Call of Cthulhu rpg 8th edition?

[Travern]

5 hours ago, Numtini said:

As others have suggested, I think the current "two book set" is confusing

I never had any conceptual trouble with it even though I moved over from D&D, though I find myself explaining the difference in CoC a lot lately.  On the other hand, I'm more bothered by Delta Green's division between the Agent's Handbook (required for all the game rules not involving "The Unnatural") and the Handler's Guide (required for all the Unnatural-related game rules, plus a ton of lore that could have gone into a standalone volume).

[TrippyHippy]

On 8/14/2019 at 3:43 AM, Numtini said:

As others have suggested, I think the current "two book set" is confusing, doubly more for D&D players because for D&D the Players Handbook is the "rules" and the GM book is the fluff, where it's opposite for CoC. And I'd love to see an updated layout. 

I would not make changes to the actual system. Not that I don't want changes. I don't think it went far enough and I'd like to see redundant skill consolidation and another pass at automatic weapons, but there's still enough people who want to chuck the whole thing and go backwards that I just don't see it as being a viable option to move further forward.

Well, I think it was confusing for the developers when it was being made, because the original idea was for the core rules to be spread through the two books in a manner not dissimilar to D&D. However, playtesters complained so they had to reformat the Keeper's book to being a standalone core rules. As such, you don't need the Player's book, it just gives more player characer options. Indeed, you could buy the Keeper's book, skip the players book and buy Pulp Cthulhu instead, if you were in that way inclined. 

Anyway, for me, I have got a few issues with some rules (expressed ad nauseam previously), but I'd still prefer this edition a chance to grow - and it's supplemental releases have been generally excellent so far. The things I miss from previous edition's core books, really, is some of the 'fluff' - like the complete Call of Cthulhu short story or some of the classic scenarios. I did appreciate seeing some of those scenarios return to print in the Starter's box set though. 

But anyway, no new edition planned, and no new edition needed at the moment.

Edited August 14, 2019 by TrippyHippy

[Numtini]

15 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

Indeed, you could buy the Keeper's book, skip the players book and buy Pulp Cthulhu instead, if you were in that way inclined. 

This is actually my recommendation to newcomers. 

[Lordabdul]

17 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

As such, you don't need the Player's book, it just gives more player characer options. Indeed, you could buy the Keeper's book, skip the players book and buy Pulp Cthulhu instead, if you were in that way inclined

One thing to note is that it's called "The Investigator Handbook", and not "The Player's Handbook". It's not any more for players as, say, a hypothetical "1920s Weapons Handbook" or a bestiary book or whatever. And actually, an early version of the book had the subtitle "A Core Game Book for Players" -- I'm pretty sure it was removed because it was causing more confusion along the same lines.

So yeah, lots of games are not like D&D and lots of games have core books divided in various numbers (up to 5 books! hello Unknown Armies! is that the record?), but I do understand that the CoC book titles are not great. Just remember there's only one core book -- everything else are optional sourcebooks and adventure modules. Easy!

Edited August 14, 2019 by lordabdul

[stadi]

17 hours ago, lordabdul said:

One thing to note is that it's called "The Investigator Handbook", and not "The Player's Handbook".

In CoC "standard" Investigator = Player. So you could just as well call it "The Player's Handbook".

[Lordabdul]

31 minutes ago, stadi said:

In CoC "standard" Investigator = Player. So you could just as well call it "The Player's Handbook".

Nope, "investigator" == "player character". From the core rulebook:

In Call of Cthulhu, each player takes the role of an investigator, someone whose mission is to unearth hidden secrets, etc...

So it's really the "Characters' Handbook" so to speak. And I mean, sure, I'm splitting hair, and I totally understand that it's still confusing and all that... but I also imagine that, for Chaosium employees who have been dealing with this CoC-specific vocabulary for several decades, it probably made sense at the time 😁

Looking into it more, I also realize that, although an Investigator-focused sourcebook of some kind has been in print since 1993, it was called "The Investigator's Companion" in pretty much all editions of CoC until the most recent one. I'm going to theorize that replacing "Companion" with "Handbook" made things more confusing than not... maybe we'll get some funny behind-the-scenes story from @Mike M for why they changed the title? 😅

[Lordabdul]

(now that I think about it, adding "Keeper Ruleboook" on the main book is also new, it didn't use to have this...)

[Ursus Maior]

On 8/5/2019 at 2:34 PM, BigJackBrass said:

A new edition of any game, as opposed to a new printing with minor corrections or updates, ought to be done with a strong specific goal in mind. That can be different for the publisher than for the consumer, of course. At the moment I'm not sure that there would be an obvious benefit and direction for an eighth edition to take. The 7th seems to be doing well enough and I've certainly heard no rumours about its imminent demise.

Absolutely this. While CoC might evolve in the future - destination unknown - we do have a version appealing to different player wishes, it's Pulp Cthulhu. So, with two systems under the current edition, any 8th edition would need to revise both rule systems. That makes it a) somewhat more daunting as a case (capital needed) and b) somewhat less appealing, sine you need to win over two types of fans.

Plus, any future edition needs to come up with ideas for baseline Cthulhu and Pulp. And I'm not seeing anything on the horizon there. This isn't D&D or your cash cow miniature game that redefines itself completely new every five years. No, CoC hasn't changed much since its inception, it always remained a BRP system and there is only so much deviation possible; similar to GURPS or Rolemaster etc.

[stadi]

5 minutes ago, Ursus Maior said:

Absolutely this. While CoC might evolve in the future - destination unknown - we do have a version appealing to different player wishes, it's Pulp Cthulhu. So, with two systems under the current edition, any 8th edition would need to revise both rule systems. That makes it a) somewhat more daunting as a case (capital needed) and b) somewhat less appealing, sine you need to win over two types of fans.

Plus, any future edition needs to come up with ideas for baseline Cthulhu and Pulp. And I'm not seeing anything on the horizon there. This isn't D&D or your cash cow miniature game that redefines itself completely new every five years. No, CoC hasn't changed much since its inception, it always remained a BRP system and there is only so much deviation possible; similar to GURPS or Rolemaster etc.

Yes, a new edition is probably too soon but as I mentioned above I could live with a new printing.

Regarding "normal CoC" and Pulp, for me those are the same. The differences are minimal, you can sum them up in a paragraph or two. Then you have the talents, but those are also a couple of pages max. Pulp is on one hand a setting, but we have a lot of those and then it's a rule variant (couple of paragraphs + talents). The rule variants you can use for whichever setting you want to and however you want to. Most (or all?) new releases have the Pulp options included, independent of the setting. I really like this, I hope they won't change this.

[g33k]

On 8/13/2019 at 1:39 PM, seneschal said:

...  Personally, I think that updating Sherlock Holmes to the 1930s or whatever the current year is hasn’t worked well...

But which Sherlock?

The one starting Smaug & Bilbo is quite modern...