jeffjerwin

yes, true. Two mares or two stallions. In the mythological world, even our own - viz. Thor's two goats, etc., maybe not.

Some observations on the Empty Emperor, Kazkurtum, who was identified as Sheng Seleris by the Lunars. 1. Kazkurtum is the Shadow of Yelm, the Keeper of the Black Fire, the Heart of Yelm. It is he as the Black Shadow who faced Antirius at the Hill of Gold. 2. He is the Greater Darkness as an entity. He was 'cut into pieces' (lesser shadows) by Shargash at the beginning of the pre-Dawn. Shargash and ZZ are both undeath and hellfire cults. 3. Kazkurtum's indelible image as a monster was carved into a stone 'a few miles upriver' from Darleep. Here is/was worshipped. The land around here, Kostaddi, was 'stolen' from the magical body of the Red Emperor by Sheng Seleris/Kazkurtum in 1443. 4. About thirty miles from this to the SE is the city of Zeranos. Interesting, if this is the 'Cruel God', then the 'Selfish God' Orlanth is at Orlentus not far away... 5. ZRK Zeranos. KZKRT... 6. Zorak Zoran stole the fiery heat of Yelm in the Underworld. 7. Sheng Seleris is Arkat/AgartaSayu. He is the Other of the Emperor, like Kazkurtum is to Yelm. Arkat famously became a worshipper and avatar of Zorak Zoran. 8. Zeranos was where the Sun Dragon devoured the Dara Happan Emperor during the EWF conquest. 9. Zulan Zubar ~ Zorak Zoran ~ Zho Lat Ey ~ Jolaty ~ Solothi ...no smoke without fire...?

It's interesting that Gamari has no relationship here with Kargzant, the Sun Horse, who emerged as a god on the far side of the Imther Mountains. Edit: there is also Galgarange, the Gryphon, who is from that region as well. One would think there's some story about Hippogriff and Griffon (griffons eat horses, note), but we don't know it... So far as I recall. Note: if Yamsur was a chariot driver he probably had two horses: a mare and stallion. Possibly Kargzant was also wounded and was not tamed by Hyalor, but went into the east.

I have been studying the sources on the Starlight Ancestors - that is, the Lenshi mythology, along with the Stafford Library. Some observations: The original divinity of the Zatanae or Zayteneras is Zaytenera, later known as Verithurusa, the White Moon. Her lost city, Senthoros, was apparently in Andarkon, due east of the Yellow City (Abgammon). The Dara Happans reassigned her portfolio to her eastern neighbor, Buserian (who was given the (male) title of Zayteneras), and distinguished her from the god of Mernita, though the Lunars state that Lesilla/Jernedeus was her incarnation after she was refused hospitality by Yelm. According to the Life of Sedenya (http://ruleonemagazine.com/Iss5/Myth_LifeSedenya.php) her first lover was Him Below, whom I would equate with Devkuroski [alias Kuroskus], the Dweller Below or Evil God, whose fall from the Sky formed the Elf Sea. He is associated with Cold and Storm, and might be also equated with Yonesh, the Cold Sun. Since the Elf Sea was formed by a battle with Chaos, this divinity may be a Storm God who has usurped Sky powers. I think he is among the Orlanth called Vadrus. Vadrus' consorts included the Blue Woman, and of course after her love affair with Him Below, Verithurusa eventually became the watery Blue Moon. (A possibility that just occurs to me is that Ragnaglar might have been involved. He is perhaps connected to the Goat God Generdetho, whose son (Ovosto) usurped rule over Senthoros in her absence.) One part of her people went south and became the Votanki after making a pact with the Dog God (these obviously did not join with the Darnlo and become horse people). The Lenshi do not consider the Darnlo (the proto-Pentans) as being associated with the Zatanae, but instead they came with Him Below/Devkuroski. It was a group of the Darnlo [according to them] who converted to the worship of Kargzant and caused Devkuroski's death by using fire. Another part of the Darnlo, consisting of women, was enslaved as the Fifth portion of the Gamatae by Hurfor 'king of the Zaytenerae', who was an avatar of Kargzant. I think Hurfor's people were perhaps a mixed group, rather than being one or the other... Entekosiad: 'Kuroskus was a fearsome god. He had wounded many stars, and he had cast many down to the world. There were places on the earth where his victims still burned. The path of Kuroskus crossed that of Hurfor. Kuroskus waged his whole following of bright warriors against the children of Hurfor. They met in battle at the fields called the Distevos, where no stars shine today. The enemy god was destroyed and his bleeding carcass dropped to earth. Where it crashed down it created a great hole, and his bleeding filled it and sent waters rushing in a great river. All the men of Kuroskus were killed or condemned to the lake with him where they still live and steal women. All the captured women were taken into the tribe as fifths." Note the absence of any chaos in this battle, but of course the Orlanthi remember it as a battle against Wakboth. Perhaps Vadrus was betrayed by his unhappy followers? Or is this Ragnaglar? Him Below's death may have left Zaytenera/Verithurusa with a part of the Middle Air as her widow's portion, but her then identity would have been taken as a captive by Hurfor-Kargzant along with her mortal daughters, so she possibly escaped as the Blue Moon.

Doesn't that choice come with the moment of Illumination? Or is it just after? Sheng is playing with fire: a liberated Zolath is practically in-oppressible and an occluded Zolath is his rival and near-equal. It ought to be at the moment of, since illumination is liberation... So every Zolath is at the cusp of actual illumination? When his army was turned to stone at Kitor, were they 'en masse' exposed to the opportunity to choose? I think it in keeping with the Lunar Way if this was so.

Well, that is more flavorful, and does work in a similar fashion. Edit: However, it does mean that if their access to this memory of suffering is obstructed, they are as vulnerable as any other ancient hero...

I'm pretty sure all the peasants slaughtered to turn their fields into pasture might take issue with 'low-key'.

Well, if Metcalph is right on the wiki, he was born around 1515, making him 64, which is sorta 'old age' as the Guide puts it. PS. I'm taking a brief break from this project since I have a deadline and other stuff on my plate (like my Fourth Wane game with my daughter). I'll get back to this in a while.

Also many people in DH history seem to live for hundreds of years; recall for part of this time the Sun is unmoving and the movements of other planets after the Sun is gone are subject to change. I suspect exaggeration. Time may replace narrative continuity: i.e., myths do move forward, but they do so according to the needs of the story. Up till then, 'time' may have passed in a subjective rather than universal fashion. 'One thing after another' rather than 'five hours later'

My interpretation of the Zolathi, thus far, is that by their asceticism they can create a null magic space. By their superior mundane skill they can thus wreck havoc over rune masters and other enemies empowered by magic. By living as a simple peasant in Doblian, the surviving part of the Emperor learned to be 'ordinary' and without magic. The trouble up till then was that the Full Magical Panoply of the Emperor was essentially his whole existence. In my game, the other key weakness of SS is in the absence of Joy. I have him, like Koschei, cutting out his own heart as part of his transformation. But the heart, hidden somewhere, is his key weakness. Edit: The Goddess/Great Sister thus defeats him by embracing his way in the sense of the abandonment of all occult power, and by rejecting it, by austerities through Compassion, not Suffering.

Trickster in Dara Happa is also the Carrot God, for obvious reasons.

Cabbages can make a mighty wind

How long does the coupon stay good for? I have had some financial reversals and would like to wait till the Xmas holidays.

HeroQuest Glorantha, and the earlier HeroWars material. You may want to look at the Glorantha wiki. Here's the article on Drogarsi. http://glorantha.wikia.com/wiki/Drogarsi. The Skovari article hasn't been written yet tho.

Or maybe Sheng Seleris, that is, AgartuSay...?

Of course, Sheng's brother who attempted the Ten Tests could have easily therefore been a mini-Sheng, sent to distract to Emperor and waste his power. SS would have chosen the Jenarong style accession if given the opportunity.

Guide to Glorantha, p.364: "At the same time as the birth of the Red Goddess (1220), the man named AgartuSay was born amid great omens."

In the GRAY Kargzant returns in in 110,666. After 134 years, Emperor Jenarong [his mortal representative] is ruler of Dara Happa in 110,800 to 110,901 (101 years) Kargzant's ascendency takes 99 years. 111,001-111,100 (the text says 100). These dates look off... Certainly several 'On Horse' emperors are left out. This also explains why he can be the object of Argrath's Lightbringer Quest. He's a mythic Sun god, trapped in Hell. And also AgartuSay (which is clearly the Pentan name for Arkat) Still, I think Argrath made a terrible mistake. I wonder if somehow it is Argrath who is being played by AgartuSay. AgartuSay was born when the Red Goddess became a god... like Arkat's birth during the Sunstop. His path may also be inefficient because of the usefulness of following Arkat's lead.

Drogarsi is the skald/war dancing god, an aspect of both Orlanth and Donandar. He doesn't have the Truth rune - his stories are full of boasting. I think you may be thinking of Orlanth Lawspeaker (a form of Orlanth), or Lhankor Mhy. There is is also Skovari and Skovara, the puppeteers and dancing gods, who are associated with Orlanth and Ernalda, the folk entertainers.

Rumors of the Blue Moon Assassins are merely hearsay, my friend.

Jeweled Note was acquired in her Crown Test from the Duke of Disorder in the Snakepipe Caverns, which was in Wyrms Footnotes and I think in Wyrms Footprints too.

According to the Sartar Companion, the Bat is forbidden from the inner Heartland of the Empire (p.244). This has not happened for 'many years'. Perhaps something that occurred during the Seleran Wars accounts for this... I suspect control over the Bat was lost during one of the deaths of the Emperor or during the invasion of the Moon and it went fully rogue. This is omitted from the official history.

Here's my attempt:

Some general observations: There are two major reasons that might have something to do with the confusing nature of Fourth Wane history. 1. Sheng Seleris' history is almost certainly obscured because of the catastrophe of the Night of Horrors (1506). While people who remembered Sheng Seleris were probably at the battle, the only perspective that would have survived in oral tradition is that of the women, for the most part. 2. The Mask of Magnificus has long been pointed out as fundamentally a different figure from Takenegi, who achieved a partial identification with the dead emperor via hero questing. He probably was a Carmanian (?) with a distinct history from the Red Emperor, but the clear need to justify his accession may have caused whole portions of the war to be elided, deleted, or conflated with other events. I suspect that there was more than one pretender in the 1440s. The art in the Fortunate Succession clearly shows a part of the war but is curiously not associated with a named battle or event.

My perusal of the Glorantha Sourcebook version of the Red Line history shows that there was a war in Alkoth (1423) and his 'brother' attempted the Ten Tests in 1428; SS was present for the latter event. The battle illustrated in the Fortunate Succession with the 'crippled man' helping SS to escape the Lunar army does not correspond to a known engagement...