0 HP -- And Cures Mundane and Miraculous

[creativehum]

I'm finally running the Great Pendragon Campaign! I'm having a great time, the players are having a great time. (None of them have played King Arthur Pendragon before, but are loving it.)

Last night, 490 AD, we ran the Battle of Lindsey. Tension all around. One knight got cocky and didn't divide his attacks to make sure he crit one of his opponents. He took a bad wound, and then another one on the next round. He was knocked down to -5 hp.

His companions hauled him to the back of the battle where the lover of one of his companions with a high First Aid made two rolls (one for each wound). One roll netted 2 points of healing, the second 3 points. So he was now at zero hp.

The rules say that a character at negative of 0 hit points will die if he is not restored to positive hit points by midnight of that day. 

The knight's companions are desperate to save him. He is mortally wounded, on death's door... and yet he is still alive. He only needs one more hit point!

The question is: Thoughts on what they might do in the remaining hours of this day? 

Mundane methods of healing allowed by the rules have been tapped out, as far as I can tell. (Yes?)

So, magic!

Somehow the companions need to breath a bit of life into their companion. How might they do this? (TO BE CLEAR: I know I can come up with something. I'm simply brainstorming with y'all.)

Are there any interesting adventures along these lines folks are familiar with?

Finally, of the four knights who have played so far, three are Pagan, one is Jewish. A fifth knight is joining the game next week, and she will be Christian. So all sorts of religious options are available, as well as straight up magic. 

I'm assuming witches and other mundane and magical creatures can come into play.

Thoughts?

[Tizun Thane]

10 hours ago, creativehum said:

So, magic!

First, do not overuse magic. As a GM, I would let him die to teach a lesson. War is messy. He should have been more careful. Uther's times are brutal, and magic is very rare. Thousands will die this day.

Usually, in this case, my players would pray. It's cute. With a crit, some miracle could occur, if I feel the mood.

With O PV, maybe one of your players have some healing potion? +1d6 HP and he is good again? Maybe some NPC otherwise?

If you want to have magic to save him, go for a Merlinus ex machina. Merlin agrees to save him, but asks for a gift. A future unspecified gift, from all of them.

Otherwise, maybe the comatose character will met in his dreams his old mother (but she is weirdly young and beautiful again). She will says to her son he is going to die. But there is a way to save him. She have connections in the Other World. A terrible way, with a terrible price to pay. Does he say yes? A few years latter, the King of Sauvage will kidnapp all his children, or some other curse.

Anyway, don't lose your time with sidequests. Others PKd will die, and soon. It's the nature of the game.

[SaxBasilisk]

1 hour ago, Tizun Thane said:

First, do not overuse magic. As a GM, I would let him die to teach a lesson. War is messy. He should have been more careful. Uther's times are brutal, and magic is very rare. Thousands will die this day.

My philosophy is to give the players what they want - but structured so that serious consequences arise from it. I think there's a broader question here about philosophy. If you let this PK survive, surely others will be seeking the same solution later, and you want to be ready for that.

1 hour ago, Tizun Thane said:

If you want to have magic to save him, go for a Merlinus ex machina. Merlin agrees to save him, but asks for a gift. A future unspecified gift, from all of them.

This may be the most elegant GPC solution. In "Sword Lake," Merlin has the power to heal injured knights, so he may be a known quantity to the group in that regard. All he asks for in return is "two hours of each of your time." He collects in 492. That both takes the healing power off the board, and makes the consequences severe enough that all the PKs think twice about seeking this solution.

Another possibility: They can only find someone who has the power to put the PK in a magical slumber, not to heal them. You ask the player to roll up another PK for now, while the players try to figure out how to fix it. Let them pitch you solutions, and pick one that will be the most entertaining/troublesome. Maybe they'll decide they like the new PK better.

I've been researching some information about holy wells in Britain. That could be a mechanism for healing. Maybe the well is in the depths of Cornwall, where many people still hate Uther's knights due to what happened to Gorlois...

Edited May 25, 2022 by SaxBasilisk

[Morien]

13 hours ago, creativehum said:

Mundane methods of healing allowed by the rules have been tapped out, as far as I can tell. (Yes?)

Technically, by the rules, if it is a Sunday and not noon yet (unlikely, given the big battle), he would get natural healing at Sunday noon, equal to the Healing Rate (KAP 5.2, p. 150). However, since I think that is a stupid rule, I simply count days from the wounding itself, and thus in our campaign this would not help, unless the knight in question has a healing rate of at least 7 (unlikely, but technically not impossible). Also, I tend to count the healing from any previous wounds prior to the battle itself, so they would be unlikely to provide a buffer, either, even if they existed.

Pretty much everything else has already been said.

[Tizun Thane]

16 minutes ago, Morien said:

Technically, by the rules, if it is a Sunday and not noon yet

I use the sunday at noon rule. I love it. It's part of the spiritual world, from a christian pespective , and I think it's hilarious. My Players always ask what day they are, and they are so happy to learn it's saturday. 

However, there is little chance that the battle of Lindsey was fought on a sunday, and remember the guy needs chirurgy anyway.

1 hour ago, SaxBasilisk said:

If you let this PK survive, surely others will be seeking the same solution later, and you want to be ready for that.

Exactly. That's why my advice was "let him die". It's not mean. It's the world. If you want to set a harsh world, it is the way. In a harsh world, being heroic is truly heroic. 

 

[David 2]

I agree with other posters. I always prefaced my groups with: "In Pendragon, you will die. How do you want to live?" They all had backup characters, which could join the group right away ("Suddenly, a mysterious knight enters the glade!"). I've found that it makes rpgs really exciting when there are real consequences. And the feeling of accomplishment for surviving is thus amplified. That said, as GM, you are free to have a magician, living saint, or fairy magically or miraculously heal players, if you think it's in the best interest of the story or group dynamics. And Tizune Thane presents a great way to limit such interventions, though it does place onus on the GM to come up with the payment plan. 🙂

[Morien]

There is one good argument for pulling the Merlin Ex Machina here... Which is that these are presumably the first generation PKs, so you lose a bit of the oomph if one of them drops this early in the campaign. (Granted, that is why I ensure that the starting PKs have a couple of younger brothers to carry on the family legacy.) The problem is that if you save one PK's life, why not give all of them one saved-from-death card? Why does that one PK get preferential treatment?

[SirUkpyr]

14 hours ago, creativehum said:

I'm finally running the Great Pendragon Campaign! I'm having a great time, the players are having a great time. (None of them have played King Arthur Pendragon before, but are loving it.)

Last night, 490 AD, we ran the Battle of Lindsey. Tension all around. One knight got cocky and didn't divide his attacks to make sure he crit one of his opponents. He took a bad wound, and then another one on the next round. He was knocked down to -5 hp.

His companions hauled him to the back of the battle where the lover of one of his companions with a high First Aid made two rolls (one for each wound). One roll netted 2 points of healing, the second 3 points. So he was now at zero hp.

The rules say that a character at negative of 0 hit points will die if he is not restored to positive hit points by midnight of that day. 

The knight's companions are desperate to save him. He is mortally wounded, on death's door... and yet he is still alive. He only needs one more hit point!

The question is: Thoughts on what they might do in the remaining hours of this day? 

Mundane methods of healing allowed by the rules have been tapped out, as far as I can tell. (Yes?)

So, magic!

Somehow the companions need to breath a bit of life into their companion. How might they do this? (TO BE CLEAR: I know I can come up with something. I'm simply brainstorming with y'all.)

Are there any interesting adventures along these lines folks are familiar with?

Finally, of the four knights who have played so far, three are Pagan, one is Jewish. A fifth knight is joining the game next week, and she will be Christian. So all sorts of religious options are available, as well as straight up magic. 

I'm assuming witches and other mundane and magical creatures can come into play.

Thoughts?

First - it is perfectly ok to let him die - but Morien makes a very good point about "first generation".

In my game - the PKs have used prayer a few times - but as they say - "G-d works in mysterious ways" - so if they have at least a 10pt success or a crit - then... priest comes by with a healing salve (heals 1d3pts - 1d5 on a crit) which he will use to heal the PK - *IF* the others agree to a small service to the church.... OR one of the PKs notices a nearby herb which is known to help staunch wounds (but requires a chirurgery roll to use).... OR a strange (Fae) knight comes up to offer his aid - for a favor.... OR use Merlin - cuz it's just fun for PKs to owe Merlin a favor!.... OR seeing dead father/mother/grandpa.... OR whatever you come up with.

Do be ready for other players to want to use a trick - but ALWAYS at a cost.

Have fun!

Sir Ukpyr

ps: Do you know where your Towel is? Happy Towel Day!

[Morien]

Now, I don't recommend this so much in a group campaign (unless the other players are Discworld fans), but it might be interesting to steal a page from Terry Pratchett's Mort. Death's apprentice flubs a mission to collect a Princess' soul, killing her assassin instead. The problem is that the world thinks that she died, so the narrative inertia causes people to act as if she had. Decorating the palace in black, ignoring her unless she is practically slapping them on the face, and so forth.

Might be good for some laughs or a pretty creepy faerie curse, especially if that 'un-dying' starts to spread around the 'dead' PK's manor, too... Headless chicken running around, etc...

[Voord 99]

From my new favourite KAP GM resource:

https://insearchofholywellsandhealingsprings.com/2013/04/19/holy-wells-and-healing-springs-of-lincolnshire-an-overview/

The other PKs have to get water from a nearby holy healing well by midnight, or the PK dies.  They have to overcome some challenge, obviously.  Maybe grab one of the faerie creatures from the back of the GPC to be the guardian of the well.  Or relocate the Maid of Stevington Well from the Forest Sauvage section in the Anarchy Phase to one of these Lincolnshire wells and run that adventure now.

[creativehum]

Hello all and thank you for the thoughtful, lengthy replies.

Even as I typed that first post, I was ambivalent about all this. The other night, when the knight in question was rushed behind the lines for healing, and the two First Aid rolls failed to save him by one point, it was the time we normally end the game, I was exhausted, and it was difficult for me to bring my A-game for my thinking.

This is the first PK death, I'm fond of the character, and no one wanted to see him go. 

But the fact is, no one saved Aurelius Ambrosius, no will will save Uther when he takes his mortal wound, and Arthur is doomed to die as well. Why should one vassal knight, beloved as he may be to us, be spared death's final door?

I also came across this from the 5th edition after I posted that first post:

Quote

Healing: Magic, usually in the form of salves, bandages, or potions, can be used to hasten the healing process. The deadly nature of combat may tempt Gamemasters to use this often, but such temptations should be ignored. Magical healing is very rare in the literature, and overuse will reduce its wonder and cause players to have false hopes.

Ultimately, as everyone above has pointed out, if if I leave death's door open this time, what happens the next time it is about to slam shut on a fallen PK. The game is the game, it is deadly, and no matter how hard Maiden Adwen tried to save the knight, the fact is, she came up short. He's still alive, but unconscious, his breath shallow, motionless in his shattered state. "He will die by midnight," she says.

And that's that. 

With the quote above, along with all of your recommendations, I know I'm doing the right thing by sending out an email to tell the player to get one if his family members made and ready for knighthood.

Again, thank you all!

[Morien]

6 hours ago, creativehum said:

He's still alive, but unconscious, his breath shallow, motionless in his shattered state. "He will die by midnight," she says.

I think that is the right call, except do not keep him unconscious. Let him get his final words in, to speak with his comrades one more time, etc. He should not die between sessions, unmourned and forgotten.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Morien

[creativehum]

Oh, without doubt.

[piersb]

In my GPC, while some knights have indeed been mown down in their prime without support, there was a case when a PK was about to die and another said aloud "I'll do anything to help her live."

Bold words, if the Fairy World is close.

A trade was offered and accepted; a healing salve in the here and now, in exchange for a favour to be granted in the future, in the Forest Sauvage...

Edited May 26, 2022 by piersb

[Mugen]

As a matter of fact, the only time I used the "Merlin card" was after my PCs killed King Pellinore before he meets Arthur...