Gaining rune magic from cults without priests

[glarkhag]

I play that gaining rune magic from a god is facilitated by a priest (or Lord) with instruction and a "hand-wave" ritual. Mechanically the instruction would be the talking through the (fractional) Cult Lore of the magic and the ritual would entail Worship (deity) if I were to roll it I suppose. Thinking about the mechanics of it came to me in considering how to gain rune magic from cults or sub-cults (particularly folk-hero cults) that have no priests or lords. Orgorvale Summer from the Gamemasters Adventures book for example, or the forgotten hero sub cult I have created in one of my own adventures.  With no spiritual leader to guide the way this feels like it ought to be a bit trickier and not necessarily a "hand-wave". I'm curious to hear what other people do around this. A simple cult lore and/or a worship roll? Do you make them do a minor heroquest to anchor the spell? Handwave some personal instruction from the divine being over a period of a week perhaps? Given Priests and Lords have POW and CHA of at least 18 respectively then some sort of abstract characteristic roll?

Assuming this is possible what are the implications for cults where priests and lords do exist and characters started learning stuff on their own..?  The second question coming from that is perhaps how much of the cult hierarchy is middle world driven - the work of the cult hierarchy - as opposed to deity driven? Does Orlanth care if an initiate sacrifices POW and learns his magic without the aid of a priest or lord?  The hierarchy might care - the political leaders of cults could very well feel undermined by independent spell learners!

Also is there an official response on this?

[metcalph]

This sounds like a job for the God-Talkers.  

[soltakss]

For me, if there is a temple, or shrine, and people are there to teach you then you can learn Runemagic.

Cult Mysteries can be taught to Initiates as well as Rune-Priests, Rune-Lords, or God-Talkers. As long as you know the cult mysteries you can teach the spell.

Alternatively, you can learn the spell by contemplating the divine at a place of worship, so you have a good old pray and the spell comes to you.

My preferred method is to do a little Passion Play, or re-enactment of the myth that gives the Runespell and you learn the Runespell. You might need a teacher to run you through the play first, though, or you could read it from a script.

[Joerg]

From a narrative perspective, the applicant for the new spell goes through an re-enactment of the deity's feat(s) that defines the spell, with the rune level enabling the individual's transition into Godtime enough to become the deity in the feat. This will involve ritual preparation - cleansing, small ordeals preparing the Godtime moment of the feat, possibly involving a small passion play enacted by some fellow initiates doing temple time. The POW to Rune Point transformation would be part of the transition into the Otherworld.

Edited May 6 by Joerg

[Scotty]

1 hour ago, glarkhag said:

Also is there an official response on this?

Yes, I've answered in the Q&A:

 

[glarkhag]

46 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Yes, I've answered in the Q&A:

 

Excellent answers, thank you!

[PhilHibbs]

I always assumed that you needed a rune master at the worship ceremony in order to learn new rune spells.

The way I imagined it is like Joerg says - you take part in a re-enactment of the myth, you perform a role that your deity or hero carried out to gain or discover the magic (stealing something, losing a contest against an unfair opponent, asking for help from a relative) and you get the spell. So someone else needs to tell you the secret of what the god did, the hidden details behind the details that only the initiated know. So you can't just make camp, cast Sanctify, roll Worship, and learn Lightning. At the very least you need someone who knows the secret of the magic (which I guess could be a summoned cult spirit).