RQiG :Augment options 101

[Tiný]

One of the big things in the new RQG rules is how to augment , now page 5 of the GM references sheet in the GM screen pack and the GM screen as well has a good table which covers this quite well with a summary of what the options are. I am aware this subject was beaten to death in this forum a few years ago but its important for new players/GMs to understand how and more importantly why this "augment idea" works in the game system and roleplaying enivornment so that its fun and enables the players to  use it at critical points in the narrative scenes during the game .

1. One of your skills can augment the main skill to be used in a scene Or to use it on one of their characteristic's rolls (e.g con,str  etc) on the resistance table Or using a magically appropiate skill like sing, dance, or magical language can be add to your casting % for magical spells  ,i.e "I step away from the cliff and use scan skill as a augment  to see where the best route is up the huge cliff ..for my Climb skill roll"
2. One of your 3 elemental runes can be used to augment a non combat skill in the correct category (stealth), a sense (listen) or a combat skill associated with that rune (mace) or use it on one of their characteristic's (e.g dex, pow etc) on the resistance table.All these examples are from the darkness rune of course. i.e in a rainy dark forest a wounded friend  is  down and in pain you could  use Darkness rune to augment your listen skill to find them in the downpour.
3. One of your power Runes (e.g harmony/disorder) can be used to augment any combat/non combat skill thats is relevant  to it or use it on one of their characteristic's (e.g str,cha etc) on the resistance table ...(a careful call) i.e  a PC could use their Harmony Rune % to augment his intimidate skill or his orate skill in order to settle a a wild crowd of angry people about to lynch a cow thief.
4. One of your passions can be used to augment  various skills combat and non combat or or use it on one of their characteristic's (e.g str, dex etc) on the resistance table  based on your passions i.e Love Family passion  to augment swim skill to rescue a drowning son or daughter caught in a whirlpool 
5. Ritual OR meditate skills (not both!) can be used to augment  one of their characteristic's (e.g Con, pow etc) on the resistance table or to help cast spells by adding bonus's to spell casting percentages based on lenght of time (separate tables for both skills ) with a success in rolling either meditate OR ritual skill.

Phew...with success in these augment rolls (Not 5) you gain :

1. Critical success roll = +50 % added to skill to be augmented
2. Special success roll = +30 % added to skill to be augmented
3. Normal sucess roll = +20 % added to skill to be augmented
4. Failure roll =  -20 % added to skill to be augmented
5. Fumbled roll =  -50% added to skill to be augmented

NOTE Passions and Rune augments have their own tables with different effects for failures and fumbles .Check it out !

Of course the augment roll result happens even if its a really bad fumble roll ..no backing out as the main roll is affected by it-- this can lead to great roleplaying opportunities for the PC's 😉 

Now here is the hard part where GM's have to play the game their way and adapt to these new ideas (well HQ and pendragon but heyho)

• Only one augment (RUNIC or PASSION or SKILL)  may be attempted per ability, and an ability can only be used once per session to augment a task being attempted
• If the adventurer has already rolled (i.e as augment)  to be inspired by a Rune or Passion during the situation at hand, they cannot try to be inspired again, even by a different Rune or Passion. Additionally, the bonus from inspiration cannot be combined with an augment from another skill

I am sure many have house rules regarding these augment rules . But used the right way, sparingly and encouraging players to take a risk and use augments (some are plain scared!) they can give great epic moments at critical points of the game story.

I am sure I have got some points wrong here,(this post will be edited) the main point of this post is to promote and encourage use of augments correctly by GM's and players new and old to make the game of runequest  even more fun and easier to understand for everyone !

and no ...broo's dont get augments cause they are stinky poopoo heads 🤪

 

[PhilHibbs]

Important to point out to new players:

1. Never augment with an ability that is below 50%, you are more likely to hurt than help.
2. Therefore, a passion at 50% is a "neutral" position. You neither care nor dis-care about the subject. Below 50%, a passion is actively the reverse of its title.

It would be interesting to run with this and contemplate a BRP re-write that set 50% as being a base skill level for everything, with negative and positive modifiers, maybe for attributes and cultures. But that would be off-topic in this thread.

[Tiný]

too true Phil !!! you have been warned;)

[Ian Absentia]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

1. Never augment with an ability that is below 50%, you are more likely to hurt than help.
2. Therefore, a passion at 50% is a "neutral" position. You neither care nor dis-care about the subject. Below 50%, a passion is actively the reverse of its title.

Well, no.  This may be the mechanical effect (which underscores the success of playtesting this mechanic), but the percentile score of a Passion is intended to indicate how often a thing or idea has a profound or motivating effect on the individual, not how much they care about the polar opposite.  You're conflating Passions with the paired duality of Runes, or paired Traits in Pendragon, which is understandable.  A Passion is a characteristic that stands out on its own, though the success guidelines for augmenting on p.p. 144-145 suggest that a low Passion is often a form of personal confusion.  Maybe that's the intent?  A person is better off either being very certain of their Passion or having no Passion at all.

But you're right that a low Passion functionally inhibits a character according to those guidelines, as though they do the wrong thing for the right reasons and wander off-script, detracting from their efforts.  There are work-arounds that either occur intuitively or are borrowed from other games (e.g., take a flat +20% augment for successful Passion rolls and ignore failures and similar), but we don't want to wander off-topic.

!i!

[Nick Brooke]

In character creation, all Passions start at 60%. Phil’s point, while mathematically correct, is kinda irrelevant.

[French Desperate WindChild]

25 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

In character creation, all Passions start at 60%. Phil’s point, while mathematically correct, is kinda irrelevant.

The only issue i see with the rules is there is nothing explaining what happens when GM decides to reduce a passion 60% (or there is nothing I remember)
 

Then some consider that you can have a 50% 40% etc (I consider if you lose % when you have 60, you lose the passion)

and what does the passion score means ? 
 

for me,

the passion is an element of background / role play 

but the passion score is mainly a game design information : roll and you get or not a bonus. Simple and easy

intensity of the passion is « just » a side effect : more you use a passion more you may hope to gain more % but more you play the use of your passion, more you play the intensity of it.

[Mugen]

It would be strange that someone with a Passion, which is optional, would be more neutral about its subject than a character without that trait...

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

The only issue i see with the rules is there is nothing explaining what happens when GM decides to reduce a passion 60% (or there is nothing I remember)

Then some consider that you can have a 50% 40% etc (I consider if you lose % when you have 60, you lose the passion)

Same here, there's really no point in having it if it goes much lower than that, other than maybe for roleplaying reasons, if someone wants to play out their love turning to hate using the game mechanics.

[French Desperate WindChild]

11 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

if someone wants to play out their love turning to hate using the game mechanics.

I prefer, in that case, to manage another passion with roleplay (when I say roleplay, it can be acting the characters, or it can be explanation/story  between GM and Player, no intention to force someone to do something)

Transforming a passion in an opposite just because some fumbles or a GM decision (you did  it ? ok -30%) doesnt honor what I consider as the best addition RQG provides 🙂 

And that offers an opportunity to have both love and hate passions (so internal conflict), something that a -100 (or 0) . + 100 range score cannot describe.

 

[PhilHibbs]

6 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I prefer, in that case, to manage another passion with roleplay (when I say roleplay, it can be acting the characters, or it can be explanation/story  between GM and Player, no intention to force someone to do something)

Transforming a passion in an opposite just because some fumbles or a GM decision (you did  it ? ok -30%) doesnt honor what I consider as the best addition RQG provides 🙂 

And that offers an opportunity to have both love and hate passions (so internal conflict), something that a -100 (or 0) . + 100 range score cannot describe.

I'd never force a passion-reversal on a player, but some groups are okay with that kind of game and GM-player relationship.

[Aurelius]

17 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

1. Never augment with an ability that is below 50%, you are more likely to hurt than help.

In the spirit of extreme nitpicking -- I cba to do the math, but -- if your augment is 49%, the latter part of the above is true, but the conclusion might still be false, because you still have a 10% chance for a special success, and there no special fumble to counter it in the equation. Meaning, there are probably skill values where augmenting with 49% makes you more likely to succeed, than to fail. 

Anyway, I think the augmenting rules are too slow and complicated for my preference.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

2 hours ago, Aurelius said:

Anyway, I think the augmenting rules are too slow and complicated for my preference.

The rules are overly nitpicky, especially how the rules for failures and fumbles vary widely.

If the players try to use them for most every roll they definitely slow down the game.  We started out overusing them a lot.

The process should be fairly quick,  During a few key scenes in the session, think of a few reasonable skills or Runes or Passions to use, get GM approval, then choose.  Works well.  "I'd like to use my Mobility or Devotion Orlanth to augment my XXX, what do you think?"

The problem is when the player takes a minute to scan their character sheet so as to pick out the highest skill, then argues over why it fits, and, should that get rejected, then scans to find their second highest skill...

Nor are GMs very consistent with the text.  In one of the White Bull sessions Jeff allows Air to augment a Climb roll.  I've seen others, including our group, allow Air to augment archery fire.  The arrow travels through the Air, right?  It practice, most GMs are liberal with augments, but they need to have a consistent "strike zone."

[Ian Absentia]

14 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Same here, there's really no point in having it if it goes much lower than that, other than maybe for roleplaying reasons, if someone wants to play out their love turning to hate using the game mechanics.

Again, not what a Passion <50% means.  Fading Love is not hatred.  And there are situations where a player and GM might be motivated to explore a waning Passion, like a Fear that might be overcome.  And again, this is an example of where the mechanics (or lack thereof as @French Desperate WindChild points out) get in the way of roleplaying.  Simple and intuitive fixes, ignore Failures, bump -20% penalties down to Fumbles, blah-blah-off-topic.

!i!

Edited Monday at 10:43 PM by Ian Absentia
NB: See RQG p.26, boxed text, and p.236 for Inspiration, contrary to how the Augmentation rules actually function.

[Ian Absentia]

I was aware that I was recalling the mechanics for Passions more clearly from King Arthur Pendragon than I was for RQG, but I finally found the Inspiration rules that I kept flipping past on RQG p.236.  As noted in the OP, augments for Passions have their own rules.

First, and this can't be emphasised enough, Passions are not the paired Traits from KAP.  Even in KAP they're distinctly different.  Love (Family) isn't paired against (Hate) Family; it's just How Much I Really Love My Family, 0 to 100%.  The same goes for any other Passion.  And they can diminish during play, and they are worth having at <60%, and they should have a significant effect on roleplaying.  Even a minor Passion is still more compelling than no Passion at all.  And even no Passion at all is still a non-committal state, or perhaps indifference, not opposition.

In the spirit of staying on-topic (😑), a quick recap of the augmentation effects from a Passion roll.

Critical:  +50%
Special:  +30%
Success:  +20%
Failure:  Only -10% ("Shucks, I really thought I cared more about it than that...")
Fumble:  Not even a -50% penalty, you go straight into Despair and give up trying, maybe for days.  And -1d10% to that Passion, because now you're ridden with doubt.

I'm on the fence about whether or not a Failure merits a penalty.  Generally, Failure should be just Not-Success, and whiffing is its own punishment.  But at an emotional level from a roleplaying perspective, your character really thought that they deserved that augment, so maybe Failure should be a little crushing.

!i!

[Aurelius]

22 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

If the players try to use them for most every roll they definitely slow down the game.  We started out overusing them a lot.

The process should be fairly quick,  During a few key scenes in the session, think of a few reasonable skills or Runes or Passions to use, get GM approval, then choose.  Works well.  "I'd like to use my Mobility or Devotion Orlanth to augment my XXX, what do you think?"

The problem is when the player takes a minute to scan their character sheet so as to pick out the highest skill, then argues over why it fits, and, should that get rejected, then scans to find their second highest skill...

If I had to redesign, off-the-cuff, I’d go with….

 - You can only augment a couple of times per session. 
 - Augmenting happens after skill roll, so as to only add the slowdown when its necessary. 
 - Augmenting grants you a reroll. 

Either or both:

A: You can only reroll rolls that were below your augment stat, and/or

B: Your augment rerolls are made against the lower one out of the original skill and the augment stat. 

This would remove augmenting process for all the stuff that would succeed anyway, allow players some agency over which rolls they really want to succeed in, and still keep the augment stat values highly relevant. Oh and eliminate that stupid table and extra math that comes with it. 

Maybe also: Failed augments do not count towards your augment attempts per session. 

[Tiný]

I think that using augments should be on the menu but let players use them for that extra roleplaying kick once a session perhaps twice for that OOOooooOO moment.

And as for picking the right passion etc and taking too long hell its good to make the PCs realise WHO their character is and what he feels ..e.g Oh hey I see I am loyal sable riders ..well thats cool didnt notice that before 😉 

Most players are not as much into "the world" as their lovely GM's are - I this find in most roleplaying games.

"back story ? I have a back story ?kewl"

[Geoff R Evil]

In my game I allow more than one augment roll per session. For me these calling upon passions and runes are a central part of what makes a hero, so why limit them. That said I am rigorous about requiring the runic rolls to be supported by the book. But if a player can make a strong case I may allow them. For me the extensive use of passions and runes and the focussing of the player around those runes and passions is what makes them different to other players, even those of the same cult and status in the cult. 
That said, where appropriate I allow monsters to use their passions and runes too, too few GMs remember to do that. But always make it clear that somehow the enemy is doing so.

Runes and passions make the game exciting, love em.

That said a Babeestor Gor in my game has hit 100% death rune…we had a long debate about what that means to Role-playing…and tbh that’s good.