Darius West

Actually the matter was queried with the local Lawspeaker, who reviewed the matter and remonstrated with the local CA priestess, and it was found that the CA initiate Clarinda the Gentle was delinquent with her tithes, and with under-reporting her income by not declaring her adventure earnings for the last 3 years. Further investigation revealed that Clarinda had previously claimed donations to the temple that she had subsequently spent on her own training. As a result she was cast from the temple, and settled with the Poss clan of Lismelder who were looking to start another feud with their Colymar neighbors. Naturally they gave the delinquent Clarinda perpetual bedpan duty for being an ex-Colymar. Clarinda then started trying to resuscitate her reputation.

Strangely enough, we can actually refer to plenty of old records about harvests. I know what you mean though. The rules at present can cope with 1 crop per year AFAICT. And if we are going to allow the Lunars to bring in 3-4 crops a year of maize, will we also give them the nutritional problems associated with a maize diet's poverty in trace minerals? I am well aware of the whole Glorantha bison =/=Earth bison, Glorantha bronze =/= Earth bronze, but I don't like it. If it isn't a bison, why call it a bison? If it isn't maize, why call it maize? Given that we live in the age of the internet, when we can perform a "summon factual info" using a phone in a matter of seconds, why not use real world examples? All a GM has to say is "well that is how it is today, so let's tweak the stats down to accommodate the lack of X that they didn'thave/know at that tech level."

Orlanthi are a dueling culture. Insults are settled on a field of honor. Of course there is another way... If you are sent a donkey with a moon rune on its head as an insult, you rise to the challenge and send them back a mule (larger infertile donkey) with a truth rune on its behind and an illusion rune on its head.

Hmm... While this explains why most Malkioni have all lost their Brithini caste immortality, this information raises rather more questions that it answers I fear. Are we being told that the Talars worship St. Worlath, the Horali worship St. Humkt, and the Dronari worship St. Barnt and St. Nalda? Where does this mentioned Spirit and Rune magic come from? The Invisible God certainly doesn't provide it, so who does?

It is not so much that these cults teach sorcery, but rather that they don't care if members learn it. I personally have the Arroin subcult involved in sorcery using a grimoire called "The Xemelic Remedies"(Accelerate Healing, Mend Flesh), as they don't have access to Divine Magic, and have a more skill based approach to healing. Issaries may not have restrictions against sorcery but they also don't have a cult grimoire. I suspect that the term Meldek is generally used to describe Malkioni, who posed a threat to Orlanthi in the Second Age, and who have invaded the Heortlands, and thus pose an ongoing threat to the Orlanthi way of life. I suspect the term isn't used much in cities but is more of a xenophobic parochial term. Clearly what LM members do isn't meldekery because we know and trust them. As I have written elsewhere, I suspect that something a bit odd is going on... To open a new rune requires a successful ritual and the expenditure of a point of POW. This is akin to a self-initiation into the "worship" of a rune, much as when one forms a link to one's deity at initiation. The difference being that the link to a god is a lot more active, with the deity having expectations of the worshipper, and the worshipper potentially getting a lot more power channeled from their deity. The Sorcery Runes as deities have no egos, and aren't sentient; they expect nothing of their worshippers, but allow themselves to channel power that create certain magical effects when combined with other sorcery runes. Are these principles existing within the mind of only the Invisible God? Does Invisible Orlanth know them too? What about other deities? The correct question might be "does it matter?", as the sorcerer forms an intellectual connection to the runic principle, and the rest might be a bit of incidental mythologizing to explain to themselves what they did when they don't entirely know. Not only can sorcery be taught, it can also be learned from first principles by a detailed reading and experimentation with just a Grimoire. Anyone who knows sorcery can teach it. The only issue is that (RQG p384) that you only get INT-12 runes you may learn. Thus if you have an INT of 15 you will only have access to 3 Runes, and they may not be the same as those of a potential grimoire or teacher. This represents a hard limit on one's sorcery. On the up-side however, it is possible to make new spells (RQG p390), so if your grimoire doesn't seem very full, you can potentially research new magic, but beware that each new spell you keep in your head reduces your Free INT (another limit on sorcery, but less hard, as you can unmemorize spells to free up your Free INT).

In RQG the world is made of runes not atoms. Spirits have spirit runes in their make-up. Undead have undead runes in their make-up. It is these runes that Detect Spirit and Detect Undead can find. (Don't ask me how Detect Enemies works, I can only guess, but if anyone else has an answer, consider making a separate forum topic about it.) As to what constitutes undeath? Well, in Glorantha it seems to be about making dead bodies move around, and also have no POW. (It may be that what POW they do have has been turned into CON but that is only a guess.) This is true for skeletons, zombies, ghouls, vampires, and revenants. Spirits can possess a living person, but that doesn't make them undead. In fact within the Humakt temples of Glorantha, there will be many spirits of the Einherjar, who are dead Humakti returned in Ghost form to protect holy sites or serve as allied spirits for the cult. I hope that helps.

That is the very thing that the monopoly of violence exists to prevent by stripping local elites of the power to hand down summary justice, and instead placing that power in the hands of national institutions, under various forms of policy and oversight to avoid systemic abuses.

Amen LOL. Of course not everyone always has the financial liquidity to migrate, and not everyone has the survival skill to travel unequipped and un-provisioned. I tend to let CAs off easy, as if you can forage for healing herbs you should know a food plant when you see it imo. A great comment and a great example soltkass. I hadn't thought of the 3 laws being used this way, and I like the way you think. So how about this situation... A Chalana Arroy initiate sees a Gagarth worshipper getting ready to flee a crime by using telekinesis, and as this is the 'big bad', and nobody else can act, the CA lets rip with a 3pt divine Dispel Magic. The Gagarthi acted first, and is now 30 feet in the air, and they fall awkwardly (fumbled jump) and broke their pelvis due to the weight of the loot they were carrying, and died. The Chalana Arroy didn't anticipate the height the Gagarthi would get, or their fumble. Should the Chalana Arroy be excommunicated? This is a real example that happened in a game I saw back in the 1980s, and the GM had the healer chucked from the cult. I was only spectating and had no "dog in the ring", but found it an interesting 'test case'. Obviously anyone else who wants to chime in, the more the merrier. We have no clarification on this point. I would suggest a CA can self-harm without penalty, but the oath says "harm no living thing" and the CA is unequivocally a living thing. This just isn't covered anywhere, and I think it needs to be. Now you raise the issue, as a GM, I have seen a fair bit of hatred and jealousy towards Chalana Arroys from other players, (quite apart from when I played Malicia). Initially they love having someone with Heal 6 around to patch their limbs up, but that wanes over time, and the CA begins to look like a massive financial drain and a one trick pony who 'wet blankets' everything with their oath constraints or by declaring some enemy "under healer's protection". Their tendency to monopolize magic crystals has been a particular sticking point for some parties, but this is understandable imo. There are a lot of treasures that have no value to a CA, but they can always use more magic crystals, but then, everybody else needs them too. It is watching these incidents that actually gave me the idea for Malicia in the first place, especially when CAs try to charge the party for healing after the adventure, and after all the loot has been divided up. I just thought "Wow, there is so much potential for a deeply corrupt and sleazy Chalana Arroy there".

The citizen resolves to give up their recourse to violence to the state, and the state in turn promises to render justice in the case of wrongdoing. Thus the state has the monopoly of violence. The monopoly of violence is the foundation of the Rule of Law. When the state cannot maintain the monopoly of violence, you get anarchy, like Somalia. When the monopoly of violence is well established, and there is broad consensus that it is well administered, you get countries like Norway. If you want a status quo of misery, Somalian anarchy is the example of misery, not Norway.

What about if your CA high priestess is a bitch who is out to get you ? Agreed. But what about deliberate self harm, such as needing to remove your own foot because it is trapped? I am personally against any restriction to do with self harm, and would go further than that even. Can a CA be cast from the cult for causing a lethal accident such as malpractice? What about killing a fly (which are servants of Malia)? I would argue that these things are lamentable within CA, but should require atonement rather than ejection.

It is less about leaving harbor (though that is certainly when the ritual is performed) and more about heading a given distance from the shore when the curse effect begins. Open Seas exists because of 'The Closing of the Seas', which was a spell cast by Zzabur that causes all blue water sailing vessels to come under continuous attack from sea monsters and natural disasters. While the exact nature of Open Seas isn't known, it appears to be a 'hack' that allows the bypassing of The Closing via comparatively low level magic ritual. Of course, with so many ships being destroyed and the art of seafaring essentially lost for hundreds of years, people had stopped experimenting until Dormal came along and figured it out. This ultimately caused the Boat Planet to reappear in the Sky.

No. Actual libraries. The Roman Catholic Church maintained its own separate legal system in Europe for centuries in every kingdom. As a result they have libraries full of trial records, jurisprudence, and so-forth that are a rich source of primary source material for interested parties. Many of the cases brought directly related to members of the clergy, whether monk or priest, who broke their vows, and recorded the reasoning that went into the deliberation on their cases.

I am trying to demonstrate that there is good reason to have the practical meaning of an oath spelled out, as it is something humans have historically and legally spent a long time doing, even in the bronze age. Obviously you will do as you please Bill.

The wording is "don't harm a living thing and aid all within the limits of one's ability". Now, this ruling doesn't apply to spirits, does it? Of course not. A Chalana Arroy cannot heal a damaged mind, unless it is damaged by a disease. Clearly Chalana Arroy is about healing bodies, not minds. You see children always complain that they don't like the taste of their medicine, or that their stitches itch, but ultimately they are hurting themselves by not obeying the wise healer, and must be stopped for their own good. Arguably being the slave of a healer is the best possible outcome, as the healer will always find ways to insure you are healthy and productive and you will be bound to follow them in the noblest of all possible endeavors; the healing of the world. How are you "harmed" by being bound into the most noble purpose of the kindly goddess of healing? Surely "aid all within the limit of one's ability" therefore must include he social and emotional shackling of individuals to a cause that they in their willful ignorance would not otherwise willingly follow due to their evil and waywardly childish natures? If Malicia has the ability to help the cause of Chalana Arroy by trapping people in debt slavery so they are bound to help world peace through their perpetual economic contribution, how is that a bad thing? This is the best way she has yet come up with and represents the limit of her ability to aid the whole world. After all, freedom is a very esoteric concept, and most people who have freedom use it very badly. They think only of their own advantage, and they often go around hurting people (like those troublesome guards that protect priestess Malicia. Phew, isn't it good that they mainly obey her, and for the most part they only beat seven colors of shit though people who owe her money and don't pay, but she scolds them bitterly for such behavior, often docking their pay (actually she doesn't pay them, because they owe her too), and she always heals the injured party herself. Of course good people will make further donations to the cult at this point. You wouldn't want to offend the healers after all...) So too money is such a materialistic concept that leads to terrible behavior as people pursue it for such ignoble and self-serving ends. Before Time, people had no such pretentions, and were happy to have food, drink, medicine, shelter, clothing, and a profession. Service to Chalana Arroy through her servant Malicia is a spiritual calling, which allows one to divest oneself of such silly notions as freedom and wealth, in order to live a simple life in noble service that will make the world a better place. It should also be pointed out that individual initiate healers don't lose their rights to private property (well, unless they are working in Malicia's temple at Horn Gate, in which case Malicia will find a 'legitimate' way to turn them into her cash cows). Any resemblance to the Cult of Gark the Calm are purely coincidental! 😈

The process was more involved than you might suspect. My GM wasn't lenient, and would repeatedly set ethical traps for Malicia; generally 2 per adventure where I could potentially get thrown out of the cult if I was less-than-circumspect about my choices. A couple of times I actually had to let NPCs out of their debts because of the oath, and because I couldn't quickly think of a work-around that would keep them debt trapped. There is nothing that says that a Chalana Arroy can't use blackmail, cronyism, loan sharking, bribery, drug dependence (this one is tricky), underhanded negotiation tactics, fraud, and other dirty tricks to make money and win political influence. Malicia always negotiated with a view to creating a peaceful outcome, but one where she inevitably gathered more power and money. Chalana Arroy is not a truth rune cult after all, and not every peace is a good peace.

Yeah, you wouldn't think superficially that pregnancy and sex could lead to harming a living thing, and obviously much depends on one's definition of 'harm', but the fact is, despite being acts of Life, they can and do involve harming a living thing. There are damn god reasons why babies cry when being born, and mothers too, and fathers. Ouch! Of course it does explain why many Chalana Arroys spend their lives cloistered in their hospital temples and seldom set foot outside them. Really? This sounds suspiciously like immaculate conception, and I don't recall a rune-spell for that. I think Xiola Umbar has Couvade, but that isn't available to CA. Birthing is a difficult, painful blood-soaked business that goes on for hours and involves a lot of screaming in agony. I would be saving those RP for heal body spells in case you hemorrhage, and use herbal pain killers. Chalana Arroy doesn't have spells that specify stopping the pain of pregnancy, only that they will try to make sure you don't die. As to Chalana Arroys and BDSM, certainly the harm no living creature requirement would preclude them, but a Chalana Arroy with such predilections could feasibly "do a Princess Peach" and keep getting captured by Bowser <insert antagonist here>.😈 I think it would be a better idea to spend a couple of paragraphs in the cult write-up to clarify what is okay and what isn't, and that this forum is an ideal place to thrash out the problems so that we don't end up with a perverse outcome that bears little resemblance to what the cult should be like. I think that a Chalana Arroy has requirements to: The purpose of the oath is to stop the evils of war and the harm it brings to all sentient creatures. To this end... 1. Never use weapons or magic to cause injury or death to any living creature. 2. Pursue peaceful resolution to conflict where possible. 3. Seek an apolitical and neutral stance so you may facilitate peaceful outcomes more easily. 4. Don't deliberately kill any living thing except plants. Learn Foodsong if you have the opportunity. 5. Hurting yourself doesn't break the oath as it relates to your behavior towards other creatures, not your behavior towards yourself. 6. Using cutting implements and poisonous ingredients as tools of healing doe not break the oath, as they are invariably removing internal chaos from the patient's body. 7. Animal products that involve the death of an animal are undesirable, and alternatives should be sought where such is a reasonable proposition. 8. Laying mechanical traps is not allowed. 9. Your patient is a sacred trust. If you place someone under your protection, you may defend them with your magic and even interpose your body between them and any harm, but you must not harm the attacker. 10. You are not obliged to heal people who have offended against you, but such pettiness demeans the calling of a healer. 11. While the undead fall outside the technical parameters of the oath, you are not trained for combat, so fighting them is an undesirable outcome. 12. Cure Chaos Wound now specifically removes broo impregnation. (RQG p325) 13. Spirits fall outside the protection of your oath unless they have living bodies.

This is a good question Soccercalle. My take on it is this (YGWV)... When you are growing up in Glorantha, as a kid, you are likely to be taken for education by various religious figures from your clan. You will be told the stories of the various gods your clan favors and has representatives of, so that you will come to an understanding of which one you feel closest to and whose abilities and way of life you most want to emulate. At the end of your childhood you are sent for your initiation into adulthood, and thereafter, your family will likely pay for you to join a cult as an initiate. This of course attracts a 10% tithe to your cult if you want to regain your RP. As a child you are effectively a lay member of every cult, but as you grow up, many of those lay memberships lapse. The simple fact is that no-one is a member of all cults, as then they could never have any wealth on which to live. Join ten cults and suddenly you owe 100% of your income. Consider that you already owe duties to your clan so that they can meet their requirements to the Tribe, and if you are in occupied Sartar you may well owe tribute to the Lunars and bribes and kick-backs too. As to being a bad citizen if you don't belong to the City cult, well, the answer is to become a lay member, not an initiate. This likely goes for most of the other deities in one's pantheon too. It is possible and even likely that a clan chief will even pre-pay everyone's lay membership dues if they want a particular cult to grow in their clan, as this in turn will encourage more children to potentially initiate into the cult in coming years. Guild membership is more nuanced I think. Most guilds will likely have a patron deity, but much will depend on how secret their secret techniques are. For example, a guild of ropemakers might follow Waha, or an Ernalda subcult, etc but the magic of neither deity is deeply concerned with the crafting of rope, so the issue is likely more one of lip service. Now then consider Smithing and the Cult of Gustbran, and suddenly the secrets get deep and important, and membership becomes very important as it gives you access to becoming a really great smith as opposed to a talented dabbler. I hope this helps.

Bill, that is simply incorrect. Companies issue policy statements, as do governments, about what constitutes the expected standard of conduct for their representatives are. The clergy have literal libraries full of what constitutes breaches of priestly and monastic codes and the legal reasoning as to why. Ditto for medics and the police. Notions of legal requirements for group membership go back to written documents from Egypt around 25th century BC, and the supporting legal reasoning goes back to at least the 22nd Century BC and likely before. These things have been an incredibly important part of religious life in the bronze age and before, so why shouldn't they be a part of Glorantha? Laziness. That's why. Chalana Arroy requires its members to swear an oath that is, frankly, crippling, if you take it literally. I have enjoyed playing a crime lord (lady) Chalana Arroy who worked hard twisting the requirements of those rules, and so I know the arguments pretty well now, as my evil Chalana Arroy High Priestess Malicia of Horn Gate abused the interpretation of them well past breaking point, turning strict adherence to the oath into a political weapon that she used to get rivals ejected, censured, demoted, disciplined, fined, and even sent on involuntary hero quests (the death sentence). There is no cult which needs a clarification as to its membership requirements as much as Chalana Arroy, as its open ended oath is almost impossible to follow in its present form. Having utterly abused the system, I am arguing for reform as I am overly aware of its appalling weaknesses. Dodgy Orlanthi poetry is not where the truth of these things lie at all, and is a gross cultural mis-characterization of the problem. The fact is that the Orlanthi do have a written tradition, and practicing Law Speakers in the form of the Lhankor Mhys, who cover issues of legality, whatever they may be. Cults themselves will also have a body of cult lore that will detail what their deity considers permissible and what is not acceptable. How do we know this? Well, if a deity is annoyed, they will either send spirits of retribution at you, or they may even cast you from the cult, nullifying your connection to the deity, and costing you all your Rune Points. It is perfectly reasonable for characters within the game world to have a somewhat exaggerated knowledge of how not to annoy their deity, as for initiates this should be a pretty major concern. Now some deities will be pretty laid back about personal conduct, and will allow characters a lot of moral leeway provided they take the 'hard red lines thou shalt not cross' very seriously. Orlanth for example doesn't care about adultery, theft, grievous bodily harm, abduction, hate crimes, etc, as the deity did all those things, but draws a big line against chaos worship, secret murder, kinslaying, rape, and a few other things. Now while Chalana Arroy's "Harm no living thing" sounds like a comparatively small requirement, the more you think about it, the more onerous and impossible it becomes, if taken literally.

If you want perverse outcomes it is just great.

Agreed. The Uther period is one when the Saxon invasion is in swing. Britain is in the throes of de-romanization. It is a time of slaving, warlordism, and random murder for profit akin to the Anarchy of Stephen or the Viking Invasions. The 'Groans of the Britains' were the result of the Roman Empire having to downgrade its holdings due to invasions and epidemics. Was Uther's rule worse than the Normans? Well, quite possibly, as William the Bastard had a super-prosperous Saxon kingdom to plunder, said to be the richest land in Europe, while Uther is just the biggest of a group of petty regional warlords trying to keep the Romano-British people alive through a terrible period. First show me a culture with writing that hasn't romanticized non-egalitarian social structures. This is the historical norm, not the exception, and with good reason within history (being the study of documents). The fact is, the existence of social order depends on a monopoly of violence, without which there is only pitiful rates of health care, trade, education, industry, etc. During a period when the social order is shaky at best, there being no separation between the state and military, and the monopoly of violence is not well established, propaganda legitimizing any central authority is a necessity for the survival of any social order on which to build. That is certainly one way of viewing the Arthurian Myths in their original pre-Malory context. Without the power of myth, there was no reason to hold any king in esteem, or for armed men to cultivate any love of civilizing values, and thus the social order collapses into murderous anarchy again and again. It is also worth pointing out that it was Sir William Marshal aka Guillame de Marechal, 1st Earl of Pembroke, an extraordinary knight and pretty genuine historical paragon of chivalry who is the primary driving force for the British Monarchy's long term adoption of the Magna Carta thanks to his regency of Henry III, and which made modern democratic states possible by enforcing representative government and limiting the power of the crown, unlike what happened in continental Europe, where absolutist monarchy became increasingly out of control. Sir Bill deserves everyone's respect, and his own trilly imo.

I have a copy of the preview edition of Gods of Glorantha, and Nysalor gets a 7 page write-up. It is much like the Cults of Terror write-up. Notably, spells like Mind-Blast and Madness add to Illumination totals, as does Rays of Piercing Truth. They also get a special reconcile opposites ability than removes the requirement for opposed runes like Life and Death to need to add up to 100%. I am obviously being brief here.

I have read the turn-over can be as low as 4 weeks from planting btw. I took an average from a series of different agricultural estimates for the 8-10 weeks, which is on the long side, thus factoring out all the modern growing methods. The primary driving factors are fertile soil, plenty of sunlight, and mild rainfall. The Chichimec/Nahuatl cultures of Lake Mexico would plant every kernel with a fish head as a nitrogen fixative (not that they knew it in those terms). Maize is a summer crop, but can be planted in other seasons too, just with a slower growing time. If my original post misses this detail it is because I was trying to spare you my 'working out'.

I completely disagree. The fact is that a poorly worded oath that has no clarification as to what it means in practice can turn a pacifistic healer deity into a sadistic legalist and perversely austere mystic. This is repeated over and over again IRL religions, where the message is lost and becomes a legalistic creed. If you WANT a Chalana Arroy who isn't these negative things, then we NEED clear statements about what she can and cannot do, so we don't wind up with the perverse examples I have offered becoming the measure of the cult, because they are all perfectly reasonable interpretations of the "harm no living thing" oath that they swear. This is one way that sects develop irl btw. That's fine, but you'll be apostate inside a day. No, I don't want to play Chalana Arroy this way, that is the point. If we don't have some proper idea of how the "harm no living thing" oath works in practice, it can be misinterpreted to absurd extremes. That was the point I was making. I mean, consider the history of the Hippocratic Oath; it's pretty checkered, and completely irrelevant today, as 'first do no harm' has been replaced by 'first get insurance' etc. in practice.

Frankly, I think any future write-up of Chalana Arroy needs to clarify what their oath actually requires of them, as it is far from clear. I mean, arguably, a Chalana Arroy cannot use make-up as it might harm their skin, thus harming a living creature; themselves. They may also not stay up past their bed-time for the same reason. They may also not get pregnant as it poses an unacceptable risk to themselves and the infant, and both will be harmed to some degree in the process of giving birth. Arguably they may not have sex, in case someone experiences chafing. Going on adventures is right out, and completely irresponsible. On the other hand, they can take up arms against the undead, but will be thrown out of the cult if the undead hurts them. If they stub their toe, they are apostate according to the letter of their oath. Obviously I am playing devil's advocate here, but I am doing so to highlight the problem of why the Chalana Arroy oath needs clarification. I mean, we know that Yelmalio Sun Lords can't dress up in women's clothing (though they can hang around in bars), they can's sleep under a red blanket etc. It would be really great if there was a clear set of guidelines in the cult write-up that clarified what they can and cannot do to some degree, and some notion of why they can or cannot do those things according to the interpretation of the oath.

Hon-Eel's High Holy Day is Clay Day, Fertility Week, Earth Season. Every clay day is holy, and the clay day of every Fertility week is a minor holy day. IRL maize ripens on an 8-10 week turnover, and prefers to grow in Summer. That means maize in Glorantha, if it followed the same rules would produce 3 crops, Sea Season Fire Season, and Earth Season before the weather turned. On the other hand, IDK if Gloranthan maize behaves like Earth maize.