StephenMcG

This is a fascinating discussion. I dislike the character advancement mechanism as it makes the player choose between more efficacy now or longer term improvements when it is by accomplishing great things that is more likely to lead to greater efficacy and confidence. I am wondering whether you should only increase if you get a major success or better with a contest in which you use a Hero Point. I am now also wondering whether all abilities should scale within the party - Sven is the greatest axeman of our group while Brunhild is the best healer. All advancement would then be for improving the party's standing (and reducing the base resistances that they face with regard to opponents). I like the idea of ranking opponents - so a trollkin would be a minor obstacle and a Mother Race troll would be a heroic obstacle. Base resistances would scale for the level of obstacle faced... Perhaps a bit much for the purposes of this thread but it might be a different way to do things. The greatest axeman would remain so unless the greatest axeman was missing the session and then someone else would take that role...lots of thought needed but the conversation throws up a greater narrative consideration....

I used a mixture of simple and extended contests for the Cradle scenario under Hero Wars with, I think, some success. The players won the first few extended contests as waves of Lunars sought to board the cradle but suffered hurts from simple contests from the missile and magic preceding each wave, thus decreasing their abilities to face the next wave. The extended contests tied things together, are they really that bad in play?

OK, I was on board with Hero Wars (kudos to Bruce Ferrie for running a intro session for my group) and ran a small campaign that ended using first edition HeroQuest. I am currently running a RuneQuest game and layering HQ over the top for crossing onto the Hero/God plane. As such I have been more closely reading the HQ rules and I am stumbling with the Rising Action stuff. I think I have a handle on it but I don’t think the rules make it clear. Would I be right in saying that during an adventure I can run everything unrelated as simple contests and use the consequences after each contest as per page 70. If I am going to use extended contests I should use the rising action consequence table (top of page 83) for the contests up to the climax and then the climactic consequence table (lower in page 83) for the final contest? Am I also right to say that the contests in the run up can use a mix of simple and extended by utilising columns 1 and 4 to correlate consequences? So this table can supersede the table on page 70? I can see the value in all this but I think it needs more clarity in the rulebook. It has taken me several read throughs and I persevered simply because I am determined to get it right. I like the idea of the cheat sheet but that does not (on a quick scan) cover this element of consequences. Stephen

I prefer to add everything up before deciding to split etc. I think that if you are saying the +10% is on the sword and effects both hits then the 10% could not apply as to whether the attack could be split at all - which should all be about the wielders skill and not the weapon being used. Personally, I think that the additional chance to hit is a bonus to the wielder of the weapon and that to double dip on chance to hit is to make the spell a bit too effective for what it is, you get the bonus to skill because the sword handles better and then it provides additional damage to everything hit by the weapon. IMG obviously... 🙂 Stephen

It can be difficult. I had a magical situation where I wanted the players to highlight a thing they would have boosted at the expense of something that they would lose. I wasn't that explicit but they were all asked the question of what they would give up - one player said "nothing" which was a legitimate answer that I was not actually expecting. I had nothing at the time to deal with that but, after some hard chewing by my subconscious, he did not lose anything but he gained the boon he was seeking but he also now shows up on ANY detect spell that is cast around him. It is surprisingly disruptive in all kinds of ways and I think he might have to quest to do something about it... Stephen

The Game before Rules Principle: do not allow the flow of the game to be ruined looking up the detail of a rule. Tell the players you are making a ruling and will check rules after the session. Too often a moment of tension in the game is allowed to dissipate as everyone consults rulebooks and argue over details. This is the GMs job, keep the pace of the game up and when in doubt, rule in the player's favour (unless ruling against them would make for a better story and be more fun).

So many options! 🙂 A complex cost benefit calculation every time you fire an arrow!!!

If you are the archer, what would you do? The target is running toward you and will not reach you but will be within a more accurate range soonish. Do you wait a bit to get a better shot? I would. If the archer is going to fire twice, I might say to the player that during the first shot the target is at an extreme range but the second one will be easier as the range has closed a bit. Flexibility in GMing is a great thing, you can even use such things to build tension.

I think you are still thinking too linearly. 🙂 Do the NPCs shoot at PC1? If so, then you are in Strike Ranks early on as the shots and spells might affect the movement. Is the PC moving close so that he can interact with a different NPC? If so, the shots go before the PC reaches the NPC but the strike rank between the PC and the NPC (who was not shooting but might have been spelling) is resolved normally - the PCs movement will not add to his SR as their combat reflexes are simply being compared to each other to see who goes first (this is where SR does not reflect actual time taken). I might allow the NPC to use 4 'free' SR to cast a spell as someone is moving toward her. This is the most complex and it is good to be a bit flexible to make things make sense. Is the PC simply moving that round (or doing other things that do not directly affect anyone else around him) and noone is going to interact with him? Then get that movement out of the way first. It actually clarifies with players what is going on and if all the movement is done upfront it can change the actions people intend to do, which might affect that movement.

You know, to show a contrast you need to establish a baseline. My biggest task with a group of Glorantha newbies was to establish in their heads what was ‘normal’ for Glorantha, or indeed what was normal for the bit they came from. Adventurers are, by their very nature, a more eclectic, rule-breaking group than the vast majority of everyone else. They need to feel the constraints that apply to everyone else in their society, so that they can appreciate when they break the rules and possibly understand how far someone else is going. in every part of Glorantha rule-breaking is feared as it often leads to chaos or god-learner-ism or worse! There are pretty good practical reasons to be socially conservative. I think I might spend a little time introducing Arbroath, have him sweep through, doing what he does, but have the adventurers clean up the disruption, socially and magically, have them appreciate what a deep trough he is ploughing through the world. Let them see the good and bad (always a bit of both in wartime). In every campaign I ever played it has been better to show than tell, but it does take such a long time to get gamers to invest in your world. Well worth it for a group likely to remain together for the long haul...

I think the trick is when someone is moving in phase 2 and another character decides to interact, the actions can all then be delayed until SR combat counting. If there is no interaction, the movement is out of the way, their spells and missile stuff can wait until the SR counting is being done. It is all abstraction rather than simulation...(in my head it is anyway)

Well, I think that I am more likely to do that kind of the thing in the Rubble than many other places, like I say, it is pretty funky in magic terms... I tend to allow them to go to the Rubble and adventure but they know that there is always a chance they find themselves in much deeper water than they planned. People do live there and people do survive. The safe routes are specific and once off the beaten track the risks are more variable than they might be in many other areas in Glorantha. Big risk, big reward is what draws people to the area. My campaign is still many years back as I build the characters up to the Cradle scenario - fantastic for players to experience - RQG is going to need an adventure as epic as this one pretty soon...

I like to push the characters onto the Hero Plane in a variety of ways. It is a good way to emphasise the magical underpinning of the setting. If they are going into the Rubble with Argrath then there is going to be some hefty magic going on. If Argrath is questing then there is every chance those on the periphery will get swept up in the magics and into the Hero Plane. They may also get swept up into the quest of some of Argrath's opponents who need cult appropriate enemies to defeat. 🙂 Personally, I use HeroQuest rules when they get onto the Hero Plane to get a different play feel - a more narrative environment where rules are easier to bend. Stephen

In an international board, is there a wide understanding of the meaning of havering?? 🙂 Stephen (Glaswegian by birth and upbringing)

This would not be a terrible use of the Battle skill. Each group gets a battle skill roll at the beginning of the conflict. The side that succeeds declares their statement of intent first and will continue to do so, the best lead side always seems to be a step ahead... I might allow further rolls to change the dynamic at a significant penalty from the losing side or until someone does something to significantly change the dynamic. Stephen

You know, for beginning characters the Big Rubble is indeed a dangerous place. It would be a decent way to narratively describe the heights of power that the characters may face/wield in the future by being essentially pickets and guardsmen for Argrath's essay into the Rubble. I think I would be keen to describe lots of the stuff going on but have the PCs interact more with sergeants than the great man himself. I would have them fight rubble runners and wraiths and have them dragged onto the Hero Plane at somepoint to battle trolls/chaos creatures. It would be for you to ensure that their contribution was necessary and, at some level, heroic rather than being onlookers to the betters. My biggest reason for taking them there is that it is a fantastic playpen for all kinds of adventures - it has funky magical effects - it contains almost everything you might want for a long campaign arc - you would be able to presage future adventures. So, for example, in the Hero Plane they fight trolls which are looking to disrupt whatever quest Argrath is undertaking but their part of that leads them to fight other trolls which carry a "secret" - the secret, when they get back should lead to a troll stronghold that contains a map to Balastor's Barracks. In my Glorantha the exact location of the barracks are long lost, otherwise why have they not already been ransacked. There should be several ways to give the players strings to pull that lead them in a variety of ways depending on whether they are interested in magic, combat or exploration... Stephen

But hitting with a dagger or light weapon might prefer to avoid armour. I need to look again but I think the critical avoids both armour and magical protection. Well worth it for a trollkin spear-carrier, or beginning character with no damage bonus or much magic... The choice provides some flexibility (IMO anyway!). 🙂 Stephen

I am intending to offer players a choice when they critical. They can either get maximum damage OR they can bypass armour. Each will have its place and be useful in different situations. stephen

But you might not be actively defending against an attack when you deliver healing. Then it would not be necessary to count SRs. Obviously if you were healing while someone was trying to hit you or the person you are trying to heal, then SRs become very important and it is important to know whether you get the healing in first or whether the attack hits first. At that point you might decide to heal less than you were going to, just to make sure the healing happens before the attack...

I might be simplifying and I might be making things more complex but why are we worrying about SR when there is no actual combat involved. Unless there was a third party involved who was trying to hit the healer then I would be inclined to say that the movement and magic all takes place at SR1 (+(any additional MPs-1)) unless there is interaction with someone else... It doesn't matter as far as order goes in this instance and really only is an issue of whether it takes one or two melee rounds due to the additional MPs. Stephen

Had not thought of this before. I think that it would require a lot of thought though. If a weapon requires 30 STR to use in combat, should it get all the damage bonus for that STR or should it only get bonus for STR that is higher. Should there be a point where using a weapon where the damage bonus is higher than the weapon damage, should it actually damage the weapon? It is very easy for things to get very complicated.

I would say probably not as it says add the damage bonus, not the damage modification. Small people with clubs will be more dangerous in my Glorantha. 🙂 And larger creatures with clubs will deliver a few numb arms, legs and heads... Stephen

good point, editing now... haven't played the new rules, my current campaign uses a mix of RQ2 and Heroquest. I am guessing magic in battle is gonna be more accurate, Rune magic looks to come in much more quickly in RQ:G

Part of Runequest to me is the fact I have been playing and reading about it for almost 40 years. I forget that others might be coming to it for the very first time. I understand that Glorantha might be overwhelming to a newcomer, I forget that Runequest might be intimidating, there ARE a lot of moving parts. If you are new to the system, what should you do? My advice is start small on both Glorantha and the system. Grab Apple Lane. Build some characters (don't use the whole background thing, that can come later when you grok the core system and will speed up the delivery of playable characters). Make everyone human, you can even make everyone worshippers of Orlanth, there is enough diversity at beginning level without having to import multiple cults and races. Don't worry too much about runes and passions, tell the players you will be open to them making changes between sessions if their initial choices are not as optimal as they would like. They should not stress about spell choices but at least half of them should have decent healing magic (again be open to swapping magic between sessions, it is a great way for players to explore the system. As GM you need to be a few pages ahead but you can paint the wider world and other cults as weird and obscure. You can mention all these things and the draw of alternatives to Orlanth will take your players away from this base. It should only take a couple of sessions to play through but by this time you will all be content with the basics: 1) How to hit, parry and dodge 2) how to manage strike ranks 3) how important spirit magic is 4) how a cult provides a connection between the character and the world 5) How passions and runes extend the basic system. You will also see how much time you have before any of the more complex stuff like skills over 100% and sorcery and shamanism will take to become relevant. Ignore that stuff in the book to begin with. Your players will either be quite content in their Orlanthi bubble and keen to explore the world, or they will be bursting to try out other cults and magic. You could then offer to run through the background stuff to fill in their character backgrounds and broaden their passions etc, this will begin to introduce them to Glorantha's deeper history or you could just run with what you have, letting players decide their relationship to stuff as you encounter them (which would be less coherent but quicker and less prone to folk worrying about making the 'wrong' choices). The big rule of thumb I got from this community is do whatever provides the most fun to your players. Everything is disposable to that end. If you veer wildly from canon, who cares. If you want a game more tied to the mainstream start another set of characters using all the bells and whistles once you and your players are comfortable with what matters. There you go. The rules you have in your hand will provide you with more than enough information to do Apple Lane, when you have run that you will know enough to judge other stuff and how to use it in your Glorantha. That's my two cents as a grognard, enjoy the game youngling, it has been a pleasure of mine for nigh on four decades and it looks better than it did back in the day.... Stephen

Yeah, but lots of players (I am pointing no fingers) are highly motivated by that extra damage and, when you see your mate destroying trollkin with an impale and all your crush does is be a but more successful in hitting (which is also true of Mr Stabby) then the club is discarded and everyone begins to look the same... I have played with the current rules since 1980 or so, I have never changed them and it is only reading the changes to slash in RQ:G that made me begin to question the status quo. Why upgrade slash and leave crush unloved.... 😞