Revisiting Hospitality

[Bohemond]

On 12/26/2023 at 3:25 PM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Disagree.  If the Tribal Leader or King of Sartar arrive in Apple Lane, the Thane would still offer Hospitality, right?  I doubt that it becomes an issue.

If you have actual Gloranthan counterexamples, that would be interesting.

The thane would have a duty to host the king because he derives his office from the tribal king. So it wouldn't follow the same rules as hospitality between two strangers. 

[Sir_Godspeed]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:39 PM, Darius West said:

That is a really good point.  You're right.  On reflection, I don't think they would. 

At best they may have a "Before Time" story within their Grey Age mythology about the Gods coming to visit, but at best the current situation would only include a servant of the deity coming to visit and report back.  While the Divine Stranger may have been a motivation for hospitality in Earth mythologies, it really doesn't fit the Gloranthan paradigm.  Well spotted Bohemond.

I dunno man. Partly I like the trope so much I'd like to make special accommodations for it, but also partly I think the Compromise could include these visits if it's already part of their pre-existing actions and patterns - especially around Sacred Time or Holy Days. 

I don't think of it as complete incarnation or physical manifestation, more like a mini-heroquest visiting YOU, as it were.

I mean, gods traipsed around Kethaela during Belintar's time and that was a-ok.

Just trying to jog the creative faculties here.

[Ynneadwraith]

4 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I don't think of it as complete incarnation or physical manifestation, more like a mini-heroquest visiting YOU, as it were.

That I like!

The idea of the Gods exercising what little power they have in the Compromise by jumping someone unwittingly into a heroquest around hospitality (or perhaps you simply become the 'subject' in someone else's hospitality-based heroquest, where they're playing a god and you're playing the person they call to visit).

[jajagappa]

10 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I mean, gods traipsed around Kethaela during Belintar's time and that was a-ok.

I'd picture it sort of like Faerie and our world - it's sort of just around the corner, perhaps behind that tree, or shadow, but when you get there, it's just a bit farther away. Except when the worship ceremonies occur and Belintar happens to visit all the Earth temples simultaneously (because he's a god, just like Ernalda, so he can), then the worlds overlap enough and the inn that overlaps with the Gods World Inn just happens to have Vogarth, or the Jolly Fat Man, or the Trickster visiting that day.... 

So, it's not really that the gods traipsed around Kethaela, but that Kethaela and the Gods World overlapped sufficiently at times that you might interact with a god outside of the temples/worship ceremonies (i.e. you just happened to be more on the Gods World side that day).

[Sir_Godspeed]

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I'd picture it sort of like Faerie and our world - it's sort of just around the corner, perhaps behind that tree, or shadow, but when you get there, it's just a bit farther away. Except when the worship ceremonies occur and Belintar happens to visit all the Earth temples simultaneously (because he's a god, just like Ernalda, so he can), then the worlds overlap enough and the inn that overlaps with the Gods World Inn just happens to have Vogarth, or the Jolly Fat Man, or the Trickster visiting that day.... 

So, it's not really that the gods traipsed around Kethaela, but that Kethaela and the Gods World overlapped sufficiently at times that you might interact with a god outside of the temples/worship ceremonies (i.e. you just happened to be more on the Gods World side that day).

This is fine, because it means this scenario can then be applied elsewhere for similar results if we want/need it to, as I was working towards above. I know Kethaela had Belintar as the catalyst, but as I said, I have no problem tweaking the cosmology a little bit so that, for example, a high holy day or Sacred Time can act as the catalyst.

[Darius West]

22 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I dunno man. Partly I like the trope so much I'd like to make special accommodations for it, but also partly I think the Compromise could include these visits if it's already part of their pre-existing actions and patterns - especially around Sacred Time or Holy Days. 

I don't think of it as complete incarnation or physical manifestation, more like a mini-heroquest visiting YOU, as it were.

I mean, gods traipsed around Kethaela during Belintar's time and that was a-ok.

Just trying to jog the creative faculties here.

I'm glad you feel that way.  On the other hand, I suppose that depends on whether you think Kyger Litor actually lives in the Castle of lead or not.  It is my understanding that deities are in a state of torpor most of the time.  I am glad you like the "divine stranger at the hearth" idea, but it is undeniable that the Great Compromise will change that dynamic from the way hospitality was managed on Earth.  I actually like Bohemond's reasoning, and the idea that this "divine stranger" is something that is alien to Glorantha because of the Compromise.  It makes both worlds more consistent and unique imo.  The Gloranthans can still have heroquesters showing up in place of the gods, and inhabited by the gods.  As one of the meanest tricks you can pull on a heroquester is to remind them that they aren't actually their deity (such that if you are persuasive enough they will fail on the spot), so in that sense they embody the god and are the divine visitor, but metaphorically, and yet also in reality, as they are acting out the archetype's story.  I'm sure, given time we could cobble together a theological justification for how a God can show up in disguise to someone's door, but I think when we uncover a philosophical "hard limit" like this, it is more interesting to uphold it.  I am arguing metaphorically "in favor of gravity".  Limits are good.  Flying all the time makes your legs weak.

[Joerg]

Kyger Litor dwells in the Underworld, outside of the realm of Time.

[Darius West]

6 hours ago, Joerg said:

Kyger Litor dwells in the Underworld, outside of the realm of Time.

I've read both in different places.  The synthesis being that the basement of the Castle of Lead is in the Underworld.

[Geoff R Evil]

I know I read somewhere that Praxian tribes have a ritual when their warbands meet on the plains of Prax, can anyone remember where this is?

I know because I used it last year for my players.  It basically used some signalling at a distance, an acceptance of a sort of "until one yields" fight, usually between the weakest individual of each band, and once done the group can at least communicate civilly....if they want to.  The problem is the fight is usually lance to lance, so death is an accepted outcome, which makes sense for a death god like Waha.

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, Geoff R Evil said:

I know I read somewhere that Praxian tribes have a ritual when their warbands meet on the plains of Prax, can anyone remember where this is?

I know because I used it last year for my players.  It basically used some signalling at a distance, an acceptance of a sort of "until one yields" fight, usually between the weakest individual of each band, and once done the group can at least communicate civilly....if they want to.  The problem is the fight is usually lance to lance, so death is an accepted outcome, which makes sense for a death god like Waha.

Basically, these are Jaldon's games, the excuse behind the scenarios in the Nomad Gods board game.

[Sir_Godspeed]

8 hours ago, Darius West said:

I've read both in different places.  The synthesis being that the basement of the Castle of Lead is in the Underworld.

Glorantha is a world of mystic realism, so I don't think we need to, like, determine at which sublevel the Castle of Lead crosses over into the Underworld. Keep it vague, keep it contradictory - and solve stuff at the table, I suppose. At the very least, it seems clear that the Castles of Lead are more than mere physical constructions.

[Darius West]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:45 AM, Sir_Godspeed said:

Glorantha is a world of mystic realism, so I don't think we need to, like, determine at which sublevel the Castle of Lead crosses over into the Underworld. Keep it vague, keep it contradictory - and solve stuff at the table, I suppose. At the very least, it seems clear that the Castles of Lead are more than mere physical constructions.

Agreed.  That is how I have handled such problems when they emerge.  Thus far I haven't had players try to invade the Castle of Lead to enter the Underworld.  I'll cross that bridge if I ever come to it.

[Joerg]

On 1/10/2024 at 9:40 AM, Darius West said:

Agreed.  That is how I have handled such problems when they emerge.  Thus far I haven't had players try to invade the Castle of Lead to enter the Underworld.  I'll cross that bridge if I ever come to it.

You might be off to meet Eldest Kin on a diplomatic mission rather than invade. (If you have to, hire dragonewts...)

Trolls and other Underworld demons may experience the transition differently from Surface World mortals.

And there are places which are both within Time and in the Underworld, like e.g. Alkoth.