Do Gloranthans Dream of Rune Powered Sheep?

[JRE]

I would assume that dreams are not subconscious filing of waking experiences but an actual contact with the otherworld in Glorantha.

Therefore, the contact depends on the otherworld where you are. In a theist culture, your deity will send you information in dreams, and make sure you are protected from interference from others. Surely each pantheon will have their own dream-keeper, usually someone with shamanist traits, but I would expect all deities can protect their followers most of the time, as well as wyters and cult spirits.

Dreams are probably more complex among the monotheists, as they are open to many more messages, and spirits are always more suspect and less friendly. Another job for the wizards, and maybe an additional explanation why they are so urban, as there is protection in numbers. Good dreams will come from ascended masters and friendly spirits, bad dreams from krjalki and demons. More or less like many religions do in the Real World.

The existence of a deity of dreams will cause the existence of dream magic, as in the East Isles, and where it is not known that magic will be exotic and weaker, as it will be opposed by the established powers, but it should still work, but weaker.

Shamans, of course, dabble in dreams, believe in them, use them, fear them, and use them to keep others in awe of their power.

But unless someone invested a lot of power in dream magic, it is mostly background noise.

[Akhôrahil]

Glorantha has surprisingly little dream magic, I would say, especially for a world where some dreams can manifest as actual dragons.

It's interesting to speculate whether you can in fact visit some Otherworld in your dreams. Shamans at the very least?

The prospect of bringing stuff out of you dreams, of dream-questing, and so on, seems fertile.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 11/19/2022 at 5:47 AM, mfbrandi said:

I don’t know when/where this originated, but it made it to her entry on the Well of Daliath:

According to Beer with Teeth at least, it is not just a pot, but a food pot.

Perhaps the symbolism relates to Xiola Umbar's generosity. To an Uz giving food would be the most attractive act of generosity, thus the food pot.   The other Uz gods do not seem to especially embody that virtue.  Of course the healing aspect counts too, perhaps more for us humans than for the Uz.

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Perhaps the symbolism relates to Xiola Umbar's generosity.

Perhaps, and perhaps the mouthless face says, “I am not eating, so you can.” But I like to think it says, “I have a secret, and I am not telling.” Also that we will keep trying to link her to the other pot deities — Ginna Jar and (maybe) She Who Waits — who have secrets, too. Maybe there is a clue in Trollpak somewhere.

[Darius West]

On 11/25/2022 at 6:49 AM, mfbrandi said:

Perhaps, and perhaps the mouthless face says, “I am not eating, so you can.” But I like to think it says, “I have a secret, and I am not telling.” Also that we will keep trying to link her to the other pot deities — Ginna Jar and (maybe) She Who Waits — who have secrets, too. Maybe there is a clue in Trollpak somewhere.

The mouth of a pot is under its lid.

Edited June 3 by Darius West

[Goldennose]

Our version of Dream Magic used by Waking Magicians is described in Sironomandidi: Hero Wars in the East Isles Vol 4.

[Aelex]

Interesting stuff! Just to add to the thickening plot, throwing this two bits from the bestiary out as another angle:

"The dragon religion teaches and proves that existence is a web of illusion. The illusion is maintained by immersion into the five elements, each of which is associated with one of the five perceptions. Through practice of Right Action, dragonewts can cleanse themselves of the webs of illusion that restrict their spiritual growth and eventually liberate their psyches to join the eternal Dance of Pure Being which is the thought of Ouroboros."

"True Dragons, where they are known, are said to be asleep. Indeed, their physical state appears to be that of sleep. But the boundaries of a True Dragon and the rest of the world are less well-defined than that of a human’s, and the consciousness of the dragon impinges upon the waking world of mankind. Thus, the dreams of the sleeping True Dragons manifest in the world, bringing about dream dragons."

Edited June 4 by Aelex

[Ynneadwraith]

On 11/24/2022 at 4:51 PM, Akhôrahil said:

Glorantha has surprisingly little dream magic, I would say, especially for a world where some dreams can manifest as actual dragons.

It's interesting to speculate whether you can in fact visit some Otherworld in your dreams. Shamans at the very least?

The prospect of bringing stuff out of you dreams, of dream-questing, and so on, seems fertile.

 

On 6/4/2024 at 1:59 AM, Aelex said:

Interesting stuff! Just to add to the thickening plot, throwing this two bits from the bestiary out as another angle:

"The dragon religion teaches and proves that existence is a web of illusion. The illusion is maintained by immersion into the five elements, each of which is associated with one of the five perceptions. Through practice of Right Action, dragonewts can cleanse themselves of the webs of illusion that restrict their spiritual growth and eventually liberate their psyches to join the eternal Dance of Pure Being which is the thought of Ouroboros."

"True Dragons, where they are known, are said to be asleep. Indeed, their physical state appears to be that of sleep. But the boundaries of a True Dragon and the rest of the world are less well-defined than that of a human’s, and the consciousness of the dragon impinges upon the waking world of mankind. Thus, the dreams of the sleeping True Dragons manifest in the world, bringing about dream dragons."

Take these two in combination: what if dragons are the gods of sleep and dreaming, and draconic magic is the dream magic of Glorantha.

Added to the whole 'differences between illuminations' thread, and it fits a little further. Draconic mystics spend more and more time asleep in their dream-world/trance/meditation, distancing themselves from the world (though influencing it through the magic their dreams conjure). Draconic mysticism as a take on lucid dreaming, where first you learn to take control of the mythic dreamscape, before then learning to let go again and disappear up into the aether (or not, and going on a wakeful dreaming rampage). Sufficiently advanced draconic mystics never wake, but sleepwalk through their worldly existence.

Nysalorian illumination is learning that all of the world is an illusion made of masks upon masks upon masks (and thus you can be whoever you want to be). Draconic illumination is learning that the whole world is a dream (and thus you can be whoever you want to be), and can be woken from (thus disappearing).

Magic rains down from the holes in the sky-dome that dragons punch through, being absorbed into the minds of mortals when they are in their most draconic state (asleep and dreaming).

Got to get that deep REM sleep otherwise the dragons can't get into your brain and give you magic powers 😉 

Edited June 5 by Ynneadwraith

[Joerg]

How is deep meditation into a dream-scape different from discorporation into or through the Spirit World/Spirit Plane into more distant outer realms?

Temporary reality aka Illusion can be a powerful force, especially when backed up by the magic of masses of worshippers. The Vithelan experience of the Greater Darkness was obscured by the reign of Avanapdur, an illusionary entity powered by the masses whose presence outdid even the High Gods of Vithela, but which did not maintain continuity in direct contact to the Source.

But then again, how is that dissolution of Avanapdur different from Avanapdur achieving the final liberation, or oneness with the Source?

[Ali the Helering]

Could we regard communal HeroQuesting as a form of shared dreaming?

[mfbrandi]

On 6/5/2024 at 9:51 AM, Ynneadwraith said:

dragons are the gods of sleep and dreaming, and draconic magic is the dream magic of Glorantha[?]

Aren’t dream dragons supposed to be id monsters, per Forbidden Planet? If so, they are not manifestations of successful draconism but embarrassing signs of failure, no? Of course, power-gaming mystics may deliberately become failed mystics in order to accumulate superpowers.

I meditate. I hallucinate demons. Do I send them out to work for me, or do I press on and wait for them to disappear? 😉

[Darius West]

On 6/6/2024 at 5:43 AM, Ali the Helering said:

Could we regard communal HeroQuesting as a form of shared dreaming?

Sadly, I think everyone is awake while it happens.

[Ynneadwraith]

17 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Of course, power-gaming mystics may deliberately become failed mystics in order to accumulate superpowers.

Sounds about right!

Or, rather, people approach draconic magic from the angle of 'this is powerful magic I can use to knock the moon from the sky/wreck those pesky godlearners and never intend to learn the real philosophy in the first place. I'd argue they were never mystics to begin with, just powergamers cosplaying them.

8 hours ago, Darius West said:

Sadly, I think everyone is awake while it happens.

Surely that depends on how dreary the narration is 😉

Might be quite fun to play through that TBH. Communal heroquest, but people keep falling asleep partway through and you have to cobble the rest of it together before you doze off as well 😄