Darius West

Thanks mate.

Righteous Anger killed a whole valley of defenseless healers. Sounds like estrogen driven homicidal mania to me. Did they steal her timtams?

Personally in the Boardgame I like to use the wasp riders as high speed long distance envoys to Cragspider, Tusk Riders or the Grazelands. On occasion I have been able to recruit Sir Ethilrist using these guys. They are a low strength high speed disposable envoy unit par excellence.

In my Glorantha Praxians have a system of Bride Price, paid in animals on the hoof. Marriages are negotiated between the different tribes and more rarely between the clans of a single tribe. The neutrality of the Sacred Place and its fertility links serve as the perfect place for marriage broking. Next, there is a fast growing leafy plant that is soft and downy on one side. This plant is called "Old Friend" and is widely used as toilet paper across Genertela. This plant should not be confused with the similar looking but slightly purple veined plant which is surprisingly hot, and is known as "Eurmal's Cabbage".

Ostrich Riders derive from remnants of the old Rinliddi Bird Rider Empire. Heroes magazine Vol 2 No. 1 had a whole write-up on the Ostrich Riders on page 4. Elsewhere the only alternative name I have found for the Yelmalio of the Ostrich People is "Khim" in a fanzine, but memory of what and where eludes me for the moment. (I recently tidied my files and now I can't find a damn thing; thanks Murphy's Law)

IMO I think Yelmalio needs some idea of its regional variations and a recognition of the fact that these cults become at least subtly different over time. Tharkantus=/= Balazaar=/= Elmal. The Ostrich Rider version of Yelmalio (Khim?) doesn't have hoplites and nor does the more general Praxian version where it exists. Elmal receives Cats Eye from Yinkin, but Yelmalio claims he is the source of this magic despite not being a cat. There are anomalies that need to be addressed. IMO I just can't see how Elmal can be at the Hill of Gold. It just doesn't work. Yelmalio is not Orlanth's loyal thane, he's a competitor. Now Monrogh does this whole wandering quest and recited the List of Visionaries to bring Yelmalio into existence, but face facts, what was that all in aid of if Elmal, Tharkantus, Balazaar and Khim etc. are all the same as Yelmalio anyhow? Those powers already exist in the world and in a manner appropriate to the areas they are in. What is the point of Monrogh's "unification" under one name other than Monrogh making a grab for power in Sun Valley? And seriously, why should any of the variant people adopt what Monrogh said, except under threat? To get non-reusable Sunspear from Yelm, when you could have spirit magic Fireblade from Elmal? You know which would get more use. At very least, a future Yelmalio cult write-up needs to acknowledge and explain why Yelmalio has been known by so many names in so many places over time and what Monrogh was actually doing and why it even matters.

To those who say Elmal's fire powers aren't useful, I say that isn't the point. Orlanthi need to have a tame fire deity, just as Yelm cultures will have their version of a tame storm deity who provides rain. Elmal is a deity of horses, and of guarding, and is the Orlanthi's primary troll killer. Salamanders of any size are very useful, and spirit spells like Fireblade and Firearrow alone would make the cult worth joining, let alone when you include a gift/geas.

That is why the syncretic movement of Monrogh is Godlearnerism. Gloranthan mythology is about regions. If you leave the region, the stories of the gods change subtly. Different secrets apply in different areas because the territory and the myths change. Perhaps not in a huge way, but in small ways that are noticeable to the newcomer. This is a bit like how Zeus was a storm god in some places and a werewolf in others in Ancient Greece and the Balkans, but less pronounced. When in Orlanthi lands, the god Yelm is obscured by the storm clouds and not worshipped because he is an enemy, and often a dead enemy, but the small sun is known as Elmal and is the Loyal Thane, and still has his fire powers and he zips through the hills at dawn and dusk. In lands where Yelm is more dominant, the small sun is not seen as providing heat, and the myths reflect that. The crucial thing is (first and most importantly) the territory, which affects the culture, which in turn produces the myths imo. The fact is, there is no way to reconcile Elmal with Yelmalio. They are not the same deity. Their myths are too different. Elmal is not at the Hill of Gold, or Orlanth would recognize him, and Elmal, being loyal, wouldn't fight Orlanth. Thus Elmal doesn't bleed out his fire powers while Yelmalio does. I suspect this was likely played out by Monrogh himself losing at the Hill of Gold HQ at some point, because before Monrogh, there was no Yelmalio, and Monrogh only died in 1582. As I have written elsewhere, Yelmalio only came into existence within the living memory of some old Sartarites. It was controversial when Greg introduced Elmal, and it remains contentious, but ignore the contention; Elmal is great for MGF. The tension between the backwoods Elmal worshippers and the interloper Yelmalios of Far Point trying to shut down and absorb their cult prior to the Hero Wars adds an extra level of interest to the regional conflict for games set in Far Point.

Fireball? Fireblade perhaps... I've never heard any reference to a fireball spell anywhere in RQ anything.

It is a longstanding problem with Yelmalios that they refuse to do business in silver coins, favoring the handling of all their transactions in gold wheels. As one of the more reliable ways of detecting a Thanatar presence in the area is the presence of tarnished silver, the Thanatari also prefer to do their business in gold wheels, using the pretense of membership in Yelmalio as a cover for this behavior. This was brought to light by the infamous "Black Broo of Dyskund" incident. Many Yelmalios also slip away after dark to engage in "secret night drilling", at undisclosed locations, further adding to the level of suspicion. It is rumored that Harvar ironfist is especially known to participate in this clandestine activity and rumor has it that it may even be the source of his battle sobriquet. By comparison, Elmali are not known for these behaviors and the same accusation is not levelled at them. I hope that clears this up for you John.

So... if this is the case, who was Harvar Ironfist persecuting after he finished persecuting the Orlanthi? Everyone knows it was holdout Elmal worshippers who wouldn't convert to Yelmalio. There is definitely Elmal vs. Yelmalio in the lore and retconing it and pretending it isn't there is not making Glorantha better imo. It is details like this in the lore that add depth and texture to Glorantha, and they need to be preserved not erased.

If Elmal is like Yelmalio, but with his fire powers intact because they didn't bleed out on the Hill of Gold, then Yelmalio is inferior to Elmal in most situations. Plus Elmali don't have weird cult hang ups about cross dressing, and sleeping under red blankets, so there's that... Also Elmali don't get accused of being Thanatari due to odd coinage restrictions.

Is Six Ages considered Canon?

Pardon my skepticism at this interpretation. The Hill of Gold is not Orlanth's Stead.

Elmal has no Hill of Gold Myth. Orlanth should have recognized his own loyal thane, and Elmal wouldn't have fought against Orlanth to whom he had sworn fealty. Yelmalio is clearly a different deity. We also know this to be true because Yelmalio was only invented recently by Monrogh. Some old people in 1625 will remember a world before Yelmalio even existed.

I suspect that you can retro-engineer any Western Genre RPG into a US Civil War RPG without much effort btw.

The single series of Firefly is recommended viewing.

In most games this sort of behavior is called an "exploit", which is performed by "power gamers", and yes, they specifically exploit the rules to turn their children into superheroes. In Glorantha they were called the God Learners, and they are likely going to make a philosophical resurgence during the Hero Wars given that their secrets are now known again.

Elmal is Orlanth's Loyal Thane. Elmal never fought Orlanth on the Hill of Gold and as such he never lost his Fire Powers. Yelmalio by comparison is an invented cult put forwards by the hero and Yelmalio spirit of retribution known as Monrogh quite recently in Gloranthan History that syncretizes elements of worship of the "little sun" from around central Genertela. The Lunars saw political advantage in using the Yelmalio cult to undermine the cordial relations between Elmali and Orlanthi ("divide et impera" and all that). Frankly Monrogh's syncretism smacks of Godlearnerism. These are similar but notably different deities of the little sun who have different myths and different names. They should have similar magic, but they are fundamentally not the same deity. This is not Call of C'thulhu "Masks of Yelmalio", even if there is some indication that one of the masks of Yelmalio might in fact be Thanatar. For example, the So-called Yelmalios of New Pavis actually worship Tharkantus, the Ostrich folk worship the little sun as (only source) Khim the Rider, while the Balazarings call the little sun Balazar after their ancestor King. Really only the Sun Valley worship "Yelmalio" as the little sun, and later Harvar Ironfist becomes the fanatical Yelmalio oppressor of Far Point, but he converted at Sun Valley imsmc. It is very likely that after the Hero Wars, there will be a large backlash against the Yelmalio cult for their treachery, and a resurgence of support for Elmal the Loyal Thane.

You might consider trying to use RQG's shamanic combat rules and ideas of the Spirit Realm in place of the Astral Plane perhaps? It doesn't hurt to understand the history and intellectual pedigree of what the Astral Plane is really all about either.

I understand your position, but I personally think that the world Before Time went through changes that the Solar Tempora world is never likely to. Also, frankly, Hero Questing should be the realm of Rune level characters at the very least, not initiates imo. I LIKE the idea that people are scared away from Hero Questing. Biturian Varosh in Cults of Prax, for example, is deathly afraid of anything to do with HQing, to the point he'd willingly trade away truestone to avoid a hero quest, despite being a penny pinching merchant. I think Biturian's is the proper attitude, and the one which should prevail based on the lore. If HQing was easy, everyone would do it, and I don't think there is anything to support the "everyone HQs all the time" attitude. HQs should pose a serious threat to an experienced character imo, and outright kill initiates 90% of the time if they attempt them as they are just not ritually powerful enough.

I think that there is a danger of making what qualifies as Heroquesting too mundane. I mean, if we follow the advice of the HQ rules we can invent "Orlanth goes to buy milk" myth, and send our children off on it every couple of days. There also needs to be a separation between HQing and what happens at Sacred Time in every village in Glorantha. Those are passion plays. A passion play with lethal consequences can be a HQ, but the most powerful and least ambivalent HQs are those that take place on the Hero Plane.

I think I need to question this Jeff. Many of the Thunder Brothers are named, and have their own subcults/hero cults and rune powers. They include: Hedkoranth, Helamakt, Elmal, Mastakos, Vinga, Finovan, Rigsdal, Destor, Vanganth, Vingkot, Yavor, Tatouth, Siwend, Starkval, and probably others too. These are named entities. I agree that they are like Maruts, but they are also cults in their own rights, and it is likely that every Orlanthi clan can name at least one Thunder Brother as an ancestor, and know the secrets of their cult. The Summon Large Elemental thing is a product of the WBRM board game, but there is more to these figures now. They are listed in multiple publications.

I can't see why people would prefer a plane to a ship of some description. Remember that Lindberg only flew the Atlantic back in 1927, and flight is still very dangerous.

Be honest now, do you work for Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro, Mr. THC or are you just high?