Newbie to BRP and need some advice! Please HELP!

[MadFable]

Hello everyone, I just recently stumbled across BRP and may be interested in purchasing it. I downloaded the free quick-start pdf to give it a look over, and have read many of the posts here. (Great community btw!) My group has been looking for a new system for a good while now. We started back in 2nd Edition DnD, played most of the 3rd in all it's varies stages, also Alot of 2nd edition White Wolf stuff, Shadowrun, and of course our last system we ran into the ground for the four years Legends of the Five rings. Just to highlight the primary games we come from.

Anyway, we've kinda burnt ourselves out on a lot of settings our there. So we tried just winging it and making our own worlds, which turned out to be a refreshing step and brought back that good old feeling. Well after doing this for awhile we decided we needed a system that lends itself well to custom world building, custom characters etc etc. So after much research I ended up purchasing a bunch of Hero System 6th edition books. Very nice system, very detailed, too detailed... it was a bust. We spent days just trying to make characters. And now when they see that stack of books they make up excuses to do something else. Safe to say, while I like the concept of Hero, it was vastly too complex and crunchy for our taste.

So I began my search elsewhere. I decided to look into Savage Worlds and while it looks neat, I worry it's too simple and won't allow the customization we crave. As a result of comparing this system with that I ran across a post mentioning BRP. Now. I never played BRP. Ever. I have however played Cthulhu, and loved it too death. Still one of my favorite settings. I like the percentile system on the surface. But am hesitant to buy into another system just to be disappointed again.

So here are my questions!

1. How would you compare BRP to HERO and Savage World?

2. Does BRP lend itself well to world building and unique characters?

3. I noticed they just released a hardcover copy, honestly I prefer soft to hard cover. Is there a difference between the two? It looks as if the hardcover has more pages? 384 soft 400 hard?

4. Does Chaosium keep the books updated with each printing like that did with Cthulhu?

5. Longevity! We tend to stick with a system for more than a few years. So how is this system holding out? It looks like you have a great community here and that's a super plus!

Those are my primary concerns right now. Anything any of you can tell me would be seriously appreciated by I and my group, thank you!

[Agentorange]

So here are my questions!

1. How would you compare BRP to HERO and Savage World?

Savage worlds I can't comment on as I've not used it, compared to HERO BRP is nowhere near as complex ( imo ) you can make it complex by adding stuff into it, but at heart the mechanics are pretty simple, You can model fairly complex activities and ideas but the rules are not as complex in a fiddly lots of stuff to remember sort of a way.

2. Does BRP lend itself well to world building and unique characters?

I would say yes, but then any halfway decent system will, it's more down to the gamesmaster and players to achieve this. Check out some of the settings both official and monograph to get an idea of what it's capable of.

3. I noticed they just released a hardcover copy, honestly I prefer soft to hard cover. Is there a difference between the two? It looks as if the hardcover has more pages? 384 soft 400 hard

4. Does Chaosium keep the books updated with each printing like that did with Cthulhu?

I don't own the hardback so I'll let someone else handle this one

5. Longevity! We tend to stick with a system for more than a few years. So how is this system holding out? It looks like you have a great community here and that's a super plus!

Well, BRP in it's current form has been around for about 4 years. Product has been pretty slow from Chaosium ( but that's chaosium for you generally speaking ) 3rd party stuff has been interesting, Alephtar Games have produced some stonkingly good historical supplements eg: Rome, Merrie England, Crusaders of the Amber coast and a BRP mecha supplement is in the works. Cubicle 7 have produced a modern Cthulhu style game which uses the BRP engine.

We do have a great community here ( well, I think so ), friendly, helpful, full of ideas. Enriched a great deal by the fact that a lot of BRP authors/designers/publishers post here regularly.

Those are my primary concerns right now. Anything any of you can tell me would be seriously appreciated by I and my group, thank you!

You're welcome.

[rust]

1. How would you compare BRP to HERO and Savage World?

2. Does BRP lend itself well to world building and unique characters?

3. I noticed they just released a hardcover copy, honestly I prefer soft to hard cover. Is there a difference between the two? It looks as if the hardcover has more pages? 384 soft 400 hard?

4. Does Chaosium keep the books updated with each printing like that did with Cthulhu?

5. Longevity! We tend to stick with a system for more than a few years. So how is this system holding out? It looks like you have a great community here and that's a super plus!

1) More flexible and more intuitive and easy to learn, use and modify than Hero,

more granularity and detail than Savage Worlds.

2) Yes, it does, although there is the minor problem that the many options make

it easy to fit the system to a specific setting or type of character, but the choi-

ce of the right options can be somewhat confusing for a newcomer. The only

genre where BRP is not really suited for is science fiction, because it lacks the

rules for the design of high technology equipment (starships, etc.).

3) I do not have the hardcover, so I have to pass on this one.

4) As far as I know there is currently only one version of BRP available (but there

are of course many, many closely related d100 games out there), and I am not

aware that there have been any changes between the printings.

5) Many of the forum regulars have played BRP and its predecessors (the various

versions of Runequest) for decades, so I see no longevity problem.

[TheHistorian]

I never played BRP. Ever. I have however played Cthulhu, and loved it too death. Still one of my favorite settings. I like the percentile system on the surface. But am hesitant to buy into another system just to be disappointed again.

Two things to separate here - system and setting. System is the game mechanics. Setting is the storyboard where those mechanics are applied. So if you've played CoC and liked the system, then you have played BRP - the systems are 99% the same. The setting is flexible - use one that already exists for a BRP based game, or use one that works with any game - BRP will work regardless.

1. How would you compare BRP to HERO and Savage World?

I haven't used the others so I can't compare. All I can say is that I've never seen the need to go looking past a BRP related game.

2. Does BRP lend itself well to world building and unique characters?

As I said above, the setting can be anything you want, so if you want to build your own, BRP will not stand in the way of that. Unique characters - absolutely. There are no classes, so you can make anything you want. Say you're playing in a modern world setting. Who can your character be? Anyone. Child, firefighter, boxer, pilot, politician, doctor, male, female, Australian, French, South African, Mongolian... the rules handle anything, or are EASILY adapted to do so. Want to make a boxer who isn't a very good boxer but knows a lot about chemistry for some reason? Go for it. Heck, the rules could handle it if you wanted to play a cat.

3. I noticed they just released a hardcover copy, honestly I prefer soft to hard cover. Is there a difference between the two? It looks as if the hardcover has more pages? 384 soft 400 hard?

The hardcover does have some corrections to the softcover.

See here: http://basicroleplaying.com/basic-roleplaying/brp-hardcover-2133/6/

There are a couple errata threads here:

http://basicroleplaying.com/basic-roleplaying/typos-errata-corrections-clarifications-322/

http://basicroleplaying.com/basic-roleplaying/brp-hardcover-errata-2879/

Generic - Downloads - Basic Roleplaying Central (this one has compiled errata files you can download)

4. Does Chaosium keep the books updated with each printing like that did with Cthulhu?

Whether a more recent printing of the softcover exists with the corrections integrated, I couldn't say. I'm sure Chaosium sells a lot more CoC books than BRP, so they have more motivation to tweak and correct the rulebooks for CoC.

5. Longevity! We tend to stick with a system for more than a few years. So how is this system holding out? It looks like you have a great community here and that's a super plus!

Well, it depends how you want to count. The current version of the BRP BGB (big gold book) only go back to about 2008. Previous versions of the BRP being published as any sort of separate pamphlet or book go back to a booklet that was a piece of Runequest 2E in 1979.

If you want to consider the entire history of BRP related games, then you have about 35 years of back material that can be used - adventures, settings, supplements, etc. - and it will require trivial to minimal conversion. This isn't like D&D that has changed drastically over the years. I could grab the first Runequest adventure (Balastor's Barracks) from 1978 and run if using the current BRP rules with no problem.

So how much material is that?

BRP (~5 editions)

The Laundry

Stormbringer (5 editions)

Elric

Call Of Cthulhu (6 editions, plus many in between editions)

Worlds Of Wonder

Superworld

Ringworld

Elfquest (2 editions)

Nephilim

Other Suns

Pendragon (~5 editions)

Prince Valiant

Runequest (6 editions)

Privateers And Gentlemen

Mythworld

Worlds Beyond

GORE

Open Quest

Age Of Shadow

Legend

Wraith Recon

Age Of Treason

Clockwork & Chivalry (2 editions)

Renaissance Deluxe

...and I've probably forgotten something

Plus all their supplements, related setting material, years of magazine articles, and many online resources for both the above and BRP adaptations (BRP Star Wars, say). That's a ton of stuff!

Some of those are less connected to main BRP than others, but they all have enough BRP at their cores that you could mine for source material and not have to do much work on the system conversion.

[Atgxtg]

1. How would you compare BRP to HERO and Savage World?

BRP is a more grounded and down to earth while HERO and Savage Worlds are more 'high fantasy" and cinematic. Kinda like a more realtistic sports game as opposed to a acrade style sports game.

BRP isn't quite as "crunchy" as HERO, although it can be depending on which options a GM goes with. Using all the RQ3 options that are in BRP would probably make it almost, but not quite, as crunchy than the core Hero system.

2. Does BRP lend itself well to world building and unique characters?

Ummm, sort of. It doesn't so much lend itself to world building so much as it is easier to push out of the way. BRP doesn't give you much help in crafting a setting, but it doesn't lock you into as many pre-cut assumptions as most RPGs. You don't get locked into a given culture, or religion, or magic system the way a game like D&D locks you in. So you get a lot more freedom to go your own way, do what you want, or adapt the system to a given setting. If you are a fledging GM, the lack of support will be a bit of a problem-you will have decide some things for yourself. On the other hand, if you are an experienced GM, the system doesn't "fight you" as much when you do know just what you want and have to tweak things a little to get it.

It doesn't lend itself to unique characters. At least not compared to RPGs like HERO or Savage Worlds. BRP is a skill-based RPG, meaning that characters improve by raising their skill scores (and even attributes, though those are harder to improve), rather than by obtaining and spending some sort of points (XP, character points, etc.). Depending on the setting, things like what magic, mutations, superpowers that are available may also allow for more uniqueness.

What BRP lacks, is some sort of advantage/disadvantage system. Well, mostly. It's is there as an option, but is more of a trimmed down version of Hero (the ad/disad system in BRP dates back to when Hero was still Champions).

3. I noticed they just released a hardcover copy, honestly I prefer soft to hard cover. Is there a difference between the two? It looks as if the hardcover has more pages? 384 soft 400 hard?

As mentioned the hardcopy is newer and has some errata and corrections. But it looks like most of those are available separately.

4. Does Chaosium keep the books updated with each printing like that did with Cthulhu?

Based on #3 above, yes. At least so far.

5. Longevity! We tend to stick with a system for more than a few years. So how is this system holding out? It looks like you have a great community here and that's a super plus!

Well, BRP is an offshoot of an RPG called RuneQuest, which came out in 1979. While RQ had gone in an out of print over the years, changed publishers, changed authors, and even changed large chunks of the rules, not to mention having many variants and spin-offs, it is still in existence in several forms. And Chaosium is currently the longest surviving RPG company, and probably the only RPG company that is still around from the 70s, although it's not as influential or innovative as it was in it's heyday.

As for community, it's hip deep in that. Many of us here are long time fans of one (or more) of BRP's parent or sibling RPGs. Most BRP-related systems are fairly similar to each other and there is a high degree of cross compatibility. FOr instance, if you are familiar with Call of Cthulu, Erlic!, RuneQuest 1-2, RuneQuest 3, Stormbringer, Elfquest, etc. you will already be familiar with about 80% of the rules in the BRP book. What you don't know will probably be only slightly differernt, or a new addition, rather than a radical change.

As for advice: If you like CoC "to death" then you will like the game mechanics in BRP. If you want a nice detailed setting, then BRP can't help you. It doesn't really come with one, you'd have to get that in a supplement.

The BRP core rule book is more like a kit to help a GM design his own game than a full fledge RPG with a richly detailed setting. What a Gm has to do is have a setting in mind, and then choose which features and options out of BRP that fits his setting. There are some nice, richly detailed settings out there. But the core rule book, is just rules, no setting. You get a lot of options, a couple of different magic systems, rules for superpowers, mutations, weapon stats ranging from stone age rocks and clubs to futuristic laser rifles, some NPC and animal stats, but no campaign setting to speak of. If you like to build your own setting, BRP could be ideal.

[MadFable]

Thanks for all in the input guys. You've really helped me out. For the most part BRP sounds like something I and my group would enjoy!

My only hesitance now is I've noticed there is a 6th edition RuneQuest... is there a thread somewhere comparing the two? I thought I saw one before but cannot seem to find it!

[Mankcam]

My only hesitance now is I've noticed there is a 6th edition RuneQuest... is there a thread somewhere comparing the two? I thought I saw one before but cannot seem to find it!

Not sure if there is a comparison thread, but the question is not an uncommon one. Most BRP games (including the earlier Chaosium RQ editions) are about 95% compatible, that is, the core fundamental rule mechanics are the same, with a few different game mechanic options according to the flavour of the setting. Easy enough to ignore and port your favourite mechanics to any BRP setting.

RQ6 has strayed from the path moreso than other BRP games, although it is about 70% compatible (possibly more) with core BRP, so many people here in this forum would GM both systems, with players going between the two systems with relative ease.

BRP is a generic toolkit which attempts to cover many different genres, a dream for a GM who wants one system to hang all his worlds from. However, RQ6 specifically focuses on the fantasy genre, ideal for ancient/bronze age settings, sword n sorcery pulp settings, through to gritty late medieval settings.

So I think a good rule of thumb is to go for BRP if you want a one-stop shop, whereas pick up RQ6 if you want to specifically create fantasy world settings (Also note that Chaosium will be releasing a 'Magic World' line this year, apparently a series of resources for using BRP in the Fantasy genre, so that may also be worth considering if you decide BRP).

In the end it's a hard call between the BRP BGB and RQ6 - you'll could easily find yourself with both titles in your collection at some stage, just like many of us here...

Good luck with your world building!

Edited January 17, 2013 by Mankcam

[1d8+DB]

Hero is pretty math intensive. I'm looking at the combat chapter of Champions, which is pretty much the version tailored for superheroes, and calculating a combat value (CV) has eight steps. Now I haven't actually played with the system, but it does look a little intimidating to a mathphobe like myself.

Savage Worlds is a good fit for games that feature a lot of gunplay. There are some simple mass combat rules, and their rules for autofire are much better than BRP, though perhaps the hard-cover addresses the infamous 'firehose of death.'

Oh, and the general consensus is that BRPs mechanic for for determing the SIZ (Size) characteristic for really, really big things and creatures is broken. Again, maybe the HC edition addresses this.

[Atgxtg]

Oh, and the general consensus is that BRPs mechanic for for determing the SIZ (Size) characteristic for really, really big things and creatures is broken. Again, maybe the HC edition addresses this.

If it doesn't a few of use have a house rule that does address it. Just keep the doubling with each +8 SIZ (used in the 8-88 range) and it seems to work out reasonably well.

[MadFable]

It's a bit of a hard call. I've been conferring with my group. Here's a question they often ask me that I don't know the answer too. Do both or either of RQ 6th or BRP contain templates/examples specifically to make your own race, spells, powers/abilities, etc etc? I cant seem to find the answer for that.

[ORtrail]

It's a bit of a hard call. I've been conferring with my group. Here's a question they often ask me that I don't know the answer too. Do both or either of RQ 6th or BRP contain templates/examples specifically to make your own race, spells, powers/abilities, etc etc? I cant seem to find the answer for that.

The BGB (Big Golden Book as the BRP book is often called around here) does have a section of sample NPC templates (starting on page 360 of the soft cover). Sample NPCs might be more accurate, but it gives an excellent idea of how to build certain types of characters. As for the creating of powers/spells and such, there is not really a system in the BGB -some of the monographs or supplements may have addressed that. With the wealth of settings for BRP games you can probably find something close to what you want to use (as examples if nothing else).

Going to a BRP gaming system can be quite a change for some gamers. I remember wrapping my mind around the idea of having all those skills, no levels, starting with a fairly competent character instead of a first level guy. I laugh when I think about certain assumptions in other gaming systems that simply don't apply to BRP.

"Welcome to the Borderlands," said the city guard, as our party entered the Coughing Rat Tavern. "You guys are newbies," the guard noted, then pointed to a full table across the room. "You see that group? The guy in robes is a wizard, the guy in leather is a rogue, the guy with the metal armor and mace is a cleric, and the other guy in metal armor with a sword is a fighter."

Depending on your setting, those guidelines often don't apply to BRP.

One other thought: BRP is good for low level super hero campaigns. Think Spider-Man level or less. It tends to break at the higher power levels.

Edited January 18, 2013 by ORtrail

[nclarke]

The BGB - BRP 4e is mostly a toolkit for running a game by picking and choosing from a multitude of design choices.

Here's a copy of the Table of Contents.

1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5

2. Characters . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15

3. Skills . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 46

4. Powers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 85

• Magic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 89

• Mutations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 102

• Psychic Abilities . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 111

• Sorcery . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 122

• Super Powers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 141

5. System . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 169

6. Combat . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 187

7. Spot Rules . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 211

8. Equipment . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 237

The following chapters are for the player who will take the role of GAMEMASTER.

9. Gamemastering . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 278

10. Settings . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 297

11. Creatures . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 329

12. Appendices . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 372

• Index . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 376

• Character Sheets & Important Tables . . . . . . 381

The settings section has bunch of various settings with suggestions on what to use for them. The Planetary Adventure section has a set of suggested character types and powers for that setting for example.

Character Types: Professions suitable for a planetary

adventure or equivalent setting include Artist,

Assassin, Athlete, Craftsman, Doctor, Engineer,

Entertainer, Explorer, Gambler, Hunter, Laborer,

Merchant, Noble, Occultist, Pilot, Politician, Priest,

Sailor, Scholar, Scientist, Servant, Shaman, Slave,

Soldier, Spy, Student, Teacher, Technician, Thief,

Tribesman, and Warrior.

Common Powers:Generally, the powers in a planetary adventure setting are either mutations or psychic

abilities, or some extraordinary abilities best modeled with the less flashy super powers.

If you've seen Call of Cthulhu or download the free BRP Quick Start rules you'll know how the various character types are dealt with - a set of skill choices to match those used by that type.

As far as non humans go there is a sidebar on non-human races of about one half a page which explains how to use monsters as player characters (Note monsters include dwarfs, elfs, trolls).

RQ6, while also a toolkit, is designed mostly for fantasy games but has many similarities to BRP in the game design field. There is a section on creating non-human player characters and the magic is very varied and totally different to any D&D game you may have played. The sorcery system doesn't use spells as such are described in many FRPGs but is more building blocks to create effects i.e. Animate Substance quite literally invests an inanimate object with a semblance of life, permit-ting it to move under its own power.

RQ6 is a little light on the examples but has a very useful set of sidebars which go through many of the processes by which characters are created and played.

[Toadmaster]

I started playing Runequest in 81 or 82, and HERO (Champions) in 82 or 83 so I think I can consider myself fairly familiar with both. I did not move on to 6th edition HERO though as I did not like many of the changes made. I own Savage Worlds but have never played it and honestly I can't seem to make heads or tails of the rules.

First of all the BRP family tree has many branches, so you may want to poke about and figure out which member of the family best suits you. Runequest was the original and is more complex than other versions. It includes hit locations, sectional armor, weapon / shield breakage and strike ranks (a system to account for character action speed and weapon length). Call of Cthulhu came next and it dropped a bunch of the more fiddly detail (the stuff above) but did add guns, sanity and a new magic system. Now you can add newer games like Mongoose's Runequest / Legend and Runequest 6 which build on the original Runequest and add even more detail with fighting styles, and combat manuevers. On the other end you have Open Quest which is BRP simplified (or so I'm told I haven't actually seen this version of the game) and Magic World which should be released later this year, which sounds like it will fall in the complexity scale somewhere around Call of Cthulhu. None of these games are so different that it would be hard to use a supplement designed for one with another, and a player used to one of them should pick any of the others fairly quickly.

The BRP book collects the various rules from Runequest (2 and 3, not the later versions), Call of Cthulhu and other lesser known games Chaosium released over the years. Which if these rules you choose to use will determine how complex the game is. It also includes many optional rules to adjust the feel of the game. You can choose options that will make combat very dangerous and life cheap, or ones that will mellow things out and allow characters to pull off over the top stunts. The game is fairly grounded in reality though so it doesn't really do highly cinematic or 4 color super heros all that well.

You can easily create new races, spells etc but it is a case of finding something similar and eyeballing the new thing. It doesn't really give a lot of rules for designing new stuff. One big plus for BRP is it is very easy to swap stuff out. I have pulled complete rules from other games and added them right into BRP. One example was basically using Carwars to provide detailed vehicle rules.

As far as RQ6 vs other versions? I'm really liking it. An occasional complaint is that BRP is kind of dry. The biggest change for me is the combat manuevers rules in RQ6 (and I believe Legend). This adds a lot of flavor to the game. It seemed a bit backwards to me at first, but it encourages people to be more descriptive in combat. Instead of I swing at his head, or cool I got a crit so do double damage, you get special extra actions based on how successful your roll was, then pick from a list. Instead of picking a location and taking a penalty, called shot is one of the special extras you can get, same with impale, or knock down, disarm etc. A crit doesn't do more damage and a fumble doesn't make you drop your weapon, they effect how many of these special actions you get to pick. I'm probably not describing this all that well, but it is cool. At least to me, I know there are some who do not share my enthusiasm for this part of the game.

HERO is not really as complex as it appears but the huge text books it has become do not do the game any favors. The original game was strictly superheros and came in at around 128 pages. 4th Edition became a generic game but was still around 256 pages, 5th edition bulked up to 500 some pages and 6th edition became 2 books totalling 800 to 1000 pages. For all the bulking up the actual rules have changed fairly little, the bulk is mostly added fluff (how to game tips and rule explainations). With the new complete series (Champions complete available now, and Fantasy Hero complete is being considered) they are returning to a much smaller book of 240 pages. There were major changes with 4th edition and 6th edition, which has split the fan base some (small group for 1-3, and I'd guess a fairly even split for 4/5th fans and 6th fans).

The trick with HERO is all of the work is up front. You will spend a lot of time making a character, and the GM may spend a lot of time building the world, critters, spells etc.

In actual play though things are pretty smooth. Almost everything you need is right on the character sheet and the basic actions are quite simple, based on a 3d6 roll and in some cases like combat matching abilities, offensive value vs defensive value to determine the success roll. If you want a game that supports creating stuff with rules, HERO has little competition.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Toadmaster

[1d8+DB]

For good examples of how you can design creatures and races using BRP see "Build A Better Monster," "Tales From the Cryptozoo," and "Chronicles of A Future Earth" threads.

Edited January 19, 2013 by 1d8+DB