WFRP using Elric! Rules or BRP

[NickMiddleton]

Found a transcription from “the Web of Chaos” chapter in Rogue Mistress in my files:

Quote

Rogue Mistress Fire Arms

The firearms developed and used in the world of Albyon resemble the smooth-bored, muzzle-loading flintlock weapons common to our Earth of a few centuries ago. These guns use a kind of black powder made from the blending of two different plants common to Albyon, flashroot and firethorn. Because of the unstable nature of the powder, it degenerates quickly in worlds more chaotic than Albyon. In the Young Kingdoms, for instance, (using the formula described in the Introduction) the powder has a 20% chance per day of becoming inert and useless.

A partial list of black powder weapons found on this plane is given below.

 

Weapon              Shots/        Damage       Range      AP       

                            Round                               (feet)

Pocket Pistol      1/6              1D6+2            15             3

Holster Pistol     1/6              2D4+2           40             5

Musket                1/6              2D6+2           80             8

Blunderbuss      1/6              4D6            30/60/100  0

 

Loading these weapons is a complex and painstaking procedure. How fast a character may perform this action is dependent upon his skill level. The character's skill level also affects the chance of fumbling when firing the weapon.

 

Black Powder Weapon Reloading Table

Skill                        Ability

01-50%     Reloading takes 6 rounds and a tumble occurs whenever 90-00 is rolled.

51-70%     Reloading time is reduced to 5 rounds and fumbles occur when 96-00 is rolled.

71-80%      Reloading takes 4 rounds and fumbles occur on rolls of 99-00.

81%+          Reloading takes 3 rounds and fumbles occur only on a roll of 00.

 

Fumbles If, when firing a weapon, a character rolls a fumble, roll 1D6 and consult the following chart.

 

Black Powder Weapon Fumble Chart

D6         Result

1-2       Misfire. The weapon does not fire. The weapon must be carefully cleared of the old charge before reloading. Double the time it normally fakes to reload the weapon.

3           Hangfire. The weapon appears to have misfired but 1 D10 strike ranks later, it unexpectedly goes off. The result of this depends on what the character has done with the weapon in the meantime.

4           Underload. The weapon fires but too little powder was used. The shot, underpowered, goes astray.

5           Backfire. Ball is packed too tight and igniting powder flashes back through touch hole. Weapon fires normally but user takes 1 D3 points damage from powder burns and is blinded for 1D10 rounds.

6          Overload. Too much powder was used. The weapon kicks badly, sending the shot astray. The user takes 1 point of damage and, if he fails his Balance roll, is knocked to the ground.

 

Firearm Descriptions

The pocket pistol, as the name implies, is a very small weapon, capable of being concealed in the folds of a coat or cape. Some expensive (but not necessarily well-made) pocket pistols have two barrels with a mechanism for switching the flintlock between the touch holes of the bar-rels. Weapons of this latter type can be fired on two succes-sive rounds but require double the reloading time. The holster pistol has a longer barrel which greatly in-creases the weapon's range and power. It is typically carried in a leather holster on a horse's saddle. The musket is a long-barreled weapon fired from the shoulder, similar to a rifle. The blunderbuss is similar to a shotgun and fires pellets in a spreading pattern. They are not capable of piercing armor. Their damage also decreases as the range increases but, when firing at any range greater than 20 feet, the weapon is capable of hitting more than one target. Anyone standing within three feet of the target will suffer damage as indicated by the range. The character uses this weapon at his normal skill level at any range above point-blank and below 100 feet, damage decreasing past 30 feet and 60 feet. Any distance beyond 100 feet the character's skill is halved, beyond 200 feet, the skill is quartered, etc. 

 

[Michael Stockin]

Sweet TY

[Mugen]

On 6/11/2021 at 7:48 PM, Atgxtg said:

Sometimes. I'd say the damage bonus is significantly different but most weapon damages are the same or similar. How much of obstacle that is is another matter. For the most part an experienced GM can look over the weapon tables, compare similar weapons, and get a rough idea of what the approximate damage would be in  Elric! Even if a GM just ported over the weapon stats directly the values wouldn't be too far off, as BRP and Mythas use similar hit points and armor values. I think most weapons are within a point or two, on average.

Yes, but when that point is added to a d8, it means between 100% and 12.5% more (or 50% to 11% less), which is significant. Especially in a game where a human being can take 12 of them on average, and a 1 point difference means death instead of unconsciousness.

Although using BRP damage values in Mythras would certainly have more impact on the characters than the opposite.

[Atgxtg]

9 hours ago, Mugen said:

Yes, but when that point is added to a d8, it means between 100% and 12.5% more (or 50% to 11% less), which is significant. Especially in a game where a human being can take 12 of them on average, and a 1 point difference means death instead of unconsciousness.

Statstically yes, but in actual practice I don't think there would be too much fuss over !d8+1 vs 1d8. It's not like going with 3d6 or some such. Keep in mind that he is going iwith SIZ+CON for hit points (double that of BRP) so increased damage would have been a possibility.

9 hours ago, Mugen said:

Although using BRP damage values in Mythras would certainly have more impact on the characters than the opposite.

I'm not so sure. It's been a few incarnations since I looked at Mythras hit point and damage rules (i.e. back when it was Mongoose RuneQuest) but characters used to be able to soak a lot more damage, especially if they had a high resilience skill, than their BRP counterparts. 

[Mugen]

10 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

I'm not so sure. It's been a few incarnations since I looked at Mythras hit point and damage rules (i.e. back when it was Mongoose RuneQuest) but characters used to be able to soak a lot more damage, especially if they had a high resilience skill, than their BRP counterparts. 

Location hit points are in a 3-7 range, which means even 1 damage point is very important.

It also depends a lot on the locations you hit. 2 attacks on the same limb are very likely to have more impact than 4 attacks on random locations, even if the total damage is lower. And all you need to hit twice the same location is a combat special effect (providing you can deal damage on that successful hit, of course).

[Michael Stockin]

Thanks everyone.

Another question...

WFRP has a Cool stat which is used for Fear Tests.
What have people done for fear tests with this system?

I know CoC has SAN but that is equal to POW and thus yields only a small % of ever passing, something which does not fit well for me in The Old World.

[NickMiddleton]

3 hours ago, Michael Stockin said:

Thanks everyone.

Another question...

WFRP has a Cool stat which is used for Fear Tests.
What have people done for fear tests with this system?

I know CoC has SAN but that is equal to POW and thus yields only a small % of ever passing, something which does not fit well for me in The Old World.

Err, SAN is 5 x POW, so pretty high chance to make make for PCs with decent POW. IIRC there’s a version in the BGB.

As a simple alternative, set a a “fear factor” on scale similar to stats (ie core 3-18) and have PCs match stat of choice (INT for rational defence; POW for will power etc) against it on resistance table. Calibrate as feels appropriate.

[Michael Stockin]

2 minutes ago, NickMiddleton said:

Err, SAN is 5 x POW, so pretty high chance to make make for PCs with decent POW. IIRC there’s a version in the BGB.

As a simple alternative, set a a “fear factor” on scale similar to stats (ie core 3-18) and have PCs match stat of choice (INT for rational defence; POW for will power etc) against it on resistance table. Calibrate as feels appropriate.

Is it?
Ah my bad, that makes sense, I will do the average of INT and POW I reckon and then *5.

[Mugen]

On 7/13/2021 at 7:26 PM, Michael Stockin said:

Is it?
Ah my bad, that makes sense, I will do the average of INT and POW I reckon and then *5.

You could also use twice the sum of both characteristics, as INT has a higher average value than POW.

Or any formula that would avoid the hurdle to first devide a sum, then multiply it by 5. It's not complex, but I feel it's an unnecessary complication.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Mugen

[Nikoli]

Hi Michael,

 

I’d be very interested to hear how you get on. I love The Old World, mostly the first edition version and some of the second. I have some fondness for the system, but on the whole I prefer Magic World. 

For races, I think the Middle Earth document on this site has some great stats and options that fit the WFRP first edition feel, especially for elves and dwarves. 
 

For professions, Magic World has a nice way to model those with experience being D8 instead of D6 for professional skills, and one automatic increase too. I think adding in a bank of talents from wfrp 2 might be good to give it more flavour. I would also consider a possible generic skill linked to each profession, like ‘Bounty Hunter’, that perhaps might work like a profession specific knowledge role or for various less-than-obvious skill rolls, or which interacts with skills by conferring a 1/5th bonus to profession related skills. So tracking game is one thing, but tracking a bounty activates the bounty hunter bonus. (A bit like the alignments maybe.) I only mention it as it means something of the unique profession, independently of the shared skills across professions, can come into the game. Like a speciality or an advantage. That might help give the professions a bit more of a presence in the game as opposed to just being reflected in skills that two different professions might share. So now a bounty hunter bargaining and a merchant bargaining can be quite different, depending on the nature of the bargain (e.g., a mark’s location versus a crate of wine).

 

I suspect your main challenge will be magic. My own view would be to use Rolemaster spell lists as skills and to divide the spells into the colleges. Though again I prefer the first edition that was less stylised with the magic and only brought in colour magic at higher levels. Adjusting to the second edition magic never felt right for me, mainly because I didn’t like the options and felt they overlapped with the clerics too. 
 

For clerics, the Rolemaster channeling companion is great, as it divides spell lists by ‘sphere’, like war, so you have your various god’s reflected there. 
 

I’d love to know how you get on and would be interested in what you design for your game. Good luck!

 

Nikoli

[Questbird]

It's not Elric! or BRP but there's currently (2021-08-06, and lasting for another 11 days) a bundle of holding offer for Warlock! https://bundleofholding.com/index/current/name/Warlock. It's a terrible, unsearchable name for an obscure RPG. However, I bought it and it is quite a pleasant amalgam of WFRP, Dragon Warriors(?) and Fighting Fantasy (the "best of British"), though mostly the former. All the classic professions and advanced professions are there, with a skill system that could translate quite easily to BRP/Elric! You roll a d20 and add your skill and if you get 20+ you succeed. As @Nikoli was hinting at, each profession has its own 'profession' skill as well as others. It has an ok looking magic system too. Maybe worth a look for your research?

[Michael Stockin]

So I have a PC who is a wizards apprentice with this as their initial background:

 

"So Petra comes from a small town, close knit community, big family. I think granny was the local wise woman/healer but no one was ever stupid enough to straight out accuse "witch" because why would you do your town dirty like that. She does basic medicine and you make sure you don't cross her. Nothing illegal going on here.

Anyway Petra spent a lot of time at granny's house growing up and developed a knack for learning some basic healing stuff. Her family wasn't well off but enough to make sure the kids got a basic education. Petra is the brightest of the lot with a quick mind and seems to be filled with questions about everything around her.

So then there's war and Petra's town is hit bad. And one of her brothers never  comes back. And a bunch of people have terrible injuries and young Petra and her old granny don't have enough knowledge between them to save them all. Petra has read every book in granny's house, including the ones hidden away under the bed that are definitely, 100% books of magic. She's hooked, and she wants to know more, but she still doesn't know enough to save all her townsfolk.

Official story is she wants to go study medicine so if this ever happens again she doesn't feel so helpless watching people die. 

The actual story is she's filled with a burning rage, has no respect for rich folk sending commoners off to fight stupid fights, and if anything like this ever happens again she'll raise an army of the fucking dead if she has to protect her loved ones. 

So she's off to be a "physician's apprentice" but she's got her eyes and ears wide open for anything that can help further her craft."

 

She is a witch (wizards apprentice) but is keeping it secret for now.

I have given her d4+3 petty magic spells and they have no real need to be converted as they don't really affect stats.
I am doing starting Magic Points = POW.
For Willpower tests I will do POW vs POW on the resistance table. 

This will change how it works compared to WFRP, but I feel that the mightiest wizard will be able to cast more powerful versions of the same spell than a novice.
If Gandalf tried to cast a mind control spell on me compared to that nobber from Krull who kept turning himself into a pig, I am pretty sure I know whose spell would be easier to resist.

For MP I am keeping it the same cost.
MP will regenerate at 2 per hour, so right now her POW 0f 16 and 16 MP means she will be back up to full MP after a nights sleep.

Not thought too much about higher level spells, I will worry about that nearer to the time. 

 

[Lloyd Dupont]

26 minutes ago, Michael Stockin said:

I am doing starting Magic Points = POW.
For Willpower tests I will do POW vs POW on the resistance table. 

That's what BRP does ! ^_^
I added 1 special skill (called it magic sensitivity) which give you 1MP per 10% and 1MP spell cost reduction (one time bonus) at 100%

Edited August 6, 2021 by Lloyd Dupont

[Michael Stockin]

That is an idea, maybe each spell cast can add X% to that skill and for each 10% in that skill you get the things you mention, +1mp and spells cost 1 mp less.

 

 

/off to ponder

[Lloyd Dupont]

30 minutes ago, Michael Stockin said:

That is an idea, maybe each spell cast can add X% to that skill and for each 10% in that skill you get the things you mention, +1mp and spells cost 1 mp less.

actually that's a bit much... even 2 or 3MP cost reduction is a huge boost.. give them sparingly, most of the time on magic wand / staff or the like!
Most useful spell (depends on how you will cost them of course, but if I take BRP cost, most useful spell cost like 3~4, so 1MP cost reduction make a big difference you see)

you don't need to increase the skill any faster than any faster than any other skill... Magic user already have a huge edge in this game.. If I wanted more magic though.. I would give a bigger MP bonus. maybe 2 or 3 per 10%...

Edited August 6, 2021 by Lloyd Dupont

[Nikoli]

@Questbird, I’ve just bought the Warlock bundle and also Warpstar, thanks to you! 🙂 Warlock looks very nice. I read online that a possible conversion to percentile is skill 1 is 10% (because 19 and 20 is a success on a D20), and every number after is +5%. So 10 is 55%. It looks like a fine system as is. Warpstar also looks great. I’m very interested to see how it works. I like simple but not too simple. 
 

Warlock doesn’t have any different mechanics for the races (communities), so my inkling is to use something like the career skill. I would probably use Fate Points as per WFRP, and fortune points as per WFRP 2e, but only allow fortune rerolls for race-relevant things. An elf shooting a bow, for example, or a Dwarf doing an endurance test. Maybe a table of relevant adjectives can be drawn up related to the races, like ‘keen-eyed’ or ‘doughty heart’ etc. Humans are ‘adaptable’ or ‘survivor’ or such. Just some way to get the races involved as ignoring them altogether is too simple.

I think the magic is interesting, though I’m not crazy about everything being about scrolls (easily fixed) or about priests and wizards having the same spells. I’m not too sure what to do about that. I’ll read a little more. There might be a fix in a later compendium. 
 

Thanks for bringing it to my attention!  🙂 

Nikoli

 

 

 

[Questbird]

4 hours ago, Nikoli said:

@Questbird, I’ve just bought the Warlock bundle and also Warpstar, thanks to you! 🙂 Warlock looks very nice. I read online that a possible conversion to percentile is skill 1 is 10% (because 19 and 20 is a success on a D20), and every number after is +5%. So 10 is 55%. It looks like a fine system as is. Warpstar also looks great. I’m very interested to see how it works. I like simple but not too simple. 
 

Warlock doesn’t have any different mechanics for the races (communities), so my inkling is to use something like the career skill. I would probably use Fate Points as per WFRP, and fortune points as per WFRP 2e, but only allow fortune rerolls for race-relevant things. An elf shooting a bow, for example, or a Dwarf doing an endurance test. Maybe a table of relevant adjectives can be drawn up related to the races, like ‘keen-eyed’ or ‘doughty heart’ etc. Humans are ‘adaptable’ or ‘survivor’ or such. Just some way to get the races involved as ignoring them altogether is too simple.

I think the magic is interesting, though I’m not crazy about everything being about scrolls (easily fixed) or about priests and wizards having the same spells. I’m not too sure what to do about that. I’ll read a little more. There might be a fix in a later compendium. 
 

Thanks for bringing it to my attention!  🙂 

Nikoli

 

 

 

 

You are welcome 😄. If you bought the full bundle, one of the Companion books has different careers for non-human communities.

[Nikoli]

@Questbird I did! I got the full bundle.
 

It’s almost perfect. 

I would likely make the tens units in stamina a damage bonus and a toughness/soak, so a monster with 30 would get +3 to damage and -3 to damage done, as a kind of size/scale modifier like WEG Star Wars. A character would have +1 and -1, so they’d cancel out generally on the PC scale. That way a dragon is not just a lot of stamina, but can splat you and take a lot of attacks. The rule where a successful attack is always -1 stamina means it won’t make things just go plink. I like it when large creatures FEEL large.

My main issue is the wizards and priests using the same spells and the same scroll mechanic. It lacks any distinction, which is odd. Warpstar uses half the career skill as the maximum number of spells (glyphs), without scrolls, so I might use something like that for priests. So a priest with 10 in Priest can receive up to 5 prayers (spells) and cast them from memory. I guess I’ll keep the resource pool of stamina, though I was thinking of Luck for Faith. I frankly don’t like the scrolls either. I might allow spells in memory, but the character needs to study a grimoire each night for an hour or lose one spell. 

I really wish one of the compendiums did something more with the priests. It’s the one thing I don’t find satisfying. Having said that, though, I suspect the old WFRP 1e spells could be used with a little tweaking.

If you have any thoughts about making the initiates/priests feel more like priests, do let me know! 
 

N.