Eurmal structure?

[Manunancy]

8 hours ago, Ian A. Thomson said:

In the same way that Eurmal can be bonded to an Orlanthi and therefore not fk up the life of that Orlanthi and their compantions/clan, such a prayer by an initiated Lightbringer would not automatically lead to worse luck or good luck and a terrible consequence

The Eurmal bond isn't exactly foolproof - sooner or later the bond will slip and the trickster will bring trouble to his keeper. One mark of a good orlanthi chief is to keep his trickster long enough to have some use out of it (gender gets blurry with a trickster 🙂 ) but kick it out before it causes too serious troubles.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Manunancy

[Shiningbrow]

I think....

I would be very wary of allowing a player to be an Eurmali, because it's difficult to get right, and involves a very heavy amount of roleplay. (And that's not even talking about the very generic 'get kicked out of town' aspects)

Most Eurmali would be unlikely to need or want some of the OP spells (Lie being an obvious one), as that would mean having to take on a particular aspect of the god. I would make the player have to earn the spell, and that would mean having to use it as well (reasonably regularly*) in order to further the cult's ambitions. That would mean, if one wants to get the Murderer aspect spells, then surely the Eurmali must commit murder. If you're taking the Lie spell, then you need to be telling some whoppers that gets people (the more the merrier) really riled up (later). This is the "Yelm won't be rising tomorrow - he's going to spend a few days in the Underworld to woo the Goddess of the Dark" type thing. (Monrogh was obviously an Eurmali, and his Lie has continued on for a while!!!)

*The 'reasonably regularly' is important, and is an important aspect of the Trickster personality - they are not the most reliable, and plans tend to go awry when they are involved, because they simply don't care about your plans, and what's important is getting that 'joke' in now - not waiting til later when someone else thinks using that spell could be useful. They have very little self-control, and the future is... meh! So, I would expect most Eurmalis to be constantly running out of RPs. If it wasn't for their lack of self-control (and thus, 'wastage' of RPs), then the Eurmali cult could be very influential in the world... "I was on my way to tell Leika that Sartar himself had returned, but I thought it would be funny to see the local barman throw out all his 'poisoned' beer... heeheeheehe."

 

One other thing, though... the book says "Eurmal has countless subcults. Each shrine is associated with a Eurmal and provides additional special magic. Some common subcults include:" And then lists the various spells. Has anyone added to this list and created new spells??

[Darius West]

On 5/11/2023 at 12:44 AM, Squaredeal Sten said:

Writing up a hidden Eurmali NPC has led me to think about the cult:

Interesting ideas Sten.

On 5/11/2023 at 12:44 AM, Squaredeal Sten said:

It strikes me that with its famous disrespect for authority the cult of Eurmal will have neither priests nor rune lords.  As for who initiates new initiates and teaches the magic, it's god talkers.  Who are either self nominated, or forced to do it by their fellow cultists.  ? Perhaps they succeed to the shrine by killing the previous incumbent?  Or something less bloody? Perhaps at Sacred Time the shrine's wyter picks its priest? 

In RQ3 Trickster effectively only had acolytes imsmc. 

In the GOG Preview, there are trickster initiates and Priests.  We can assume the priests do the initiating.  In terms of initiation, I generally play that the Priest makes a demand that their would-be supplicant must fulfil in return for the status.  The would-be initiate is perfectly within their rights to twist the wording of the demand.  If they succeed, the initiator tells them where the nearest Trickster shrine is and they must go there and pray before the following Sacred Time arrives, gaining their first RP.  After that they lose their 1POW, gain 1RP  and are now an initiate of Trickster.  

On 5/11/2023 at 12:44 AM, Squaredeal Sten said:

If I recall correctly there are  hidden  Eurmal shrines which a Eurmal Initiate would have to tour to accumulate Rune magic.  There should? also be overt Eurmal shrines in Orlanth temples that are big enough that they don't just have a shrine to "all the Lightbringers". But there are no Eurmal temples, because temples would require a concentration of tricksters so large that it would break up out of its own contrariness and anarchy,  if they weren't first lynched or run out if town.

Good point Sten.  IMO any Lightbringer who has Trickster as an associated cult e.g. Orlanth, Lhankor Mhy and Issaries will all have an Eurmal shrine that provides the spell that is given to them.  While tempting for secret tricksters to pray there, they run great risk of discovery, should they do so. 

On 5/11/2023 at 12:44 AM, Squaredeal Sten said:

Presumably we will get a big revelation on this subject when the Cults of Runequest books are published.  For now please just give me an up or down check on these ideas.

The Preview Edition write-up says Trickster Temples are rare. Something of an understatement for a cult that also promotes the Hate Authority passion imo.  Travelling unlocks new spells from hidden shrines.  

On 5/11/2023 at 12:44 AM, Squaredeal Sten said:

Public Eurmali should dress as clowns and be generally safe from being killed. But be driven out if town frequently. At this point they are canon.

Fool's motley for public tricksters is a good idea.  This is likely what Trickster Priests look like.

On 5/11/2023 at 12:44 AM, Squaredeal Sten said:

I also  believe that there are secret Eurmalis. Who use their Trickster inclinations and magic for nefarious purposes such as robbery. piracy, and general greed and gain.  With lies. deception, a mix of good and bad deeds, and great swings in their fortunes.  A non Gloranthan model might be Long John Silver who is charming, friendly and helpful while he lies, schemes. leads a mutiny; and yet befriends and protects an honest boy (the protagonist in Treasure Island).  And who ends the story by being caught, then  escaping with considerable money.  

While this separation between public and secret tricksters is pretty much the only way they can function, the GoG Preview doesn't mention the issue, more's the pity.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Darius West

[Shiningbrow]

21 hours ago, Darius West said:

The would-be initiate is perfectly within their rights to twist the wording of the demand. 

If they don't try to twist the wording, then they can't become an initiate 😜

 

+

21 hours ago, Darius West said:

Fool's motley for public tricksters is a good idea. 

 

21 hours ago, Darius West said:

this separation between public and secret tricksters is pretty much the only way they can function,

I would suggest that each clan have their own, individual, clearly demarked Trickster, as they would be necessary for the Lightbringer rituals (as well as someone to mock the clan council).

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 5/16/2023 at 5:39 AM, Shiningbrow said:

......I would suggest that each clan have their own, individual, clearly demarked Trickster, as they would be necessary for the Lightbringer rituals (as well as someone to mock the clan council).

Each clan should have such an official Trickster.  But they may not, because one of: driven out and scapegoated; or the clan chief doesn't want to Bond one,  maybe got burned by the last one, and no one else in authority has volunteered to Bond one.  "Should" is a big word.

So you will have periods without one.  And yes the clan's magic may be weaker without a Trickster and their policy may be less imaginative, but how are you as a clan member going to prove that?  Tradition will be a powerful incentive to get one, but it's not automatic.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Reducing the quote

[EricW]

I can’t help thinking the trickster bond is a bit heavy handed. Tricksters should be subject to the lightbringer summons, but that’s limited duration?

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, EricW said:

I can’t help thinking the trickster bond is a bit heavy handed.

I don’t know, but I suspect that the handling of tricksters is still in flux. We are used to them being “crazy” and outside the law, but there is also a — more recent? — idea of them as a respected 1% of the community.

1% is a big chunk of the population: in my corner of the world, Buddhism only manages 0.5% nationally (and self-declared Pagans outnumber Jains 3 to 1), although, living in the capital, I get a skewed view of this — the non-Christian major world religions being overrepresented vs. the national picture.

So maybe the bond (and other drastic “solutions”) will be for the hard cases in the future — those not so much touched as battered by Trickster — with plenty of Eurmali safely loose in the community. Of course, soon the Lightbringers book will make my speculation ridiculous.

[David Scott]

3 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Each clan should have such an official Trickster.  But they may not, because one of: driven out and scapegoated; or the clan chief doesn't want to Bond one,  maybe got burned by the last one, and no one else in authority has volunteered to Bond one.  "Should" is a big word.

Given each clan has about 6 Eurmal initiates (see The Average Sartarite Clan), it shouldn't be too difficult to have one on the ring. For example one of the Hiording initiates is Gooseberry Sprig in Apple Lane, I use him for the clan ring as everyone know him (his cooking is known throughout the area). Tribal rings are the same, I use the Duke of Disorder from Leika's crown test, he comes and goes, but always knows when he's needed. City rings are easier as they are tribal confederations and can have more initiates. Jonstown's priest has been on the city ring for nearly two decades (per starter set),  

[Bifford]

The RuneQuest Roleplaying in Glorantha starter box has a Eurmal character as a pregen - Narres Runepainter. I started playing her two weeks ago.

Outwardly she portrays herself as a simple artist, a Runepainter, helping people be prepared for death and sending those who have died onwards safely post mortem.

She is also a thief and pickpocket, a trickster, and the way I am playing it, willing to do whatever she needs to in order to make her business better. I am doing it that she doesn't play tricks for tricks sake, but she'll do something in order to get away with fleecing someone in a deal, or getting into their home to scope the place out so she can later go back and steal a valuable trinket, that sort of thing.

I'm enjoying her so far.