MJ Sadique

The formula are form K.E projectiles (Kinetic Energy penetrators) which follow the logic of Bullet energy = Deformation energy. Ek = C * D^x * d^y where C is a constant, x+y <= 3. D : Bullet Diameter, d : penetration, with Krupp Equation (C = Ck, x+y=3; x = 1,666 & y = 1,333), DeMarre Equation (C = Cd, X+y<3; X = 1,5, y = 1,4) CF.1 Krupp and DeMarre given lower and upper estimations and the Constant can be given or guess if you use a reference. We don't have to know these because we will go from penetration to Damage (assuming a linear relation in the range of handgun ammo) so we have two value : Ek = Ck' * D^1,666 * Damage^1,333 to Ek = Cd' * D^1,5 * Damage^1,4 The reference have to be something where Ek can be linked to damage usually a lower and upper value (to me using Cthulhu v7 : .22, 1D6 (E), Damage of 6 & .45, 1D10+2 (E), Damage of 12). You can use excel function to create a linear regression with one or more reference and the you'll just have to state the Kinetic energy and Diameter to found out the max Damage by Krupp & DeMarre Equation and using your game damage as reference (Cthulhu, BRP, RuneQuest, Openquest) anyone will be able to found their own tables of weapons for LRN (2) and FMJ (3) bullets. (1) http://www.argospress.com/jbt/Volume7/7-1-1.pdf (2) LRN : Lead Round Nose (3) FMJ : Full metal jacketed, usually with a lead core

As we know, the Great Compromise made that everything that was done before the time must be done in the Time. You must follow the same path that your ancestor has done : Men marked by death must degenerate (get old) and die, Brithini that maintain their rules stay like they were "nor old, nor young" without degeneration and the gloranthan-alien-race Dragonewts return in their eggs to be reborn (like in monopoly, they never go in jail). True Giants are probably autochtonous being (auto : self-born chtonous : from earth, here son of Gaia) and must follow the same path as their ancestor and mother : to be born in the mountain, travel in the world, go sleeping sometimes in Underworld and came back in the Middle World. If True Giants are children of one goddess only without any father, they bear not the mark of Death like men do OR After death, as one can go with their god, giants could just go to their mother (a earth goddess living in the Middle world). "What happens when you're dead" first depend on who is your ancestor but like a old Digest said "What happen when you are in Underworld is another thing" : quote from : (1) Question in the Glorantha Digest by Orlanth Umathi, answer by Greg Stafford. (Published 4th Apr 2007) Q: What is it about the underworld? A: I *THINK* “it” is about the fact that the Underworld is the illogical ancestress of known Glorantha. It precedes all that can be known, and thus can not be truly known in of itself. It houses mystery, spawns mystery and is a mystery itself. It is not any one of the Otherworlds, but has aspects of them all. Many think that the Otherworlds themselves were spawned from the Underworld. So What happen in Underworld is the hellish (XD) mix of what happen in ALL myths and paths followed in Underworld before the Time... I risk to say, If the path of Lightbringers is a single spaghetti, the Underworld is the Largest Bowl of Spaghetti in Glorantha (a UZ Super-over-sized one). Some may prefer an analogy with Solara webs (2), but I found it less yummy. OR 1/ http://www.glorantha.com/docs/what-is-it-with-the-underworld/ 2/ http://www.glorantha.com/glorantha/glorantha-16-fin-2/

I perfectly understand this too because my Occidental part have also a lot of problems with the only dead/spirit can go underworld as much as Herowars' "only chaman can teleport"... Starting to understand a bit the trickster who wrote Glorantha Canons, I think the whole problem is not where all the discussion is going. First of all, We are all occidental whose brains had been installed with a problematic filter called physics / metaphysics. Like White bear vs red Moon where all magic is Physical (fireball / canon) or spiritual (chaman attacks) we all see our wolrd and Glorantha with the distinction of matter (physics) and soul (metaphysics). And this is where the problem lies for me. Greg had written lot of gloranthan myths based on mythologies that are not influenced by theses greeks / occidentals notions of matter and souls. I'll take the most simple example : In Japan myths, the yokai are spirit which can became material, sometimes living as humans and even having children and can also return in their spirit form without living a body or any matters behind them. The Very best example in "Sen to chihiro no kamikakushi (Spirited Away)" where Chihiro is send to the spirit world with her full body and soul. She did not leave her body behind, She is fully transformed in a spirit and send away in another Realm. Like Tindalos quoted : These could be interpreted in another manner : All glorantha worlds, the sevens worlds of the creation and even the "after the start of time" Upper / Middle / UnderWorld are all made of Runes, the very same runes that compose any body and soul with different types of runes but still runes, may you be a spirit being or a living being What consequences ? : Most of men have to leave their body and go with their souls through the Western Gate to Hell. BUT Heroquester like Chihiro are able to get through the gate as Living Being with their full body_and_soul and become spirited away. The runes composing them are the same but they are a spirit (body_and_soul) in the Underworld. The only big problems is they have to find a way (or find the path like Jeff said) to get through a Eastern Gate and be un-spirited_away (Spirit being body_and_soul --> Living being body_and_soul). People who lose their body, just lose a part of their runes and to be resurrected, they can : -Go the easy way to sew the body and soul back (--> body_and_soul) -Go the hard way in Underworld, Purify from death_rune_element in their body, gather and nourish their spirit (soul) to have a complete spirit (body_and_soul) and then find/bein guided to the East Gate and return form a spirit being to living being (body_and_soul). One Last thing : Most Glorantha myths are written by Greg habits not to describe or state a Truth but as a point-of-view of the truth. Prince of Sartar is the must in this way : I don't think Greg will ever give, want to tell or even know what the Truth is ! The One who stick to the canon did not always know why, nor he have the tools to. Don't blame them Darius. As a Christian, I'll give you the best Religious Advice when someone stick to a canon without being able to answer you ... don't ask them more, they just don't know. Sometimes no one know, leave it for today...

You are perfectly right. We don't need all the weapons of the world and only a few of them is clearly enough. but why do we insist so much.. ? why ? : Older players want sometimes more realist or credible effects for some weapons. They sometimes just want MORE ! and the best way is to ask some fanatics dudes (like me) to help them find the good balance to choose which weapons and how make them enough realist (not having someone surviving a Luger shot at point blank....). I One of the First Step (choice) was initiated by Atgxtg "Atgxtg said : So can we agree on desired damages for various benchmark calibers ? For example, .22LR, 9mm Parabellum, .45 ACP, .357M, .10mm, .44M, 5.56mm, 7.62 NATO, .50BMG to get the ball rolling." and I respond by making some (not so good) ranking base on Kinetic energy : Type : Light / Medium / Standard / Heavy / Super Heavy Pistol : .22 LR, .38 Super Auto, 9mm Parabellum, 10mm, .45 ACP, .50 S&W II Damage and secondary effects This is the main problem, what damage and why ? the oldest answer was to give gradually damage like D4+1 / D6+1 / D8+1 / D10+1 / 2D6 or even for D6 fans D3 / D6 / 2D6 / 3D6 / 4D6. but Basic have a ton of weapon and with a spear at 1d8+1 you clearly have to face the "Why my .380 Magnum does less damage than the enemy stupid spear ???" : -> The answer is not important, it just have to be fair, credible and impartial ! The mathematics and calculations are always impartial but the people manipulating them not ! So we fight to present our calculation, analyse and logic. For the others part of discussion : Let's compare my Hydrashock analysis versus Basic Spear damage and Lethality... -Spear (1D8+1, empaling x2 Damage) vs 9mm Hydrashock (1D8+1, Empaling x3 Damage) 9mm Hydrashock (1D8+1, Empaling x3 Damage -see I reduce them -) -1 hit with 9mm standard, 1D8+1 (E with Damage x3) : Lethal : 45%, Oneshot.kill : 15%, Deadly : 60%. (Almost double oneshot %, yeah a bit generous) -3 hits with 9mm standard, 1D8+1 (E with Damage x3) : a Lethal hit 83% / a Oneshot.kill : 39% Some people still tell me it's not realist without any analysis or arguments... So you all tell me a 9mm 20° Century weapon which have almost same Deadliness than a spear and have just 5% to overkill someone in one try or even 12% in three times is a "super weapons". Really ? Sincerely, you do want a 9mm Expanding bullet to be as the same as a SPEAR ? 1D8+1 (E : x2) ??? You'd better come with a better answer than just "I don't agree" ...

Resurrection... ah, it bring me back some good memories. I remember my first team of RQ always keep a barrel of ant's alcohol (formol) to preserve them form putrefaction. But the main problem was to heal a dead body : "Divine magic" was the only way and the cost was frightening. Our master of time always present us resurrection as ritual to sew back a soul to his body but the ritual in itself need to convince the dead soul to back in the living world instead of following his journey to his god's Elysium / Hell (and solve by spirit fight, so I loved having low POW : unlike some friend, I never failed being resurrected XD). After some years of mastering, I always view The Death Rune as the Power of Separation, separation of soul and body or separation of material (cutting). As for Resurrection, it become for me a way to just sew back a soul to its body if body is intact and soul is nearby, cooperative. Knowing what happen when you're dead may lead to find Malkion or accomplish the Lightbringers Quest. My theories : I may be presumptuous, but I always though that Malkion is the first man not only receive it but to accept Death (as Grand Father mortal) and first to seek the path from the mortal world to the Solace. Being the first to do so, he is the one who can guide a soul to his path (as Fleshman of the Lightbringers) and he is also the one who is at the end of the path to open the Door of Solace, the Elysium of gods or even Hell (as Daka Fal, Judge of Deads). I really think Daka Fal = Grand Father mortal = Malkion. Like St Peter, Keeper of the gate of Heaven, Malkion is the chosen one to built the church/school that will teach the way to salvation (easy path to solace). Harmast, the first to succeed in the lightbringer quest, bring Talor back and befriend him not only because Talor was the best choice but also because Harmast as accepted Malkioni belief and he know that Orlanthi and Malkioni could be allies like Orlanth and Malkion during the Quest to save the world. What happen when you died is (to me) a compendium of all actions made : 1- You must accept your own death (or stay as phantom, wraith, guardian spirit etc...) 2- You start to quit the mortal world to follow the path to underworld (just have to follow the queue of last week deads) 3- ??? Long way within underworld for some see sighting, a little cruse on the Styx ... etc (buy Eurmal traveller's guide for deads) 4- If you've killed an innocent, you must face his fury and found pardon (Orlanth vs Yelm) 5- At the End of the Path, you face the Judge of Dead to know were you can go 6- [Good Dead] Solace or any god Elysium [Not so good Dead] Reincarnation or stay here till you face your murderer [Bad Dead] any Hell to face your sins The First Age Theyalan's cultist change his name because having Malkion as one of the lightbringers will just cripple their new-born cult. And it's Also why so few people can do the Lightbringer's quest... who will ever thought that Malkion himself, the very first enemy in term of religious belief is one of the young gods who save Glorantha. And also that one of the main culprit of all this war of gods mess is Orlanth himself... they better hide well Malkion implication.

Read my post some line above : http://basicroleplaying.org/topic/5412-firearms-joules-and-damage-dice/?page=5#comment-81104 Autoquote : "Hits to torso are lethal in 70% of times, and 80% lethality for hits on head and neck." Yeah poor soldier who can choose their ammo, they even have to buy their bullet-proof vest (in France at least !)... but If they were PJ, they will choose H.P and Piercing FMJ as regular bullet (I do this at Kuro Tensei). HP is good vs mass of unprotected enemies (WWI German army, zombies or unprotected cultists) but currently guerrilla warfare need more piercing ammo like Pointed FMJ to go through table and walls so pointed FMJ regain "Grace". Big Mistake, -5.56mm have the same effects to wound as Hollow point... because their gravity center is low, they have tendencies to yaw/rotate, sometimes even creating fragments (doc1). These effects are means to create a FMJ bullets with Expanding wounds like Hollow Points so creating a HP 5.56mm is absolutely useless because 5.56 have already all effects of expanding bullets. (Doc 2, p7 fig 4 (HP) & fig 5 (5.56mm wounds type) ). -Moreover 5.56mm FMJ isn't against the treaty that forbade Expanding bullet but still have the same effects... isn't this lovely ? And H.P guns bullets aren't made for war because you don't do war with gun but with a rifle : the moment you start to use your gun mean you are in a DEEP SHIT !!! Unless you chain of command is stupid and always give you suicide mission (like in past WW). 1 https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Fackler_Articles/wounding_patterns_military_rifles.pdf (have not read yet it but images are explicits) 2 http://www.urgences-serveur.fr/IMG/pdf/trauma1_balistique_sfar97.pdf

SDLeary I Perfectly agree with you this times, We (US first) all use ban weapons and you have forgotten that Prohibition of Anti-Personnel Mines at The Ottawa Treaty : By using anti-tank mine which can be activate down to 55kg (~100 lbs) and I can tell you this because we have the french anti-mine division in my town. PS : I don't think the treaty to forbade the use of MAD munition (a nuclear mine). To be honest (in us_soldier_mode), who won't use a more efficient bullet to save your ass on the battlefield... just because some rulers have written a shitty stupid rules. I was only try to be more close to real lethality statistic, a x3 for Hydrashok Hollow Point should be more "realistically convenient" for you ? Thank for the noir movies ref, I wasn't thinking to them but I was making a the sundown scenarii in old west (making ol'west gun damage make me go to this forum at start XD) and I just remember the excellent Hateful 8 form Tarentino. I understand you point-of-view, I'm a teeny-tiny-bit too much generous on damage :p. Promise, I'll work on it ^^

LOL JOKE OF THE YEAR !!! ........."In General they don't "... sorry but do you think I am listening to FOX News ??? XD 10 seconds search on google : -"The United States is one of few major powers that did not agree to IV,3 of the Hague Convention of 1899, and thus is able to use this kind of ammunition in warfare" * -"Sources tell TTAG that the United States Army is switching from ball to hollow-point ammunition for its next generation handgun. ... . After making the announcement, an Army lawyer mounted the stage to mount a defense for the switch hollow-points . . . The U.S. did not agree to a ban on expanding ammo by international treaty. And the the Army’s prepared to defend the decision in the court of international law and opinion. His core argument: countries that will denounce the use of hollow-point use the hollow points for their police forces. ... The Army said it will rely on FBI data to evaluate bids for the new ammunition. .... The question is: what about rifle ammo? We’re looking into it. Watch this space." ** Which Means : We want to use expanding bullet with our tiny gun... let us do this ... (and next time we will standardize it on any weapon openly) -"In the past, specialized ammunition approval has been granted only if the requirement passes a legal review. This means that the military has had to get creative at times when it describes what it needs."*** Clearly, the guy know his job... As long as they can find a "creative" reason to use HP... they can use it ! -"Tier-1, special-mission units under U.S. Special Operations Command are authorized to use jacketed hollow-point bullets instead of standard ball. To do this, these elite units had to be classified as counterterrorism forces, a legal distinction that allows them to use the same hollow-point ammo used by all law enforcement agencies." What did I said ? : " US army still claim that they will only use them in case of urgency or pretend that their enemies are not a country but terrorist (like in Irak I & II)" SDLeary, I Thank you for this... I get my second 10 minutes of Laugh today.... thanks you very much XD * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet#United_States ** http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/07/robert-farago/breaking-u-s-army-switching-to-hollow-point-ammunition/ *** http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/07/10/us-army-is-considering-hollow-point-bullets-to-go-with-new.html

Personally, I don't eve recall any skin colouration for Malkioni apart from Waertagi but as half-merfolks, they could easily inherit the water rune influence of their ancestor and the blue skin along. The reason for waertagi are sirens and Water Rune... I don't have read (yet) Reveleated Mythologies, Middle Sea Empire and all HeroQuest books and can't tell I know eveything about Malkioni but apart from a spell, I don't see any reasons that Malkioni should have different colors skins. Some could say it's a Rune influence but anyone who get a strong rune affinity should change color... Any Wind RuneLord should have a whiter skin, Ernalda priestess should turn green and Moonies like Jar-eel should be a white skin or black depending on the moon changes. I still can't fully accept it ! The Malkioni have the three painting primarly color (Red, Yellow, Blue) for the main castes and brown (a mix of all color) for the commoners. If I follow this, commoners is not a caste but just a trash bin for the three main genocratic castes. Which could explicit why Loskalmi state that commoners could become more... Let's just say Red is Strength Rune, Yellow 's Mastery and Blue is Magic Rune. Malkion should be Full-Black, full White or even a Rainbow skinned man ... and New Hrestoli's men-of-all returned to Danmalastan within Time should change colors during their evolution from commoners to Noble (A true epidermic problem XD). So the First Age get a god killer because some noobs put Arkat in the wrong color caldron ? I truly love to know How Obelix Arkat Fell into the Magic Potion When he was a Little Boy ? Thank you a lot Patrick...my 10 min laugh of the day is checked ! XD return to main culprits of all this mess : Vadeli are chaotics scums but still stick to their castes to keep their immortality... or maybe they are just colouring themselves and use tapping to maintain their immortal body (one of the reason their destroy the Tadeni tribes). Who say, they are still immortal ? Themselves !? not the most trustful folks. Moreover, any blue vadeli will better know a "change color" spell because not being a waertagi and still having a blue skin in middle of any country will make you a perfect target : If you're a brithini out of brithos, what are you doing here ! If you're not a brithini... then you're a already-marked-for-death scum vadeli. I Hope the change colors is not some new add-on to give Glorantha a bit more exotic taste nor We will get an "It's one of the great mystery of Glorantha"... These answers will be the most boring and ridiculous....

Yep, but it's a 25' years old training ... and it's not because it's marked FBI that it's good. As you know, expanding bullets are forbidden in warfare since 1899 Hague Convention because it's a ominous weapon. The FBI reports say it's not a good ammunition but the US army still have and use them against others factions. US army still claim that the will only use them in case of urgency or pretend that their enemies are not a country but terrorist (like in Irak I & II) but Everybody know that they use Hollow Point bullets because their are effective to stop and mortally wounds people without bullet-proof vest. Yep, I may oftently be generous on damage. But I don't give high damage because they DO bigger damage, but I adjust them to have a more realist lethality percentiles : If we state a human have 12HP and get a lethal hit at 6-11pts damage, Oneshot.kill at 12&+ and is Deadly in the two case (no heal ^^). -round up %- -1 hit with 9mm standard, 1D8+1 (E with Damage x2) : Lethal : 48%, Oneshot.kill : 10%, Deadly : 58% -1 hit with 9mm standard, 1D8+1 (E with Damage x5) : Lethal : 43%, Oneshot.kill : 18%, Deadly : 60%. (Almost double oneshot %, yeah a bit generous) Even with Triple hits, the change is not much bigger : -3 hits with 9mm standard, 1D8+1 (E with Damage x2) : a Lethal hit 86% / a Oneshot.kill : 27% -3 hits with 9mm standard, 1D8+1 (E with Damage x5) : a Lethal hit 81% / a Oneshot.kill : 44% Even with a triple shot, you don't have a Oneshot kill damage everytimes, I'm agree 44% is close to half and it's a bit generous. Even with x3 special damage you can have 39% to get one oneshot on three hits. Last thing, I found they even got a greater Wounding Power ammo than Hydrashock ... FMJ bullet cost 20$ / 100b but Hydrashok was almost at 1$ per bullet (the most "pocket-money hurting" should be the .50 S&W...1,25$ per bullet = 60$ the pack of 50) : You hit, the enemy cry...you miss, you cry. XD

Like my quote mod say : Blue Vadeli are not hopefully extinct, but just more well hidden because they are from the same castes as Zzabur and this old' fellow won't let any corrupted sorcerers walk freely in Glorantha. They are as feared as Jrusteli and surely as hated and hunted by all Inquisitions. Brown vadeli absolutely can't make war or use great magic which made them "not so dangerous to acceptable" neighbours. But any sane rulers will want all Vadeli killed if a red or blue is seen; they may have some mostali skills and secrets but they became too dangerous when Red or Blue castes members are around. A Blue Vadeli may stay hidden in any Kingdom who want a powerfull sorcerer as a hidden Joker without being directly linked to chaotics cults. Somewhere in ralios Ralios of as main plotter of a salfestran Intrigue, even trying to hide as an Arkat cabale leader... I always belive Colouration are just some traditional codes for stating out your role in Malkioni society. All Wareran have fair to olive skins and if I recall well, the Vadeli may have get their skin-colored after the Zzabur Blast or Enclosure to (perhaps) hide themselves from Zzabur Magic (Immortal seems to keep long grudge XD). -Waertagi are blue skins because they are sirens' offspring (blue - water) and some are green toned skins because of their take after their fathers (earthly being). -Arkat was a Brithini warrior didn't have red skin but worst than that he was "a red hair" guy (Lot of people may have try killing this rookie just for this... but they all failed XD). -Aronalit (Seshnela immortal brithini) aren't colored, they look like normal wareran. Jrusteli have wide spread the color-code naming of their ancestor to almost all their discoveries. Remembers that Aldryami are called Brown or green elves in occidentals languages but i'ts not their true color nor true name but just a way of to describe them from a wareran perspective. Malkioni with New Hrestolism mostly won't be strict about clothes color code in daily activities but they will still have to use their traditional colors in officials meetings with others conutries & in magic rituals. I personally think Gaiseron the Mystical sometimes wear a great pure white dress in is tower and he won't be against having a red silk scarf as gift because the Invisible God is not so strict; As Doctor Strange, he certainly have some Magical Blue Cape clearly stating he is on the mystic path.

In general terms, missile and melee weapons are truly different but about speed and skill, it's almost the same principle : -Once accustomed to use a certain weapon, The global time of executing a technique is about the same for everyone. -The gain of time (that most see as speed) is due to a more efficient movement. The less useless movement/hesitation done, the more time gain. -The principle of a technique is to use peculiar sequence of movement to achieve greater effectiveness. I'm not a expert fighter myself but with identical physical abilities, a runner or formula one driver are state faster not only because of physical prowess but because they do less useless movement. Exemple : I remember a reportage about Olympics athletes who are trained to stay at their best but get better results by video-analysing their movement and correcting them; and the best part of it was a camera-man, a runner with a solid-built, who was used as guinea pig : In one day of training, he almost get 1-2s on a 200m runs; In term of distance, he could have gain almost 10 meters. you can't say he get physically better or simply faster in one day but more efficient and skilled YES ! In terms of gameplay, a better skill and technique can make you faster but our dear rules states DEX is the only. Magic in RuneQuest is the only actual way to boost your Dex to have a best DEX.SR. -Like Yelm's light said an "an extra step in the calculation" don't seem to be the best solution. SR is enough complex to add a Skill part modifier ! -RosenMcStern sharpely say that it's " it is a battlefield technique that is useful only in that specific context. " And it's Land of Ninja answer to get faster with Iaijutsu : a specific technique. Not the best best simple and efficient without extra calculations. -Styopa idea could be extrapolate as "sacrificing skill to gain" time of execution. It is the most fair way. In magic 2 Pts DEX bonus = 1 SR bonus & 1 CAR ~ 5% we could make 1SR bonus equal 10% under some conditions or 20% without them. I'm not very fond of house rules or new skills but I always fell that RQ miss techniques and maneuvers. Not like D&D/anima where you have a "spell book" for warrior but something more open and flexible. a bit like the new "using your Rune" where you only need having a Rune + some MP to boost a skill; simple and sharp !

Spell Boosting IN RQ3 (Avalon Hills & VF by Oriflam) : YES, Spell boosting is dedicated to overcome defensive magic and you can use in Spirit / divine spell casting but not in sorcery as sorcerer can freely adjust intensity. Spell boosting can be use with any spell. -Spell boosting doesn't change the spell but just add 5% more in "the table of opposing characteristic". -Spell boosting cost more time to cast (1SR / MP), with no limit of MP spend In RQ3, A Stackable spell isn't boosting; you can only stack the same divine spell at CAST, not after. You cannot stack different spirit magic at cast or after. -In divine magic : Shield 5 mean you have five different Shield spells. You can use only one (Shield 1) or stack 5 spells of Shield and to cast Shield 5. -In spirit magic : Protection 5 mean you have one spell at a level 5. You can use spell from 1 to 5 MP; it's not a stack. You cannot stack two protection 5 but if you have two Shield 5 (personnal + cristal) you can stack all ten of them to have a Shield 10 ! Stackable Spells effects are spirit + magic spells whose effects can apply at the same time (Shield effects stack with countermagic & protection effects). To clear any mistake I force my new player to write divine magic as Shield x5 (you have five spells) and spirit magic Protection (5) meaning you can protection at a condition (brakes) to use 5 MP. With this they get a better and faster understanding of rules. About Counter magic : Why I hate this spell... (Bladesharp 3 + boosting 3MP = Bladesharp 6) Counter-magic is (to me) a shitty spell because it's description is a bit tricky. Most people think to use boosting to protect a spell but it's wrong. First how it work ... -Counter-magic 5 will stop & stay active against any spell of 3 pts or lower. (2 MP lower) -Counter-magic 5 will stop & get dispell against any spell of 4,5 or 6 pts. (+/- 1MP) -Counter-magic 5 will not-stop & get dispell against any spell of 7 pts or lower. (2M upper) How it can work : Counter-magic can be dispell with anyspell of 2 MP higher... even a healing spell. If you're protected by counter-magic 5 spell and you only have heal (3) : -you can dispell a counter-magic 5 with a counter magic 4 (the two are dispell) -you can dispell a counter-magic 5 with a heal 3 and a boosting of 4MP (7MP total) (counter is dispell, heal apply normally) -you can dispell a counter-magic 5 with a counter magic 3 and a boosting of 4MP (7MP total) (CM 5 is dispell and CM 3 stay active) How it should be use (no-boosting) : If you want to protect Bladesharp spell, you must cast Countermagic afterward (which protect any object and all the spells on it). A weapon receive Bladesharp 3, Protection 4 and then Countermagic 5 (total 13MP) get attacked -A dispel_magic of 3MP will not affect countermagic 5 which will stay active -A second dispel_magic of 6MP will get stop by countermagic which will be dispell along -A third dispel_magic of 6MP will only dispell Protection and Bladesharp will stay All This cost 15MP to attacker and a total of 24 Strike ranks (with a Dex_SR of 3). A lot of thing can happen in 24 SR with a Bladesharp in hand ... Yes, but doing it won't hurt much ! In France we always said "If it's not clearly forbidden by a rule, it's authorized"...(which cause tons of problems in boardgames). I think You Can Do It ® but as in my last example (dispell_5 vs dispell_3+boost_4), using a defensive spell to over pass another defensive spell is quite inefficient. Unless you prepare to fight a sorcerer with a countermagic_5 and ended up facing a Minotaur where your protection_5 have to be boost of 2MP to not be dispell. PS : So much text for so few info....pffffff

First, please read all reference given to you before saying they disagree because they don't ! I http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf I've read your source (3) and I'll resume (for others) what one Fbi's agent personnal conclusion are about Lethal / Stopping power of a weapon : -He believe that stopping power of a bullet momentum and Hydrostatic shock are a myth / ineffective. (I strongly disagree) -He believe the temporary stretch cavity TSC cause only stopping power and no wound. (I disagree) -He believe a person being stun by a bullet depend on Psychological/Drugs factor only. Minor or Lethal wound doesn't matter. (Partially agree) -He believe that Hollow point / Expanding / dum-dum bullets are not efficient to stop someone. (I disagree) -He believe that to stop someone you better use FMJ (perforating) bullet to cause internal damage and a massive blood lost. (disagree for handgun, agree for rifle) II http://www.urgences-serveur.fr/IMG/pdf/trauma1_balistique_sfar97.pdf Second, what my source, Urgency experts in balistic trauma speak about Wounding power (they are not weapons experts but wounds treating experts) p5-10 : -Most trauma by bullets and explosions are short ranged : Speed is not a wounding factor because it's usually high. -Most trauma depend less of of the speed and more on the projectile type*, compound** and stability***. -Most Trauma Importance depend more of the what type organs receiving the impact (Dense, Humid/Dry, solid/elastic) -Greater Damage and Kinetic energy transfer are on bones (dense, solid) with complex trauma then come abdominal full organs (dense, High-moist, low-elastic) and lower damage/kinetic transfer on light organs as lung, empty stomach or bladder (High-air, low-density, elastic). -War-time analysis give 65% hits on legs and arms. Hits to torso are lethal in 70% of times, and 80% lethality for hits on head and neck. III analysing the docs and comments The two agree about (and sometimes one add extra info) deaths cause : -Early deaths are mainly caused by heavy blood lost or destruction the central nervous system (second main factor is death by infection). -Lethal wounds don't stop or cause instant death. Most people dies within first hours or 1-2 day. and Wounding factor : -Fragments of bullets (HP) are found around the stretch cavity (in the TSC) and TSC don't usually leave wound on elastic tissues (as a lung, stomach and bladder). -Recent Rifle bullets by their instability (greater length then wide, ability to rotate) and supersonic speed (> Mach2) make greater Lesions than any handgun. Conclusions : 1 - A Weapon Kinetic energy will cause different effects depending of the organs hits (main factor) and it's calibre (second one). 2 - Perforating bullets have a great Lethal power (if it bones, nervous systems or cause blood loss) and is always effective. 3 - Hollow point or fragmentation's ammo have the greatest wounding power without ability to causing instant death, it depend of lot of external factor. 4 - Stopping power of handgun is unmeasurable as momentum or Hydrostatic are overthrown by psychological factor. My Consequences : The more realist, the less "Basic" it is 1- Using Kinetic energy for Basic's damage is not realist. Damage should depend more on locations hit rolls (like in Thoan or Warhammer). 2- Round Nose / basic bullet are the most effective and simple. Treating others as special effects (like sladethesniper suggestions). 3- Wounding power (damage) of HP/dum-dum ammo is more a special effect than a basic effect BUT it cause a lot more damage. 4- Stunning effect vs Fanatic / Berserker is always a pain in reality and Basic Rules XD Examples with 9mm data from (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×19mm_Parabellum#U.S._data) : To be the almost realist, one could use Diameter/PC to evaluate damage; Penetration to evaluate Armor Negation. TSC to evaluate stunning effect / temporary-poisoning damage / Medical treatement malus. This way you could simple give a 9mm caliber : -9mm standard (roundnose) : 1D8+1 (E) -9mm FMJ (perforating) : 1D8+1 (E) & "D8+1 armor ignore" -9mm Silvertip : 1D8+1 (E) & Stunning/poisoning effect x2 -9mm HydraShok : 1D8+1 (E) & Stunning/poisoning effect x5 * bullet, pellets ** solid, breakable : FMJ / HP *** can swing, toggle or rotate like a blender's blade. (E) : for Empaling or Expanding doing x2 damage. Stunning effect could be damage to FP or Roll again CON to Knock-down a not-berserker target.

Nope man ! the problem is not with linear scale of damage. I obtain manageable, realist and simple data with linear regression (I'll share it later in xls and jpg). The problem is not in create a damage table as long as ALL BULLETS ARE FMJ. But realist ammunition aren't all armored bullet because since 1850' a lot of bullets types were made to be more lethal than the standard armored core bullet. For my damage example I didn't use Kinetic energy, it's a TSC : a volumetric indication of flesh/organ affected. With the 9mm HydraShok affect 724 cc = Double volume of a Coca Can = 11cm diameter sphere. Which mean it will completely destroy any arm or leg or a quater of your torso... Is it realist ? YES. Is it correct with 3D10+1D6 damage ? I think yes Where is my problem ? -Not with linear regression as long as you do it correctly ! -Mainly with bullets types which are rarely take in account, with the true lethality of bullet (3). (3) Translate-able with google : http://www.urgences-serveur.fr/IMG/pdf/trauma1_balistique_sfar97.pdf

5 Pistol : .22 LR, 9mm Parabellum, 10mm, .45 ACP, .50 S&W (more prowerfull than the .50 AE but outclass all others too much) 5 Rifle (1 to 5KJ) : 5.56mm, 7.62 Nato, .308 Win, 9mm SP5/6, .338 lapua Anti-Material (over 10KJ) : .50 Browning, 12.7mm, 14.5mm We should add a Pistol & Rifle the ".40-40 winchester" (ideal in Wild Wild West, same ammo for gun and rifle) which could explicit to all that a same ammo don't have the same velocity and shooting range when shoot from a pistol or a rifle (1). It's not really a simple relation but barrel length proportionnal to range should be almost fine. The Stopping power is linked to the momemtum of the bullet (mv) and the The Lethal power is linked to Kinetic energy (0.5 mv²) and the type of bullet (FMJ / HP). It may seem strange but for a same ammo, a heavier bullet keep the same Kinetic Energy but have a higher momemtum and lesser speed which give a better stopping power and a bit lesser lethal. For Stopping power you can use Major General Jullian Hatche's RSP (Relative Stopping Power) which is a good approximation (not the best). -RSP = Mass x Velocity x Surface x Bullet_Shape_factor (I'll omit the units conversions). For Lethal power, the Kinetic energy give a good idea to compare ammunition but NOT to state the Lethality. For this we'd better use the "stretch cavity volume". -TSC: temporary stretch cavity volume (ballistic gelatin) which is the volume of organs affected by the bullet !!! As it's an experimental data, you can't guess it with just mass, energy and diameter of the bullet. The real difference between a Stopping / Lethal munitions is create by the type of bullet (FMJ / HP). For example we can take the 9×19mm Parabellum ammo of 7,5g. -FMJ : Full metal Jacket is solid undeformable bullet which can pierce through 62cm of gelatin (almost 3 persons) and create a 9,1mm diameter tube and a 174cc TSC -Silvertip (HP) : Hollow point is a deformable bullet which can pierce only 20cm of gelatin but will create a 18mm diameter (double bullet diameter) and a 274cc TSC The worst 9mm para ammo could do a 724cc TSC with only 21% Kinetic energy more...with 1/20 of TSC to calculate max damage a 9mm para could be -9mm FMJ 1D8+1 (174 TSC) -9mm Silvertip 2D6+2 (274 TSC) -9mm HydraShok 3D10+1D6 (724 TSC) Guess why I abandon create my custom table of ammo... (1) In french, p12, p19 http://www.eswb-sebl.org/Balistique_Projectiles_Ecully_2010_Web.pdf (2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×19mm_Parabellum#U.S._data

RQII and RQIII are basically speaking two differents games... not the same damage, nor the same armor and not the same scale of play (RQII Chaosim is ideal for Antic-perdiod, RQIII Avalon is more a early-Medieval oriented system). A "Graze" causing 1pt damage is overkilling : 3 pts damage which render your arm useless is "a severe wound", 2 pts damage is a medium wound, 1pt damage is a light wound. With twelve light : you DIE ! With 12 grazes of 1PV, you can die (of laugh). A simple graze should/could be a 1/10 to a 1/100 of the weapon damage which give realistic effect : -A D4+2 Dagger can do 6 pts at max and a tenth make 0 damage for a graze-cut. (no wound) -a 10mm gun (v7 Cthulhu give 1D10) should at max make 10 pts damage and a 1Pt damage graze in best/worst case. (light wound) -a 120mm canon can pierce 720mm of steel. Medieval armor was 1-4 mm of steel (around 1D6 PA per mm), with 3,5 PA per mm it make 720*3,5*1/100 = 25 pts. A graze from Atgxtg 120mm canon will overkill you 2 times with a standard 12HP human (an overkill wound). A graze should be more like a punishing whip (not the battle whip with 1D4 Damage in RQIII) causing some bleeding and hurting (with 1% to 1D10% malus of pain) without any real wound which can endanger a life. In basic, the life points division cannot simulate anything lesser than a light wound (swiss knive size), You could only use fatigue point or malus percentile or malus dice (Cthulhu v7).

Maybe The Trickster is playing with my navigator but lot of posts are NOT in the good thread ! (or double post here ....I think) Atgxtg : They are different types of sequential orders. ... Styopa : Not actually. See below. In any case, I'm not sure I'd be quite so categorical.... Atgxtg : That's in your view. I disagree ... Styopa : The example on page 17 of ... Yelm's Light : Looking at it from a realist point of view,... SDLeary : It appears though as if you have omitted ... Can an admin move the 6 of them to RQ2 - Strike Rank Basics or better in the already big RQ2/RQ3 : 2 weapons & 2 attacks in the same round?

Meta-rules are usefull to state "The spirit of rules". In justice, there is The Law (rules) and the Spirit of Law when laws are flawed, the "Spirit of Law" dictate what we should do. The same apply in gaming where the GM is the judge. Two types of logic usually apply in flawed rules/laws cases : (1) Anglo-saxons which is a realist school "you find a solution and this became a new law". (2) French which is a idealist school "In a perfect world, the new law should be this, creating a new law". Realist vs Idealist (a malkionism thing some should say...). I'm more an idealist and I'll be 100% agree with styopa comment of " 'meta' rules help a DM be consistent in interpretation, and allow players some conceptual understanding of frameworks that are, after all, entirely imaginary. " It also can help you to go ahead of the rules, create and evolve without losing the "Spirit of the rules" so you can improvise a resolution without losing half hour looking in the book. 1 Multiple Magic Protections : Only the strongest apply when there is a least one common effect (like voices, 80dB + 20dB = 20db voice ignored !). -I consider magic layers only for sorcery as a sorcerer can see magic and mold/create is spell himself. He don't have any control for others type of magic, spirits and gods don't ask you for petty details. 2 French ed. said : only the first armor is ignored : But... I said If you can see an armor, you can choose to strike a flaw. -2 differents armors (magical or natural) have different flaws but wearing two plates (i've seen this), the two armor are ignored on critical. -If you wear a cape/cloth that make your armor non-visible, critical don't ignore the armor. (can't see a flaw) -If a divine spell create around you the "magical armor of your god", using a spell to see magic can help finding a flaw. Critical should not ignore the full protection but at least halved it ! (one of my favorite dirty tricks) 3 Mixing magic protection : Like for drinking, I'll say mixing is a bad idea ! I simply sort them by MP/Intensity (x2 for divine ones) and apply the case 1. -Using spirit magic on others magic will upset the spirit (like a bad tempered pikachu) n' sometimes he can choose to not act. -Divine magic is not automatic... the gods can be offended if you want to protect someone with a lesser protection. He could kick the spirit before protecting you or simply refuse. 4 Opposing magic with/without analyse : A simple detect spell like a radar (or Rahan's dagger using "detect adventure") is automatically a contest of "strongest spell win". -If you're using a "I can see magic" or "I can analyse magic" spell and you can't strictly detect nothing on someone, it's fishy... no info is a big info !!! -Simple/passive detect spells : strongest win. Analyzing/active magic spells : MP & INT/Skill bonus vs MP 5 Attack spells can be boosted with mp's; can defenses likewise be boosted with "defensive" mp ? Attacks take times, preparation and risk... -In Rune Masters : runelord use full POW instead of MP to defend themselves. Even tired at 2MP, a runelord use is full 18POW to resist a spell. -I may risk to say that you always use all your MP to resist spell (mental ones) without losing any. So you cannot boost your defense but someone else, a spirit / familiar / matrix could do it at 1:1 cost. He/it will literally over-charge your magic aura to defend you when he sense something happening (since spirit/familiar/matrix are linked to the users). But a cristal of power could not (just a bag of magic).

As usual, My bad-english lack meaning and sense ...I'm sorry for this. What I wish to said is Loskalmi/Western have people who act like Humakti & Lankhori with similar magic. In RQ3/HW sorcery, Your spells can vary (as YGMV) -Mental Domination spell may be used to force people tell the Truth and Analyse magic could be use to detect a rune (like MP evaluation or Arkat Divine Spell Detection). -Detect (a substance) is a common rq sorcery spell, but truth and death are a substance (rune) in Glorantha; Runes & sorcery interaction wasn't developed in the 80'. -If Inquisitors/Talari need some spells, unlike others cultures, they can build ones or command their construction (Like the magical Iron Gate of Meriatan). Some spells exist even if Greg didn't clearly state them but the New Design-RuneQuest will give us a better understanding of Glorantha Sorcery... and western magic culture. The integration of sociopaths in a gloranthan society is common : some abnormal Aldryami who can't be "happy" because of their past lives are usually regroup in Babeester Gor cult and given a "raison d'être", a target for their wrath. Even Mostali can use defect Nilmerg and made the Gremlin. Uz have their own bloody berserker. To me, Loskalmi usually act more like elders races than regulars humans : When it's war, they always take a very long time thinking, preparing their actions and they choose to move after having a 200% chance of winning. They go all out with the best of their peoples, with greatest magic and seems unstoppable. In the Ideal Loskalm in Danmalastan time, sociopaths and abnormal' ones can be given a place. Like Darius Said : who are the best to discover others sociopaths/eurmali trying to mess up the kingdom ? Who can counter others country cabal and conspiracy ? who is better than a Loskalmi "femme fatale" to stop a siren/uleria prietess from seducing a prince or the king ?. The perfect harmony of Loskalm can give anyone, the best place to use their abilities. And as Redemption is part of Malkion/Hrestol teaching, Loskalmi would always give them a second chance (with a watcher of the Gaiseron on their back). The Ideal Loskalm is like a better Danmalastan. If someone goes too far, like Vadel, they will be sentenced to death or be banned to preserve Loskalm Peace. Ideal not Perfect nor stupid ! What still interest me is what will happen to all sociopaths in place of power and influence after the end of the Utopia Era of Loskalm ? When the Grandiose Magic of Harmony, which act like a straitjacket to these people simply vanish at the end of the ban.... Will they side with the numerous-young or with the few-elite ? Will their greed protect Loskalm from the outside or try to sell it to the best ones ? As a French, I think a "femme fatale" or a "éminence grise" will try to use the war to seize the more power they can but they will still protect simple-minded-idealist Loskalm ! (In the Kingdom of blinds, One-eyes are kings) Pride is a terrible sin which can make you act like the best man even if you're rotten ! (made me think about "The Legend of the Sun Knight" novel)

It's more a presumption, it's a fact ! for all malkioni, G.T.G confirm that "Failure to obey caste laws interfere with the spells blessing and defending the community". If you don't follow your caste rules, if you cheated or if you kill ... you get yourself in some problems with the community magic even with the greatest hidden crime. Basically -RuneQuestly- speaking : When you kill and cheat, you slowly taint yourself with death (rune) and discord (rune); Humakti and Lhankori can sense murderers and Liars ... so can some inquisitors/detectives in Loskalm with their spells (their are more discreet in loskalm). Spells to detect lies and abnomal amount of discord and death runes are basic "rune detection" spells (or will be soon...). Suspicions can arise and a lot of method/spells to hunt down vadeli can still be use to detect such peoples. The more they are, the easier they will be detectable. They could be undetected only if such sociopaths follow all the rules of their castes. To prove their culpability is another thing... spells are clues not facts but as sorcery is a "science"... a sorcery spell can be use as a proof (The Experts - Glorantha XD). Leaving no evidence is a myth, detectives missing clues/knowledge create the perfect crime ! High-rankers (10% best people) : Such people cannot cheat someone who found the Glorius Joy because Mystical people like saints, arhats and bodhistava can sense if you've awaken to the True Joy, if you're faking kindness, hiding your feeling or even rejecting the True Joy. Sociopaths can disguise themselves but not their soul and their heart (if you can't fell anything, you cannot create love or the Glorious Joy to ). Don't also forget that high-rank Loskalmi gain benefit from all loskami (Magic energy, knowledge and Joy are channeled from churchs through palaces to boost up the princes and King -HW- ). In this way, the King of Loskalm benefit from all kingdom awareness and informations to the point being seen as a half-god to strangers. Three Last thing : (1) King, Queen, princes and others high levels candidate have all to pass the ultimate Loskalm test : Breakfast invitation with High-Watcher Gaiseron the Mystical-Saint-Pope-Arhat & Zzabur-Dr_Strange-level-Wizard & Loskalm-"éminence grise"-King-Elector !!!. (2) And I don't speak about facing the Blue Fur Magical Guardian of Loskalm educated by Snodal; being a women won't help you facing an Immortal Uroxi. He can smell corrupted ones... (3) Some seems to mistake what a Ideal Loskalm in Great Harmony is ! Ideal is not perfect, meaning everything can evolve, progress and change (perfection is like brithini a standstill immovable neverchanging kingdom). Plus, harmony don't mean everything is fine but If a problem arise, a solution and adaptation is possible and will be create. Even Sociopath can found their place and their meaning (in Inquisition for example XD).

1/ As far as I know, Greg always said RuneQuest/Loskalm is nowhere near Pendragon/Arthurian Britain. As french, I always like the magical-knights of Loskalm : "men-of-all" don't mean anything in french (untranslatable) so I always present them as Sorcerer-RuneLord or sometimes lvl 15 peasant-mage-warrior. I think Loskalm may be more like the Ideal Magical Island of Avalon than the Ideal Arthurian Kingdom. 2/ In New Hrestolism, Women have the same status as men (G.T.G). I think women can assume the caste of their husband and may replace them if they want (like St Elleish). But a women can choose to follow their own path and create their own destiny by following Loskalm ideal and even becoming a Lord, a "Princess of Loskalm"; OR like roddy said choose to not accept Loskalm ideal and live as they wanted (be titled as witches), seizing powers and magic for themselves. Such women may be treated as non-malkioni or strangers and won't need to follow the restrictions and won't benefits the usual castes protections. 1/ As a culture-of-logic, the marriage follow some laws/rules depending of the castes. Breaking the rules always come with risks and interfere with spells of protections and blessings. Divorce may be permitted if one doesn't follow the established rules or if marriage interfere with the main New Hrestolism objective : attaining the True Glorious Joy. 2/ For people who don't buy it or can't accept this philosophy (a bit like Arkat in his times) : -Try to find the less worst place for you (a re-education like in Demolition man -love this film-). -Try to convince you to change your mind. (a tiny bit of coercision) -They (copy-paste) be treated as non-malkioni or strangers and won't need to follow the restrictions and won't benefits the usual castes protections. (exclusion) -Let you go away from the ideal kingdom like in the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" : They give you everything to find your place in the world but will still hope for your return.

My spider-sense of machoman is tingling me... .... hé man, you've got a problem with women ? Got a bad divorce ? Cool down a bit ! I'll go along JonL openmindism : In Gloranthan Malkioni castes system, women can't change castes like men and aren't specialy different than men. I never thought brithini were peculiar machist because they are men-of-logic : Women aren't better for physical labour or protecting (Dronali or Haroli) but in most cases they have the same rights and duties. -In Brithini families, Malkion create so much rules that prostitution and raped are not even know (it's a corrupted vadeli/chaos creation). Union are short-term pacts to creat new brithini. There is no need for forced mariage, it's not logic. -In Rokari nobles families, they may be forced to marry a choosen husband but speaking about prostituting or rape mean chaos intrusion (to me) and fall of a civilisation (or rise for lunar). I see Rokari more lie tradition type people : If it's not a tradition, it's not a good thing. -In Loskalm Hrestoli family, the elitism principle make forced mariage ineffective because the better the man, the better the place he'll have and the better the wive he'll meet (better in term of affinities and abilities). New Hrestolism reward man and women who seek/attain pure JOY. Moreover Loskalm is not a tudor-era-world ! In Loskalm Utopian return-in-time, a woman and man get along depending on harmony and affinities they have. Brithini may choose their partner to breed a better generation New Hrestolism of Loskalm, men-of-all and the church seek JOY not a social position. The Ideal church don't see maried women as evil, in "Book of Glorius Joy" only witch (independant sorceress) were stated as evil because they seek power alone and didn't choose to seek JOY. In aparte : In Gloranthan general speaking, Women who choose men for social postion and protection are well knowed : Ernalda's followers. Their godess choose a new husband for protection and to flee from celestial court (some say she know something bad was there -ie she guess chaos incoming-). Ernalda was a tactian and she manipulate the young Orlanth better than any women could manipulate a man. Which doesn't mean she didn't have any feeling for this young wind god. And remember anything a Theyalan god is doing is evil in Loskalm (bad false god worlath ! bad false godess Rnalda) PS add : Darius aren't you a lunar trickster who want to corrupt Loskalm with Jrusteli/moonies teaching ??? If you are........ Great JOB XD

"During the Ban, Loskalm had no war" : During the utopian period of the ban didn't Loskalm fought Dilis Chaotic Monsters at door or did the Returned in time banned Chaos from approching Loskalm ? Or did the demon in Dilis swamp aren't really chaotic ? "Loskalm is not particularly warlike towards its neighbors nor does it lay claim to their territory" : Sure, Loskalm is split in two and the tiny territory (spare for Dilis swamp) in the way is Sogue and Akem, not a peculiar strong place. I even remember some little country who were bored to be regulary annexed by it's neighbours (May be Junora ?) and wishes to be invade by /under the wing off Loskalm. And perhaps gain some benefits of from Loskalm Hamony/Utopian.