Guide is assumed to be true. There is still room for reinterpretations of some facts. E.g. the Morokanth. As everbody and their dog keeps pointing out - stay local, absorb those universal aspects that impact upon your patch of land, and start looking outside of that initial box only when you are ready. You can play oppressive Lunar NPCs without absorbing the entrie Lunar Empire entry of the Guide. You may make some surprising discoveries once you dig a little deeper, but nobody ever claimed that the Lunars were sane. (Or the Dara Happans, either.)