Multiple Skill Rolls to Achieve Single Result

[cjbowser]

I wanted to get the group's opinion on something else skill related as well.

How do you feel about making multiple skill rolls to achieve a single result? The best example I can think of can be found in Delta Green Countdown. It adds the Tradecraft Skill. In and of itself, Tradecraft does little. However, if you want to plant a bug, you must first succeed at a Tradecraft roll and then a Surveillance roll.

If the character makes the Tradecraft roll, but fail the Surveillance, the bug isn't planted.

If the character fails the Tradecraft roll, but makes the Surveillance, the bug is planted. However, it might be easily spotted or in a sub-optimal position to capture conversations in the room.

If both fail, the bug's not planted.

If both succeed, the bug's planted and works as expected.

Does this complicate matters unduly or does it add to the experience? In the above example, would a single Surveillance roll be enough to succeed, in your opinion?

[Byron Alexander]

Personally, I see no real reason for the tradecraft roll in that scenario. Generally, I'd prefer a single roll to get a single result.

[frogspawner]

It depends how significant the action being performed is. If it's the climactic event of an adventure (e.g. defuse the Bomb) then a single roll might feel like being short-changed. If it's something unimportant (or I'm not that interested in), then one roll is fine. Any blow in combat could be significant though, so that's why it involves plenty of rolls...

[Al.]

As a general guideline I prefer rolling once against both skills to be tested

Example

Martial Arts. Roll once against <Weapon used> and Martial Arts

Under both - hit do more damage

Under <Weapon> but over Martial Arts- hit do normal damage

Under Martial Arts but over <Weapon> - never happened to me, weak pont in my argument would need to fudge it

Over both - miss

Al

[NickMiddleton]

I wanted to get the group's opinion on something else skill related as well.

How do you feel about making multiple skill rolls to achieve a single result? The best example I can think of can be found in Delta Green Countdown. It adds the Tradecraft Skill. In and of itself, Tradecraft does little. However, if you want to plant a bug, you must first succeed at a Tradecraft roll and then a Surveillance roll.

If the character makes the Tradecraft roll, but fail the Surveillance, the bug isn't planted.

If the character fails the Tradecraft roll, but makes the Surveillance, the bug is planted. However, it might be easily spotted or in a sub-optimal position to capture conversations in the room.

If both fail, the bug's not planted.

If both succeed, the bug's planted and works as expected.

Does this complicate matters unduly or does it add to the experience? In the above example, would a single Surveillance roll be enough to succeed, in your opinion?

I voted that it over complicates matters, simply because I think too many people use it without thinking through the impact "compound" rolls have on success and failure. If, in your example, the character is 51% in both skills, the chance of rolling BOTH successfully in a "compound roll' is only 25% - suddenly the Professional Spy is only an amatuer...

As Al. says, the better approach is to match a SINGLE roll against multiple skills: in which case, the Professional Spy would still have a 51% of successfully placing the bug, but his protégé from local LEO with minimal Tradecraft (22%) would likely hide the bug (get less than 51) but quite likely in an position a skilled agent would look (roll less than 51 but greater than 2).

As a further consideration, I'd be wary of adding skills that could conceivable be covered by others, or subsumed by broad skills. For example, I'd prefer to write up Tradecraft as a specific Craft skill (in the sense that it's a body of practical skills and procedures one can teach), rather than add it as a new stand alone skill.

Cheers,

Nick

[cjbowser]

As a general guideline I prefer rolling once against both skills to be tested

Example

Martial Arts. Roll once against <Weapon used> and Martial Arts

Under both - hit do more damage

Under <Weapon> but over Martial Arts- hit do normal damage

Under Martial Arts but over <Weapon> - never happened to me, weak pont in my argument would need to fudge it

Over both - miss

Al

Good point. I thought of this option about an hour ago and figured somebody would already have brought it up.

That might be the way to go.

[cjbowser]

As a further consideration, I'd be wary of adding skills that could conceivable be covered by others, or subsumed by broad skills. For example, I'd prefer to write up Tradecraft as a specific Craft skill (in the sense that it's a body of practical skills and procedures one can teach), rather than add it as a new stand alone skill.

Cheers,

Nick

Excellent point Nick. My tradecraft example was used because it was the only printed case I could think of. As mentioned in my other post, I'd prefer not to add skills. Although new specializations in Craft, Research, Knowledge, and Science type skills are ok in my mind.

[rleduc]

I fully agree with frogspawner.

[jean]

I wanted to get the group's opinion on something else skill related as well.

How do you feel about making multiple skill rolls to achieve a single result? The best example I can think of can be found in Delta Green Countdown. It adds the Tradecraft Skill. In and of itself, Tradecraft does little. However, if you want to plant a bug, you must first succeed at a Tradecraft roll and then a Surveillance roll.

If the character makes the Tradecraft roll, but fail the Surveillance, the bug isn't planted.

If the character fails the Tradecraft roll, but makes the Surveillance, the bug is planted. However, it might be easily spotted or in a sub-optimal position to capture conversations in the room.

If both fail, the bug's not planted.

If both succeed, the bug's planted and works as expected.

Does this complicate matters unduly or does it add to the experience? In the above example, would a single Surveillance roll be enough to succeed, in your opinion?

It depends on the situation

usually I feel only one roll (below tradecraft and surveillance) is enough

But if another skill may help the task (knowledge aera to help in the bug's hiding) or if something must be done before the task (picklocking a door), I think that multiple skill rolls are needed.

Jean

[Gundamentalist]

Good point. I thought of this option about an hour ago and figured somebody would already have brought it up.

That might be the way to go.

As Nick and Al. both point out that *is* the way it should be implemented. One roll which tests both skills.

That's what I intended when I wrote up the skill and submitted it to Pagan anyway. I based it on Martial Arts which works in the same way.

[cjbowser]

As Nick and Al. both point out that *is* the way it should be implemented. One roll which tests both skills.

That's what I intended when I wrote up the skill and submitted it to Pagan anyway. I based it on Martial Arts which works in the same way.

Thanks, Adam. I must have misread that section of Countdown back when I read it.

[Atgxtg]

I, for one, don't mind multi0ple skill rolls for things like extended tasks. For example, if a character is fixing something I could see making a craft roll and the damaged object getting back some HP with each roll, until it is repaired.

Such actions can be good for dramatic situations where the characters have a deadline to accomplish something. It not a bad way to handle a battle between armies, either. Or sneaking around an enemy compound. Or a chess match.

Basically, this is really what we are doing in combat. We break it down into series of rolls. Doing it for something else is viable, as long as the task in question merits the extra attention and detail.