jeffjerwin

Here's a useful fragment from Cults of Prax: It clearly is the related to the Marriage Oath; maybe it's the ritual response to it from the officiant priest. "Then Argrath began his part. While the others were busy, he already had cast Cloudcall, and at his command the thunder rumbled and the lightning flashed outside. A wind rose from the south, a lucky wind, and Argrath called upon Orlanth to watch and protect the marriage. He invoked the ancient poem: Stand together always, two are better than one. Life is short, time is long. Life flees before us. Take what you hold, make use of it. This makes you better than gods. The Ernalda Initiate invoked her fertility chant, but instead of one voice we heard two. Then the Initiate finished her chant, and the other voice continued with other verses to make it into a spell. At last I found the source, but did not recognize the woman."

The Garhound Contest adventure would make an excellent structure for a LARP.

Maybe he's the king of the new tribe, the Olontongi. They are just north of Whitewall. They didn't exist before the mid-1620s, and include the remnants of the Kultain and the Sylangi, who were partially destroyed by the Lunars... Thus a king 'out of nothing' for a tribe 'out of nothing'...

There's a passage here in the article about marriage among the Orlanthi-Ernaldani: (http://glorantha.tumblr.com/post/96691133493/can-you-tell-us-about-how-people-love-one-another) "The love between Orlanth and Ernalda is an important part of the Orlanthi myth cycle. Though Orlanth is the Sky and Ernalda is the Earth, they are inseparable, as are man and woman. They have destroyed those who would keep them apart, even the Bright Emperor Yelm, who became the first god to die at Orlanth’s hands. Every clan remembers in its history the role they played at the wedding of Orlanth and Ernalda, when the Marriage Oath was created." The Marriage Oath is a key part of changing the dynamic of their marriage and I think finding it will provide the Ernaldan perspective. It is mentioned in the Clan Questionnaire for HeroQuest as well: "The two of them created the Marriage Oath and thereby established a great harmony in the world through this sacred bonding." The language of the Marriage Oath is unfortunately missing. I think restoring its phrasing for our stories would be helpful.

I've searched and searched and I can't find more detailed information. In the Sartar Companion and King of Sartar it states that Runegate fell on a Full Moon day (Wild Day). Wilmskirk was besieged a week following on the next Full Moon. 'days later' Salinarg appeared and attacked the Lunar camp at Caroman Pass. The Hendriki marching north encountered the same encampment from the south side. From the pass the Lunars reached Boldhome a day later. I estimate that the campaign took at least three weeks.

I have a vague memory of that also... There's Dragon's Past in WF#15, but no dates are appended...

I'm getting the general idea that the wars with the Kitori might have the following segments: c.1530-1550: raids and attacks between the Volsaxi confederates and the Kitori. Tarkalor may have present already and even joined the Night Jumpers. 1546: Sarotar is killed after interrupting the ritual courtship of his lover Arkillia in Nochet. c.1543-7: Monrogh lays claim to the ruins of Vanntar and calls for a Yelmalion 'homeland' in Sartar. He becomes involved in the disjointed Kitori troubles. c.1550: Imarjina 'reveals' to Sartari that the death of Sarotar was orchestrated by the Norinel. Tarkalor takes this news and proclaims blood-feud against both the Norinel and the Kitori - their 'kin'. 1550-1560: Second phase of the war. Organized fighting. 1560: Tarkalor and the Volsaxi confederates take Whitewall, which was abandoned by the Kitori (note that there has been only one successful siege of Whitewall, that in 1621-2). Many Sartari present head to Pavis. 1565-9: Third Phase: Trouble in Sartar takes Tarkalor out of Hendrikiland (where he had possibly sought a princedom of his own). The Hendriki tribes mop up and push the Kitori into the furthest reaches of the Troll Woods. In c.1568-9, Tarkalor may have returned with the Red Cow and others and attacked the Kitori villages. 1579: Tarkalor retroactively cedes the Amber Fields and other Kitori lands to Vanntar. War officially ends and Kitori (the westernmost ones) declared Ergershi, or 'slaves'.

Depends on your group. I have run games where there's also very little violence. RPing doesn't even require that. It needs a good story, little more. Honestly, Glorantha's room for a game I can play with my 8 year old is a good thing. It also has space for games that are rather grim.

So, Joerg, you're arguing for a (starting) date in the 1540s? The only other date for Pavis I've been able to discern is the implied Sartarite activity there in 1557+. In The Coming Storm, it's a new settlement in 1557 (p.86) In 1568 it was still being settled. (same source, p.103). Still, I think the Norinel connection is important, and thus the feud has to develop post 1546. If you're correct, then a little before. I think we can agree that Esrolian politics is involved in some capacity. After all, the Kitori had allowed the settlement of the Quivin Mountains. Rereading my Pavis reference material indeed suggests that Varthanis was already a Yelmalion convert of Monrogh's in 1550. Of course... things could have moved quickly. Presumably Imarjina was already angling for the throne even before she achieved it in 1550. Possibly the war with the Kitori made the Norinel vulnerable before the vacancy itself...

Has anything more specific than "1602" been stated anywhere for the conquest of Sartar (I need to figure out what rough season the Hendriki left their tulas to die at the Battle of Caroman Pass, but an idea of the general dates would also be helpful). Presumably the Empire began the attack in summer, when their (Dara Happan at least) magics are more potent, rather than the alternate campaigning period, during Storm/Darkness.

So something like "Queen Imarjira in Esrolia's power was circumscribed by the influence of Grandmother Brengala, whose house Norinel had had a stranglehold on the queendom of Nochet for several reigns. Norinel had been the house of the Sad Lady, Arkilia, and were traditional allies of the Kitori, who were Shadow Lords like Kimantor, the husband of Norinel herself. The Shadow Lords combined Darkness and Man in a new way, so they were both Men and Trolls, and ruled the Troll Wood, receiving an ancient tribute promised to them by Heort himself from the Orlanthi of Sen Senrenen. Imarjira's rivals were bolstered by the support of the Dark Tribe, and so she sought their downfall. So Imarjira convinced the House of Sartar that House Norinel bore the primary responsibility for Sarotar's death, implying that they opposed his courtship of Arkilia and encouraged his rivals..." (This also explains partially who the Kitori are/were). Of course the exact way Imarjira manipulated events is unclear but this is the most clear-cut chain of events.

Also, Whitewall is just to the north. Flying devotees of Orlanth Thunderous may be more common than usual. Plus, Derensev is the the north west... They, of all people, would have mapped the nearby tulas. Particularly since Scholar Wyrm may be teaching there.

On to do list.

I've mapped the Gavrening Tula. This is a rough draft - I'm letting players invent and name steads and other geographical features. The spiritual geography is delineated by Gavren and Eneera, the cave woman. Gavrening tula map.tiff

I'm very suspicious of his character now, knowing what I do about tunnels near Pavis.

You are correct. The myth exists in the book without that framework. You (or rather we, since I have the same issues with it) should retell it, according to how the story has evolved (in universe and in the evolution of the game). Maybe we can work together to provide an alternate version, including the whole courtship and the 'Orlanth learns from his mistakes' missing conclusion.

The Seven Mothers has room for a lot of variety. And Humakt, Yelmalio and Sorcery could be easily accommodated among Lunar soldiers.

Greg's interest in mythology and anthropology is the reason that Glorantha exists, though we only really know of Her because of the game. Both are valid approaches to Her Mysteries.

The Trollkiller War [1551-1564] After Sarotar’s death in 1546 and the murder of Queen Norina in 1551, the House of Sartar and the House of Norinel were at war. When the Norinel requested aid from the Kitori, who were their ancient kin, against Sartar and the friends of Sartar, the feud spread to Hendrikiland. Tarkalor had already befriended the Yelmalion prophet Monrogh and had visited the Volsaxi. He proposed a war against the trolls and the troll-friends. The struggle for power in the Holy Country preoccupied Belintar, and he was unable to directly intervene… the Volsaxi would not recognize his sovereignty. Tarkalor’s allies were bolstered by the oppression of the Kitori, who had destroyed whole clans of the Hendriki. The rebels called the Night Jumpers led the Light Sons and many Sartarite swordthanes from Troll-hating clans into the Troll Woods, and Whitewall was rid of the rule of Darkness. Participating Homelands: Sartar, Hendrikiland, Esrolia Modifiers: Hendrikiland +10 to roll, Esrolia -5 to roll. 1-8 A normal year 9-11 Died of other causes see Random Death Table 12-20An ancestor participated in the Trollkiller War The Trollkiller War Which side were you on?: Most Sartarites and Hendriki fought the Kitori, or fled them. A few Hendriki, many Esrolians, and very few Sartarites fought for the Kitori, honoring ancient obligations and alliances. Esrolians who aided Tarkalor were usually members or clients of rival houses to the Norinel, though dissident Norinel princesses were also active. If your ancestor has a Darkness Rune, add +5 to their roll. If they are Esrolian, add an additional +5. Subtract 5 for Fire/Light runes. 1-15 Fought for Tarkalor 16-20Fought for the Kitori Queen. Ordinary Exploits Modifiers: Noble, Shaman, Priest, or Warrior +5 1-10 Ancestor survived the war. Gain Fear (trolls). 11-15 Ancestor was slain during the war. Gain Reputation +1d3%. 15-20Your ancestor was an active participant in one of the remarkable events of the long war. Extraordinary Exploits Add +5 for Fire/Light Rune, if possessed. Subtract 5 for Darkness rune, if possessed. 1-3 Ancestor was present during the early Night Jumper skirmishes. Add +10% Darkness Rune. 4-7 Ancestor was present during the attack on the Kitori villages. Gain a family heirloom of Kitori make, containing a Darkwall or Silence matrix. 8-11 Ancestor was slain by Zorak Zorani berserkers and their deathless thralls. Gain Fear (Undead) and Reputation +1d3%. 12-14Ancestor was present at the cleansing of Whitewall. Gain +10% Air rune. 15-17 Ancestor was part of Tarkalor’s personal hero band. Gain Loyalty (House of Sartar) and Reputation +1d3%. 18-20 Ancestor was recruited by Monrogh and learned Yelmalion mysteries. Add +10% Fire/Light rune and Reputation +1d3%.

Old Wind can only very approximately said to be in Sartar at all. It's also politically absent, at least until the Hero Wars. It's a good place to explore the atmospheric aspect of Orlanth, who's kind of an amoral force of sheer power, rather than a specifically helpful, stay in one place and help the clan survive kind of god. Like Mystics, the godi of Old Wind care only about the struggle for the Middle Air and the true meaning of Larnste (and the like) and are basically no longer focused on pragmatic needs...

If you read between the lines, Hendrik the Free probably broke an oath when he betrayed Palangio and became an outlaw. His people reject slavery (and usually thralldom) so they do have a nuanced view of forcible oaths. 'Tyrant' is a recognized mythic role in Orlanthi stories and those stories tend to go in the same way. Edit: However, later things come to a head with the Shadow Tributes; Hendriki rejection of Heort's promises perhaps stems from the same individualism.

People from certain occupations, like a Hunter, are less likely to be compliant slaves, since they can escape more easily. Note there is an Ernalda the Slave subcult in HQ, but not an Orlanth the Slave... He's Orlanth the Outlaw, the 'escaped slave/rebel'. A good reason to only allow Barntar (and not any other Thunder Brothers)... Ernalda the Slave however clearly also has a tradition called 'incite rescue'. I guess woman escapees would gravitate toward Vinga, who's also not fond of oppression. However I could imagine a Humakti being bound by an oath, and serving as the new master, including fighting revolts and rescue attempts... that's pretty sad.

Of course the Hendriki have a hostility to slavery... and that is where my PCs are from. I'm pretty sure that they have work-arounds to all these approaches. Do the Orlanthi really respect oaths made under duress? There is presumably some sly way to quibble over them.

What are the usual spirit magic spells useful to ordinary people? As a (single) parent, I'd definitely have things that help with cooking, cleaning, and something equivalent to caffeine ready. As a storyteller and poet, something that helps me perform or keep scads of words accurately memorised. I imagine farmers would have things that keep animals calm and cooperative, and heal and strengthen crops, or scare away/exterminate vermin and predators. Some of these might be cleverly used against oppressors, however. Are there some that are so mundane that they aren't in the rules?

How are Yelmalio and Elmal opposites? They both embody loyalty and steadfastness; their cultures interpret those virtues differently.