MythQuest - Announcement Thread and Help Request

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

If this is the wrong place to post this, please let me know and I'll move it where it should be.

Hello all,

Today I made the official announcement that I am developing a d100/BRP style hack called MythQuest.

Teaser Trailer

Announcement Video

I am not as familiar with the larger d100/BRP selection of games, but am getting up to speed as I can.

Would folks be willing to answer questions for me as I look for inspiration or methods for things I want to put in this game? I would really appreciate tapping into your knowledge.

As I have said many, many times, the BRP community has always impressed me with how open and accepting you all are, compared to certain 20-sided ones.

Thanks in advance and I look forward to any and all replies.

[soltakss]

9 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

I am not as familiar with the larger d100/BRP selection of games, but am getting up to speed as I can.

Would folks be willing to answer questions for me as I look for inspiration or methods for things I want to put in this game? I would really appreciate tapping into your knowledge.

Sure, we are a friendly group and love to talk about rules, so you should get lots of answers, maybe even too many answers.

My only caveat is that I think of D100 as being a mixture of old RQ, new RQ, Legend, Mythras, Revolution, Open Quest, and more, so my answers won't necessarily relate to the new BRP.

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

51 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Sure, we are a friendly group and love to talk about rules, so you should get lots of answers, maybe even too many answers.

My only caveat is that I think of D100 as being a mixture of old RQ, new RQ, Legend, Mythras, Revolution, Open Quest, and more, so my answers won't necessarily relate to the new BRP.

Not a single worry on my end, okay let me start with an easy one, Strike Rank ;) .

I've seen it in RQ and other games, as well as the Big Gold Book, but I can't seem to pin down a single version of it. One version is count up, the other is count down, etc...  Is there a definitive Strike Ran, or just multiple versions of it?

I'll let this one be for now, and ask more after.

Cheers!

[foolcat]

1 hour ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

I've seen it in RQ and other games, as well as the Big Gold Book, but I can't seem to pin down a single version of it. One version is count up, the other is count down, etc...  Is there a definitive Strike Ran, or just multiple versions of it?

As far I can remember it, and I'm writing this from the top of my head, there were different versions of Strike Rank in different editions of RuneQuest and Basic Roleplaying (aka The Big Gold Book). In RuneQuest 3—the Avalon Hill edition—there were 10 Strike Ranks, counting up. RQ2 and RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha use 12 SR, counting up as well.

The original version of Basic Roleplaying features the RQ3 10 SR version as optional rules, whereas the newer Basic Roleplaying - Universal Game Engine foregoes Strike Ranks and operates on DEX (or INT) Ranks, counting down. It gets even more confounding when rules for Statement of Intent (i.e. announce your action at the start of the round, then act on your turn/SR/DEX Rank) are involved, as there are several options as well.

In conclusion, there is no definite version of the Strike Rank rules, which basically represent Initiative or order of action within combat. Different flavors of d100 TTRPGs sport even more different solutions for this; for instance, OpenQuest goes by order of the relevant modified combat skills involved, highest to lowest. If you were to poll the pundits here which, if any, of these versions they prefer, I'd guess the results would be varied without any one preference. Me personally, I prefer to have some random element in determining Initiative, e.g. a dice roll modified by relevant attributes or skills (or circumstances), but then again, I'm perfectly content to do this just once at the start of combat, and not each and every round. 

 

[Atgxtg]

There are multiple versions of Strike Rank:

• RuneQuest introduced the original Strike Rank System did a count up from 0 to 12. THe Strike Rank which an action was resolved at was base on the character's DEX, SIZ weapon used, and/or POW point spent on a spell.
• RuneQuest 3 had a revised Strike Rank system with 10 Strike ranks per round instead of 12. Most things were about the same as the old method but values scaled down a little to fit in 10 Strike Ranks.
• Strpmbringer introduced a DEX rank system which counted down with characters acting on their DEX. It was used for most BRP games other than RQ.
• Ringworld has a Impulse System that counted up from 0, and character got to act every so many impulses based on their DEX. So someone with a Impulse of 5 would act every 5 impulses. Combat rounds were not discrete but instead flowed into one big combat.
• The UGE has a new Strike Rank system which is a modified version of the DEX rank System, where  things like movevent and the magic point cost of spells reduce DEX for determining wen an action is resolved.

All of the versions have their own pros and cons:

• The RuneQuest Strike Rank systems can factor in for more stuff than the others, and can give you tight controlled sequencing, but it is a little more detailed. Personally I prefer the 12 Strike Rank version over the 10 Strike Rank version as there is more room for variance between stats or weapons, but the 10 Strike Rank one isn't bad and has it's own advantages.
• The DEX rank system is simple and easy to use, but makes DEX the sole factor.
• The Impulse system is similar to but less granular than  the DEX rank system, but has the neat gimmick of getting rid of combat rounds. I wish the Strike Ranks system worked that way.
• The new Strike Rank system from the UGE tries to add elements of the old Strike Rank system to the DEX rank method. It doesn't cover as much as the old method (SIZ isn't a factor not is weapon reach) but is a little simpler.

 

 

[soltakss]

4 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

I've seen it in RQ and other games, as well as the Big Gold Book, but I can't seem to pin down a single version of it. One version is count up, the other is count down, etc...  Is there a definitive Strike Ran, or just multiple versions of it?

RQ has Strike Ranks that count up, so the lower the Strike Rank the better.

Legend/Mythras Style RQ had Action Ranks that count down, so the higher the Action rank the better. Some actions were at half Action rank, making it easier to work those out.

BRP (Big Red Book) had the option of either Strike ranks or Action Ranks, I think.

I can't find my downloaded copy of BRUGE but I think it uses Action Ranks that count down.

Personally, I prefer Strike Ranks, as that is what I am used to, but I see the advantage of Action Ranks, as they are not linked to time in the melee round.

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

Okay thank you everyone for your replies on this. Here's my thoughts.

• I like the Strike Ranks that count up, with 10 being the top (though I would maybe go 12 just to suit my clock OCD).
• I think the Impulses are neat, but a bit too loosey goosey for me. I like having rounds.
• Action Ranks and count down aren't for me on this one. So BGB (Big Gold Book) wins this with count-up from 1-12 for SR.

Next, and this is a bit of a stretch. I really liked the Pulp Talents in Pulp Cthulhu. Has any one done more of them? Or has any version of d100/BRP expanded on the idea, even third party?

Cheers and thank you again for proving how helpful and welcoming this community is!

Peace, love, geek!

[Atgxtg]

2 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

Okay thank you everyone for your replies on this. Here's my thoughts.

• I like the Strike Ranks that count up, with 10 being the top (though I would maybe go 12 just to suit my clock OCD).
• I think the Impulses are neat, but a bit too loosey goosey for me. I like having rounds.
• Action Ranks and count down aren't for me on this one. So BGB (Big Gold Book) wins this with count-up from 1-12 for SR.

Sounds like you prefer the orginal RQ version then. I can dig up the values for SIZ, DEX and weapons if you like.

 

2 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

Next, and this is a bit of a stretch. I really liked the Pulp Talents in Pulp Cthulhu. Has any one done more of them? Or has any version of d100/BRP expanded on the idea, even third party?

Well, yes and no.

Superworld had hindrances that you got extra points for taking, but it was mostly to help build a superhero character. So you might have a weakness to ultra violent light, or some such.

Note that similar stuff can be ported over from other RPGs, it just that you need to figure out what sort of "currency" players use to buy them. Are tey bought with characteristic points, skill points, or have their own little pool? Come to think of it, are you going to have random character generation, point build or some combination? That would have an impct on what method to use.

I'd suggest that if you do use them, make them optional as some players don't like them.

 

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

49 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Sounds like you prefer the orginal RQ version then. I can dig up the values for SIZ, DEX and weapons if you like.

I looked at the 1e version, it's a bit more in the weeds than I want to be. 

 

49 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Superworld had hindrances that you got extra points for taking, but it was mostly to help build a superhero character. So you might have a weakness to ultra violent light, or some such.

I can certainly look at those and see. Where then included in UGE?
 

50 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Note that similar stuff can be ported over from other RPGs, it just that you need to figure out what sort of "currency" players use to buy them. Are tey bought with characteristic points, skill points, or have their own little pool? Come to think of it, are you going to have random character generation, point build or some combination? That would have an impct on what method to use.

I haven't gotten that far into yet, but am thinking a mix of the two will work.

51 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

I'd suggest that if you do use them, make them optional as some players don't like them.

Mostly making this for my players and myself, so if I put them in they will be part of it. :)

Okay next question, how do you guys feel about the reduction of everything to a d20 like Pendragon or Dragonsbane (which was based on RQ I am told). Does it work better? Are there any breaks/problems that it raises?

Thanks in advance again. :)  

[Mugen]

As for myself, I really don't line RuneQuest Strike Ranks, as it tends to make every character have the same Strike Rank.

I'm used to having declaration order based on INT, from lowest to highest, and resolution order based on DED, from highest to lowest.

If you want something crunchier, you could also consider Revolution D100 complex combat system. In it, you start a turn with a given number of "Initiative points", which determines when you'll act first. After you act, your Initiative is reduced by an amount that depends on the action you took. Then, you'll be allowed to act again at this new Initiative count.

[Atgxtg]

2 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

I looked at the 1e version, it's a bit more in the weeds than I want to be. 

Well your game, your call.

2 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

I can certainly look at those and see. Where then included in UGE?

After a fashion. There are character failings ans power modifiers in the UGE (pp.90-92) but they are different and somewhat condensed from what appeared in Superworld. But it should give you a rough idea.

2 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

I haven't gotten that far into yet, but am thinking a mix of the two will work.

Certinainly. Most if not all BRP game with a point build system have a random method as well. 

2 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

Mostly making this for my players and myself, so if I put them in they will be part of it. :)

Okay. Just that if you make this to sell you should at least be aware of that. 

2 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

Okay next question, how do you guys feel about the reduction of everything to a d20 like Pendragon or Dragonsbane (which was based on RQ I am told). Does it work better? Are there any breaks/problems that it raises?

It's aa bit complicated. 

In Pendragon D20 does work better because Pendragon uses opposed rolls and "blackjack: system for resolution. That is higher successful skill roll wins, so you want to roll as high as possible but still be under your skill. Also skill over 20 adds to your die roll, increasing your chances of winning and exchange and/or rolling a critical. But Pendragon doesn't have and many success levels as BRP. You have success, failure, critical (roll skill exactly, or 20 if you modified skill is 20 or higher, with any amount over 20 adding to the die roll), fumble (20 if skill is 19 or less) and partial success (roll under skill but beat by opponent, which meas you lose but get some sort of mitigating effect).

For example Pendragon combat is handled with opposed skills rolls with the winner doing damage to the loser, and the loser getting his shield protection on a partial success. Strike ranks are not used and no one attacks first in combat, with some exceptions for missile weapons, movement, tactics used, and if you are fighting multiple opponents . 

So if you were to adapt BRP to that you'd lose special successes, and for highly skilled (20) character the ability to fumble or fail a die roll (without modifiers) and the need for a strike rank system, but you'd be able to handle a fight with an opposed roll. Also hit points, major wounds damage, armor and shield values are different in Pendragon.

 

Now personally I like both methods but they are different. Each has thier own pros and cons. S

 

 

[Atgxtg]

2 minutes ago, Mugen said:

As for myself, I really don't line RuneQuest Strike Ranks, as it tends to make every character have the same Strike Rank.

That's one of the things that is nicer about the 12 SR system. You have room for a bit more variance, so not everyone is attack on SR 7.

 

[Mugen]

3 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

Okay next question, how do you guys feel about the reduction of everything to a d20 like Pendragon or Dragonsbane (which was based on RQ I am told). Does it work better? Are there any breaks/problems that it raises?

Thanks in advance again. 🙂 

The drawback of using a d20 is that you have less granularity for critical successes. For instance, in RuneQuest if your skill is 60, your critical success chance is going to be 3%, and your special success chance is toing to be 12%. Good luck if you want to have something similar with a d20, without using a second roll on a 1.

Nevertheless, I'm quite fond of Pendragon's method.

Note : Dragonsbane was not based on RQ, but Magic World, the Heroic Fantasy booklet in the Worlds of Wonder boxed set. It was a simpler game, and used the magic system named "Magic" in the BGB and BRUGE.

Edited September 9 by Mugen

[foolcat]

17 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

Okay next question, how do you guys feel about the reduction of everything to a d20 like Pendragon or Dragonsbane (which was based on RQ I am told). Does it work better? Are there any breaks/problems that it raises?

My beef with a single D20 is twofold: there’s the low granularity (only 20 possible outcomes, which makes skill ranges a bit too stunted for my taste), and then there’s the flat distribution curve (aka “the springiness”). Combined, they make for a poor RNG, in light of better options. Plus, and this is completely a matter of personal taste, having only a single die to roll is akin to haptic deprivation (I’ve played West End Games’ D6 Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game back in the day, and boy, was improving your character ever a palpable and rewarding experience).

Don’t get me wrong, the D100 has its fair share of problems as well, or there wouldn’t be mechanics to mitigate its shortcomings, e.g. CoC’s Luck pool, pushing rolls, or brownie (“fate”, “adventuring”, or whatever) points.

[Atgxtg]

One reason qwhy d20 works so well in PEndragon is that the game relaies heavily on opposed rolls, where BRP prefers to compare success levels. 

Oh,. one way to add the granularity back to d20 is to set the success levels by the difference in the die rolls. 

For instance, with opposed d20s the winners advantage can range from  0 (a tie) to 19 (20-1). So you could set success levels at a difference of 0, 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16 (theoretically 32 or even 64 if you got a lot of modifiers). 

 

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

One reason qwhy d20 works so well in PEndragon is that the game relaies heavily on opposed rolls, where BRP prefers to compare success levels. 

Oh,. one way to add the granularity back to d20 is to set the success levels by the difference in the die rolls. 

For instance, with opposed d20s the winners advantage can range from  0 (a tie) to 19 (20-1). So you could set success levels at a difference of 0, 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16 (theoretically 32 or even 64 if you got a lot of modifiers). 

I was kicking the can on this one, and I decided on the following;

This works best for my system feelings of how I want it to feel.

Ultimately, MQ might stray too far for some BRP/d100 fans, but given the differences and changes between other versions, I feel I am in good company. ;) 

BE HEROIC!

[Atgxtg]

36 minutes ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

I was kicking the can on this one, and I decided on the following;

This works best for my system feelings of how I want it to feel.

Okay, but that is radically different from Pendragon.

It also might be a bit cruncher for most people since they would have to do the math (skill-roll) to determine the margin of success, and that gets a bit slower when the numbers are't s niice as in your example. For instance if the skill is 32% and the player rolls a 23 and gets 9% below their skill. 

Just to illustrate:

Say two characters in BRP had Sword 50% and Shield 50%.

• In BRP each would roll their attack and parry in Strike Rank or DEX rank order. Success levels would be compared to determine results, and each attack would be independent of each other.
• In Pendragon  it would be an opposed roll of Sword 10 between the characters, and the higher successful roll would do damage. The loser would get thier shield if their roll was below their skill. If both rolled over their skill then no damage would be done. If someone rolled a 10 exactly, then they would get a critical, and if somebody rolled a 20 they would fumble. Note that one roll is made for the entire combat round, winner does damage, and not for each attack.

 

 

36 minutes ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

Ultimately, MQ might stray too far for some BRP/d100 fans, but given the differences and changes between other versions, I feel I am in good company. 😉

BE HEROIC!

Yeah, you will lose some people. But to be fair I think every offshoot of BRP does that, and for better or worse that it what we are stuck with. IMO BRP, would probably be in a better/stronger position  if  MRQ, Myhtras, OpenQuest, Revolution, etc, didn't exist, but they do. 

 

BTW I have a home brew game mechanic which might help to simplify what you are going for.

Basically you treat the ones die as the success level. That way the math is a simple single digit minus single digit for success level. And you don't need any tables. For instance, using the 50% skill characters above a 33 would beat a 22, a 41, and a 56 (failure).  You can get the margin of success (and success levels) by comparing ones dice. So the 33 would beat 22 by 1 point, 41 by 2 points, and 56 (a failure) by 3 points. This gives you a 9 point difference, plus possibly a bonus for rolling doubles to get higher differences.

[g33k]

On 9/8/2024 at 10:51 AM, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

I like the Strike Ranks that count up, with 10 being the top (though I would maybe go 12 just to suit my clock OCD).

Personally, one of the things I like best about using  12  in game mechanics is that when I want to do "fraction of" I get to choose amongst halves/thirds/quarters/sixths.

I'm particularly fond of it for movement:  "3/4 move - 1/2 move - 1/4 move" & all the other options.

[Mugen]

10 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

I was kicking the can on this one, and I decided on the following;

I don't understand how difficulties are supposed to work. Do you mean a Challenging difficult requires the character to roll under 3/4th (or 75%) of his skill to succeed ?

About skill opposition, I prefer Pendragon's "Blackjack" method, where ties are won by the highest roll. Margins of success work just as well, but they require an additional subtraction on every roll, for no real benefit from a mathematical point of view. It's less counterintuitive, though, as people are sometimed puzzled by the logic of rolling low, but not too low... unless it's a critical...

I also don't consider a case where both rolls are failed to be a tie. I consider the highest roll to be the winner, even with lower benefits. With a MoS system, the highest margin (or closest to 0...) would win.

[Mugen]

On 9/8/2024 at 7:51 PM, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

Next, and this is a bit of a stretch. I really liked the Pulp Talents in Pulp Cthulhu. Has any one done more of them? Or has any version of d100/BRP expanded on the idea, even third party?

I didn't read Pulp Cthulhu, so it's possible I'm not answering properly...

Mongoose's first RuneQuest game (which is in fact related to the Myhras branch of BRP-related) had Heroic Abilities, which you could learn if you fulfilled some requirements. It was not very popular, though, as it reminded people of D&D3 feats. But MRQ1 was not really popular...

Land of Ninja (for RuneQuest 3) had Ki powers, which you could learn if the associated skill was above 90%. It granted you supernatural powers for that skill, which you could activate by rolling under a second skill, and spending Power Points. For instance, you could attack X opponents in one round with a Kenjutsu Ki power.

[Kloster]

9 hours ago, g33k said:

Personally, one of the things I like best about using  12  in game mechanics is that when I want to do "fraction of" I get to choose amongst halves/thirds/quarters/sixths.

I'm particularly fond of it for movement:  "3/4 move - 1/2 move - 1/4 move" & all the other options.

Agreed, but I prefer 10SR/Round, because it is simpler with activities whose duration is counted in SR, but that last more than 1 round. In RQ3, a spell needing 42 MP requires 42 SR to be cast. That easily translate in 4 rounds and 2SR.

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

7 hours ago, Mugen said:

I don't understand how difficulties are supposed to work. Do you mean a Challenging difficult requires the character to roll under 3/4th (or 75%) of his skill to succeed ?

Yes that is correct.

Maths is not an issue for me and my players, plus, much like CoC 7e, you just do the maths in advance and play in the moment.

Naturally, that's not for everyone, but I am not making this for everyone right? This is for me and my players, and whomever else wants to play it. :) 

I super appreciate all the feedback and suggestions, it helps me make decisions.

BE HEROIC!

[Mugen]

6 minutes ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

Yes that is correct.

Maths is not an issue for me and my players, plus, much like CoC 7e, you just do the maths in advance and play in the moment.

I asked this because at first I understood it meant a player had to roll under le lowest % between the skill and the difficulty rating. 🙂

Also, I think there's room for tasks easier than "normal". 

[Atgxtg]

3 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

Yes that is correct.

Maths is not an issue for me and my players, plus, much like CoC 7e, you just do the maths in advance and play in the moment.

That's fine if all the multipliers can be done in advance. But that tends to limit you to a set number of multipliers.

I do know of at least one non-BRP (but Percentile based) RPG that actually put a multiplication table on the character sheet to help do that sort of math easily. So you would add up all the multipliers and then work out the final success chance. 

3 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

Naturally, that's not for everyone, but I am not making this for everyone right? This is for me and my players, and whomever else wants to play it. :) 

Yup. It all comes down to how well you and your players can handle it, and how much it slows down the game if at all. 

In my games we usually had two people at the table who could do success levels, the resistance table, and most such math in their head so it never was a problem for our groups. Yet others have complained on the forums about wanting to remove the math and the tables as it bogs their games down. So it varies.  

But you only have to worry about running your group not everyone else. Unless/until you want to make something to sell.

 

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

In the style of my beloved CoC 7e I have made these up, using a round-to-the-nearest-whole formula for Difficulties, and the Critical range for 1 - 100.

With a well made character sheet, everything would be pre-calculated, making everything easy-peasy :)

I know some people balk at charts & tables, but I am Gen-X ;)