Destined character examples and rule tweaks

[DreadDomain]

Tony Stark is another character who benefitted from the versatility of Savant, providing above 100% in all engineering, science and craft skills. I retroactively conceptualized Stark as an Epic level bloke getting boosted to World-Class once in the Iron Man armor.

On the sheet, I forgot to add Stark Industries (giving him an extra 10 Allotment points) and could/should have added more gear and a workshop as a base. I quite like how gear, vehicles, bases and organizations are done in Destined, there is a good level of definition and is quite easy to put together.

Looking at balance, I believe a fight between Iron Man and Colossus could be interesting, even if Tony is one level above. Of course, Iron Man would fight from a distance, making Col's life difficult, but Pyotr has good armor (8) and HP plus defense abilities to back it up. With 2d8 Blast, Iron Man would need to expand PPs to get through his armor and wear him down and Colossus could use his own boosts to absorb the impact. To get to him Colossus would need to throw stuff at him, a motorcycle, a car or something. On the receiving end of 1d10+1d12 damage Iron Man would need to use his shield (costing PPs) or he would get in trouble quickly. Even with his full servos on, Iron Man does not quite deliver as much damage as Colossus, but close.

Another comparison with Colossus is how much he can lift. With Enhanced Strength and a hard Brawn roll (67%), Colossus can lift 40 tons. He can push it up to 160 tons with Power Lift.

As a base, Iron Man can lift 4 tons, 16 tons with Power Lift. With his enhanced servos he could push up to 128 tons. His Brawn is not great at 32%, let alone 22% for a hard Brawn roll. Still, if he makes it, he could push above Colossus maximum lift. Maybe I should not have added a level of Strong Power to his Enhanced Strength.  Or maybe Colossus does not have enough lift.

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by DreadDomain

[Mugen]

On 7/20/2023 at 12:30 PM, DreadDomain said:

Velocity Damage

I understand that this is based on Mythras rules, but the physicist in me thinks this should be a product of mass/SIZ and speed (squared).

http://www.sjgames.com/murphys/img/new6.jpg

[DreadDomain]

4 minutes ago, Mugen said:

I understand that this is based on Mythras rules, but the physicist in me thinks this should be a product of mass/SIZ and speed (squared).

http://www.sjgames.com/murphys/img/new6.jpg

I don't disagree and might look further into it. That being said the base DM already takes SIZ into account and even the engineer in me accepts that in a 4 color game, it's more  important to emulate the genre.

For vehicles or objects, It could be as simple as limiting the damage done by the structure/armor/size. HERO does something similar using BODY and rPD as a limit of dice.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how you would convert it in dice of damage.

[Mugen]

14 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how you would convert it in dice of damage.

Maybe base the type of dice used for additionnal damage on SIZ ? That is, if the Wasp is launched at Velocity 150 (+3 dice), she'll deal +3 or +3d2 damage, whereas Colossus would do either +3d8 or +3d10.

[DreadDomain]

Here is Bruce Banner. I wonder who I will post tomorrow. For someone with a Powered Form, Destined suggest a character that is Street level, with no powers and only 75 points of characteristics.  I decided to give him 80 points if only because I wanted to give him a intelligence on par with Stark. I even sacrificed 45% of skills to get him Savant and instant specialization for Engineering, Science and Medicine.

[DreadDomain]

4 minutes ago, Mugen said:

Maybe base the type of dice used for additionnal damage on SIZ ? That is, if the Wasp is launched at Velocity 150 (+3 dice), she'll deal +3 or +3d2 damage, whereas Colossus would do either +3d8 or +3d10.

Not a bad idea. What would be the progression then? I changed the table to make the damage inflicted a bit more reasonable compared to STR+SIZ, Blast and, you know ballistic missiles 😉

[Raleel]

30 minutes ago, Mugen said:

Maybe base the type of dice used for additionnal damage on SIZ ? That is, if the Wasp is launched at Velocity 150 (+3 dice), she'll deal +3 or +3d2 damage, whereas Colossus would do either +3d8 or +3d10.

You’d want to determine a die scale. You have relatively few die sizes for that scale. maybe humans start at a d4?
 

I’m imagining breaking this with a growth and speed guy

[DreadDomain]

Yea, I think we might just be over thinking this. SIZ is taken into account into the damage modifier. Realistic? Hopefully not, it's Four Color.

[Bilharzia]

Quote

Yea, I think we might just be over thinking this

[DreadDomain]

Here is a big one, The Hulk! I will be honest; I was a bit concerned when I started putting this one together. Would "Expanded" Destined pull it off? I think it did. But I did trade a lot of skills and allotment to get more power slots. And I exceeded the max Limits significantly (12 over 7 at World-Class).

This Hulk is tough. More HP than Thor and Superman. His upper limit of armor and damage (when enraged for 3 turns) is also above the other two heavy hitters. But that is the thing. Some of his powers and increasing over time (3 rounds) when he is enraged, and his Brawn and Endurance go up to 150%.

For Hulk, I have reskinned Flight as Superleap. With Stratospheric jump and 3PP on Strong Legs, he can jump a distance over 12 km. His max lift when calm is 640 tons, when fully enraged, 5,120 tons. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by DreadDomain

[DreadDomain]

For Hulk, I should have added that if something triggers it and an Enraged roll (70%) is succeeded, he will hulk out, unlocking various boosts like Armor-Up, Tireless and Amped-up (bonuses to Brawn, Endurance, Willpower, Intimidate and Perception). It also unlocks 1 level of Strong Power for each of Close Combat, Enhanced Strength and Inherent Armor and one level for each will be added each round thereafter for a maximum of 3 levels.

 It means that his armor and damage depends on his emotional state:

Calm: 2d8+1d10/L, Armor 4

Enraged (round 1): 3d10/L, Armor 6

Enraged (round 2): 2d6+2d10+1d2/H, Armor 8

Enraged (round 3): 2d8+2d10+1d4/E, Armor 10

Fully enraged Hulk dishes out on average 22-23 hits which I think balances well, if he had to battle himself, with his HP, Armor of 10 and his defensive boost. It does enough damage to make it significant and make the player think about spending PP to reduce it or keep it for something else. Decisions, decisions...

Now consider the Tank Test with Hulk. At first, it would work similarly than with Colossus (described above) except that he has more HP to absorb damage but with Superleap, he would get to the tank much quicker. He could open up with a leaping attack on the tank, which would destroy its armor (Sunder). Once on the tank, he would total it (0 HP) with another 2 blows (depending how enraged he is) or he could lift it and throw it. If fully enraged, he can throw the tank about a 100 meters. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by DreadDomain

[DreadDomain]

18 hours ago, Bilharzia said:

Hey Bil, I love GURPS, it's one of my favorite systems to be honest and I guess Mythras scratches that same itch for me. Both are mechanically well designed and internally consistent. They also "make sense", as rules feels "right and credible". Of course GURPS has so much more than Mythras but Mythras does a lot of things just... simpler (not quite the word I am looking for). And as shown in Destined, it scales up much better. There really isn't a lot of things I would change in Mythras.

[DreadDomain]

Here is Thor, the God of Thunder, created at, guess what, Godlike level. Even at that level, I had to sacrifice 90% of skills and 40% of Allotment to get more power slots. Even then, I blew the maximum limit budget (15 over 7).

With Mjolnir, or his Lightning Strike, Thor inflicts a lot of damage that Hulk overtakes only when fully enraged. He has better armor, unless the green giant is enraged but not as much HP, but close. He is however a more skilled fighter. He is also stronger than calm Hulk (2,560 tons) but not as strong as enraged Hulk.

With Mjolnir, he can fly at high speed (mach 2) but also swirl the hammer to create a defensive barrier. He can obviously attack in melee, but also throw it very short range (reach 2) returning immediately or throw it (thrown) and call it back next turn (Quick Draw). Finally, he can call forth a lightning strike for a mass 3d10 of damage (it takes a turn and cost 1PP) which can be boosted with Armor Piercing and Detonate. With 26 PP, Thor could pump a lot of PP in it. As an example, 1PP for the Lighting Strike (17 hits) and 4 to 10 PP for AP would smack Hulk quite hard. It could be effective against calm Hulk but not against enraged Hulk who could then spend 2 to 4 PP on Nigh Invulnerability.

Finally, he has a good Elemental Control creating quite a bit of trouble to weaker opponents.

Edited August 18, 2023 by DreadDomain

[Bilharzia]

8 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Hey Bil, I love GURPS, it's one of my favorite systems to be honest and I guess Mythras scratches that same itch for me. Both are mechanically well designed and internally consistent. They also "make sense", as rules feels "right and credible". Of course GURPS has so much more than Mythras but Mythras does a lot of things just... simpler (not quite the word I am looking for). And as shown in Destined, it scales up much better. There really isn't a lot of things I would change in Mythras.

The two systems definitely appeal to a similar type of player. What I have noticed is the GURPS people tend to think "what's the point?" when they are looking at Mythras, and while Mythras players might have an interest in the GURPS supplements the system is not appealing at all. Whenever a call for more realism comes the "Mythras should be GURPS" poster comes to mind ... because that's a siren call coming from the GURPS side of the brain.

Sorry for messing with your thread! Your takes on these supers characters are very entertaining by the way.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Bilharzia

[DreadDomain]

15 minutes ago, Bilharzia said:

Sorry for messing with your thread! Your takes on these supers characters are very entertaining by the way.

No, no, not at all. I totally got what you meant (especially since I am a fan of both systems). And thanks! I find building characters in Destined quite interesting (and much easier than creating supers in GURPS).

Like I said, I am not trying to break it but at the same time, it does seem to balance quite easily. When it comes to the superhero gaming, I come with a strong HERO/Champions bias. I have tried many other super systems and they never stacked up to Champs in my book. So far Destined seems to hit a sweet spot between verisimilitude (being d100/Mythras based), high level of customization and ease of creation. Not as powerful and complete as HERO but easier to manage. 

[Bilharzia]

Out of interest what is your preferred edition of Champions?

[DreadDomain]

6 hours ago, Bilharzia said:

Out of interest what is your preferred edition of Champions?

That is a tough one. While for GURPS I see 4th as a general improvement over 3rd, even if I loved 3rd, I do not find HERO evolution so clear cut.

I do not like all that it had done but I generally choose 6th, if only because it is the latest edition, but 4 and 5/5R are absolutely fine.

[DreadDomain]

Here goes the Man of Steel himself, Superman, built at Cosmic level. The challenge with Supes is how powerful he is in a broad range of powers. I sacrificed 150% of skills to add an extra 5 power slots. I had to add 8 levels of Strong Powers to his Enhanced Strength to give him a decent level of lift and damage (1d3+2d10+1d8/E). I also used Blast with Variable Effect to represent his Heat Vision 3d10/E with Armor Piercing and Sunder - OR - Strong Breath 3d10/E with Radius 3 and with an automatic Bash SFX but it does only half of real damage, and it is short range. Excluding Boosts, they cost 2PP to activate (which explains why he generally uses his fists).

Instead of buying both Enhanced Speed and Flight, I created a Flight boost to his Enhanced Speed. With is he can run or fly at a top speed of 96,000 km/h (60,000 MPH). According to DC Adventures his to speed is 64,000 MPH.

Oh, and under gear, you will find the Fortress of Solitude!

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by DreadDomain

[Mugen]

On 7/28/2023 at 12:25 PM, DreadDomain said:

Yea, I think we might just be over thinking this. SIZ is taken into account into the damage modifier. Realistic? Hopefully not, it's Four Color.

It's not a matter of "realism", but rather of suspension of disbelief. 🙂

I was just expressing the fact that it would bother me if mass was not a more important part of the equation.

I didn't mean you should change the rule to please me. 😉

Edited July 30, 2023 by Mugen

[Atgxtg]

On 7/27/2023 at 6:08 AM, Mugen said:

I understand that this is based on Mythras rules, but the physicist in me thinks this should be a product of mass/SIZ and speed (squared).

http://www.sjgames.com/murphys/img/new6.jpg

What might help here would be to treat speed the same way we would treat a characteristic, and then it could be used in place of STR to get a damage bonus. 

Based on the Mythras damage bonus progression each doubling of speed would mean +5 to the SPD on the table. So if, say SPD 5 was 30 then you would get something like this:

Move	SPD		Move	SPD
15	0		960	30
17	1		1103	31
20	2		1267	32
23	3		1455	33
26	4		1671	34
30	5		1920	35
34	6		2206	36
40	7		2533	37
45	8		2910	38
52	9		3343	39
60	10		3840	40
69	11		4411	41
79	12		5067	42
91	13		5820	43
104	14		6686	44
120	15		7680	45
138	16		8822	46
158	17		10134	47
182	18		11641	48
209	19		13372	49
240	20		15360	50
276	21		17644	51
317	22		20268	52
364	23		23281	53
418	24		26743	54
480	25		30720	55
551	26		35288	56
633	27		40535	57
728	28		46563	58
836	29		53487	59