Publishing free BRP: considerations

[Ron Hale-Evans]

I've been thinking about the process of publishing a free, open version of BRP, once ORC has been finalized.

Clearly, we need to remove all Product Identity elements from the text. This includes trademarks like "Chaosium". It also includes the title of the book, "Basic Roleplaying"! What are we going to call the new book?

There are also some significant logistics, such as all the page numbers and cross references. A decent page layout program can help with those.

I recommend an open source program for layout, something cross-platform like Scribus. https://www.scribus.net/

It would be especially useful to be able to export to a reflowable format like EPUB as well as PDF. That way, it would be easier to read on ereaders like Kindle and Kobo.

Anyone else have some thoughts on this?

[Richard S.]

I believe Chaosium's said that they plan to do this already once they finish incorporating all the errata, publishing it as a free text-only SRD.

[g33k]

5 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

I believe Chaosium's said that they plan to do this already once they finish incorporating all the errata, publishing it as a free text-only SRD.

This is my understanding, too.

[Nakana]

Yea, there really isn’t much point. And GORE has been around for years anyway. You can even download it from this site I believe. 

[Ron Hale-Evans]

What is GORE?

 

[Ravenheart87]

It's a BRP clone from the dawn of the OSR movement.

[Ron Hale-Evans]

In open source software, which I think is analogous to our situation, there are things called distros and forks. A distro is a version of an operating system like Linux, distributed or published with a bunch of different optional software, often tweaked quite a bit for specific purposes. A fork is a bit like a distro, but even more radically changed from the original (I know this is not an exact definition -- please don't jump on my head :)

If someone were to create a distro or fork of BRP, let's say with a bunch of optional rules like d100-based characteristics instead of 3d6, a lot of internal stuff in the "text-based" "SRD" we are all expecting would change. Even merely adding or deleting a page here or there would change all the pagination and require new page numbers throughout. If you've been following the corrections thread, you can see it's tricky for Chaosium to keep tracking of page numbers properly, let alone a bunch of penny-ante operators like us. :) And that's just one issue.

Summary: If anyone intends to do any kind of mashup or remix of the BRP:UGE rules instead of sticking with the plain text dump we're anticipating, they have a lot of work ahead of them. Which takes us back to my first post in this thread.

And even if we're going to use the plain old text dump directly, we're going to need a new name, because "Basic Roleplaying" is a trademark of Chaosium. But that's the least of it.

[Nakana]

Sticking with your analogy, consider BRP Platinum as the released source code. 
 

you can take the text, modify what you want, and release the new thing under whatever name you want (and are legally able) to. 
 

if you change the core stats to be percentile based instead of 3d6 and release it as “d100 max” or whatever, you totally can. The rest of the system can remain unaltered. The only catch is that you in turn have to release “d100 max” under the orc license as well with the proper citations/credentials. You can’t make your system changes closed or proprietary. 
 

but you can designate specific IP (like world/settings) as off limits. 
 

Edit: the biggest distinction between BRP Gold (the old BGB) and the new BRP Platinum is that BRP Gold was legally closed source while BRP Platinum is open sourced (so to speak).  This is why it had to be republished under the new license. 
 

second edit: according to ORC, the new book as is - serves as the SRD. However, specifically what you’re asking for (which I think is raw text with no branding associated in it) I think will be released by Chaosium as a downloadable pdf at some point. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Nakana

[Ron Hale-Evans]

Thanks, Nakana. I think I understand the legal situation pretty well, having worked with a variety of free licenses before, and having worked for both the Free Software Foundation and the Linux Foundation professionally. I'm not asking for raw text with no branding. I expect that's what we're going to get anyway. What I'm trying to do is suss out the practicalities of what comes next.

[DamonJynx]

Forgive my ignorance but what is the point if Chaosium make the SRD (once corrections are made) freely available as an online resource? Wouldn't you be duplicating their work for no real beneft?

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, DamonJynx said:

Forgive my ignorance but what is the point if Chaosium make the SRD (once corrections are made) freely available as an online resource? Wouldn't you be duplicating their work for no real beneft?

It means that you can take any part of the text as-is and plug it into an RPG game that you are producing.  You don't have to rewrite any of the text and don't need retype the text by hand (since you can explicitly just copy-and-paste it into your work). 

[DamonJynx]

9 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

It means that you can take any part of the text as-is and plug it into an RPG game that you are producing.  You don't have to rewrite any of the text and don't need retype the text by hand (since you can explicitly just copy-and-paste it into your work). 

I understand that, but you'll be able to do the same with SRD, just copy and paste. The 'free' version will still need be released under the ORC and will need to have proper attribution to Chaosium. I don't think it's worth the effort of making those changes for no benefit when they can be done ad-hoc by creators wishing to use BRP as their core mechanic. Most games will still need some re-writing surely, so far, mine has been minimal.

[g33k]

4 hours ago, DamonJynx said:

Forgive my ignorance but what is the point if Chaosium make the SRD (once corrections are made) freely available as an online resource? Wouldn't you be duplicating their work for no real beneft?

I don't have a good sense for what @Ron Hale-Evans wants from his "Free BRP" project that Chaosium isn't producing.

Hypothetically, though, it could be useful to write a really-minimal stripped-down BRP (there's another thread attempting to formulate this).

Similarly, one might want to create a "BRP Sci-Fi" edition, cutting-away all mention of "Fantasy" & "Supers" elements, etc.  Or one might want to develop era-specific variants.

And so on, and so forth. 

There's a fair amount of "reinventing the wheel" that could be avoided if (for example) every "BRP Modern" creator didn't have to go through the same tedious bits of gruntwork to strip out the historical & far-future bits just to get to the parts relevant to their creation.

[Bahntah]

Any estimates on when the SRD might be out? Could take a long time, so earlier free BRP would be useful.

[jajagappa]

16 hours ago, DamonJynx said:

I understand that, but you'll be able to do the same with SRD, just copy and paste. The 'free' version will still need be released under the ORC and will need to have proper attribution to Chaosium. I don't think it's worth the effort of making those changes for no benefit when they can be done ad-hoc by creators wishing to use BRP as their core mechanic.

Yes, missed the original context and agree that I don't see any value of a "free BRP" vs. using the SRD. And if I was going to get BRP, I'd get the Chaosium product rather than something that appears as a knock-off.

[DamonJynx]

On 5/2/2023 at 2:59 PM, g33k said:

I don't have a good sense for what @Ron Hale-Evans wants from his "Free BRP" project that Chaosium isn't producing.

Hypothetically, though, it could be useful to write a really-minimal stripped-down BRP (there's another thread attempting to formulate this).

Similarly, one might want to create a "BRP Sci-Fi" edition, cutting-away all mention of "Fantasy" & "Supers" elements, etc.  Or one might want to develop era-specific variants.

And so on, and so forth. 

There's a fair amount of "reinventing the wheel" that could be avoided if (for example) every "BRP Modern" creator didn't have to go through the same tedious bits of gruntwork to strip out the historical & far-future bits just to get to the parts relevant to their creation.

As you say, the only benefit would be if there were specific versions for each setting type. Personally, I'd rather just stick to the BRP SRD when it's released and copy & paste what I need directly from the source. Each to their own.

[Ron Hale-Evans]

There's not going to be an SRD, just a copy of the book with trademarks, graphics, and so on removed.

The stripped-down BRP or BRPs for specific setting types or what have you: these are all versions of what I was talking about: hacks or mashups of the base BRP text.

What I've been saying is that new versions are going to be more work than just copypaste, unless you don't care about the result and merely want rough handouts for your players.

And if you want to publish your work, you can't even use the name "Basic Roleplaying" (for starters).

[MOB]

1 hour ago, Ron Hale-Evans said:

And if you want to publish your work, you can't even use the name "Basic Roleplaying" (for starters).

Yes, your book will need a different title. But you can say your book uses the BRP system, and use the logo:

[DamonJynx]

1 hour ago, MOB said:

Yes, your book will need a different title. But you can say your book uses the BRP system, and use the logo:

Fully what I am intending to do, mentioning only the company name and BRP, i.e: 

This guide assumes you have some experience with roleplaying games. If not, don’t worry there are plenty of resources online, just search “What is a role-playing game”, or better yet, head over to DrivethruRPG and check out the free preview of Chaosium’s, Basic Roleplaying: Universal Game Engine the very system that powers abcdefg! Even better, purchase your own copy through DrivethruRPG or from Chaosium direct (if buying direct from Chaosium, you get a discount coupon for the printed book!).

abcdefg uses a slightly modified version of Chaosium’s, Basic Roleplaying (BRP) – Universal Game Engine as its rules system. This system has been around for decades and has been used, with minor tweaks, for the majority of games published by Chaosium. It uses a simple percentage-based skill system where you need to roll under your skill to succeed.

 

[MOB]

5 hours ago, DamonJynx said:

Fully what I am intending to do, mentioning only the company name and BRP, i.e: 

This guide assumes you have some experience with roleplaying games. If not, don’t worry there are plenty of resources online, just search “What is a role-playing game”, or better yet, head over to DrivethruRPG and check out the free preview of Chaosium’s, Basic Roleplaying: Universal Game Engine the very system that powers abcdefg! Even better, purchase your own copy through DrivethruRPG or from Chaosium direct (if buying direct from Chaosium, you get a discount coupon for the printed book!).

abcdefg uses a slightly modified version of Chaosium’s, Basic Roleplaying (BRP) – Universal Game Engine as its rules system. This system has been around for decades and has been used, with minor tweaks, for the majority of games published by Chaosium. It uses a simple percentage-based skill system where you need to roll under your skill to succeed.

 

Sure. If you are basing your work on Basic Roleplaying: Universal Game Engine, you'll have to wait until the ORC license is finalised. If you're basing it on the now superseded BRP SRD, cite that (nb we will never rescind, decertify or modify this older license).

[DamonJynx]

@MOB I'm sure the ORC license will be in finalised by the time I'm finished!

[Ron Hale-Evans]

Thanks for the official word, MOB.

I guess I should shut up now and see how things shake out. :)

I certainly am grateful for Chaosium's liberation of BRP:UGE under the ORC license, anyway. I have been banging the drum on social media.

[Alliante]

On 5/3/2023 at 11:20 PM, MOB said:

Yes, your book will need a different title. But you can say your book uses the BRP system, and use the logo:

Is there any way Chaosium can provide us a high resolution (transparent) or a vector of this?

TIA!

Edited May 30, 2023 by Alliante
h's are hard to type I suppose