What does a holy day ceremony actually look like? - Yanafal Tarnils

[Karlak One-eye]

Hello folks, I am in a situation in our rolling campaign where a group of characters are working to create their own mercenary company based in the precincts of a monastery of a group of YT warrior monks. The Storm Season holy day is due and I wonder how it would work. Would there be hymns, ceremonial duels, dancing, materialisation of spirits, sacrificed rams? Is it an all day affair who or what manifests and are there key points in the day? And how might a monastery worship service differ from a large city temple?

I can and will make something up but there are some lovely minds on this forum (and some weird ones!) ao thought I might open up the question.

The question also applies to all the cults as the cult books lovely as they are do not really give much info on what the services might look like which is important for RP feel.

So over to the group mind...

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Karlak One-eye said:

Would there be hymns, ceremonial duels, dancing, materialisation of spirits, sacrificed rams? Is it an all day affair who or what manifests and are there key points in the day? And how might a monastery worship service differ from a large city temple?

Yes to hymns, duels, dancing (including sword dances), summoning of spirits, sacrifices (of rams, broken swords, etc.).

Yes, I'd expect it to be an all-day event.

Remember that days start/end at sunset, so would begin with lighting fires as evening begins. Might build a big bonfire and then sing and dance around it. That might go on all night and serve to remember former companions. At dawn as the fire dies down, a brazier might be carried to the ceremonial altar. Sacrifices likely would occur then as the main Worship service begins and the Otherworld is brought close to the mortal one. Hymns are chanted, selected initiates don masks or ritual garb, quests are reenacted (usually at the boundary of the Otherworld as the leading Rune Lord becomes YT for the event). 

As YT is a regimental deity (not a city deity), I doubt there is much difference between a ceremony at a monastery and one at the parade ground or in the field.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

I think they play Dire Straits' "Brothers in Arms" as one of their hymns.

"Now the sun's gone to hell and
The moon's riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
But it's written in the starlight
And every line in your palm
We're fools to make war
On our brothers in arms"

[John Biles]

Ceremonial fights ought to be part of it, perhaps re-enacting something from the war with the Carmanians at the birth of the Empire.

 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

34 minutes ago, John Biles said:

Ceremonial fights ought to be part of it, perhaps re-enacting something from the war with the Carmanians at the birth of the Empire.

 

Maybe.  Yanafal was himself a Carmamian.  So perhaps not?

[John Biles]

Just now, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Maybe.  Yanafal was himself a Carmamian.  So perhaps not?

He literally helped lead the war on the Carmanians and helped create the Red Goddess to stomp them.

 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

13 minutes ago, John Biles said:

He literally helped lead the war on the Carmanians and helped create the Red Goddess to stomp them.

 

Yes.  Both of us are correct.

Since Carmamia is now a fully assimilated and important part of the Empire, and a big source of warrior Hazars, many of whom would join YT, it doesn't seem intelligent for the Lunar authorities to overplay any "YT hates Carmamia".

To use a modern analogy: it would be foolish for the US Army to emphasize ritual combats with Confederate rebels, or over-glorify Sherman's March, since the South is part of the USA, and many of our soldiers come from there.

[metcalph]

3 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Since Carmamia is now a fully assimilated and important part of the Empire, and a big source of warrior Hazars, many of whom would join YT, it doesn't seem intelligent for the Lunar authorities to overplay any "YT hates Carmamia".

The Lunar Empire would have no problem in depicting the Empire of the Bull Shahs as being evil and many Carmanians would be could at least distinguish between the barbarous Bull Shahs and their own sophisticated society.

[Karlak One-eye]

12 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Yes to hymns, duels, dancing (including sword dances), summoning of spirits, sacrifices (of rams, broken swords, etc.).

Yes, I'd expect it to be an all-day event.

Remember that days start/end at sunset, so would begin with lighting fires as evening begins. Might build a big bonfire and then sing and dance around it. That might go on all night and serve to remember former companions. At dawn as the fire dies down, a brazier might be carried to the ceremonial altar. Sacrifices likely would occur then as the main Worship service begins and the Otherworld is brought close to the mortal one. Hymns are chanted, selected initiates don masks or ritual garb, quests are reenacted (usually at the boundary of the Otherworld as the leading Rune Lord becomes YT for the event). 

As YT is a regimental deity (not a city deity), I doubt there is much difference between a ceremony at a monastery and one at the parade ground or in the field.

Thanks Jajagappa and everyone else, all very helpful.

Interestingly we play (and have done since 1986) that the lunar day changes with moon-turn at midnight (YGWV). We also decided it was easier to assume the same chronology in Dragon Pass because it made managing calendars simpler.

I do like the idea of ritually re-enacting various YT triumphs but I agree with Rodney DD that lording it over Carmania might net be politic (also the captain of the company comes from an old noble family in Karresh, so...). I may well create a myth of YT defeating the Storm to be seasonally relevant. I'll leave the triumph over Humakt for High Holy day.

Edited yesterday at 10:54 AM by Karlak One-eye

[mfbrandi]

13 hours ago, jajagappa said:

sacrifices … of … broken swords

By melting them down to make new swords? Might not agree with everyone’s idea of sacrifice, but it seems both practical and Lunar–cyclic.

13 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

We’re fools to make war / On our brothers in arms

Seems a bit swords into ploughshares — perhaps the White Moon pacifists sing this from over the wall (and good luck to them). Or perhaps it is gangster sentimentalism?

[Ali the Helering]

On their holy day the Roman priests of Mars would dance through the streets singing a song nobody understood and periodically leaping in the air for no readily apparent reason.  Does that help, as one war god for another?

[Karlak One-eye]

3 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

On their holy day the Roman priests of Mars would dance through the streets singing a song nobody understood and periodically leaping in the air for no readily apparent reason.  Does that help, as one war god for another?

It does thank you Ali - outside looking in is good for atmosphere, I of course also need to know what the adherents believe as that is what my players are.

[Ali the Helering]

It is really hard to say, but in Augustus' reign a line was added to the song/hymn to mention him, yet otherwise Ovid records it as being archaic and incomprehensible, and the meanings of both dance and leaping quite inscrutable.  If you were not a member of the priesthood then you probably had to guess - indeed, it is quite possible the priests no longer understand!

In the Pre-Reformation Western Christian church apparently it was not uncommon for a priest to be illiterate, performing the Mass in Latin (which they did not understand) by rote and therefore highly vulnerable to distortion.  The Counter-Reformation dealt with that, I gather.  When Ignatius Loyola is in on the act, you can expect an educated priestly class - or else😇

[Rodney Dangerduck]

6 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Seems a bit swords into ploughshares — perhaps the White Moon pacifists sing this from over the wall (and good luck to them). Or perhaps it is gangster sentimentalism?

Or a warning against the constant civil and dart wars that plague the Empire.  By a strange coincidence, often at convenient times for Argrath.

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, Ali the Helering said:

Ovid records it as being archaic and incomprehensible, and the meanings of both dance and leaping quite inscrutable.

33 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Or a warning against the constant civil and dart wars that plague the Empire.

Maybe the Dire Straits and the senseless saltations go together quite nicely: war is quite incomprehensible … and not in a good way — our frolics are as senseless as our butchery. The point is to be pointless, maybe?

[mfbrandi]

5 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

Roman priests of Mars would dance through the streets singing a song nobody understood and periodically leaping in the air for no readily apparent reason.

An inspiration for Vance?

[MOB]

On 9/24/2024 at 4:37 AM, Karlak One-eye said:

Hello folks, I am in a situation in our rolling campaign where a group of characters are working to create their own mercenary company based in the precincts of a monastery of a group of YT warrior monks. The Storm Season holy day is due and I wonder how it would work. Would there be hymns, ceremonial duels, dancing, materialisation of spirits, sacrificed rams?

As I said in another thread about switching to Yanafal Tarnils from Humakt,

IMG Humakti who switch over to Yanafarl Tarnils get to keep all their gifts (as long as they don't break their geases) and can continue to replenish their rune points at Humakti temples. And I'm just going to take off my tinfoil helmet to note that Humakti can replenish their rune points in YT temples too, though they do tend to get a bit self-conscious during the liturgy, what with all the tambourines, guitars, and group hugs. YGMV.

[Ali the Helering]

In one campaign I ran (35 years ago!  Aaargh...) the Humakti sang a hymn based on the Monty Python "Spam" song.  Death death death death etc