Alternative Mythic Earth Campaigns

[Nozbat]

Hey people

I'm interested in discussing ideas for a Mythic Earth campaign possibly along the idea of some of Poul Anderson's novels (Broken Sword, Three Hearts and Three Lions, Merman's Children)

I've flirted with various ideas in the past but never quite got it together to go further than write a few ideas down

I'd be happy to collaborate if anyone else is interested

[10baseT]

I love mythic Earth myself. When i'm not running an established RPG world, i'll use mythic Earth for my setting... there's alot of good stuff out there and you can plop your own down too. Anyway, good luck and have fun. Cheers, G

[Guest Vile Traveller]

Welcome to the forum, Nozbat! 👋

Sticking to the Poul Anderson novels is a great idea, it sets clear, limited boundaries, and should thus be achievable. For simplicity I would make things a bit more overt, as The Broken Sword has the fantasy elements as a sort of invisible overlay on the mundane world, and Three Hearts and Three Lions is an altogether separate alternate universe. The Merman's Children is more what I'd go for, where the fantastic exists alongside the mundane, but it is fading from public consciousness or deliberately being erased.

Maybe an easy way to get going would be to start small, with adaptions of species from the Monsters of Legend books. Some of those could end up as books by themselves, such as Elves and Trolls. The latter would be much simpler to write up if you stick with the 3H&3L version (basically AD&D Trolls), though I personally prefer the more developed Troll society of TBS. Those two would also need their own magic systems. Creatures like the Swanmay or Selkie would be easier and more modular. Modular has another advantage in that people can use them in other games right away, no need to wait for the whole setting to be fully fleshed out.

Like all ideas for community projects you'll have a tough time getting it going or keeping up momentum, but I hope people will chime in. You might spread the word around other forums, e.g. Mongoose or the RPG Pub and the like, to get additional interest.

Perhaps a start would be to come up with a distinctive name. Mythic is already used by Mythras and BRP. I dunno, Legendary Earth?

And then, a list of which books are being used for source material? There are other contenders, e.g. A Midsummer Tempest, though I don't think I've read most of them.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Vile Traveller

[Nozbat]

Thanks both for your replies. I appreciate it. 

I guess I've had these ideas for many years and have collected lots of source material from historical texts and fantasy genres without actually ever doing anything about it. Mainly, I guess because real life got in the way with family and a busy job. I've now begun to have more time and with lockdown the time to actually begin playing RPGs again after a hiatus of 25 years.

In the past I have run several alternate earth campaigns involving several generations of characters (Vikings, Celtic and an aborted Mycenaean Greek campaign based on Robert Graves writings)

As a oldtime player its interesting to see how the game has evolved and I have a lot of catch-up to do

You're right Vile.. the first thing is to set boundaries and decide on an epoch and how a magical world interacts with the 'real' world. My historical interest has always been Heroic age Greece, Celtic Mythology (being Irish), Greco-Roman/ Carthaginian and Scandinavian/ Rus/ Slavic history. Its way too broad and although each area has had my interest for 30 odd years I need to make decisions.

There is a lot of thinking to do but equally its good not to re-invent the wheel but possibly collaborate and add to existing work

I'll think about it and post some stuff as I do for comment

 

 

[soltakss]

Have a look at http://www.soltakss.com/alternateearthrq/AESupplements.html for a list of the Alternate/Mythic Earth supplements that I am aware of.

Although I don't think I have read the books, looking at Wikipedia, RQ3 Vikings and Mongoose's Vikings of Legend would be a good fit for The Broken Sword .

Merrie England or Stupor Mundi might be a good fit for Merman's Children.

A mix of the Vikings and Mythic Britain supplements might work for Three Hearts and Three Lions.

What I would do is to use various sources as a general base of the campaign. They seem to be set earlier than many of those supplements, between Mythic Britain and Vikings, but they are similar enough that you should be able to use them as source material without any problems.

 

 

[Nozbat]

thanks Soltakss... I'd looked at your stuff earlier...or possibly last night which I remember perusing years ago... and maybe even swopped a few emails with you

I was thinking possibly about the Hansa period in Northern Europe.. or Early Middle Ages in laypersons terms:

The Hanseatic League (also known as Hansa, Hanse, 1356-1862 CE) was a federation of north German towns and cities formed in the 12th century CE to facilitate trade and protect mutual interests. The league was centred in the German town of Lübeck and included other German principalities which established trade centers ranging from Kievan Rus through the Netherlands, Scandinavia, and Britain.

[lawrence.whitaker]

7 hours ago, Nozbat said:

thanks Soltakss... I'd looked at your stuff earlier...or possibly last night which I remember perusing years ago... and maybe even swopped a few emails with you

I was thinking possibly about the Hansa period in Northern Europe.. or Early Middle Ages in laypersons terms:

The Hanseatic League (also known as Hansa, Hanse, 1356-1862 CE) was a federation of north German towns and cities formed in the 12th century CE to facilitate trade and protect mutual interests. The league was centred in the German town of Lübeck and included other German principalities which established trade centers ranging from Kievan Rus through the Netherlands, Scandinavia, and Britain.

We have a supplement in the works - Guelden - that is in part based on one of the Hanseatic League cities.

[Nozbat]

3 minutes ago, lawrence.whitaker said:

We have a supplement in the works - Guelden - that is in part based on one of the Hanseatic League cities.

Excellent... I was thinking that the Hansa Factory set-up could be the source of many interesting scenario plots given its ubiquitous presence throughout northern Europe and allow engagement with those cultures that I find interesting..

The only sad bit about your post is...'part based'...lol

[Nozbat]

Lawrence, I was looking at your Guilds, Factions and Cults supplement as a possible template for the Hansa but the League was more akin to a nation state in that it could declare war, defend its borders, bully the Holy Roman Emperor and conclude extremely favourable trade treaties without even referring to the 'Art of the Deal'. 

I was thinking how to conceptualise the Hansa. For those Hansestadts in the League it brought freedom, wealth and power that challenged Emperors, Kings, nobility and the Church, created  powerful burghers, possibly started a (bourgeoisie) democratic movement and arguably ended feudalism. For those cities, states and countries that were outside the Hansa, it must have been viewed with dark trepidation and given the often unfavourable trade treaties that they were forced to sign, they must have been viewed as the Evil Empire. 

However there is a lot of source material to suggest that some countries still found it beneficial (ie The Steelyards in London until it was sacked at the request of English Wool Merchants in 1469) or others that found them despotic (ie the Bergen Factory) and others that were willing to battle them for the right to the shifting Herring fisheries (Kalmar Union).

I assume Gülden will be a Stupor Mundi supplement? Can you tell me how you are viewing the Hanseatic League? (thats if it's not a state secret)

 

 

 

[lawrence.whitaker]

1 hour ago, Nozbat said:

Lawrence, I was looking at your Guilds, Factions and Cults supplement as a possible template for the Hansa but the League was more akin to a nation state in that it could declare war, defend its borders, bully the Holy Roman Emperor and conclude extremely favourable trade treaties without even referring to the 'Art of the Deal'. 

I was thinking how to conceptualise the Hansa. For those Hansestadts in the League it brought freedom, wealth and power that challenged Emperors, Kings, nobility and the Church, created  powerful burghers, possibly started a (bourgeoisie) democratic movement and arguably ended feudalism. For those cities, states and countries that were outside the Hansa, it must have been viewed with dark trepidation and given the often unfavourable trade treaties that they were forced to sign, they must have been viewed as the Evil Empire. 

However there is a lot of source material to suggest that some countries still found it beneficial (ie The Steelyards in London until it was sacked at the request of English Wool Merchants in 1469) or others that found them despotic (ie the Bergen Factory) and others that were willing to battle them for the right to the shifting Herring fisheries (Kalmar Union).

I assume Gülden will be a Stupor Mundi supplement? Can you tell me how you are viewing the Hanseatic League? (thats if it's not a state secret)

 

 

 

No, it's nothing to do with Stupor Mundi (although it's a great little supplement). It's a Mythras book, and intended to be a deliberate fantasy version of a European city state founded in extensive commercial interests that have brought it considerable power. I can't talk too much about it as I'm not the author, and it's a way from publication. But it is in the works.

[g33k]

On 7/19/2020 at 6:53 AM, lawrence.whitaker said:

... intended to be a deliberate fantasy version of a European city state founded in extensive commercial interests that have brought it considerable power...

So like... a "fantasy Hanseatic city" in rather the same way Fioracitta (sp?) will be a "fantasy renaissance-Italian city"?

Directly inspired-by, but not specific or historical?

[lawrence.whitaker]

7 hours ago, g33k said:

So like... a "fantasy Hanseatic city" in rather the same way Fioracitta (sp?) will be a "fantasy renaissance-Italian city"?

Directly inspired-by, but not specific or historical?

Precisely. 

[Nozbat]

8 hours ago, g33k said:

So like... a "fantasy Hanseatic city" in rather the same way Fioracitta (sp?) will be a "fantasy renaissance-Italian city"?

Directly inspired-by, but not specific or historical?

It would be wrong to consider the Italian communes, or indeed the Lombard League, similar to the Hanseatic League. There are fundamental differences in the way they operated. The Italian communes were in most part individual states that sometimes combined due to external threat (mostly the Holy Roman Emperors desire to exert his authority) but for the most part they fought each other (consider Venice, Genoa and Pisa vying for dominance of trade and seapower in the Mediterranean). Their ability to work together was very limited.

The Hansa, on the other hand, placed an emphasis on co-operation and a sleight against one city was a sleight against all. Their ability to achieve their end without recourse to declaring war or rebellion from the temporal powers was remarkable. They never declared war on one of their own cities but used temporary suspension of rights to bring errant cities back into the fold.And a hefty fine.

The desire for freedom in the north of Europe was more a desire to allow commerce and wealth to flow instead of being subject to the petty whims of barons, assorted greater nobility, feuding statlets and the Church that often preyed on merchants, townsfolk and peasants. The desire for freedom from the predatory nobility and the strict confines of feudalism was no doubt ignited by commerce with the Italian communes and their experience but was also influenced by the fact that they saw they had more rights, freedoms and privileges in foreign countries they had trade deals with than they had when they returned home to their native cities. Something was always going to give in that.

 

[lawrence.whitaker]

2 hours ago, Nozbat said:

It would be wrong to consider the Italian communes, or indeed the Lombard League, similar to the Hanseatic League.

 

G33k's not trying to draw that comparison; what he's asking is if the Guelden supplement is similar in inspiration, approach and execution to Fioracitta (ie, a fantasy version of a European city), which it is.

[Nozbat]

4 hours ago, lawrence.whitaker said:

Precisely. 

 

12 hours ago, g33k said:

So like... a "fantasy Hanseatic city" in rather the same way Fioracitta (sp?) will be a "fantasy renaissance-Italian city"?

Directly inspired-by, but not specific or historical?

My apologies g33k.. the keyword, which I ignored, in your post is 'fantasy'.. in which everything is possible

[lawrence.whitaker]

One thing I forget to mention was your reference to 'Guilds, Factions and Cults' as a basis for modelling one of the HL states. You're right, in that it's the wrong scale. Instead, you may find RQ Empires, the old Mongoose title (if you can find a copy) to be a better fit, which aims to model things at a state level. It uses similar mechanics to GF&C, and is also compatible with Legend and Mythras to a reasonable degree.

[nclarke]

There's two versions of Empire. One (I have a softbound copy for MRQi) and one for MRQII (I have the hardback version) they are IIRC slightly different in content.

[Nozbat]

15 minutes ago, nclarke said:

There's two versions of Empire. One (I have a softbound copy for MRQi) and one for MRQII (I have the hardback version) they are IIRC slightly different in content.

I assume neither is in print ?

[nclarke]

Not as far as I  know, mostly as Mongoose no longer has a licence to print anything related to Glorantha. You should be able to find either/both as second hand as that's where I got mine (at Continuum convention IIRC).