SDLeary

Chaosium traditionally waits until the electronic format is ready, and then posts, hardcopy comes later. No pre-orders. SDLeary

No. The Welsh/English Warbow is NOT composite. It is solely a self-bow; a bow fashioned out of a single piece of wood. Earlier in European History there were laminated Longbows, and the Japanese longbow (the Yumi) was of this type of construction. Based on pictures in Longbow and The Great War Bow, that there may have been some composite long bows in the Islands in the Middle Ages, but these were probably from a different tradition; perhaps a leftover of the Roman occupation. Composite Bows are generally higher powered for a given size than the self bow. Thus good for horseback use, giving greater range and perhaps penetration to a comparably sized European bow (Short bow, hunting bow, bow). Composite Bows are generally recurve, as were many prehistoric European longbows. SDLeary

I like this, and it could be somewhat easily integrated as an optional system in BRP. HP retaining their use as Stamina listed in this example. Not so fond of this. Additional tables during combat are bad imho. In fact, I find the current Major Wound tables a pain. Fixed effects for Special/Critical/Major Wounds always contribute to the continuity/flow of combat. The exception to this being the Fumble Table. No one seems to mind pausing to finding out what happens to their unlucky comrade, hoping for the old RQ "Hit self do max damage" result! SDLeary

I would say minutes, at least for bleeding. That way the effect would still occur on game time; on the Turn rather than the Round. Poor choice of words on my part. I meant that we don't want stacking DC modifiers for a particular type of attack. For example, Maille being -5 DC vs Edged but only -1 vs Bludgeoning; then also have a Mace have a modifier vs Maille. Its somewhat stating the obvious, but I find that when I keep things like this in mind, I don't expend effort needlessly when a brainstorm comes; unless its good enough to encourage me to change tack completely. Success = DC reduced to Half, Special = DC reduced to a Quarter, Critical = Completely out of the way of the blow sounds good here. Keeps it simple. Moving within the same realm, what about other defenses. Weapon parries and Shield blocks/parries? Flat DC reduction? SDLeary

Except for criticals and specials which have that potential, depending upon weapon. Oh, and Fumbles. Moving the damages back to RQ2 certainly make a bit more sense if we want more "realistic" damages where the effects of lack of immediate treatment and long term injury (Major Wounds). Thats what I'm suggesting. But you don't want multiple similar options, such as variable DC modifiers for a type of armor (as suggested earlier in the thread) AND a weapon modifier vs. a particular type of armor. I would suggest a base modifier from STR+SIZ, a base DC based upon armor type (material and construction) and any additional modifiers based upon weapon type. This allows for less common weapon modifiers, such as advantage against a specific type of defense, such as a modifier for Axe against Shields. Ah yes. I was looking at the table, and totally missing the first line of errata in the front cover. OK, thats fair. How do you factor Dodge into this? I'm assuming that we are still dealing with BRP Success Levels, as opposed to simple effects/success level as in RQ3. If this is the case, does a successful Dodge reduce the DC of the weapon, assuming Dodge Success vs. Special Attack Success, etc.? SDLeary

Ah, yes, on the table you presented above. For some reason I was envisioning the normal Damage Bonus table break points. Thats probably the best route. Plusses are already disappearing from the BRP-like games just to make things a bit quicker. I would still zero the damage bonus mod for DC at average. The potential for 6 (shortsword) points of damage after punching thru armor is still a hell of a lot. That would work too as long as you then give a static base to armor. You wouldn't want Maille -2DC bladed, -0 bludgeoning and a bounus to Mace vs Maille. Its still there, but only for the Pike. Three got rid of it completely. I would go 1d6 for Shortswords (gladius, seax, xiphos), 1d4 for fighting knives and daggers, and 1d3 or 1d2 for smaller blades. They should get it much worse than armored foes, if hit. Armor should impose other penalties for its use. In RQ6 for example, armor reduces Athletics, movement, and reaction. Unarmored foes would still presumably have a shield, dodge, or be good parrying with their weapon (I think weapon parries would have to be worked on the most). SDLeary

I think that 1 ap = 1 dc sounds a bit off. Cuirboilli for example is described as often being able to turn a gladius, but a -3DC would make it impervious. That would be a good option, the best in fact. I think in order to achieve that though, you are going to have to tackle damage of weapons somewhat. See above. Would this be zeroed at average (23.5)? Assuming so, then we seem to be looking at 2 to 3 damage classes for STR18 SIZ18. That sounds reasonable. I would suggest keeping d12 in there, just so that we can avoid the previously mentioned issue of weapon adds/multiple dice not being able to cause low enough damage/scratches. Gotcha I would advise against this. Daggers are already way too effective against unarmored foes. If you UP this AFTER (even if you are only really adjusting the average) punching thru armor, then it will be even more unbalanced. In fact, dagger should probably be taken down to 1d4, or perhaps even 1d3. Makes sense. SDLeary

Ok. Makes sense. Have you thought what the break-points might be? Tough Leather say -1 DC, Cuirboilli -2, Maille -2 vs blades, but +- 0 vs bludgeoning, etc.? How would this work in a game that didn't use Locations and had variable armor to compensate, as in default BRP or Stormbringer? Would the steps used in the current Damage bonus chart be used? I would think not as that would increase damage class rapidly. And, if a stronger (and larger?) character can push thru stronger armor on a regular basis, then wouldn't it also follow that their added strength and size would also allow them to do more damage once they have punched thru the armor, or even if their opponent wore no armor at all? That makes sense. It would also allow Special or Critical effects to take effect after penetrating armor, as mentioned up-thread. Though it also suggests that weapons still would need to be re-statted. A dagger doing 1d4 AFTER punching thru armor just doesn't sound right. Doesn't this get a bit strange though as you move up to, say, Goranthan trolls or larger beasties? Also, what about if a weapon gets bumped beyond 1d12? Would the next step really be 1d20, assuming that you still wanted the weapons to be able to "graze" an opponent? SDLeary

So armor would protect vs a Damage Class? How would a Hero overcome his foe if he has a dagger and they are armed with spears? Possible (though very difficult, and assuming one of the opponents don't crit him first) in BRP. Does the Strength of a hero increase the damage class? Special hits, crits, etc.? SDLeary

Much of this discussion has focused on the general nature of damage in BRP, or using firearms as an example. What about melee? If you use a shifting damage class rather than adds, on what do you base it? Also, with the finite number of die types available, how would you adjust the various weapons that use multiple dice? In answer to the first, every weapon listed has an associated minimum STR listed in order to be able to use the weapon effectively. Perhaps every X points (5?) of STR over the minimum increases the damage die by one step. Thus, a broadsword with a STR requirement of 9, and say a base damage of 1d8, would increase to 1d10 for a character that had a STR of 14. This would work in reverse as well, a STR 5 character only being able to get 1d6 out of the weapon, in addition to the skill penalty for STR lower than required. The issue that I have with this, while feasible for human sized characters, this gets somewhat ridiculous with, say, trolls. In regards to the second question, I see no solution short of re-statting all the weapon damages. Which could then necessitate re-statting all the Armor, etc. As a result, we get into compatibility issues with supplementary material. A conversion sheet of course helps, but thats always something of a pain to have to refer to. SDLeary

I think the issue here is the definition of Minor Wound. I agree with you about adrenaline mitigating effects of wounds, assuming the situation was such that it could provide the boost prior to injury (combat, drug effects, etc.). Adrenaline effects pumping in after the wound could allow the injured to remain conscious, or perhaps even get up after going down to press another attack. To be fair, much of this research and the changes elicited by it had to do with the effects of certain "recreational" drug on the body; enhanced adrenaline secretion, suppression of pain, multiple other effects. One of the other changes from some of the studies was a change from .38 S&W, to 9mm, and then to .40 S&W, enhancing "takedown" power. Similar arguments and data out of combat in Iraq and Afghanistan have prompted participating militaries to reintroduce larger calibre weapons to infantry squads. And for the record, I do feel that despite the effort Sandy put in with Jane's books for the publication of Cthulhu Now, that firearms are somewhat fubared with regards to damage. I agree that Morale is a big factor. This is why I support some form of Mook rules; rabble going down after one hit, one "major wound", or some other. But keep in mind that in RPGs we are generally not modeling "the vast majority...". Also... If you actually listen to the speeches on this, it is backed up by the fact that we have advanced so far in trauma treatment, not that the wounds themselves are any less severe. It is also tempered by the fact that officers are required in most departments to wear their vests, rather than it just being an option. I don't doubt it. I just haven't found one that fits the way I play, and neither have any (to my knowledge) in the groups that I play with. I agree. But to do it within the context of BRP, without a wholesale re-write or creation of yet another iteration, and have it remain visibly BRP should be the goal. Thus an Optional Rule that would be flexible enough to just slot in. Also, it should take into consideration that an ancient culture, while possibly advanced, would not have access to the advanced medical technology that make treating wounds so much more survivable. Now, on the other hand, your creating a standalone BRP based game tailored for a specific genre, go for it! To which value are you referring to here? The fractional HP value, the house-rulled threshold for death, or to the Heroic roll? If the former, it is implied, as it is a portion of the overall pool for damage absorption in BRP. Fair enough. But this is a house-rule that has existed in certain circles since RQ came out. This change could be made official and many wouldn't even notice. I agree with you here. I wouldn't rule that each one was was a single point of damage. I WOULD require some kind of roll to remain conscious, at least after the second one went in. The whole episode might cost one point, but possibly not; would probably impose a penalty to movement, perhaps to DEX assuming they could get free. A dagger (a broad blade) thrust thru the foot would be another matter though. Mechanically though, this isn't really all that different from any system that models bodily damage. In any system, you have to decide what is enough to cause damage, whether that is represented by HP or by a threshold system. Whether the system is going to only model actual physical damage, or the effects of damage, etc. Its not "wrong". While it can elicit silly results, the GM has ultimate control of the situation. If they are somewhat informed, then they can rule appropriately. Perhaps a treatise for GMs on such issues? Honestly, it simply sounds like HP are not granular enough for you. Perhaps a large single pool, Sanity sized say, that is used for Fatigue, Damage, and if used Magic Points? (thats just off the top by the way, just a brainstorm)

Except that a weapon, even if the armor is penetrated, is going to slow down a bit during penetration. This might be an insignificant amount, as with most modern firearms and say Late Medieval/Early Renaissance Plate, but with more archaic weapons enough to possibly reduce the damage by a notable amount. SDLeary

No, but probably enough to take you out of the action at least due to unconsciousness or fatigue. Pain is often an issue as well though. Once someones pain threshold is exceeded, they will often black out, regardless of the actual severity of the wound. Real shock is also a contributor, though rarely causes a person to loose consciousness when the injury initially occurs. No, not all are unplayable... harsh term on my part. Lets say they also tend to have other issues, that when combined with more accurate modeling of injury make them much less enjoyable to play; your mileage may vary. Again, 1/11th or 1/12th of the damage a body can take is still a significant amount of damage. Now, I will agree that the character may not be dead at that point. In fact, I generally use negative 1/2 CON or CON for actual death. At zero HP however, they are truly out of the fight. Nothing, not even a critical Heroic (CON xX) roll will allow them to continue. They are unconscious or comatose. I generally agree with you here, though I would say that actual impairment would depend on the nature of the damage, not just the amount. And you could effectively get killed by it. If a Giant stomps the whole party, you are effectively dead. Sorry, I may have missed something with this quote. I agree that a pistol round wouldn't penetrate a steel plate, at least enough to do more than scratch the person hiding behind, depending on the thickness of the plate (5.7mm rounds and 4.6mm rounds might be different depending on the plate). Isn't this kind of instance modeled in a reduced chance to actually hit the person behind cover? I wasn't thinking of RQ6s method, but Chaosium's RQ2 method. In cRQ2, an Impale was the total amount of damage the weapon could do, plus the weapons damage rolled again. In their example, Rurik using a spear that impaled would do 7 points (1d6+1 for short spear), plus an additional 1d6+1. Now, RQ6s method could work, but I have issues with being able to choose the effect after the fact, ESPECIALLY with missile weapons. (they may have mitigated things somewhat, haven't made it that far in the book yet, basing things of mRQII/Legend). SDLeary

No, of course not, its an abstract. But it is one that is fairly straightforward, easy to understand. The amount of punishment a body can take does vary from body to body, what an HP represents is a portion of that. Thus in my example a body could take 11 of that type of hit and end up in a state where the body would die before long. Locational hits matter, but even there you have people in real life that get shot thru the heart, lungs, brain, and are still able to function. Long metal pipes thru the brain and live with no visible brain damage, etc. The way the body functions is very very complex, and there is NO game system that models it well, at least one that most people would consider playable. Also true. But I can almost guarantee you that if suddenly you were injured for 1/11 of the physical damage that your body could take, that you would feel it. You could be in a state when it happens where adrenaline helps you to push the pain to the side, or perhaps a mental state that allows you to feed off of the pain (Bloodrage/Berserk), but it would still be felt, and significant. Being drugged in some way could negate things. I've always seen a special/critical in BRP as somewhat independent to the defense. A master hits really well in a given round, well enough that he delivers a debilitating or fatal blow. This does NOT preclude the defender from doing just as well, or bing aided enough (armor, magic, etc.) to negate the effects of the blow of the master. If you don't want to use crits and specials based upon weapon damage, then perhaps a Special allows the attacker to migrate a hit to one adjacent location with normal rolled damage; a Critical the same with the old cRQ2 special effects (for some weapon variability). SDLeary

You wouldn't. You'd go thru the initial time to learn it as defined in the Sorcery section, and then leave it. If you haven't gone thru the initial learning phase, then you don't know the specifics to summon a particular type of being/spirit/etc. Now, if we wanted to modify this a bit, Summon could be a Hard skill to learn (+1d3 skill point per successful skill check after research time). The general skill would be able to summon beings with varying difficulties to the skill. Each spell for creature type could then function as a modifier that would make it easier to summon that type. Another option would be similar to Pendragon, where different types of creatures cost more MP to summon. Perhaps in this case, it could be X + MP of summoned creature, or some such. SDLeary

1 point of damage is very significant. On average it represents about 1/11 of the ability of the character to take damage. That means that 11 single point hits will kill most characters! In the real world, a single point hit would probably hurt like hell, enough to temporarily distract a person from what they were doing if they were not used to dealing with notable pain. Even if you are using the heroic hit point option, it is still a significant amount of damage. Like you, I've always considered a graze as an attack that just barely missed. Thus, if the dude with the .50 cal misses by 2 percentiles, then the target felt the round pass, if the miss it by 1 percentile, then it probably penetrated their clothes and perhaps left a scratch or burn as it passed if they were wearing no ballistic armor. I would consider a graze by a dagger or other weapon to be the same. A miss by the attacker, but just barely. I would consider grazes and whatnot to also be inflicted when the attacker is pulling their blow to perhaps annoy or subdue. It would work, but then we would have to find another way to differentiate between weapons, some very powerful compared to the baseline, with a finite number of die types. I'm not really one that likes rolling tons of dice. And, honestly, while skill should help determine how well an attack is placed, even a master can be thrown off by angle, etc, in dealing a definitive blow. Perhaps certain weapons should have more impact in Special and Critical situations, masters being able to hit these thresholds more often. SDLeary

p. 94 (softbound) Common Magical Procedures: Spells: Types of Spells Learning of the specific spells is essentially learning the differences needed in the various summonings, so I would not require points to be put into the separate skills... unless I was in an evil mood. SDLeary

Just an FYI with regards to Magic World. Unless it has changed dramatically since the version that I've seen, the way the setting in Magic World is presented, it can be perceived as an example, not the default. In fact, outside the Table of Contents, the setting, the Southern Reaches, is not even mentioned until the very end of the book. The game itself is designed to be dark-ish fantasy, but not at all setting dependent, or even setting integrated. There is a separate guide that better chronicles the Southern Reaches being worked on that better fleshes this example setting out. SDLeary

Odd. I saw the first run here in SF in 79, and certainly remember death and dismemberment, etc. I don't remember dead characters returning, though that may have been in later runs... kids censorship became much more an issue in the 80s. In fact, even in the first run of Macross (yes as Robotech) they hadn't completed the editing yet, and when the SDF-1 changed, you'd see body parts flying as people got sliced up by shifting bulkheads, or during battle explosions. When I saw this run later, it was obvious that stuff had been airbrushed out. Been years... I should track some episodes down and watch. OH! Has anyone heard ANYTHING about the recent live-action Battleship Yamato being dubbed into english? I would LOVE to see that. SDLeary

SWEET! Excellent cover! SDLeary P.S. Loz... forums down?

OMG! A very excellent system sir! SDLeary

I don't believe there is anything like Feats. Ki skills from the old LoN should drop in fine though. SDLeary

They didn't! Portrait two-column with a large enough outer area for Saga material. (overall say 2.5 columns). SDLeary

And is one of the PDFs that is VERY readable showing full page on my iPad! An excellent job and should be considered the standard that others aspire to! SDLeary