Rituals for becoming a Rune Lord or Rune Priest

[Karlak One-eye]

Hi folks,

The various RQG books and multiple products from the Jonstown Compendium give us excellent and atmospheric example of youthful initiations but I cannot recall seeing anything on what happens when our heroes take the big step of becoming rune level (in our campaign we call it "Taking your rune". Obviously each cult will be different but has anyone got any thoughts?

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, Karlak One-eye said:

Hi folks,

The various RQG books and multiple products from the Jonstown Compendium give us excellent and atmospheric example of youthful initiations but I cannot recall seeing anything on what happens when our heroes take the big step of becoming rune level (in our campaign we call it "Taking your rune". Obviously each cult will be different but has anyone got any thoughts?

The Biturian Varosh story for the Pairing Stones (in Cults of Prax, Orlanth Cult) gives a lay member insight on the ordination of a Storm Voice.

[Karlak One-eye]

17 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The Biturian Varosh story for the Pairing Stones (in Cults of Prax, Orlanth Cult) gives a lay member insight on the ordination of a Storm Voice.

I shall dig that out. Thanks. 

[Squaredeal Sten]

4 hours ago, Karlak One-eye said:

Hi folks,

The various RQG books and multiple products from the Jonstown Compendium give us excellent and atmospheric example of youthful initiations but I cannot recall seeing anything on what happens when our heroes take the big step of becoming rune level (in our campaign we call it "Taking your rune". Obviously each cult will be different but has anyone got any thoughts?

It is possible that lack of material may be because in RQ2 making rune level was generally character retirement.

Anyway, thoughts:

First thought:  

The cult should probably have some tests, to verify the prerequisites; Power 18, skill 90% in cult skills.  For a check on Rune points you might cast your Rune magic.

But second thought:

I am not absolutely sure of that, because to make Rune level you "should' already be well known to your temple.   For example your Humakti has demonstrated his skill to comrades in battle.  He may be the guy who cut the head off an Allosaurus with one blow, so after that who would ask for a test of sword skill?

There may be a priest at the temple who taught him his rune spells, so can count on his fingers and attest from memory how many rune points  the applicant has.

Recognizing that your campaign may vary, and for all I know your player characters are rootless wanderers, in which case they may not even have a temple to call theirs. 

Anyway I would expect a ceremonial investment, laying on of hands, oath of acceptance of the office.  Maybe a rune lord gets his first piece of iron if the temple can afford it.  But in my campaign they already had iron, talen off of defeated Lunar rune levels.

Edited April 4 by Squaredeal Sten
afford is not spelled with a p

[svensson]

[Just leaving these here for inspiration's sake 😁  ]

First is a Storm Voice of Orlanth and the second is a Wind Lord

 

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

First thought:  

The cult should probably have some tests, to verify the prerequisites; Power 18, skill 90% in cult skills.  For a check on Rune points you might cast your Rune magic.

But second thought:

I am not absolutely sure of that, because to make Rune level you "should' already be well known to your temple.   For example your Humakti has demonstrated his skill to comrades in battle.  He may be the guy who cut the head off an Allosaurus with one blow, so after that who would ask for a test of sword skill?

There may be a priest at the temple who taught him his rune spells, so can count on his fingers and attest from memory how many rune points  the applicant has.

This was called in the RQ2 days: "What it takes to Convince the Examiners".  The article by Greg on this appeared first in Wyrms Footnotes #13 and was reprinted in the Glorantha Classics Cult Compendium (p.54).

1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Anyway I would expect a ceremonial investment, laying on of hands, oath of acceptance of the office.  Maybe a rune lord gets his first piece of iron if the temple can afford it.  But in my campaign they already had iron, talen off of defeated Lunar rune levels.

This is a BIG DEAL for any cult! (Even Eurmal 😜 ) 

There will be a ceremony, a worship service with a blessing by the god, prayers, and when that's all done - a FEAST!!! 

Of course, all that can be hand-waved, but if it's a PC, I'd play up the event and give the PC opportunities to be generous, to show their Devotion and their Loyalty to the Temple, and reward them with appropriate gifts/loaned items from the temple.

[Squaredeal Sten]

And of course the temple now supports the newly promoted Rune Lord. Probably with assignment of five hides of land and/ or herds with grazing.  Maybe with free meals at the temple, if it practices communal dining.  ( In my mind that is the way to go for a large temple with several priests and initiates on staff.  I don't believe they should all be living at inns.)  A small temple at village level probably has one priest/priestess. who lives in a nearby house. probably temple property but maybe family property.

[Shiningbrow]

AS for the first bit - being considered worthy, I'd figure that a Divination would normally be cast (certainly for a Rune Lord - unless that's the only Rune level), because they're acting as the emissary of the god - and so the god's approval would be needed. (In that vein, I'd also suggest that the 'requirements' would only be 'typical', not binding. If the god wants your player to be their voice in the area, what priest is going to deny it?)

For the Priest (and GodTalker) levels, there should be some personal connection to the temple - because it's much more of a community welfare position than merely a new rank (for powergamers). Becoming a Priest or Godtalker to a complete stranger - even if of the same cult - should be a very rare thing, as the PC hasn't actually done much for said local temple.

 

And, yes, it should be a BIG DEAL when PCs get the rank... even as a GT. I wouldn't just handwavium it... (same with doing what it takes to achieve that rank).

 

Sorry - not answering the question...

The ceremony should be pretty grandiose (less so for Godtalker), and needs to be done in a very important space related to the main element of the cult - mountain tops, under the earth, at sea, on the edge of a volcano. Lots of people should be around to witness it (well, at least part of it). The god should make themselves felt. A minor Heroquest should be involved.

 

And, just for fun, the newly ranked PC should have to go on some sort of quest shortly after!

[Ynneadwraith]

2 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

And of course the temple now supports the newly promoted Rune Lord. Probably with assignment of five hides of land and/ or herds with grazing.  Maybe with free meals at the temple, if it practices communal dining.  ( In my mind that is the way to go for a large temple with several priests and initiates on staff.  I don't believe they should all be living at inns.)  A small temple at village level probably has one priest/priestess. who lives in a nearby house. probably temple property but maybe family property.

You could run it like the Spartan syssitia if you want to. Have a communal mess for temple members which provides free food (perhaps only on feast days to the wider membership), but there is a requirement this should be funded by the temple hierarchy. Anyone who is high up enough in the ranks should be providing for everyone else.

Being a wind lord comes with responsibility as well as benefits. Room and board wherever you go that has a major temple of your god, at the price of feasting your home temple on key occasions.

May rub up against people's MGF though, depending on their attitude towards community.

[radmonger]

One thing is that I think there is a practical distinction between actually being a thane, warband leader, clan chieftan, or tribal king, and qualifying as a Rune Lord that isn't always made clear in the rules. You could be either as easily as both.

As I understand it, a Rune Lord is examined and anointed by a High or Chief Priest. As most clan temples are to small to have anyone with that cult rank, that means either from a tribal temple, or one of the independent Great Temples. As such, it is something like a public statement saying that that part of the cult hierarchy feels you have the necessary qualities to be a good Orlanthi chieftain. But Orlanthi society is not a clerical theocracy, leadership roles are chosen by those led.

Usually cult recommendation is enough; if only one potential candidate for a leadership role is a Rune Lord, they very likely get the job. Other times it comes to choosing between one or more under or over-qualified alternatives. So being a Rune Lord is kind of like being a presidential candidate; you have to spend a lot of money. But noone is actually forcing you to do so. It is just that you will never be President unless you demonstrate the willingness and ability to flash the cash.

I guess if you are not seen as pursuing such a role energetically, you implicitly and gradually lose credibility. Bu once you have done such a job, the title sticks around, exactly like it does for former US Presidents. You may even get to keep a retinue of bodyguards.

 

 

Edited April 5 by radmonger

[French Desperate WindChild]

there are, for me, different things to keep in mind to have a new  rune lord.

 

1) there must be a need of a new runelord.

the community/temple/clan/tribe/kingdom/empire opens a new position and is able (and wants) to support a runelord, or a previous one left the position (death, retirement, ....)

And the cult agrees to appoint a new runelord. Of course this agreement is often obvious but sometimes... if the community is a band of mercenaries, or if the mundane leader who wants a runelord has... some disagreement with the temple leader.. Argh politics !

 

2) there must be a good candidate

enough abilities, enough power, enough probity (from the cult perspective of course).

I see the rules requirements (90% in ..., x rune pool, ....) as a guideline, not a rule personaly. At least from the mundane position. If you need a holy warrior, you choose the best qualified and that's done. Of course if all candidates are unable to run more than 2 minutes well... you may wait and hire someone else 😛 

 

Saying that... I imagine there is a ritual when a candidate can prove he/she has the capacity (morale, physical, magical) to become a runelord

that may be an heroquest or maybe just a "mundane" heroquest reenacting the god(dess) activities.

If there are several candidates and one position, it should be a tournament (same principle, the difference being that only the best is appointed, succeding the ritual is not enough).

In fact I imagine something like the Melisandre tournament but more difficult, more dangerous. A kind of rare festivity (I would not say that all cults have new runelords every year)

so initiates, priests, runelords, lay members, friends, families, clans, ... may participate in some ceremonies, games, etc... After a lot of more or less dangerous tests, the last step/station the candidate(s) is(are) expected to leave the community as initiate, and come back after days as a successful runelord once a heroic issue is solved :

find a cult artefact, destroy a chaotic nest, save some community member trapped by a powerful monster/cult or community ennemy, etc...

 

 

[Karlak One-eye]

On 4/4/2024 at 11:03 PM, svensson said:

[Just leaving these here for inspiration's sake 😁  ]

First is a Storm Voice of Orlanth and the second is a Wind Lord

 

Very nice - we use Heroforge for graphics as well.

[Karlak One-eye]

On 4/4/2024 at 10:57 PM, Squaredeal Sten said:

Recognizing that your campaign may vary, and for all I know your player characters are rootless wanderers, in which case they may not even have a temple to call theirs. 

Anyway I would expect a ceremonial investment, laying on of hands, oath of acceptance of the office.  Maybe a rune lord gets his first piece of iron if the temple can afford it.  But in my campaign they already had iron, talen off of defeated Lunar rune levels.

Some are wanderers; we are beyond the murder hobo tropes thankfully, but we have some folks with strong movement rune affiliations and an urge to see what is beyond the next hill. we also have clan and town folks.

Re the Iron - you have some brave folks wandering around in stolen Lunar holy artifacts, good luck to them!

Edited April 6 by Karlak One-eye
Correcting spellings

[Shiningbrow]

It's obviously going to depend on which cult we're talking about.

I imagine any Humakti who fulfils the requirements pretty much automatically gets made a Sword. Any Lhankor Mhy sage who fills the requirements gets made a priest.

However, the books do say that Wind Lords only get the position when one is required (meaning, the last one died... or somehow you create an opening). Same with Axe Maidens. Obviously,  different tables will have different numbers of Wind Lords (and Voices), and I'd expect some handwavium in that regard. Same with Ernaldan priestesses. part of this comes down to logistics - Rune Lords and Priests an priestesses are expensive to maintain! ("Thank you for your interest in this position. We'll keep your application on file should a place become available")

But, what about a Sun Lord? Or Storm Khan?

 

On 4/6/2024 at 1:00 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

the last step/station the candidate(s) is(are) expected to leave the community as initiate, and come back after days as a successful runelord once a heroic issue is solved :

find a cult artefact, destroy a chaotic nest, save some community member trapped by a powerful monster/cult or community ennemy, etc..

I'd think any candidate would have already proven themselves in such a way before they get the promotion... and, then get told to go and do yet another heroic quest (with their new-found powers).

[French Desperate WindChild]

48 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

I'd think any candidate would have already proven themselves in such a way before they get the promotion...

I can't agree 😛 because it means you get more runelords than you need.

It is like any community (clan ring in glorantha, mayor irl and glorantha, CEO of irl company, etc...). You need one boss not twenty, even if you have twenty good proven candidates. I agree that sometimes, you may decide to have two runelords and not one, but that means you can "offer" them (standard of living, gear, supports, etc...)

[radmonger]

1 minute ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

You need one boss not twenty

But you do specifically need 20 thanes. Few clans will have 20 rune lords available, so not all thanes are rune lords. But a position as a thane mean having a profession of noble, i.e. supported by tenant farmers. As such, it is the end goal for many martial cults unsuitable for leading a clan or higher.

Tribal temples likely don't appoint an Orlanthi tribe member as a Rune Lord if they are happy with the current choice. But I suspect an independent Great temple like Old Wind cares more about mythic suitability than current tribal political stability.

 

[French Desperate WindChild]

53 minutes ago, radmonger said:

But you do specifically need 20 thanes.

yes of course, but once you have 20, and one of them disappear, you don't need to hire more than one

 

and even you already have 20, and some of them are not rune lord, will the community decide to "fire" one of them to give the position to a better candidate ? sometimes yes sometimes no.

What I say is that being a runelord is not just a test (minimum level) but a contest (a minimum ranking)

Edited April 7 by French Desperate WindChild

[mfbrandi]

6 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I can't agree 😛 because it means you get more runelords than you need.

Yeah, but these are the Hero Wars, baby, and rune lords are like WW2 air crew. The newbie may seem like a spare, today, but by next Windsday … 😉

[mfbrandi]

7 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Any Lhankor Mhy sage who fills the requirements gets made a priest.

And deny the player the joy of the internecine war for tenure?

[Darius West]

On 4/5/2024 at 9:03 AM, svensson said:

[Just leaving these here for inspiration's sake 😁  ]

First is a Storm Voice of Orlanth and the second is a Wind Lord

 

While I like the look of these, where is their armor?

[Darius West]

On 4/7/2024 at 9:46 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

I can't agree 😛 because it means you get more runelords than you need.

It is like any community (clan ring in glorantha, mayor irl and glorantha, CEO of irl company, etc...). You need one boss not twenty, even if you have twenty good proven candidates. I agree that sometimes, you may decide to have two runelords and not one, but that means you can "offer" them (standard of living, gear, supports, etc...)

Agreed for the most part.  I think economics should be what delimits the number of Rune Lords a cult or clan can support.  If you want the position, you need to earn it by making your support cult or clan rich or powerful etc.  I mean, some kings might be able to offer 2 hides of land and 20K worth of Iron to anyone who qualifies as a RL, but it is a "big ask" for smaller outfits.

Edited April 10 by Darius West

[svensson]

45 minutes ago, Darius West said:

While I like the look of these, where is their armor?

I kept them out of armor for two reasons:

a] I thought of them as leading a worship ceremony and not under threat. While Orlanth has no objection to war or conflict, he is really more of a cultural god... he provides the virtues, laws, and codes of behavior; more of an Odin than a Thor figure.

b] I was still learning the Heroforge system and I was trying to get the tattoo decals to look right. More skin means more tattoos.

[Darius West]

On 4/11/2024 at 2:22 AM, svensson said:

I kept them out of armor for two reasons:

a] I thought of them as leading a worship ceremony and not under threat. While Orlanth has no objection to war or conflict, he is really more of a cultural god... he provides the virtues, laws, and codes of behavior; more of an Odin than a Thor figure.

b] I was still learning the Heroforge system and I was trying to get the tattoo decals to look right. More skin means more tattoos.

Completely fair, I just wondered.

[svensson]

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

Completely fair, I just wondered.

No sarcasm intended, thanks for the support.

[Erol of Backford]

On 4/4/2024 at 4:57 PM, Squaredeal Sten said:

But in my campaign they already had iron, talen off of defeated Lunar rune levels.

It doesn't get any better than that.

On 4/5/2024 at 5:28 AM, Shiningbrow said:

And, just for fun, the newly ranked PC should have to go on some sort of quest shortly after!

After is right as you state, much better than before or at least in RQ3 where the rune spells became reusable...

On 4/10/2024 at 10:41 AM, Darius West said:

smaller outfits

Smaller and or very rural outfits, remote locations with even shrines being few and far between, a candidate for rune level would likely have some sort of spiritual communication with said patron deity directly, I am guessing as even acolytes are scarce? They would be judged worthy not by some priest far away but by the deity or so we gamed years ago.

Most of our old game campaigns were the "wandering type" which don't lend themselves to being tied to a particular local. Back in the day the party would travel, set up base camp, become famous, be given land, etc., hire a steward of some sort and depart to bigger adventures far away. They'd come back to see some locations such as Apple Lane set upon by bandits or say Rabbit Hat which had become a windfall for the PC's.

I'd say the direct link to a patron would be even more critical if the character is self supporting, any patron would reward their deserving followers. No independant wilderness dwelling rune level wants to "report" to some far away temple that doesn't really involve them? Again YGWV as traveling 70-80 miles to worship and pay homage is bad enough but to give funding to a temple that isn't there to support them seems somewhat meaningless.

Travel far and near, bring glory to your patron, be rewarded...

Also any diety that has 100's of self supporting rune levels would be much stronger than limiting themselves to a few dozen due to "a spot being avalable"?

sorry if a little off topic...