Why would I use breakout abilities?

[Jakob]

Reading the QW SRD, I stumble again over a question I remember from having when I read HQ: Why would I use breakout abilities from keywords, instead of just using my points to raise the keyword itself? raising the keyword affects all possible breakout abilities, after all.

The only reason that comes to mind is that sometimes using just the keyword might be considered a stretch; but within the spirit of the rules, it should only be a stretch if another character has a more specialized trait covering the obstacle. This seems like a relatively unlikely case ...

[soltakss]

4 hours ago, Jakob said:

Reading the QW SRD, I stumble again over a question I remember from having when I read HQ: Why would I use breakout abilities from keywords, instead of just using my points to raise the keyword itself? raising the keyword affects all possible breakout abilities, after all.

Some people apply penalties for use of odd things in the Keyword, so a Breakout prevents it from being a stretch.

Also, having a Breakout means that you can put points into the Breakout as well as the Keyword, getting a double effect.

4 hours ago, Jakob said:

The only reason that comes to mind is that sometimes using just the keyword might be considered a stretch; but within the spirit of the rules, it should only be a stretch if another character has a more specialized trait covering the obstacle. This seems like a relatively unlikely case ...

It depends on the setting.

If I am in a superhero game and have Hawk as a keyword then it might be reasonable to expect Hawk to fly. However, if I want to use Divebomb as a Hawk-like thing and another character has Dive as a Keyword, then it is reasonable that it would be a stretch for me, otherwise I am as good as the other character's keyword. By taking Divebomb as a Breakout it becomes as important as the other character's keyword.

[David Scott]

Keywords are general, Breakouts are specific. Look at them as a specialism. An army could be made up of Soldier 18s, generic warriors. But with a breakout of Sniper +1, it changes a generic soldier into a specialist.

On an extreme range shot - Soldier 18 only has generic gun ability, so depending on the distance it might be a -3/-6 penalty or even forbidden. A sniper specialises in long range shots so get a Keyword +1 to their shot.

Breakouts add colour to your characters:

Pilot 1M

Melee 18

vs

Pilot 1M

            +1 X-Wing

Melee 18

            + 1 Light Sabre

vs

Pilot 1M

            +1 Reckless flying

Melee 18

            + 1 Pistol

vs

Pilot 1M

            +1 Tie Fighter

Melee 18

            + 1 Light Sabre

 

 

[Jakob]

@David Scott I get the "color" thing - but I'm still not sure how much sense breakout abilities make mechanically.

Let's say you have the keyword "Jedi", which usually encompasses the abilities to wield a lightsaber, to force-throw objects and to be very suggestive. You should be able to use all these abilities without stretching the Jedi keyword.

Now, lets say you start with the Jedi keyword at 17 and want to put a total of 4 points in it.

You could end up with this:

Jedi 1M

 

or with this:

 

Jedi 18

Lightsaber Fighting +1

Force-Throw Objects +1

Being Suggestive +1

 

Mechanically, Jedi 1M just looks more appealing.

 

If I were to come up with an idea for how to handle breakouts, I'd rather treat it as a zero-sum game: You can add points to a breakout ability by taking other, negative breakouts.

That way, you could end up with:

 

Jedi 1M

Lightsaber Fighting -2

Force-Throw Objects -1

Being Suggestive +3

 

This might even be better to add colour, because you can also define certain elements that you are not as good at as might be expected.

[Ian Cooper]

It's quite possible to define a breakout ability that not everyone who has the keyword has. For example I might take

Pilot 17

   Bullseye Womp Rats +1

Now not every pilot learned their skills on Tatooine, so not every Pilot keyword can get Bullseye Womp Rats. Now, if someone has that skill and is attempting to run the trench on the Death Star I would give them a lower TN, because the genre says that farmboy flying skills save the day in Star Wars.

[Jakob]

Thanks @Ian Cooper! I didn't think it this possibility.

That, combined with making sure that use of your keyword won't be considered a stretch under certain circumstances, is probably enogh incentive to put a few points in breakouts.

EDIT: I should have read the whole SRD before asking - I just noticed that, when buying advancements, there's a significant difference between keywords and breakouts, with keywords being more expensive to raise ... so that's mechanical incentive right there!

Edited April 26, 2020 by Jakob

[Revilo Divad Of Dyoll]

20 hours ago, Jakob said:

Now, lets say you start with the Jedi keyword at 17 and want to put a total of 4 points in it.

You could end up with this:

Jedi 1M

 

or with this:

 

Jedi 18

Lightsaber Fighting +1

Force-Throw Objects +1

Being Suggestive +1

Hi!

Your math is wrong - it takes 2x as many HP to increase a keyword as an ordinary ability (HQ2 at p.57).

Thanks,

David.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Revilo Divad Of Dyoll

[Jakob]

4 minutes ago, Revilo Divad Of Dyoll said:

Hi!

Your math is wrong - it takes 2x as many HP to increase a keyword as an ordinary ability (HQ2 at p.57).

Thanks,

David.

Questworld 3.2 doesn't give a higher cost for raising keywords at character creation - that's what I was going by; however, it seems that they are more expensive to raise later on with Hero Points.

[Joerg]

When creating my HQ Glorantha character that earned me playtesting credits for HQG, I mainly put points into my runes (which double as magic abilities) and then broke out some useful everyday abilities out of these runes. This gave me a bunch of abilities not usually associated with the magical identification, at an ability score well above the beginning scores you get for a new ability.

And then, these would be raised whenever I would raise one of my rune abilities.

But then I went for an animist Orlanthi rather than your typical initiate. My main memorable feature was a spirit owl that would be visible to everybody.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Joerg