Rituals for becoming a Rune Lord or Rune Priest

[Squaredeal Sten]

As i re-read the Rune cults chapter of RQG, I don't see any reason that there should be a fixed number of Rune Lord positions at any temple.  Not as a general requirement, though who can say what might be in yet-unpublished cults books?  If you play it that way, YGWV, but it would be too bad if any third -party reader were to take a Rune Lord office count limitation as canon.

Why do i write this?

The Rune Priest requirements on page 276 do include "Have a vacancy at the temple as determined by the gamemaster."

But the Rune lord requirements on page 280 do not.

Those requirements are

   - Initiate in good standing for 5 years.  (And note that priests do not have a matching time requirement.)

   - Rune affinity and Devotion (deity) or Loyalty (temple)  of 90%

   - CHA of 18+

   - Cult skills, details vary

And that's it.  No vacant office required by the book.  Yes the book calls Rune Lord an "office" but I don't see a reference to a limit.

And I can see Gloranthan reasons why that would be so:  Qualified candidates for Rune Lord are going to be pretty rare, much rarer than clan or tribal thanes.   And rune lords do die in combat, so we ought not to assume that many live to a non-combat retirement, unlike priests who can perform their official functions into old age.  If you have one more rune lord and one less initiate thane, your tribe or clan still has the same count of "nobles" to support, so it's not a big economic issue even though the lord may have perks..  And the rune lord is going to give you much more combat power than the average initiate thane: Cheap DI, maybe an allied spirit, probably higher skills.  finally, it's the Hero Wars now!  You want all the rune lords you can get.

YGMV.

-

[svensson]

1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

As i re-read the Rune cults chapter of RQG, I don't see any reason that there should be a fixed number of Rune Lord positions at any temple.  Not as a general requirement, though who can say what might be in yet-unpublished cults books?  If you play it that way, YGWV, but it would be too bad if any third -party reader were to take a Rune Lord office count limitation as canon.

Why do i write this?

The Rune Priest requirements on page 276 do include "Have a vacancy at the temple as determined by the gamemaster."

But the Rune lord requirements on page 280 do not.

Those requirements are

   - Initiate in good standing for 5 years.  (And note that priests do not have a matching time requirement.)

   - Rune affinity and Devotion (deity) or Loyalty (temple)  of 90%

   - CHA of 18+

   - Cult skills, details vary

And that's it.  No vacant office required by the book.  Yes the book calls Rune Lord an "office" but I don't see a reference to a limit.

And I can see Gloranthan reasons why that would be so:  Qualified candidates for Rune Lord are going to be pretty rare, much rarer than clan or tribal thanes.   And rune lords do die in combat, so we ought not to assume that many live to a non-combat retirement, unlike priests who can perform their official functions into old age.  If you have one more rune lord and one less initiate thane, your tribe or clan still has the same count of "nobles" to support, so it's not a big economic issue even though the lord may have perks..  And the rune lord is going to give you much more combat power than the average initiate thane: Cheap DI, maybe an allied spirit, probably higher skills.  finally, it's the Hero Wars now!  You want all the rune lords you can get.

YGMV.

-

For an office vacancy, most likely that's a campaign decision by the referee. After all, every deity want as many devoted and skilled people following it as possible [within reason].

However some campaigns may include internal clan and/or temple politics, and we all know those can be every bit as vicious as racial or external politics. If there is drama within the church, it may NOT have room of a PC Rune Lord if that PC is gonna upset balance of power and authority. This is especially true in clans where the office of chief is inextricably tied to a church hierarchy like Orlanth or Ernalda. Every Orlanth Rune Lord or Ernalda Priestess is a possible rival for the clan chief position and that has to be taken into consideration.

[Darius West]

10 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I'd say the direct link to a patron would be even more critical if the character is self supporting, any patron would reward their deserving followers. No independant wilderness dwelling rune level wants to "report" to some far away temple that doesn't really involve them? Again YGWV as traveling 70-80 miles to worship and pay homage is bad enough but to give funding to a temple that isn't there to support them seems somewhat meaningless.

Please, understand my attempt at humor here, but murder hobo-ing around when you're a scruffy refugee on the run from occupying forces is fine for an initiate, but once you hit Rune level, you have a full time job.  Adventuring isn't a side hustle you get involved in perhaps once a season, you're in the Army now.  You will potentially be leading your tribal fyrd, or be involved in the Sartar Magical Union. Unless your king has sent you off on a job, you are expected to muster with the Clan whenever the Lunars next cross the Bush Range.

You may only play a "wandering party" style of game, but I don't.  When you become an important person like a Rune Lord, your life becomes a lot more settled, whether the character or player likes it or not.  Yes, you can become a victim of your own success, even in Glorantha.  This is not to suggest that you will never travel again, merely that it will be less frequent. Remember also that it is 1625 now, and there's a Hero War on.  You are part of a clan and a tribe again, and an important member of those organizations; you matter.  What you do matters.  You likely get  only 1 adventure for personal profit per year now.  The rest are on clan or tribal business.  That doesn't mean you don't get paid or can't plunder as you go, but you represent something bigger than yourself when you do.

There are lots of opportunities for roleplay and adventure, as a Rune level, but they are stories about consolidation, building, land development, politics, intrigue, military campaigning, oh, and Hero Questing.  Yes, really only Rune levels with at least Clan level support can Hero Quest with any reliability.

Of course if a character would prefer to bumble about after treasure in ruins and travel the world, perhaps Rune level isn't for them?

Of course if they found a relic of their deity that could serve as a mobile connection of sufficient power that it would allow them to regain RP, perhaps they could become a self-funded and independent Rune level, owing allegiance only to themselves?  That too is a possibility.

[svensson]

14 minutes ago, Darius West said:

You may only play a "wandering party" style of game, but I don't.  When you become an important person like a Rune Lord, your life becomes a lot more settled, whether the character or player likes it or not.  Yes, you can become a victim of your own success, even in Glorantha.  This is not to suggest that you will never travel again, merely that it will be less frequent. Remember also that it is 1625 now, and there's a Hero War on.  You are part of a clan and a tribe again, and an important member of those organizations; you matter.  What you do matters.  You likely get  only 1 adventure for personal profit per year now.  The rest are on clan or tribal business.  That doesn't mean you don't get paid or can't plunder as you go, but you represent something bigger than yourself when you do.

There are lots of opportunities for roleplay and adventure, as a Rune level, but they are stories about consolidation, building, land development, politics, intrigue, military campaigning, oh, and Hero Questing.  Yes, really only Rune levels with at least Clan level support can Hero Quest with any reliability.

Of course if a character would prefer to bumble about after treasure in ruins and travel the world, perhaps Rune level isn't for them?

I intended the 'hero band with apprentices and hangers-on' model to be sort of a middle ground between the 'always adventuring all the time' of RQ 2 and the 'stuck at the steading /temple /clan-hall for 7 weeks a Season' model of RQG. The idea is to keep the service to community theme of RQG while still allowing some resemblance of the 'Dat Freebootin' Lyfe' that players love. After all, if they wanted to be farmers, they wouldn't be adventurers.

What I find funny about all this is how hard players work in some genres and milieux to get their own freehold or base. They'll bust their ass if you offer them land in Dorastor [or local equivalent], but give them a steading at the beginning of the game? Nah, they'll avoid that like a trip to the dentist. 😆

[Joerg]

7 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

As i re-read the Rune cults chapter of RQG, I don't see any reason that there should be a fixed number of Rune Lord positions at any temple.  Not as a general requirement, though who can say what might be in yet-unpublished cults books?  If you play it that way, YGWV, but it would be too bad if any third -party reader were to take a Rune Lord office count limitation as canon.

A Rune Lord yields 90% of his income to the cult but in turn is financed by the cult. That's the limiting factor - how many rune lords can (the local chapter of) a cult maintain in the dignirity and readinesss they require?

[Darius West]

4 hours ago, svensson said:

The idea is to keep the service to community theme of RQG while still allowing some resemblance of the 'Dat Freebootin' Lyfe' that players love. 

That's a D&D idea of what an adventuring life is imo.  It mainly doesn't fit with RQG.  

4 hours ago, svensson said:

What I find funny about all this is how hard players work in some genres and milieux to get their own freehold or base. They'll bust their ass if you offer them land in Dorastor [or local equivalent], but give them a steading at the beginning of the game? Nah, they'll avoid that like a trip to the dentist. 😆

So you let them start with land, then you take it away from them.  Now they have no resources and plenty of reasons to adventure.  Problem solved.

[Malin]

4 hours ago, svensson said:

What I find funny about all this is how hard players work in some genres and milieux to get their own freehold or base. They'll bust their ass if you offer them land in Dorastor [or local equivalent], but give them a steading at the beginning of the game? Nah, they'll avoid that like a trip to the dentist. 😆

Many find it a lot more interesting in working towards getting something (exciting social climber) than working to keep it (boring middle class).

[svensson]

@Darius West @Malin

OK, one of the premises of RQG is to break the murder hobo trope. But a generation and half of gamers have been indoctrinated into expecting that trope. Add to that the pithy complaint phrases ['We're not playing 'Farmers and Famines', man!]. There is resistance even in the RQ fan base about the 'community adventurer' premise. My idea of having a troop of apprentices was demonstrate that 'community' can have more than one meaning and 'cult' doesn't have to be temple building or even one specific location.

As for player real estate, all your points are true but I also wonder if there isn't a certain anarchist 'I don't have to follow your rules!' attitude that goes with it. For one thing, most modern people have no idea of the implications of the standard oath of fealty, 'of life and limb and Earthly worship' etc. They just think, 'Kewl! I gitz ta build a kastle!', forgetting all the while that their liege lord will tax them, call them to duty in his army in prime adventuring season, make him get married to a difficult mate for reasons of state, 'visit' him all winter [remember,  you must provide hospitality to your lord and his retinue when they visit] to ensure he doesn't have too much grain or money saved up, etc.

And yes, while I'm describing this in a medieval context, this crap also occurred in Anglo-Saxon England, Celtic Gaul, and Viking Age Scandinavia. Clan chieftains are just as rapacious and jealous as any king-by-divine-right ever made, as any proper Scot will tell you.

[mfbrandi]

3 hours ago, svensson said:

'cult' doesn't have to be temple building

Now I am imagining an a party of PCs who are wandering stonemasons who always end up neck deep in and resolving the problems of their geographically scattered client cults. We will start a new trope of hobos on the square. Tattoo of third eye over dividers optional.

[svensson]

12 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

Now I am imagining an a party of PCs who are wandering stonemasons who always end up neck deep in and resolving the problems of their geographically scattered client cults. We will start a new trope of hobos on the square. Tattoo of third eye over dividers optional.

Secret handshakes, embroidered aprons, tools that never get the dirty, and it can be used as a path to Illuminati... er, Illumination. Whatever. 😆

[Squaredeal Sten]

1 hour ago, mfbrandi said:

Now I am imagining an a party of PCs who are wandering stonemasons who always end up neck deep in and resolving the problems of their geographically scattered client cults. We will start a new trope of hobos on the square. Tattoo of third eye over dividers optional.

That will work if you can get the players to all take characters in the building trades.  It could actually be interesting.  Temple hires you to prettify cave entrance, that's a hook.  Dwarfs hire you with a promise of showing Mostali secrets.  

Edited April 14 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[Malin]

Now I am just thinking of a "Damage Control" campaign like the old Marvel comic about the company that cleans up after superhero fights... The Hero Wars is pretty much that after all...

 

 

[Squaredeal Sten]

45 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

That will work if you can get the players to all take characters in the building trades.  It could actually be interesting.  Temple hires you to prettify cave entrance, that's a hook.  Dwarfs hire you with a promise of showing Mostali secrets.  

However, to get back to the topic of the thread, I doubt the building trades cults will have rune lords.   Who are we talking about? Pavis, Wilms?  City gods.  Chaosium will not publish RQG writeups of them soon though.  So if you want to forge ahead and give one of them rune lords, that's a goal for your players.

[Darius West]

11 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Now I am imagining an a party of PCs who are wandering stonemasons who always end up neck deep in and resolving the problems of their geographically scattered client cults. We will start a new trope of hobos on the square. Tattoo of third eye over dividers optional.

Have you ever read "The Pillars of the Earth" by Ken Follet?  The scenario you are describing sounds a great deal like that book.  It is about a desperate stonemason whose kid secretly burns down a church so his dad gets the nod from the local clergy to build an cathedral.  Then they get involved in all the local politics whether they want to or not.  It's a pretty good historical fiction novel that is set during the Anarchy.

[Shiningbrow]

On 4/14/2024 at 11:47 AM, Squaredeal Sten said:

As i re-read the Rune cults chapter of RQG, I don't see any reason that there should be a fixed number of Rune Lord positions at any temple.  Not as a general requirement, though who can say what might be in yet-unpublished cults books?  If you play it that way, YGWV, but it would be too bad if any third -party reader were to take a Rune Lord office count limitation as canon.

Why do i write this?

The Rune Priest requirements on page 276 do include "Have a vacancy at the temple as determined by the gamemaster."

But the Rune lord requirements on page 280 do not.

Those requirements are

   - Initiate in good standing for 5 years.  (And note that priests do not have a matching time requirement.)

   - Rune affinity and Devotion (deity) or Loyalty (temple)  of 90%

   - CHA of 18+

   - Cult skills, details vary

And that's it.  No vacant office required by the book.  Yes the book calls Rune Lord an "office" but I don't see a reference to a limit.

And I can see Gloranthan reasons why that would be so:  Qualified candidates for Rune Lord are going to be pretty rare, much rarer than clan or tribal thanes.   And rune lords do die in combat, so we ought not to assume that many live to a non-combat retirement, unlike priests who can perform their official functions into old age.  If you have one more rune lord and one less initiate thane, your tribe or clan still has the same count of "nobles" to support, so it's not a big economic issue even though the lord may have perks..  And the rune lord is going to give you much more combat power than the average initiate thane: Cheap DI, maybe an allied spirit, probably higher skills.  finally, it's the Hero Wars now!  You want all the rune lords you can get.

YGMV.

-

While generically there's no restrictions on numbers in most cults, on p27 of Lightbringers is "There must be a need for a new Wind Lord".

I don't see this for the others though (eg, Humakt, Stormbull, etc)

[svensson]

6 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

While generically there's no restrictions on numbers in most cults, on p27 of Lightbringers is "There must be a need for a new Wind Lord".

I don't see this for the others though (eg, Humakt, Stormbull, etc)

In many cults, including the two you mention, there aren't any Priests. Rune Lords provide the spiritual and magical support, as well as teaching skills, leading ceremonies, and acting as the political head of the cult. Smaller but widespread cults, the 'tier 2 cults' if you will, are always looking for a new Rune Lord. After all, there are VERY few clan chiefs who are Swords of Humakt or Master Hunters of Odayla. Such personalities rarely pose any political challenge to the clan and tribal leadership.

A Wind Lord of Orlanth is another matter entirely. Such people have to be noteworthy and accomplished in most aspects of clan life, and if they're too popular they might be seen as an alternative to less popular leaders. People tend to gravitate to alternate leaders when they're unhappy with the current office-holders and sometimes that happens without any overt act or intention by the new Wind Lord himself.

[mfbrandi]

6 hours ago, Darius West said:

Have you ever read "The Pillars of the Earth" by Ken Follett?

Never read anything by Ken F, but maybe he left ghostly resonances at 19 Gordon Square.

[Shiningbrow]

9 hours ago, svensson said:

In many cults, including the two you mention, there aren't any Priests. Rune Lords provide the spiritual and magical support, as well as teaching skills, leading ceremonies, and acting as the political head of the cult. Smaller but widespread cults, the 'tier 2 cults' if you will, are always looking for a new Rune Lord. After all, there are VERY few clan chiefs who are Swords of Humakt or Master Hunters of Odayla. Such personalities rarely pose any political challenge to the clan and tribal leadership.

A Wind Lord of Orlanth is another matter entirely. Such people have to be noteworthy and accomplished in most aspects of clan life, and if they're too popular they might be seen as an alternative to less popular leaders. People tend to gravitate to alternate leaders when they're unhappy with the current office-holders and sometimes that happens without any overt act or intention by the new Wind Lord himself.

I would have gone further to say that for both Humakt and Stormbull, the life expectancy for the average Rune Lord (or even initiate) isn't all that long...

Besides which, Rune Lords of those cults truly epitomise what RLs are about - and their respective cults - Death. For Wind Lords, that's less obvious, and there's quite a few other important aspects to the god/cult - like singing, bragging, dancing (probably playing bagpipes... telling outrageous stories, stealing stuff, farming.... etc etc)

[Darius West]

6 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

I would have gone further to say that for both Humakt and Stormbull, the life expectancy for the average Rune Lord (or even initiate) isn't all that long...

Ahem... Yes...  Please return the iron armor on your way out guys.

[mfbrandi]

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

For Wind Lords, … singing, bragging, dancing … probably playing bagpipes … telling outrageous stories, stealing stuff, farming … etc etc

So the ritual should be hanging a bell around their neck and riveting it in place, then:

• the “monsters” can hear them coming;
• they’ll feel more like brother Yinkin;
• we can hide when they come looking for “hospitality” and/or someone to bore to death.

It is cheaper than a set of iron armour, right?

[Ynneadwraith]

16 hours ago, Darius West said:

Ahem... Yes...  Please return the iron armor on your way out guys.

"Ah yes, for your quest to become Rune Lord you must retrieve the armour of your late predecessor...from the chaos pit that pre-deceased him. We've only just finished making the downpayment to the smith!"

Edited April 16 by Ynneadwraith

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, Ynneadwraith said:

We've only just finished making the downpayment to the smith!

Perhaps it is so expensive because so few sets are sold. To wear the armour is to be marked for death, so demand is naturally low, but then the clients will insist on re-using the same set for generations. Charge the maximum possible price, as you may never get another sale. (Main qualification for being a rune lord is to be the same size as the last guy.)

Perhaps iron armour needs a “security feature” — it will self-destruct on the death of the owner “to prevent it falling into enemy hands”. New ritual for becoming a rune lord: have your iron armour “imprinted” on you, so that it becomes a pile of rust on your death. It is good for economic growth.

[Ynneadwraith]

1 minute ago, mfbrandi said:

Main qualification for being a rune lord is to be the same size as the last guy.

Congratulations for making me snigger out loud in my office 😉 now I've got to explain what I was doing!

1 minute ago, mfbrandi said:

Perhaps it is so expensive because so few sets are sold. To wear the armour is to be marked for death, so demand is naturally low, but then the clients will insist on re-using the same set for generations.

I feel like this might be a non-issue, considering where all of these Humakti Rune Lords will be when they're finally relieved of their expensive iron armour (deepest, darkest Dorastor).

More of an issue is the mounting colossal pile of iron armour buried within Dorastor. Like an anti-magic Great Pacific Garbage Patch. What happens when that much anti-magic in one place gets heavy enough to punch through the magical firmament of Glorantha?

So yes, brave young initiate, you should go and try and retrieve some. Don't worry that the place was so dangerous it's killed multiple Rune Lords. I expect they died because they were weighed down by their heavy iron armour. You in your tunic and sandals should be plenty quick enough to escape any danger you find. Off you go! The world's counting on you!

[Shiningbrow]

4 hours ago, Ynneadwraith said:

So yes, brave young initiate, you should go and try and retrieve some. Don't worry that the place was so dangerous it's killed multiple Rune Lords. I expect they died because they were weighed down by their heavy iron armour. You in your tunic and sandals should be plenty quick enough to escape any danger you find. Off you go! The world's counting on you!

I would think that only the first had the nice armour - all the others were in linen tunic and sandals, hoping to acquire the first lot... (hopefully, after all these years, the thing they were fighting has died of old age).

 

Just a thought... why wouldn't the nice new Humakti Sword just DI (1D10 RPs) to get the big H (or D - Death) to transport the armour to them???

[Joerg]

6 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Just a thought... why wouldn't the nice new Humakti Sword just DI (1D10 RPs) to get the big H (or D - Death) to transport the armour to them???

Humakt, being a god of combat, would likely comply by sending the new Sword directly to the item and its bearer.

Disclaimer: I am not really fond of Death Incarnated as a player character concept.

Edited April 16 by Joerg