Vampires that don't suck--hopefully

[Dredj]

I was thinking for some time about creating a vampire game that really is horrifying--but fun to play. Let's face it, most vampire games just aren't scary. I mean, how scary is some effeminate, homoerotic, emo--thoroughly Ann Rice inspired--vampire who's worried about becoming a monster, anyway? Is that even fun to play?

I guess that could be scary and fun for some people, but I think it's pretty lame all around.

And the others are just too fantastical. Or they're set in a gothic nightmare world, etc. Or, at least that's what it seems to someone who's not going to spend all his money looking at all that's out there, vampire-wise.

However, I want to take the whole "personal horror" to a new--or at least different level. What I propose is that the game is played something like a tasteless joke where the players are asked to play their characters in ways that are thoroughly immoral and heinous in order to get the blood the characters' need. But it's got to be a lot of fun--and frightening if the gameplay were to be written out. But it like a tasteless joke could also work against creating a horror atmoshphere. But, then again, many horror movies have been made like that.

This post is inspired by by a post from the Combat Round thread, and my subsequent rant:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sladethesniper View Post

The problem with RPG's is that the "baseline" for "most" characters tends to be a highly trained, well armed, sociopath...think about it...there are a lot of games where characters are basically racially motivated mass murderers that specialize in home invasion...

Funny thing is that I was debating on creating a vampire rpg based on the characters acting along those lines (no emos). However, I believe that it could be unplayable. But, then again, somebody did create a game about sociopathic assassins that also could specialize in home invasion and theft of their victims:

AssassinX - The 24hour RPG of Bloody Murder

I wonder how many people do play it for a one shot--or even a campaign. And there's a game called Dog Town where the PCs are all criminals:

Dog Town: Core Rules

I don't care what White Wolf publishing or Ann Rice says, vampires are sociopathic mass murderers who specialize in home invasion! At least if you want your vampires to be scary. And I've long thought that the way most PCs are played in rpgs, they would make great vampires in a modern day setting. After all, you see vampires in modern day movies wearing nice modern day clothes, or even living in a modern day house...where do they get the money from?

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I'm thinking about a game that would have the characters acting like the typical adventuring characters of any rpg. But have them be vampires who slaughter and steal from and do battle with people in a modern setting (or a "real world" historical setting). And they must do it in a way that mortal society doesn't find out about them. Mostly using guile, but if you want to play a character that just charges right in, you can do that, too. It seems like this game would be best for one-shots.

This is just something that's been bouncing around in my head for awhile, and I'd like to know if I'm onto some kind of good idea (or if this is a bad idea) and if there are any good suggestions for it? You can probably tell by this post that my ideas are a bit disjointed at this point about it.

I've watched two recent vampire movies that inspired me:

Amazon.com: 30 Days of Night: Josh Hartnett,Craig Hall,Melissa George: Movies & TV

Amazon.com: Mrs. Amworth: Magenta Brooks,Christy Sullivan,Daniel Ross,Jim Nalitz,Ben Murrie,Frank Sciurba: Movies & TV

And one oldie, but goodie: Amazon.com: The Norliss Tapes: Roy Thinnes,Don Porter,Angie Dickinson,Claude Akins,Michele Carey,Vonetta McGee,Hurd Hatfield,Bryan O'Byrne,Ed Gilbert,Robert Mandan,Jane Dulo,Bob Schott,George DiCenzo,Patrick M. Wright,Nick Dimitri,Stanley Adams,Dan C

A couple of stories I've recently read that inspired me:

http://www.horrormasters.com/Text/a0223.pdf This is the short story that the movie Mrs. Amworth is based on but the movie is very different in many ways than this story.

And: http://www.horrormasters.com/Text/a0322.pdf

As well as:The Vampyre, by John Polidori

I'm inspired by this story telling game: shock: social science fiction

But I want it to be a regular tabletop game using the BRP system.

I suspect that if done right the game could be really good at using ethical issues as a theme.

Anyway, I'm going to post this and hopefully your posts will help me hammer out what I really want to accomplish with this.

[Tywyll]

Eh... I fail to see how reveling in one's sociopathy = horror or scary.

The 'fear' in the Personal Horror style of game comes from seeing what lengths you'll go to and how far you'll fall when you do. That requires characters who care about what they are losing (or 'emo' I suppose by your definition).

Whether vampires are sociopaths depends on how their mythology is defined. Do they need to kill everytime they feed? Do they create a new vampire every time they eat? Etc, etc.

What you seem to be describing sounds like the Splatterpunk game, something like Nightlife, though even that has a humanity system (though one of the better one's I've seen). Interestingly, it's a percent system so could easily be ported/adjusted to BRP.

[fmitchell]

Eh... I fail to see how reveling in one's sociopathy = horror or scary.

The 'fear' in the Personal Horror style of game comes from seeing what lengths you'll go to and how far you'll fall when you do. That requires characters who care about what they are losing (or 'emo' I suppose by your definition).

I'd be more tempted to turn it around: the PCs are humans battling soulless vampires, and they are the ones turning into sociopaths, at least as far as the cops and society at large is concerned. (Perhaps there's no objective evidence to tell a vampire corpse from a human corpse, so anyone who didn't see the creature "alive" would think its killers were delusional.) Your references take that tack, as far as I can tell.

Or, if you must have vampire PCs, make them no stronger/faster/more magical than normals ... and then send a squad of Slayers after them.

[soltakss]

I was thinking for some time about creating a vampire game that really is horrifying--but fun to play. Let's face it, most vampire games just aren't scary. I mean, how scary is some effeminate, homoerotic, emo--thoroughly Ann Rice inspired--vampire who's worried about becoming a monster, anyway? Is that even fun to play?

Agreed 100%. If I became a vampire, I wouldn't be the "oh no, what shall I do? How can I stop hurting people?" kind of vampire, oh no, I'd be the ravening monster striding through the ages and creating a horde of followers kind of vampire. Of course, I'd be staked through the heart pretty quickly.

And the others are just too fantastical. Or they're set in a gothic nightmare world, etc. Or, at least that's what it seems to someone who's not going to spend all his money looking at all that's out there, vampire-wise.

Vampires are gothic, that's pretty much a fact, even modern day ones have massive gothic hangovers.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I'm thinking about a game that would have the characters acting like the typical adventuring characters of any rpg. But have them be vampires who slaughter and steal from and do battle with people in a modern setting (or a "real world" historical setting). And they must do it in a way that mortal society doesn't find out about them. Mostly using guile, but if you want to play a character that just charges right in, you can do that, too. It seems like this game would be best for one-shots.

Sounds good to me. Any vampire character I played would also have a couple of guns, just to even things out a bit.He would also have some personally loyal henchmen who would protect him form those nasty little vampire hunters who come around during the daytime. He would move between the near-Arctic North and the near-Antarctic South, making sure he stayed awake as long as he could.

I've watched two recent vampire movies that inspired me:

Amazon.com: 30 Days of Night: Josh Hartnett,Craig Hall,Melissa George: Movies & TV

Amazon.com: Mrs. Amworth: Magenta Brooks,Christy Sullivan,Daniel Ross,Jim Nalitz,Ben Murrie,Frank Sciurba: Movies & TV

And one oldie, but goodie: Amazon.com: The Norliss Tapes: Roy Thinnes,Don Porter,Angie Dickinson,Claude Akins,Michele Carey,Vonetta McGee,Hurd Hatfield,Bryan O'Byrne,Ed Gilbert,Robert Mandan,Jane Dulo,Bob Schott,George DiCenzo,Patrick M. Wright,Nick Dimitri,Stanley Adams,Dan C

30 Days of Night was OK, but didn't really grab me that much.

If you want some good modernp-day vampire films with a lot of atmoshere then watch Innocent Blood, Lost Boys and Near Dark. Even John Carpenter's Vampires is pretty good from a vampire-hunting point of view.

I suspect that if done right the game could be really good at using ethical issues as a theme.

It could, but where's the fun in that?

Playing vampire hunters and having to kill a small vampire child is an ethical dilemma that works across many types of game. Choosing between genocide and letting monsters live is another.

But, I prefer to leave ethical issues out of games as they've always made my gaming groups uncomfortable in the past and we like our games to be fun.

Back to vampires. I have thought for a long time there are 2 kinds of vampires - nobles and thugs. The nobles are the aristocratic ones that have followers, artistic tastes, wear capes and live in expensive coffins. Thugs are the ones who would rip you apart just because they can, who make their friends immortal and live for the moment. Thugs die quickly, nobles live for centuries.

[soltakss]

Oh, and if you are using BRP/RQ rules for vampuires then you'll need to add to them quite a bit.

They need to have the "cannot enter a house unless invited" restriction, need a reason to have to drink blood, need more psychic/magical abilities, can't move around in sunlight/daytime, need to be damaged by sunlight and so on.

Also, vampires should become stronger/more powerful the older they get and the more blood they drink.

[Dredj]

Thanks for the replies. This was just some brainstorming I was doing. Doesn't look like it will get off the ground. It seems vampires have been done to death, anyway. I just wanted to make them anti-romantic, and something that wouldn't come across as just another D20 type class.

As far as reveling in one's sociopathy, that is what all the groups I've played with and seen playing have done. (Btw, the groups I've played with are far from being sociopaths--but I chose not to play with a group that actually might have been). It's kind of that mindset that I'm catering to. (D&D and AD&D always seemed like they were about "might equals right" to me, anyway). It's the same reason people play Grand Theft Auto video games; it's a release of sorts. However, looking at the BRP line, excluding CoC, it seems that the game makers for this system cater heavily to the heroic fantasy role playing crowd. Actually, CoC is kind of heroic, now that I think of it.

As far as vampire movies go, I forgot about the Lost Boys. Don't know how, I had to have seen it about a thousand times over the years. I didn't think 30 Days of Night was all that great, either. It's more of the types of vampires I'm going for. I picked the movies I did because they are really fresh in my head.

When I'm talking about Gothic settings, I'm talking about Ravenloft and things like that. Places were everyone expects to encounter a vampire any given day--or night. I would like my setting to be more in the "real" world, where most people don't believe in vampires. And the vampires prefer to keep it that way.

Anyway, like I said, this was just stuff bumping around in my head for awhile, and wanted to know what other people's take on it was.

As far as vampires having weaknesses dealing with sunlight and such, I was debating on leaving it up to the people who play the game as to what weaknesses the vampires have. But FUDGE Vampires beat me to that:

RPGNow.com - ComStar Games - Fudge Horror: Vampires

The only stipulation I would've made was to make the vampires weak enough that any given healthy, adult mortal could be a major threat to them.

[frogspawner]

D&D and AD&D always seemed like they were about "might equals right" to me, anyway... However, looking at the BRP line... it seems that the game makers for this system cater heavily to the heroic fantasy role playing crowd.

Absolutely. This difference in attitude is fundamental to the systems and is clear from the way they handle experience and, particularly, hit points.

As I often say when players complain about how few HPs they get: Do you want to be a Bully or Hero?

[threedeesix]

Oh, and if you are using BRP/RQ rules for vampuires then you'll need to add to them quite a bit.

They need to have the "cannot enter a house unless invited" restriction, need a reason to have to drink blood, need more psychic/magical abilities, can't move around in sunlight/daytime, need to be damaged by sunlight and so on.

Those are all in the new BRP vampire write-up.

Rodney Leary

[soltakss]

Thanks for the replies. This was just some brainstorming I was doing. Doesn't look like it will get off the ground. It seems vampires have been done to death, anyway. I just wanted to make them anti-romantic, and something that wouldn't come across as just another D20 type class.

How can vampires be done to death? They are probably the best NPC villain type and can be used in any setting without a problem.

But, brainstorming is always good.

As far as reveling in one's sociopathy, that is what all the groups I've played with and seen playing have done. (Btw, the groups I've played with are far from being sociopaths--but I chose not to play with a group that actually might have been). It's kind of that mindset that I'm catering to. (D&D and AD&D always seemed like they were about "might equals right" to me, anyway). It's the same reason people play Grand Theft Auto video games; it's a release of sorts. However, looking at the BRP line, excluding CoC, it seems that the game makers for this system cater heavily to the heroic fantasy role playing crowd. Actually, CoC is kind of heroic, now that I think of it.

If CoC were a monster-hunting game then I'd enjoy it a lot more than the current mythos/sanity-crushing game.

As far as vampire movies go, I forgot about the Lost Boys. Don't know how, I had to have seen it about a thousand times over the years. I didn't think 30 Days of Night was all that great, either. It's more of the types of vampires I'm going for. I picked the movies I did because they are really fresh in my head.

Sure. There are lots of vampire films that fade away into the background. Even films such as Blade are OK, they have a vampire mythos but just make them into CGI supermen which is a bit tiring after a while.

When I'm talking about Gothic settings, I'm talking about Ravenloft and things like that. Places were everyone expects to encounter a vampire any given day--or night. I would like my setting to be more in the "real" world, where most people don't believe in vampires. And the vampires prefer to keep it that way.

I've never heard of Ravenloft and having looked it up on google it doesn't sound particularly good. The best book I've read about vampires ruling the world is The Empire of Fear by Brian Stableford which has a vampire ruling class being brought down by a hero. It's gothic in places but is very normal in others.

Anyway, like I said, this was just stuff bumping around in my head for awhile, and wanted to know what other people's take on it was.

One of the things I 'll never stop talking about/discussing is vampires, so I think it's a great topic.

The only stipulation I would've made was to make the vampires weak enough that any given healthy, adult mortal could be a major threat to them.

Weak vampires that a normal healthy mortal could take? No way. Vampires should be stronger than mortals, quicker than mortals and should not consider a normal mortal a threat, except in daytime.

Most vampire films/stories/myths have vampires as being physically impressive with particular weaknesses. Heroes traditionally kill vampires by exploiting those weaknesses or by ganging up on them.

I'm all for strong vampires. The film Monster Club has some nice scenes, particularly the one where Dracula wades through a number of attacking police with consumate ease.

Vampires suffering blood-starvation might be weak, depending on their age.

[soltakss]

Oh, and if you are using BRP/RQ rules for vampires then you'll need to add to them quite a bit.

They need to have the "cannot enter a house unless invited" restriction, need a reason to have to drink blood, need more psychic/magical abilities, can't move around in sunlight/daytime, need to be damaged by sunlight and so on.

Also, vampires should become stronger/more powerful the older they get and the more blood they drink.

I'd give Vampires a VAM Characteristic that starts at 3D6 and increases with age (maybe 1 per 100 years) and the number of victims the vampire drinks blood (maybe 1 per 100 victims).

What would VAM do? It would add to the Vampires Strength roll, perhaps even add to the Vampire's STR or CON. Vampires would have to roll their VAMx5% (Vampire Roll) to do Vampiric things such as changing form. Vampires can last their VAM in days without feeding, but must succeed in a Vampire Roll or lose their VAM in Fatigue Points.

That makes ancient vampires very powerful as they would have a very high VAM score.

[Tywyll]

I'd give Vampires a VAM Characteristic that starts at 3D6 and increases with age (maybe 1 per 100 years) and the number of victims the vampire drinks blood (maybe 1 per 100 victims).

What would VAM do? It would add to the Vampires Strength roll, perhaps even add to the Vampire's STR or CON. Vampires would have to roll their VAMx5% (Vampire Roll) to do Vampiric things such as changing form. Vampires can last their VAM in days without feeding, but must succeed in a Vampire Roll or lose their VAM in Fatigue Points.

That makes ancient vampires very powerful as they would have a very high VAM score.

VAM (or whatever you call it) shouldn't be random. It should start at X depending on whatever it represents (the power of the sire? the evil of the mortal being embraced? every vampire being equal when first created?) then rise according to whatever govern's such things.

It could be more like an Allegiance score than an attribute, with break points (every 10, every 20?) the vampire gets 'stuff'.

That's how I'd handle it.

[Dredj]

Weak vampires that a normal healthy mortal could take? No way. Vampires should be stronger than mortals, quicker than mortals and should not consider a normal mortal a threat, except in daytime.

Most vampire films/stories/myths have vampires as being physically impressive with particular weaknesses. Heroes traditionally kill vampires by exploiting those weaknesses or by ganging up on them.

I'm all for strong vampires. The film Monster Club has some nice scenes, particularly the one where Dracula wades through a number of attacking police with consumate ease.

Vampires suffering blood-starvation might be weak, depending on their age.

My idea of "weak" vampires is so that they don't become CGI-style supermen, like you mentioned. When I mentioned them in my brainstorming session, I was thinking of vampires before Dracula was written. They could have beyond normal human strength; some could even walk around in the daylight with their vampiric powers coming out at nighttime. But, above all else, they had to keep their true natures hidden from the mortals around them. That could lead to some real role-playing, possibly. The vampire would still be formidable, but someone that's quite skilled in martial arts could still put a serious whupping on the vampire (unless, of course, the vampire is also a martial artist). And you've mentioned the fact that most vampire stories are resolved when people gang up and exploit the vampire's weakness.

Dracula had some formiddable powers, but he was quite sloppy in keeping his vampiric nature hidden. In fact, It seemed to me he over-relied on his powers. Probably due to the fact that the people living around his castle in Transylvania were so cowed by him, they never gave him a real threat. Thus, he never had to use much in the way of subterfuge. At least that's what I got from reading Dracula, years ago. But I would also give rules so that vampires could also have major advantages over mortals. Some of my brainstorming revolved around the idea that some groups of players would just like to kick ass (having crappy jobs, etc., in their real lives) even if only for a one-shot game, here and there. Basically, it could be used as a release for some groups. Of course, the super powered vampires could also run up against very formidable monster foes for campaign play.

If this supplement/game should ever come to fruition, I would allow the GM to decide on what weaknesses a vampire has in the game.

Mostly,however, I was thinking of something more cerebral and took real planning from the players--almost like a spy game where the PCs would have to determine the weaknesses of their intended victims while pretending to be one of the crowd--with not much amiss--in order to get away with feasting on mortal blood.

I get the impression that what I'm thinking would make a better card/strategy game than rpg. But I would like to read more of other peoples' take on this.

[Tywyll]

My idea of "weak" vampires is so that they don't become CGI-style supermen, like you mentioned. When I mentioned them in my brainstorming session, I was thinking of vampires before Dracula was written. They could have beyond normal human strength; some could even walk around in the daylight with their vampiric powers coming out at nighttime. But, above all else, they had to keep their true natures hidden from the mortals around them. That could lead to some real role-playing, possibly. The vampire would still be formidable, but someone that's quite skilled in martial arts could still put a serious whupping on the vampire (unless, of course, the vampire is also a martial artist). And you've mentioned the fact that most vampire stories are resolved when people gang up and exploit the vampire's weakness.

Dracula had some formiddable powers, but he was quite sloppy in keeping his vampiric nature hidden. In fact, It seemed to me he over-relied on his powers. Probably due to the fact that the people living around his castle in Transylvania were so cowed by him, they never gave him a real threat. Thus, he never had to use much in the way of subterfuge. At least that's what I got from reading Dracula, years ago. But I would also give rules so that vampires could also have major advantages over mortals. Some of my brainstorming revolved around the idea that some groups of players would just like to kick ass (having crappy jobs, etc., in their real lives) even if only for a one-shot game, here and there. Basically, it could be used as a release for some groups. Of course, the super powered vampires could also run up against very formidable monster foes for campaign play.

If this supplement/game should ever come to fruition, I would allow the GM to decide on what weaknesses a vampire has in the game.

Mostly,however, I was thinking of something more cerebral and took real planning from the players--almost like a spy game where the PCs would have to determine the weaknesses of their intended victims while pretending to be one of the crowd--with not much amiss--in order to get away with feasting on mortal blood.

I get the impression that what I'm thinking would make a better card/strategy game than rpg. But I would like to read more of other peoples' take on this.

Depending on your mythos, there is no reason why each vampire couldn't have different weaknesses (Night's Edge, for cyberpunk 2020 took a similar approach). Each vampire's weakness might be unique to them, or perhaps to their line, depending on where vampires came from. So somebody might get all obsessive about counting grain, while another dies from a stake in the heart.

Also, depending on the time frame (is it modern day?) then the 'power' of the vampire can be very relative. Vampires might be more than a match for any human... in melee. However, guns can be a great equalizer. Perhaps while a bullet won't kill them, collecting too many will slow them down enough to be dealt with. So you lose the superhuman effect, and force the characters to be more methodical and thoughtful about it. Perhaps really ancient ones get to the point where this is not an issue, but younger ones can be stopped by a machine pistol on full auto... or a shotgun.

That forces players to be much more thoughtful, and not just rampage around.

[Dredj]

Depending on your mythos, there is no reason why each vampire couldn't have different weaknesses (Night's Edge, for cyberpunk 2020 took a similar approach). Each vampire's weakness might be unique to them, or perhaps to their line, depending on where vampires came from. So somebody might get all obsessive about counting grain, while another dies from a stake in the heart.

Also, depending on the time frame (is it modern day?) then the 'power' of the vampire can be very relative. Vampires might be more than a match for any human... in melee. However, guns can be a great equalizer. Perhaps while a bullet won't kill them, collecting too many will slow them down enough to be dealt with. So you lose the superhuman effect, and force the characters to be more methodical and thoughtful about it. Perhaps really ancient ones get to the point where this is not an issue, but younger ones can be stopped by a machine pistol on full auto... or a shotgun.

That forces players to be much more thoughtful, and not just rampage around.

Those are some excellent points you made. I like your idea of giving each vampire a different weakness.

I was also thinking, as far as how vampires could relate to others of their kind, that they might not like others of their kind too much. This could lead to some very interesting Machiavellian-style role playing. It might be easier to use Mythic Game Master Emulator Mythic Game Master Emulator

for this than it would be to use a real GM. Since it would allow for the players to create the story as they go along. A good map of a city or town might be useful, though.

Here's what I'm thinking: Some sessions of gaming could have the vampires converge on a town or whatever for food. But one is going to be the top vampire that gets the whole food supply. Too many vampires are going to let the population know that there are vampires about, so the vampires are going to try and pin the blame on one another, while ingratiating themselves into human society. And not letting the mortals know that they know much about vampires, or are ones themselves.

Another idea that goes along with this would be that vampires can be created accidentally, but it's rare--otherwise the world would be overpopulated by vampires. However, the originating vampire is having really crappy die rolls:) thus allowing all the players to be vampires. And the characters can either band together and defeat the originating vampire before he/she kills them all, or they can all try and kill off each other with the originating vampire as a wild card. Also, if the vampires are allowed to create minions:humans that drink vampire blood and fall under the control of the vampire who's blood they drank--or simply gain the powers of the vampire and give fealty to the vampire they get the blood from. That might make for some interesting battles and other interactions.

I realise these may be best served for single gaming sessions, or for short campaigns. Maybe for longer campaigns, they can fight off wily vampires who invade their territory and all the vampires can have different weaknesses.

[Dredj]

If CoC were a monster-hunting game then I'd enjoy it a lot more than the current mythos/sanity-crushing game.

I think the sanity thing is a bit overdone in the game. It seems like most of the time the investigators know they're hunting monsters. Why would they lose so much of their sanity encountering something they kind of know they are going to run into in the first place? And, besides, how scary can a book really be (losing SAN from reading a book)?

[Triff]

One of my players lost 57 points of SAN last game session from watching a Great Old One. He's clearly going downhill towards the zero mark, but his insanities makes him more and more into a crazy opus dei monk (sort of cultist) battling devils for the lord, that way he stays playable.

(and cthulhu rising IS somewhat of a monster-hunting game. Combat armor and tactical assault rifles with grenade launchers help a lot!)

SGL.

[Dredj]

(and cthulhu rising IS somewhat of a monster-hunting game. Combat armor and tactical assault rifles with grenade launchers help a lot!)

SGL.

Is Cthulhu Rising a BRP game, or easily converted to one?

[Dredj]

I realized that Cthulhu Rising is a monograph I own:o. I was thinking about another game:DriveThruRPG.com - Mongoose - Cthulhutech Main Rulebook

[Ars Mysteriorum]

Back on the idea of vampires that don't suck, I fully agree with Steve Darlington's ideas of vampires from Night's Dark Masters for WFRP2e.

Vampires have the classic weakness and strengths, but there's no telling which ones they have without proper research. This casts vampires in the role of a master villain. They're overwhelmingly powerful and inhuman (though just human enough to be creepy).

By rolling on random tables, certain weaknesses are chosen. It's then up to the players to discover the weaknesses (perhaps by raiding the tomb of an ancient vampire hunter who nearly bested the vampire in the past and kept a journal which contains the weaknesses of said vampire), finding a workable way to exploit them, all the while fighting off the vampire's minions every step of the way.

It makes for one hell of a dramatic endgame once the vampire finally reveals itself to the players.

[Dredj]

Back on the idea of vampires that don't suck, I fully agree with Steve Darlington's ideas of vampires from Night's Dark Masters for WFRP2e.

Vampires have the classic weakness and strengths, but there's no telling which ones they have without proper research. This casts vampires in the role of a master villain. They're overwhelmingly powerful and inhuman (though just human enough to be creepy).

By rolling on random tables, certain weaknesses are chosen. It's then up to the players to discover the weaknesses (perhaps by raiding the tomb of an ancient vampire hunter who nearly bested the vampire in the past and kept a journal which contains the weaknesses of said vampire), finding a workable way to exploit them, all the while fighting off the vampire's minions every step of the way.

It makes for one hell of a dramatic endgame once the vampire finally reveals itself to the players.

That sounds like a good book. Sometime when I have some extra money I'll have to buy it.

Amazon.com: Night's Dark Masters: A Guide to Vampires (Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay): Green Ronin: Books

I was thinking of the same thing with the tables. It's cool that someone already did that. It would definitely keep the players on their toes, and could make for a good investigative game.

[TRose]

Here my problem with Vampires s I seen in almost all Movies and games . They act like low grade morons.

For example take the vampires choice of victims . If I was a Vampire I would avoid having High class beautiful Noble women for dinner , as people tend to care about them. Instead I would prey on the homeless, runaways, immigrants , criminals and others society not going to pay much attention to if they go missing. If you start preying on criminals the local authorities might even turn a blind eye on your activities after they find out you are in town.

And as far as Vampire power. The fearsome thing about a Vampire should not just be its strength but the fact it has had a long time to practice survival skills. 200 years of studying magic, fencing , and other combat skills and you will get pretty good.

And of course recruiting followers. Since I have the ability to make people immortals, with a little luck and work I can recruit some first class muscle to help me with my needs. Just make sure they are the type to keep a low profile too.

[Dredj]

Here my problem with Vampires s I seen in almost all Movies and games . They act like low grade morons.

For example take the vampires choice of victims . If I was a Vampire I would avoid having High class beautiful Noble women for dinner , as people tend to care about them. Instead I would prey on the homeless, runaways, immigrants , criminals and others society not going to pay much attention to if they go missing. If you start preying on criminals the local authorities might even turn a blind eye on your activities after they find out you are in town.

And as far as Vampire power. The fearsome thing about a Vampire should not just be its strength but the fact it has had a long time to practice survival skills. 200 years of studying magic, fencing , and other combat skills and you will get pretty good.

And of course recruiting followers. Since I have the ability to make people immortals, with a little luck and work I can recruit some first class muscle to help me with my needs. Just make sure they are the type to keep a low profile too.

Vampire dojos. I like that idea you've inspired.

I thought the reason that vampires went for high class people is that it was a test of their skills. And higher class people tend to be prettier to look at and have around, eternally, than some bum the vampire accidentally turned. Plus, it might be an act of suicide on their part--since vampires seem to not be able to kill themselves. Therefore, by turning someone people care about, those people will be hunting the vampire down.

[Tywyll]

Vampire dojos. I like that idea you've inspired.

I thought the reason that vampires went for high class people is that it was a test of their skills. And higher class people tend to be prettier to look at and have around, eternally, than some bum the vampire accidentally turned. Plus, it might be an act of suicide on their part--since vampires seem to not be able to kill themselves. Therefore, by turning someone people care about, those people will be hunting the vampire down.

How often do you choose to eat garbage when you have the option to eat stake?

Seriously, who's eat a Krystal burger (an old, wet, cold one at that) when they have the option of eating a filet mignon, cooked just the way you like?

There is nothing suicidal or stupid about it, its about fulfilling desires. Sure, there will be vampires who will intentionally avoid flagging the authorities, but again it depends on the mythos: does a vampire have to kill to eat? This is the stupidest element of modern vampire myths and exists almost exclusively in the movies... even Dracula could keep coming back to the same target over and over.

[TRose]

Well if you want something nice to look at you can go for a runaway or an immigrant. not hard to find some that are pretty there.

Or better yet a high class call girl. They tend to be pretty. often highly intelligent , and many already have the perfect personality to be a Vampire. and they can even keep their old hours.

Or be patient and wait for some thing nice to fall into your hand. For example there been a change in the power struggle and a certain Noble family is in disgrace. you grab the families pretty daughter befor executioner gets to take off her head and train her to be patient about her vengeance.

[soltakss]

You are going to be a vampire for a long time so you want someone to be a good and interesting companion forn that time. If you come from a noble background then you want to have an attractive, intelligent cultured companion, not some uncultured yobbo or some tramp. Similarly, if you're a thug you'll want similar types around you.