metcalph

For the broadest generalisation, they are Agi ("The Maslo culture is made up of a variety of Agimori peoples living along the coasts of Elamle and Onlaks" Guide p600). They originally are made out of "red earth, brown sand, gray earth, and black mud" Guide p683 so they have a variety of skin tones, including blues, vithelans and other people (who would have come later). The Teleono who live to their north and may be related are seem to be similar Guid p523.

Depends on what his runespell is. If it's divination block then Illusion.

There's Fonrit which is as chaotic as the Lunar Empire (Ompalam, Gark, Ikadz, Seseine etc)

Applying what people say should be happening to Starfield makes me shake my head

There are human worshippers for instance the Battling Brothers of Yngortu.

Ompalam's persistence in Fonrit is not because of some human hierarchy but because he embodies philosophical truths that have been proven true again and again in Fonrit. He is the God they have rather than the God they would like. The mythical Vadeli didn't create him as a tool to oppress their slaves - they discovered him and ordered their lives accordingly. Yes, Ompalam is chaotic. But he is also God.

You can even add Humakt and Zorak Zoran. Fonrit's a big place and they have just as any gods as the Orlanthi.

They worship a mixture of gods. Ompalam is their equivalent of the Invisible God. Most Fonritans worship Gods such as Teonarpas (spelling?) the Sun and Baraku the Storm. That many of their gods are chaotic is something that's only come to light since the Vadeli came - before that it was a big secret known only to the rulers (who kept quiet) IMO. Now that the secret's out, many are disgusted and cynical about the Gods. But they have no choice but because the rulers will punish them if they refuse.

On the topic of cantrips, my opinion is spirit magics exist and are used for that purpose. Rune Quest Sorcery is not intended to be a valid alternative to other magics in all circumstances but an act of mini-creation like solving a partial differential equation or composing a legal argument. It's intentionally slow, cumbersome and potent.

I don't know and am waiting on Jeff for further hints. My understanding is they don't provide rune magic. That's easy. The warrior orders are secret Hsunchen cults. What the nobles do is still unclear.

To summarize my own thinking. Based on what I've seen on the Sorcery rules, if you are a Malkioni fighter then you'll make use of spirit and rune magics for combat. The sorcerer only works in combat if there are fighters providing protection until the Big Spell can be cast. The Men-of-all are split into two groups: the First Brothers who are fighters and the Wizards. I do not believe the First Brothers are magical purists: they will have big sorcery spells cast before battle (not as powerful as a wizard's but still powerful) but also make use of spirit and rune magics during battle.

My current thinking (given what Greg was writing about the Abiding Book's silence on the subject of Joy) is that the Temple was dedicated to Makan as a sign of God Learner superiority and that any Hrestoli who wanted to study at the Temple had to publicly accept the God Learner creed thereby limiting their power. This was because the temple was too well-known to be closed so they tried to control it instead. The original text IIRC is from the Middle Sea Empire where it's a description of how wonderful Seshnela is.

It says preserves rather than follows. In light of the other references, I'd say this meant there is a Hrestoli school there but which is not followed by the rulers (although they may have followed it in the past). The Castle Coast school is only described as "less rigid in its caste restrictions" rather than actively having people incorporating all castes as a spiritual goal. The description of its founding does suggest Hrestolism was an active part but in light of its current impoverished state and the mention of Jrusteli ways, I think the school has fallen out of favour and the Hrestoli there simply don't have the resources for anything other than a monastery.

A Loskalmi. Except they are not described as Hrestoli. The Guide p405 describes them as following Jrusteli ways (but not God-Learnerism) while p415 describes them as following Makan with heavy Hrestoli influences. I don't think a warrior-wizard is by definition a men-of-all as that would include Lhankoring Sword Sages. Rather I think warrior wizards/arcane lords/etc are most common in Loskalm where they are known as Men-of-all.

Except the Castle Coast has sorcerer warriors (guide p405) rather than men-of-all and Mularik is described as a Warrior Wizard (guide p413). None are reported in Pithdaros etc and so I think men-of-all exist in Loskalm being an obsolete spiritual discipline elsewhere.

Why is using spirit magic unvirtuous and how would you solve the problem of sorcery being unsuited as magic for the average glorantha? And the problem with that is? Do you think it impossible or contrary to the source material or what? Sufficient penalties are already given in the RuneQuest rules. But I fail to see why you should be making rapid fire demands of how this would all work when you singularly fail to come up with any concrete details of your own. I'm really waiting for Jeff to describe what such cults look like within Malkioni lands. Again what is this equation of sorcery with virtue?

I disagree. The Loskalmi can be described as is without needless hegelian dialectics about what Jeff wrote five years ago or even what the Loskalmi were like in the Dawn Age let alone pointless digressions about the "Dawn Age True Hrestol Way" or how sorcery was described in the Hero Wars RPG. Simply adding that detail just bores people senseless. I'm only interested in what their current practice is. What terms are you talking about? Irensavelist? I made a whole post which didn't use that term and now I'm supposed to have defined it in a way that offends your theories? Or did you just edit the meaningful link out again just to waste time? Never said it was and my post did not imply such a description. Please stick to your own description rather than taking potshots at mine. There are men-of-all in places other than Fronela? References please. You define men-of-all as initiates? That's not what the Guide says which has the Men-of-All being selected from the Guardians. Where is your reference for saying the Guardians do not experience Joy? Moreover I see all this in in response to a question of mine about there being a man-of-all who doesn't worship Irensavel. For some reason you waste time by refusing to provide a yes/no answer, you won't provide references and you waste my time with tedious waffle.

Sir Godspeed was the person who used the term and I was responding to him. I doubt he meant helots because they weren't free.

The Loskalmi are hardly the type of society that has slaves and dependent freedmen supporting the guardians. The Loskalmi have been described as having professional warriors (ie supported by the state). It isn't a society run by landowners but a society run by a philosophical school (like say the pythagoreans) of wizards and first brothers. It's arguable how far Loskalm views the idea of personal property but I do think they would reject the idea of land ownership by people and have farmers being tenants on property owned by the state.

Then what historical model are you using?

I'm still not seeing the plausibility of part-time citizen soldiers. Except that the sword thanes are full-time professionals who make up the well-equipped and well-trained part of the Fyrd. And the Loskalm is supposed to have a civilised army superior to a mere Orlanthi Fyrd! I don't see Loskalm as having cadres of guardian cadets. If they are trained from an early age, wouldn't that conflict with the idea of citizen-soldiery?

The moment you start flinging around ugly jargon such as Irensavelist and Zzaburist, I lose interest. Don't waste time on deep philosophy or what other glorantha think - it's needless irrelevance. There you go again! Dawn Age True Hrestol Way! Was there a True Hrestol Way in the Imperial Age? No? Then Dawn Age isn't really needed. But why specify the True Hrestol Way who were just one of many Hrestoli groups at the time? Where is this from? I'm discussing Loskalm as is and have little interest in debating some hoary text that you don't have the decency to give a reference to. Well, you throw around the term Irensavelists and leave it undefined so I really don't know who you are referring to here. Why not just say Loskalmi? So much more readable. Is there a Man-of-All who doesn't worship Irensavel? The use of Tai Chi is likewise obscure but I do believe I said Henosis first, other sorcery later, so I really don't know what you mean by newly consecrated. A guardian? A wizard? A first brother? No wait, I have a better idea. Rather than go through another person's writings with dense paragraphs why not outline HOW YOU FEEL THE HRESTOLI WOULD WORK IN THE RUNEQUEST RULES. That way we can get a better sense of your thinking rather than having to wade through cryptic terminology. The RuneQuest Sorcery rules make that highly unlikely. It's far easier for men to know Heal 6 or Heal Wound (mechanisms for knowing yet to be determined) then it is to posit an army where a caster of Mend Flesh is on hand (I doubt it would be more common than one in a hundred in which case the Loskalmi army is pretty much screwed when it fights foreigners). Why? Their sorcery is for the closer understanding of the Hidden Mover. Flashy spells on their equipment seems rather vulgar. Also Rune Magics. Runic affinities are used for Rune Lords and I see no reason to re-invent the wheel. There you go again with the Tai Chi reference. I really don't know what you mean by costly here and my objection about literacy was that effective sorcery requires it. Regardless of whether you like it, making hardened warriors be skilled scribes at the same time sounds rather implausible. What are you referring to here? I do believe I said Henosis would be a requirement for learning other sorcery. There's nothing to prevent them learning other types of magic and I repeat my belief that most Loskalmi combat magic is not sorcery but spirit and rune magics. Reacquaint yourself with the literacy limits on sorcery (a sorcery skill can be no higher than read/write). Given the levels of literacy you are prepared to accept here, you condemn the Loskalmi into being pretty crap sorcerers. That's why I felt they had an alternate means of instruction.

Citizen-soldiers just strikes me as a tad implausible in a Bronze Age society. In the platonic original, the Guardians were full-time (and in the probable Spartan origin, they could afford to be full-time because the helots were providing for them). Hence 2% guardians and a similar number on reserve sounds right to me.

Given the old division between wizards and knights in the early Malkioni material (ie Cults of Teror early), I don't think the Loskalmi trust their people to know sorcery until they have attained henosis (ie INT+POW+ ritual bonus on d100 as per RQ:G p384). The technique they probably learn is dispel (ie remove worldly distractions) although it could be truth. They wouldn't cast sorcery in combat (most sorcery spells have to be big to be effective and there's no way a starting guardian is capable of that) preferring spirit magic and possibly their own rune affinities. The sorcery spells they have would be rituals like medispection (examining your own conduct for error). Once they have proven themselves to be worthy then they are permitted to learn other types of sorcery. There's a tension in the Loskalmi description between the neo-spartan ideal and the otherwise normal country. I think the guardians are meant to be professional troops which argues against the Loskalmi boy-scouts approach. The literacy requirement for sorcery doesn't fit either approach and so I suspect the Loskalmi have an alternate means of instruction that helps to control access to sorcery.

It's the one with a warm making you drink slow-acting poison on the pretense of understanding old wyrmish. For performing his task, you get the antidote.