scott-martin

Love it. Strange fragment that seems to support this narrative: The third deity which stirred to make a mountain was Chalana Arroy, who we know now as a Goddess of Harmony. She sat upon a slope of the Spike, and reached out her right hand and invoked the power of Innocence. As a result of her desire, her mountain was inverted, and made instead a deep hole whose volume, say philosophers, exactly equalled the volume raised by the mountains that were made before. Later on this huge pit was filled by water and became known as the Pool of Serenity. In this model the Pool might well be one of the eastern seas. Everything depends on which direction the goddess was facing and whether she spent any time as Harantara.

Love it. Yeah, there's a component of simulacrum or "anywhere out of this world" to the MOLAD experience. And yeah, what has me wound up is the deep textual evidence that for centuries the original cold war symbolic conflict wasn't Sartar / Peloria or Red Moon / Sheng or even EWF / God Learner but Holy Country / Red Moon. These were the magico-cultural superpowers and one of them implodes first, leaving the emergent Sartar current behind as the next front.

This is a great meditation for all surviving MOLAD enthusiasts and even OOO loyalists to pursue. Lately I lean toward saying that every Country was Holy if you go back far enough . . . but the peoples around the Choralinthor remembered that dream a little better when they woke up. Their Holiness remained closer to the surface at the Dawn and survived within Time. Call it historical accident or magico-political agenda, luck or fate. Maybe OOO represented a somewhat different organic confederation of nations, a different "country." (There's always another country.) Maybe some of these countries were "holy" at various times and had something like a sacred and holy king or queen. Maybe they'll receive one in the future. I have my hopes for Esrolia, Caladra, the esoteric kingdom of Malkonwal and probably other local houses of the Holy. The Heortlandish tried and it was a disaster. Why here? This is where he washed up and so it was the expression of his teaching. His authority extended exactly so far and no farther. Esrolia was Holy to the extent to which it was within that mythic radius . . . but otherwise, the profane system of grandmothers bickering over nomes was also always going on day by day underneath the Belintar symbolic overlay. He made it worth their while. Ditto the other sixths, each according to their elemental ecology. Stand in the place where you are. (Now face west.)

A doubloon to the person or heroquest team who gets this into the Jonstown Compendium. Essential to a Lunar Hero Wars.

1589 leads the thaw of Riverjoin so it's not hard to imagine a busy baby. One day soon we might find out what kind of talent White Moon had and what remains. MGF suggests there must be a rebel faction left alive beyond 1625, otherwise there'd be no real joy in setting up the story hook and then barring the players from ever participating.

This is my favorite euphemism. I imagine the sky opening and the air turning into water, fire turning into crystal that shatters at a kiss or a glance. Lights in the deep. Colors pulsing on and off the rainbow like strings on a fussy harp, planets dancing like some juggler's act. Smog. Madness. Glamour. All those cosmic pivot SFX as the lunar visions clash. At the end I'm not sure what happens with the White Moonies but it probably isn't fun for many. "Fierce, terrible and glorious." The last miracle of the Eel family as the corn grows as high as a dragon's eye. Shadow of Lunar Hero Wars to come. A shadow of "luck and death" fluttering like a bat's wing if you keep your eyes open. They probably argued theology a little now and then too.

It is good when the nieces win. In the great chain of being I suspect you defeat me, they defeat you, my cat defeats them. The Archaic Source in question is quoted here . . . the "wandering tribes" may not be the zaranistangi but clearly share a mighty close lineage. The problem for sages is of course that there are no exoteric historical records of this happening yet, which means that the timeline extends into a Western Hero Wars period or is a dim projection from a Storm Age cultural origin myth. Either outcome can be exciting. Maybe the blue people built Erenplose instead and that's where they retreated for the final revelation. They have their own flood-negating magic there so the Sword would be extra . . . and portable. I really like all the blue people in the region you are drawing together here. They're often lumped in with "Helerites" but it's strange if this turned out to be the only part of the world where a separate Heler nation survived. Given the god's nature I'd think he'd be everywhere moist, in which case "Heler" may be an exonym perpetuated by people who knew Heler but not Artmal until it was too late to clear up the confusion..

This thread is living up to its potential! I need a place to hide the legacy of the artmalite diaspora that ends up in Ralios in archaic texts. Safelster is theoretically interesting but already a little crowded and far from tidal / blue moon resonances. Slontos, on the other hand, has the advantage of geological upheaval wiping out a lot of records while preserving others for Hero Wars excavation. In this scenario they probably have the Red Sword in there.

Kaxterplose is where the surviving Western Artmalites / zaranistangi retreated.

Tagging this because you've given me that most dreadful gift, worse than any dumb theory: a long-range project. Watch the skies! Glorantha revels in fratricide and at least historically not so much la belle dame sans merci, which is I think where a lot of the ambivalence around the Red Goddess happens and where we might see interesting developments on the horizon. The horrifying thing for most prominent (male) Gloranthan figures isn't to be accused of sexual misconduct as to be actively seduced, enthralled or "converted." Less Phaedra, more Circe . . . and even then, it rarely seems so bad. But a lot of Ariadne. And not a little Medea.

Freudian slip with all the talk about the Hollow being associated with the Hard Earth / Skyfall culture. Maybe a fertile one though!!

This is a great line. Reminds me of the people who knew how to work with Stone when Stone was alive . . . or of the Stonepipe Hollow culture. Top concept of the season!

As @Sir_Godspeed notes, consider Issaries. The haggler's mindset lends itself to seeing the world not so much in terms of "right" and "wrong" but in terms of relative "opportunity" and "challenge." Every system can be made more efficient working from the inputs (inventory to sell, supply chain, identifiable demand) to discover optimal pricing and make the trade happen. And then you move on to the next trade, carrying the transactional profit with you. Profit is portable. It's what you extract from the status quo that wasn't there before. The difference between it and the Tap is that you're theoretically adding value to the system, making it better than it was when you found it. Creating wealth. Introducing a lonely donkey to a mare and letting nature extend your carriage train. And then there's the spell trading network, which bends cult restrictions as long as you can find customers more greedy for exotic magic than they're afraid of taboo. The network is the future.

I think the Autarchy in its "stygian" aspect is still a great place to start. By the time it was over, there were a lot of troll forces baked into that framework. OOO and his Shadowlands seem to have transferred their role as HQ environment to the God Learner Empire while that lasted. Waertag- and other triolini-oriented cultures have largely been pushed into the historical background and are probably especially controversial in the doom of the Quinpolic League but the archaeology is there for those who look. The triolini have full Elder status for a reason not really appreciated right now. That will change.

Pikat Yaraboom Yolanela keeps trying.

These are great questions. I suspect that part of the process of what makes divine heritage "literal, non-metaphorical" is establishing that you were always already there in some form in the pre-time. This might mean questing back and recognizing yourself in the mythic landscape, then bringing back evidence. It might also mean having this done on your behalf. Those who disbelieve will simply discount the claim as metaphorical, as when people bicker over who Arkat's real father was. Ylream Serpent King was born in time to a bona fide goddess and IMG Damol really is the storm god's child. There are others. EDIT also people who become gods within time often leave dynasties behind, i.e., the line of Sartar, a man who became a god.

IMG there are a lot of deep earth mysteries at play throughout but it isn't up to me to strip Draupadi bare of her entire sari as it were. Other people can do that more constructively. Lodril's grudge is a good loose thread to pull on as well. And I love the bit about making important friends. Never know when you're going to wash up somewhere and have to start from scratch.

It has come to my attention that buried within the modern Pamalt complex is an entity known simply as "Arbennissaries," "Cronisper the Youth" or "south talking god." This conceals a deeper secret of Genertela that need not concern us yet.

Blue hype!

Definitely. But I suspect modern zzaburists avoid the subject, opting instead to focus on training young horalites to conform to the abstract traits large-scale sorcery can handle efficiently. Tales of caste confusion and caste discord (and non-standard castes) are probably the preserve of radical hrestolists. Hearing these stories can drive well trained horalites into confusion, rage, despair and otherwise render them useless and even dangerous to the sorcerous elite. I love them. What modern "strict observance" horalites (and dronars) probably get is a combination of received education from the sorcerers and caste-specific lore from caste elders. People are unlikely to get much sense from the former channel of the internal states required to "perform" or interact with the caste founders individual-to-individual. The intercessors are afraid of independent horal so keep it simple and sanitized. In their view, the working castes are just jobs for people to do, without any form of spiritual consolation. But that's depressing to play so IMG caste elders tell the trainees and apprentices something slightly different when the intercessor has gone on to the next village. This is where the abstract caste code can become more personalized and elements of potentially useful identification seep back in. This was a person. He was your ancestor. Learn from the way he did it and apply those lessons to your life. Under the right conditions this becomes something like an ascended master figure and your relationship gives you a sense of self the zzaburists don't really understand or know how to deal with. This is how Arkat happened. It used to happen all the time back on the island but they don't like to talk about that. And then there are women. I imagine this is much of what they then lump in with the larger category of demonology. If the dead are unreachable, who or what does ancestor worship or ascended master veneration contact? Clearly nothing they care to contemplate.

IMG very few people (if any) cultivate direct contacts with Horal these days. Some smart people say he's dead. I suspect "Horal Stories" (unlike "Dromal Stories" and the sagas of the children of Talar) are not commonly transmitted even in oral channels so his exploits aren't really conducive to magic. His history is not taught. Most everyday horalites don't fret about it and simply consider the caste founder as a kind of abstract exemplar. Their anecdotes and jokes are full of references to other figures. But there's a real opportunity here for people who want to read between the lines.

I uh walked right into that one. Yeah, all helerings have a "pastoral" orientation.

The helerings are the best. I had no idea you followed rugby. Or that you had a pastoral orientation!

These occasions are a great opportunity for the community to humiliate nominal members who would otherwise be susceptible to the allure of the enemy so many of these "insider antagonists" function something like ritual scapegoats . . . picked by the priest and set up to fail. When people actively volunteer, the motive is often sacrificial. They know they're probably going to lose, they want to lose and they'll try to lose. (We say "take it for the team." Not sure if nimm es für das Team has the same connotation of accepting an unpleasant burden for the greater good.) Someone who volunteers often tends to acquire dangerous experience of what it's like to be the enemy. This person becomes strange by community standards. Strange people become susceptible to the allure of strange cults. Do it too often, you end up either becoming the scapegoat or worse, winning the challenge and your (former) community loses the rite. In these scenarios, the enemy god can find ways to reward you. You get strong. Maybe that's your real goal. I would not "cast" real chaos or evil from inside the village because you have to go back to work with that person tomorrow morning and there are too many chances for something to go horribly wrong. Make an effigy or use an animal in a costume. Dip a trollkin in something stinky. They're expendable and unlikely to take the pantomime too far. You just need a warm body. I think volunteer antagonists recognize the dangers and don't enjoy participating often. You shouldn't do it every year. It's better to bring in at least a few relatively friendly outsiders now and then to give you a break and let you get back to the real work of worshipping your actual god once in awhile. You might not get anything out of it but the comfort that your performance made the difference between holding the rite and not holding it at all. Smart priests only let extremely well trusted people do this and will then keep close watch on you to make sure you aren't getting too attached to the role. Maybe you get a special private worship session before or after (probably after) to (a) renew your runes and heal you (b) welcome you back to the community. There might be bonuses on your next promotion roll if you give them a good show while signaling everyone that you don't actually believe the awful things you're saying. But often, priests are more desperate than smart and mistakes happen. I think in many areas a kind of professional itinerant scapegoat exists . . . local tricksters, Donandar without too much of a stretch. In these relationships you get paid and they should remind the local talent to go easy on you, or at least provide free healing. Last thought, playing the antagonist might be an essential step on the road to being able to train local protagonists. You might be a junior priest or the equivalent learning how to manage the rite from all sides. Some communities probably institutionalize this and the No. 2 at the shrine will get dragged into the bad guy role when no real enemies present themselves.

Well, it's a strange aeon. And these are gorgeous! I'll consult the Weirdbooks and I think I have that Dark Fantasy. Will edit in results.