Going incognito

[Puckohue]

I'm running a game (not RQ) where the rules give characters the option of "going incognito".

In Glorantha, would it be possible for a (not illuminated) cult initiate (or even higher) to hide their cult status? Could they join the same cult again (for example in another region) while pretending to be someone else, thus being perhaps an initiate in Boldhome but a lay member in Nochet? Could they become lay members or initiate into another cult without the new cult being aware of their undisclosed cult membership(s)?

I guess this ties into the "I have my whole life story and personality tatooed all over my body, including my face" thing, which probably makes things like infiltration and "under cover"-work hard.

[Joerg]

Blue Moon assassins might be able to do so, but then they have invisibility to trump going incognito.

Black Fang cultists are bound to have secret cult markings, and may well wear tattoos (possibly temporary ones) indicating a different cult membership. Same with Thanatari and Lanbrili, and possibly some Arkati.

Characters with access to optical Illusions might alter the appearance of their skin as they wish. A higher quality fake should include texture (to deal with touch and Darksee perception).

[Akhôrahil]

Cacodemon has magic to hide Cult status.

You can probably hide runes with make-up (at least something you can do with the very difficult to use Disguise skill).

Edited July 16 by Akhôrahil

[Puckohue]

But apart from hiding your physical appearance, isn't the divine connection established through for example initiation something that would be somehow exposed when interacting with the same or another cult?

Could you be a Wind Lord of Orlanth from the temple in Boldhome, but pretend not to be so when you get to Nochet, and initiate ("secretely again") into the cult of Orlanth there?

I would guess the divine connection established through the sacrifice of POW and MPs would mean something more than physical appearance.

Can you fake initiation? "Sure, I sacrificed POW and now have access to Orlanth's special rune spells. I just don't want to use them."

[Akhôrahil]

26 minutes ago, Puckohue said:

Could you be a Wind Lord of Orlanth from the temple in Boldhome, but pretend not to be so when you get to Nochet, and initiate ("secretely again") into the cult of Orlanth there?

Not sure. If you're a Wind Lord, you might have enough a spiritual aura that your priests can detect it in a temple, at least. Perhaps even other people might, if small winds act differenty around you all the time. On the other hand, it might be like conditional baptism - nothing happens if you do it again.

I get the impression that the current developer line is that there's come kind of divine background check when you want to initiate, where your prerequisites (like not being Chaotic or not being a Sorcerer) are verified magically in some unspecified manner. That would presumably find out if you were already initiated.

Lay membership seems very easy, though - I can't see how that would be a problem to fake.

Edited July 16 by Akhôrahil

[radmonger]

To turn the question around, I think you can essentially prove you are initiated by succeeding at a worship [deity] skill, which you wouldn't be able to do otherwise, and will have a magically detectable effect. This is presumably how initiation status carries over for cultists between distant lands, subject to the eternal debate over the deity in question being the same.

As a stranger, you would normally be treated as a guest and lay member until you did so. The chance that the roll could fail gives an infiltrator some cover. Saying 'I wasn't really feeling it that time' is an excuse you can use perhaps once or twice. Having visible permanent tattoos will decrease, but not eliminate, any suspicion.

Note that lunar cults tend to be a bit more organised in initiation status, actually writing things down. This is largely because they are far more likely to face infiltration by unauthorized illuminates. So you can't generally take control of a Yanafal Tarnils regiment by showing up and demonstrating an aura of command.

[Akhôrahil]

4 minutes ago, radmonger said:

To turn the question around, I think you can essentially prove you are initiated by succeeding at a worship [deity] skill, which you wouldn't be able to do otherwise, and will have a magically detectable effect. This is presumably how initiation status carries over for cultists between distant lands, subject to the eternal debate over the deity in question being the same.

This also seems like something a Divination might check unusually well, if the issue comes into question, and at least when it comes to initiation+ status.

Orlanth will know his own.

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

Divination … Orlanth will know his own.

And if the slumming Wind Lord is on Orlanth’s business (e.g. infiltrating a possibly corrupt temple), Orlanth will lie for the Wind Lord, right? (Assuming for the moment that Orlanth is a person and not a meteorological phenomenon.)

[PaulJW]

3 hours ago, Puckohue said:

In Glorantha, would it be possible for a (not illuminated) cult initiate (or even higher) to hide their cult status?

It depends what you mean by hiding their cult status.  You could be a Eurmal cultist who lies about their cult status for a laugh - claiming to be an Orlanth Storm Voice when they are not, dressing up as a Lhankor Mhy sage and claiming to offer obscure knowledge and esoteric secrets.

If you are a Eurmal cultist and a compulsive liar then the sky is the limit, I'd say.  All you need is a good fast talk skill, dress the part and use some illusions to make it look like you're the real deal.  If you can make a convincing first impression, people have no reason to question it - until something really stupid happens and the consequences of their ill placed faith in your abilities becomes apparent.

[Akhôrahil]

52 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

And if the slumming Wind Lord is on Orlanth’s business (e.g. infiltrating a possibly corrupt temple), Orlanth will lie for the Wind Lord, right? (Assuming for the moment that Orlanth is a person and not a meteorological phenomenon.)

Not sure if the god's intentions and will are involved in divinations, or if they just happen automatically. Is it a phone call or a DB lookup?

[mfbrandi]

3 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Is it a phone call or a DB lookup?

I don’t know either. Nor whether cult standing is recorded on the Orlanth–server, if we go that way.

[Kloster]

22 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Not sure if the god's intentions and will are involved in divinations, or if they just happen automatically. Is it a phone call or a DB lookup?

My personal feeling would be that if said rune lord is on a business for the god himself, the god can answer whatever suits his needs, but if the lord is in a business for the cult, the god has to answer according to what he knows.

[Akhôrahil]

MGF says there are ways to conceal it, perhaps through some kind of unusual religious practices.

"Feel your winds around you. Now draw breath and inhale them. Focus your six winds inside your seventh, inner, wind, the one that is secret to all other men. Let your outer winds be still, while your inner wind blows like a hurricane."

[Geoff R Evil]

Might depend on the cult too, but most communities will have a shaman too, and they are likely to be able to discern runic affiliations pretty simply as well as cult status with some magics.

Truth cults have spells like detect truth, and any doubt at all might invoke it. So unlikely to be incognito to Humakt for example.

as others said, gods know their own and a divination is a simple validation check.

[Jens]

Looking through various Spirit, Rune, and Sorcery spells, I can't actually find ones that directly identify which cult someone belongs to. Divination should tell you if someone belongs to YOUR cult, and likely their cult status (lay, initiate, Rune) and standing, but not any other cult. Soul Sight lets you know if someone is an initiate (but not Rune level); the description however doesn't mention knowing WHICH cult that person is initiated into. Reveal Rune can show you someone's runes, but you'd have to guess at their God "hmm, Earth and Death- is that Maran or Babeester Gor, or maybe Ty Kora Tek?". Sense Chaos might tell you they're tainted, but not who they worship.

There may well be clothing, rune, or social queues that give away your cult- and many cult members are very vocal about who they follow (vegans and triathletes, for example), but those could likely be covered up if you were on a covert mission (assuming you don't have a geas that makes you proudly display who you are).

[svensson]

It really depends on the cult.

First off, there are cults that don't appreciate deception in any form. Yelmalio, Humakt and Lhankor Mhy are strongly associated with the Truth Rune and it would take some serious circumstances for the cult superiors to authorize this kind of thing.

With Eurmal and Lanbril, you have no problems [obviously enough]. With Orlanth, all you have to do is initiate into Desemborth [Orlanth the Thief] and you're likewise fine.

Don't forget, you have to deal with both the mystical implications of what you're doing [will the deity approve] but also the cult hierarchy's feelings on the matter.

There are spells that will make it easier to infiltrate groups and there's always a Divine Intervention check if you're feeling really bold about it.